New Housing Estates and Other Developments

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I was reading the Skyscraper City forum this morning and noticed that a planning application to build 185 new homes in High Spen had recently been approved by Gateshead Council.

Post Link:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/g...-170025805

Link to Planning Application:
https://public.gateshead.gov.uk/online-a...USDHKMZO00&activeTab=summary

The map shows that the houses are to be built near Collingdon Road - just north of the Bute Arms and near to High Spen Bus Stand.

185 homes means probably 500 or more residents are going to be moving to the area. Collingdon Road is currently served by the 10A and R6 - the X47 disappears up the bank after the Bute Arms.

The purpose of this thread, I guess, is to discuss new building developments and their proximity to public transport links. 

Is the current level of service enough or will High Spen merit a X47A in the near future?
(03 Oct 2020, 2:19 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: I was reading the Skyscraper City forum this morning and noticed that a planning application to build 185 new homes in High Spen had recently been approved by Gateshead Council.

Post Link:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/g...-170025805

Link to Planning Application:
https://public.gateshead.gov.uk/online-a...USDHKMZO00&activeTab=summary

The map shows that the houses are to be built near Collingdon Road - just north of the Bute Arms and near to High Spen Bus Stand.

185 homes means probably 500 or more residents are going to be moving to the area. Collingdon Road is currently served by the 10A and R6 - the X47 disappears up the bank after the Bute Arms.

The purpose of this thread, I guess, is to discuss new building developments and their proximity to public transport links. 

Is the current level of service enough or will High Spen merit a X47A in the near future?

From the entrance of the new estate to the stop on Glossip Street is maybe a 3-4 minute walk, I have friends that live on that road and they just walk to catch the X47 rather than the 10A. If I'm travelling to theirs I always get the 10A because I'm too lazy to walk!

In terms of passenger numbers, that part of the route isn't really that busy, or at least whenever I've been using it. It doesn't really fill up until you get to Rowlands Gill
(03 Oct 2020, 2:19 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: I was reading the Skyscraper City forum this morning and noticed that a planning application to build 185 new homes in High Spen had recently been approved by Gateshead Council.

Post Link:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/g...-170025805

Link to Planning Application:
https://public.gateshead.gov.uk/online-a...USDHKMZO00&activeTab=summary

The map shows that the houses are to be built near Collingdon Road - just north of the Bute Arms and near to High Spen Bus Stand.

185 homes means probably 500 or more residents are going to be moving to the area. Collingdon Road is currently served by the 10A and R6 - the X47 disappears up the bank after the Bute Arms.

The purpose of this thread, I guess, is to discuss new building developments and their proximity to public transport links. 

Is the current level of service enough or will High Spen merit a X47A in the near future?

It will be interesting to see if there is an S106 and any associated support by the developer towards public transport. 
An extra 185+ cars on the roads around there will be noticeable. 

In the coalfields, there's an awful lot of house building, planning and pontificating going on. 
In addition to the rebuilding of homes by Gentoo, work is going on behind The Beehive, off Sedgeletch Road, Lord Lambton's Estate, on the site of the old coke works at Bournmoor, Phili Yard, alongside Herrington Park and probably others that I've missed.
Forgetting local infrastructure and whether or not schools, GP surgeries etc can cope, I'm not aware of any S106 to increase public transport provision nor development to the existing network on a commercial basis by any operator.
Needless to say, the roads will not be able to cope with the inevitable increase in traffic across the area.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(03 Oct 2020, 3:17 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: It will be interesting to see if there is an S106 and any associated support by the developer towards public transport. 
An extra 185+ cars on the roads around there will be noticeable. 

In the coalfields, there's an awful lot of house building, planning and pontificating going on. 
In addition to the rebuilding of homes by Gentoo, work is going on behind The Beehive, off Sedgeletch Road, Lord Lambton's Estate, on the site of the old coke works at Bournmoor, Phili Yard, alongside Herrington Park and probably others that I've missed.
Forgetting local infrastructure and whether or not schools, GP surgeries etc can cope, I'm not aware of any S106 to increase public transport provision nor development to the existing network on a commercial basis by any operator.
Needless to say, the roads will not be able to cope with the inevitable increase in traffic across the area.

Probably worth an FOI to see what S106 money has been collected and spent in the last 5 years. I'd suggest the majority of it will actually be spent outside of the electoral ward in which it was collected. I'd favour having something like a Land Value Tax in place; charging a levy on the increase of value in land, once developers have finished these estates.

Washington East ward had the big expansion of the Teal Farm estate recently, which ended up giving it village status - with a new pub, shop and chippy. It still doesn't have a bus service that is connected to the rest of the network. Its either a 20 minute walk to Barmston Court or Waterview Park.
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2 new developments to the east and wast of Hazlerigg. Served by 44 arriva service. No extra buses and considering all house has 1 or more cars outside I don't think there would be a need for any!
(03 Oct 2020, 4:03 pm)Rob44 Wrote: 2 new developments to the east and wast of Hazlerigg. Served by 44 arriva service. No extra buses and considering all house has 1 or more cars outside I don't think there would be a need for any!

I fear that is the attitude that operators are taking, sad as it may seem! But you're never going to attract more people onto public transport, when they cannot get access to public transport.
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(03 Oct 2020, 5:07 pm)Adrian Wrote: I fear that is the attitude that operators are taking, sad as it may seem! But you're never going to attract more people onto public transport, when they cannot get access to public transport.

A lot of new residents will have kids who'll need to use public transport until they're old enough to take driving lessons and get a car.

While I appreciate the freedom of having your own mode of motorised transport is extremely appealing to a seventeen-year-old, I think more needs to be done by bus operators to deter this from happening. After all, school children who are using public transport today are potentially your full-fare paying customers of tomorrow, and if the provision isn't there then they'll always opt for the utility of the car/bike/scooter over the bus.
(03 Oct 2020, 5:07 pm)Adrian Wrote: I fear that is the attitude that operators are taking, sad as it may seem! But you're never going to attract more people onto public transport, when they cannot get access to public transport.

Access to public transport was the number one thing on my list when I was looking for a house. Access to GNE in particular, although a short trip on an Arriva to get to GNE would be fine. 
That's why I decided to move down to Bishop (That, and being 30 miles away from people I went to school with so there's basically zero chance of bumping into them and having to pretend it's nice to see them!)

(03 Oct 2020, 5:54 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: A lot of new residents will have kids who'll need to use public transport until they're old enough to take driving lessons and get a car.

While I appreciate the freedom of having your own mode of motorised transport is extremely appealing to a seventeen-year-old, I think more needs to be done by bus operators to deter this from happening. After all, school children who are using public transport today are potentially your full-fare paying customers of tomorrow, and if the provision isn't there then they'll always opt for the utility of the car/bike/scooter over the bus.

To be honest, when I was 17, getting a car was at the bottom of my list of things I wanted. The expense of driving lessons, car insurance, car tax and fuel just didn't appeal to me when I can pay less than my friends pay in insurance alone on a bus ticket.
Sure, it's not as 'convenient' as having my own car, but the savings more than make up for it.
(03 Oct 2020, 5:07 pm)Adrian Wrote: I fear that is the attitude that operators are taking, sad as it may seem! But you're never going to attract more people onto public transport, when they cannot get access to public transport.

When developers start to design their estates with public transport in mind, then maybe companies will change their minds!
(03 Oct 2020, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Wrote: When developers start to design their estates with public transport in mind, then maybe companies will change their minds!

The issue is the size of the roads, if they make the roads big enough for buses, they can't fit as many houses in. If they can't fit as many houses in, they make less money. If they make less money, they won't do it!

Isn't there a planning condition in Durham that there must be a bus stop within 400m of any new development, and if there isn't the developer has to subsidise it?
(03 Oct 2020, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Wrote: When developers start to design their estates with public transport in mind, then maybe companies will change their minds!

Developers often do make provision for public transport when designing housing or industrial estates. There's a new development on the grounds of Ryhope Hospital that immediately springs to mind which has bus-stops included within the estate and there are plenty of examples where new business parks have provided bus-stops which have hardly ever been used.

I think part of the problem is that housing estates are not designed to be thoroughfares so there is no need to build wide roads, but there are plenty of estates with access roads wide enough accommodate a bus or two. However, there is room for improvement - developers could, for example, provide turning circles which would make housing estates, in particular, more accessible for public transport.
Another thing I found on Skyscraper City. 

Forum link:
https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/c...-166304404

Planning Application:
https://publicaccess.durham.gov.uk/onlin...HTNGDK6M00&activeTab=summary

It's a bit dated but I have yet to see work commence on the project. Planning permission was granted in February but, presumably, COVID has played its part in the delay.

Consett is getting a new community hospital, various care units, a gym, a hotel, a veterinary practise and micro-brewery to be built in the area opposite Tesco and Morrisons at Puddlers' Corner.

Being on the main-route into Hownsgill, which is where I imagine road access will be, I imagine this will be quite well-served by GNE.

I don't know what this will mean for Shotley Bridge Hospital. There is a new housing estate on much of the former grounds so, if that gets merged into the new hospital, then I imagine the hospital will be no-more.
I just noticed today that they're building a new estate in Tindale just off Greenfields Road, I wonder if, once it's completed, Weardale will see passenger numbers increase on the 9 enough to make GNE consider diverting the X21 back up that way (Assuming the B5s could even handle it)

Speaking of new things being built in Tindale, I wonder if they're ever going to start building that cinema and bowling alley. I believe it was supposed to open this month!
(03 Oct 2020, 7:53 pm)Kuyoyo Wrote: When developers start to design their estates with public transport in mind, then maybe companies will change their minds!


The only thing stopping developers, is the developers.

(03 Oct 2020, 8:35 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: I just noticed today that they're building a new estate in Tindale just off Greenfields Road, I wonder if, once it's completed, Weardale will see passenger numbers increase on the 9 enough to make GNE consider diverting the X21 back up that way (Assuming the B5s could even handle it)

Speaking of new things being built in Tindale, I wonder if they're ever going to start building that cinema and bowling alley. I believe it was supposed to open this month! 

I reckon its 15 years since developers decided they were going to build a cinema at the Galleries.
The land is still derelict.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
They use to get the 18 and 19 round a very tight South Bents!
(03 Oct 2020, 9:18 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: The only thing stopping developers, is the developers.


I reckon its 15 years since developers decided they were going to build a cinema at the Galleries.
The land is still derelict.

The Leisure Phase plans officially went on display in 2014. I took some photos at the time: https://imgur.com/a/oFRr8Xn
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(04 Oct 2020, 12:22 pm)Adrian Wrote: The Leisure Phase plans officially went on display in 2014. I took some photos at the time: https://imgur.com/a/oFRr8Xn

The original mention of the cinema was well before then and came about when the building on the site was demolished.
Surprised it took that long to get the plans drawn up although not surprised to see the land still sitting empty.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(03 Oct 2020, 8:07 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: The issue is the size of the roads, if they make the roads big enough for buses, they can't fit as many houses in. If they can't fit as many houses in, they make less money. If they make less money, they won't do it!

Isn't there a planning condition in Durham that there must be a bus stop within 400m of any new development, and if there isn't the developer has to subsidise it?
If that's the case, then the aykley Woods development near the police station must only just be within that limit with the stops at the hospital.

(03 Oct 2020, 9:18 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: The only thing stopping developers, is the developers.


I reckon its 15 years since developers decided they were going to build a cinema at the Galleries.
The land is still derelict.
It'll probably be derelict for a while longer with cine world's announcement, today.
(04 Oct 2020, 4:59 pm)BusLoverMum Wrote: If that's the case, then the aykley Woods development near the police station must only just be within that limit with the stops at the hospital.

Again, another example of an access road to a new development wide enough to accommodate buses if needed although a turning circle would be needed at the end of the road itself.
New bridge proposed to replace the two level crossings at Tileshed Lane and Boldon Lane. Though I don't use it often myself, I've been stuck there for seemingly an age waiting for Metro and a train to pass. I would imagine it could cause significant delays to buses if there is a lot of traffic about.

https://www.southtyneside.gov.uk/article...l-Barriers