Electric vehicles
#1
Electric vehicles
Has anyone managed to ride the electric Metrocity GNE has on trial at the moment? I wondered what your thoughts of it were.

I haven't been on it myself, but having watched a few videos of it on YouTube it doesn't seem like the most peaceful sounding electric bus ever, or at least not when accelerating over 30mph.


London's new Caetano e.City's on the other hand sound very peaceful. Granted being in London it's probably trundling along gently & not having to accelerate onto the Tyne Bridge from a standing start to 40/50mph. But still, listen to this:

#2
RE: Electric vehicles
(24 Jul 2020, 9:59 am)ne14ne1 Wrote: Has anyone managed to ride the electric Metrocity GNE has on trial at the moment? I wondered what your thoughts of it were.

I haven't been on it myself, but having watched a few videos of it on YouTube it doesn't seem like the most peaceful sounding electric bus ever, or at least not when accelerating over 30mph.



The Metrocity might have a rougher engine noise but from those 2 videos I'd take it any day over the Caetano. The amount of rattles on there for a vehicle less than 6 month old is shocking. Wouldn't want to know what they're going to be like in a few year time. Engine noise you can just zone out most the time.

#3
RE: Electric vehicles
(24 Jul 2020, 11:18 am)Storx Wrote: The Metrocity might have a rougher engine noise but from those 2 videos I'd take it any day over the Caetano. The amount of rattles on there for a vehicle less than 6 month old is shocking. Wouldn't want to know what they're going to be like in a few year time. Engine noise you can just zone out most the time.

The Caetano is said to be very good, however, and Abellio London is planning on ordering the Double Deck variant of it, with regards to the build quality I imagine it will get better over time. Look how much time Optare have needed to get it right Smile
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#4
RE: Electric vehicles
It’s truly Awful I was with Northeasttransport when he recorded and it’s awful

#5
RE: Electric vehicles
(24 Jul 2020, 12:39 pm)ThomasBooth123 Wrote: It’s truly Awful I was with Northeasttransport when he recorded and it’s awful

Even as someone who loves the whine of an electric motor (even over the sound of a diesel, which I prefer over petrol), that sounds bloody awful! 

I remember the E200EV sounding particularly nice, same with the Yutong they had on the X66.

#6
Ne14ne1
(24 Jul 2020, 5:56 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Even as someone who loves the whine of an electric motor (even over the sound of a diesel, which I prefer over petrol), that sounds bloody awful! 

I remember the E200EV sounding particularly nice, same with the Yutong they had on the X66.

I love the electric motor whine on electric or hybrid vehicles but it sounds like there might be other stuff going on with that Metrocity, I don’t know though, I’m no mechanic. 

I’d take an electric motor whine over the sound of a diesel any day.

#7
RE: Ne14ne1
(24 Jul 2020, 6:15 pm)ne14ne1 Wrote: I love the electric motor whine on electric or hybrid vehicles but it sounds like there might be other stuff going on with that Metrocity, I don’t know though, I’m no mechanic. 

I’d take an electric motor whine over the sound of a diesel any day.

From the video, it sounds like a dodgy bearing to me, although it could just be that they're using a crap motor!

My personal favourite is the Coaster hybrids, I love hearing the electric motor then the engine kicking in once it's on the move, it's the best of both worlds. Plus, you just can't beat the instant torque of electric!

#8
RE: Ne14ne1
(24 Jul 2020, 6:29 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: From the video, it sounds like a dodgy bearing to me, although it could just be that they're using a crap motor!

My personal favourite is the Coaster hybrids, I love hearing the electric motor then the engine kicking in once it's on the move, it's the best of both worlds. Plus, you just can't beat the instant torque of electric!

The Euro6 models are class, if you ever go down to London, be sure to ride on one. I think when the electric motor kicks in, it has a combined output of 410HP, instant take off!
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#9
Ne14ne1
(25 Jul 2020, 12:31 am)Big O Wrote: The Euro6 models are class, if you ever go down to London, be sure to ride on one. I think when the electric motor kicks in, it has a combined output of 410HP, instant take off!

Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

#10
RE: Ne14ne1
(25 Jul 2020, 8:16 am)ne14ne1 Wrote: Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

Defo mate, its a shame the Euro5 models weren't so good, because I'm sure they were put off by them, as they were with the demonstrator B5TLs they had too. The Euro6 models are some of the best buses for both passenger and driver. They feel as if they float along the road. If GNE purchased them for a route like the 56 for example, they'd soon reap the benefits. They're very fuel-efficient and super reliable. Having said that I found an old document that might be of interest to some viewers. It shares a brief comparison between the E400H and B5LH. 

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/presenta...xpress.pdf
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#11
Ne14ne1
(25 Jul 2020, 11:51 pm)Big O Wrote: Defo mate, its a shame the Euro5 models weren't so good, because I'm sure they were put off by them, as they were with the demonstrator B5TLs they had too. The Euro6 models are some of the best buses for both passenger and driver. They feel as if they float along the road. If GNE purchased them for a route like the 56 for example, they'd soon reap the benefits. They're very fuel-efficient and super reliable. Having said that I found an old document that might be of interest to some viewers. It shares a brief comparison between the E400H and B5LH. 

http://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/presenta...xpress.pdf

Cheers, I’ll have a read of that later.
I agree, it would be nice to have some new hybrids in the fleet, and a start-stop local service like the 56 or 21 would be ideal. The improvement to passenger experience alone would be great, not having the noisy diesel growling the whole time, especially when the bus is idling or moving at lower speeds. 
I get they promote their Euro6 diesels as clean and green, but they’re still giving off some emissions. At least with modern hybrids there’ll be regular periods where they are emitting zero pollutants in our towns & cities, & reducing noise pullution too. 
All about the upfront investment though I suppose.
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#12
RE: Ne14ne1
(26 Jul 2020, 8:51 am)ne14ne1 Wrote: Cheers, I’ll have a read of that later.
I agree, it would be nice to have some new hybrids in the fleet, and a start-stop local service like the 56 or 21 would be ideal. The improvement to passenger experience alone would be great, not having the noisy diesel growling the whole time, especially when the bus is idling or moving at lower speeds. 
I get they promote their Euro6 diesels as clean and green, but they’re still giving off some emissions. At least with modern hybrids there’ll be regular periods where they are emitting zero pollutants in our towns & cities, & reducing noise pullution too. 
All about the upfront investment though I suppose.

I do think Hybrids should still have a big part to play in the future of all transport, we're still a while away for BEV or Hydrogen vehicles being able to do long routes that we have up here. It's a shame that there's not more funding to buy none BEV vehicles so they could upgrade the likes of the 56 to hybrids.
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#13
RE: Ne14ne1
(25 Jul 2020, 8:16 am)ne14ne1 Wrote: Yeah I was going to say the Gemini 3 hybrids in London are much better. They seem much smoother and seem to last purely on battery way longer than our Gemini 2 hybrids.
Our Coaster hybrids seem to only manage, what, maybe 10mph on battery before it feels there’s a complete lose of acceleration while the diesel starts up & the bus regains momentum. Don’t know if it’s a horrible gearbox but the transition from electric to diesel isn’t exactly seamless. 

When I used to commute on the 308 hybrids I’d cringe as they pulled out of the Corner House bus stop into busy fairly quick moving traffic & it felt like we lost all acceleration when the electric motor handed over to the Diesel engine.

How tech has developed since.

Don't they have an automated manual gearbox rather than proper automatic, hence the 'lurch' on the switch to diesel, and on gear changes.

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#14
RE: Ne14ne1
(26 Jul 2020, 1:37 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Don't they have an automated manual gearbox rather than proper automatic, hence the 'lurch' on the switch to diesel, and on gear changes.

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Indeed, the 12 Speed I-Shift Gearbox, it's so much better on the Euro6 model however, there is no real lurch or throttle delay. It can run to about 20mph with the electric motor and then the engine kicks in.  Even passengers like the bus, which I've never seen before.

Does the 21 run on the A1 at all? Because if not it would be a perfect route, although the Euro6 model can run on dual carriageways happily, I think B5LH is better suited to routes that do not use a great proportion of dual carriageway work.

#15
RE: Ne14ne1
(26 Jul 2020, 1:49 pm)Big O Wrote: Indeed, the 12 Speed I-Shift Gearbox, it's so much better on the Euro6 model however, there is no real lurch or throttle delay. It can run to about 20mph with the electric motor and then the engine kicks in.  Even passengers like the bus, which I've never seen before.

Does the 21 run on the A1 at all? Because if not it would be a perfect route, although the Euro6 model can run on dual carriageways happily, I think B5LH is better suited to routes that do not use a great proportion of dual carriageway work.
I thought as much, although to be fair I quite like the feeling of the gearbox

The only bit of the 21 that is dual carriageway is the bit between Chester le Street and Pity Me, and it's only a couple miles.

I don't think we'll see a return of Hybrids on the Angel though, if they're keeping them for the long term, the increased upkeep once warranty expires may wipe out the cost savings of fuel.

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