Pricing
Pricing
(20 Apr 2020, 3:44 pm)Ambassador I imagine we'll see that happen for most businesses, however GNE are classed as keyworkers so although they have a lot of people working from home they can (with proper social distancing) have them in the office as needed as they are carrying out essential support for keyworkers.Ha! Yes! Husband has been helping a new graduate starter get going, remotely, today. Had fun trying to keep Littlun out of the way while he was interviewing, the other week. He can see them doing a mix of office based and remote stuff, once this is all over. Sometimes they have to work with specific hardware, or at least familiarise themselves with it and some of the work they do needs particularly stringent security which can't be achieved in someone's dining room but a fair bit of his work doesn't need to be office based.
It will be the case for a long time where only frontline workers are public facing or office based.
Welcome to the new normal!
(20 Apr 2020, 3:44 pm)Ambassador I imagine we'll see that happen for most businesses, however GNE are classed as keyworkers so although they have a lot of people working from home they can (with proper social distancing) have them in the office as needed as they are carrying out essential support for keyworkers.Ha! Yes! Husband has been helping a new graduate starter get going, remotely, today. Had fun trying to keep Littlun out of the way while he was interviewing, the other week. He can see them doing a mix of office based and remote stuff, once this is all over. Sometimes they have to work with specific hardware, or at least familiarise themselves with it and some of the work they do needs particularly stringent security which can't be achieved in someone's dining room but a fair bit of his work doesn't need to be office based.
It will be the case for a long time where only frontline workers are public facing or office based.
Welcome to the new normal!
(20 Apr 2020, 3:32 pm)Ambassador The next big issue is post lockdown.
Even with a gradual return the reality is many of us won't see the inside of our offices potentially until next year. The likes of Zoom and Microsoft Teams have opened the eyes of even the most hardened IT critic. Equally some businesses who were already struggling simply won't survive. Then there's a confidence issue of passengers themselves (how many parents - where they can - will now drive little Jimmy and Jane to school instead of risking their little darlings on a bus?)
This of course means the same passengers numbers won't be there and I think Martijn G and the Team at GNE are very aware of that but it's a huge challenge for them and even before COVID-19 it was already a big ask. Sellable assets aren't assets if you're competitors are equally in the same position which rules out an immediate cash flow solution.
It's a balancing act between enticing passengers back and paying your costs and it's going to be like that across most of business, however I think for public transport (buses in particular) it will be a much much bigger challenge
(20 Apr 2020, 3:32 pm)Ambassador The next big issue is post lockdown.
Even with a gradual return the reality is many of us won't see the inside of our offices potentially until next year. The likes of Zoom and Microsoft Teams have opened the eyes of even the most hardened IT critic. Equally some businesses who were already struggling simply won't survive. Then there's a confidence issue of passengers themselves (how many parents - where they can - will now drive little Jimmy and Jane to school instead of risking their little darlings on a bus?)
This of course means the same passengers numbers won't be there and I think Martijn G and the Team at GNE are very aware of that but it's a huge challenge for them and even before COVID-19 it was already a big ask. Sellable assets aren't assets if you're competitors are equally in the same position which rules out an immediate cash flow solution.
It's a balancing act between enticing passengers back and paying your costs and it's going to be like that across most of business, however I think for public transport (buses in particular) it will be a much much bigger challenge
(20 Apr 2020, 3:57 pm)streetdeckfan I was thinking purely financially, while there is an advantage to having customer service 'in house', if they can get rid of a whole property and have them work from home instead, that's got to save an awful lot of money!
Like you say, a lot of businesses have opened their eyes to homeworking, and if you can save money by doing it permanently, why wouldn't you?
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
(20 Apr 2020, 3:57 pm)streetdeckfan I was thinking purely financially, while there is an advantage to having customer service 'in house', if they can get rid of a whole property and have them work from home instead, that's got to save an awful lot of money!
Like you say, a lot of businesses have opened their eyes to homeworking, and if you can save money by doing it permanently, why wouldn't you?
Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk
Regarding passenger numbers at the other side of this, I'm not overly sure there will be a dramatic immediate change.
On the first day back in "normality" folk will want to be getting out and about, going to the pub for drinks, going to town with friends etc - a bus companies dream. For ANE, I imagine there will be a number of people wanting trips up and down the coast to Seahouses/Whitby/Scarborough. Football will return, another huge day for bus companies in and out of Newcastle. Workers for restaurants, bars etc will all return to work, as will those working in shops and the like.
Office workers may well carry on working from home, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see them all back in. All of the office workers I know have been saying that productivity has dropped through the floor since this all started. Similarly, universities and schools will all be back. Speaking as someone who's just sat their first honours exam, the past 3 weeks have been absolute hell not having a library available, so students will return to using buses in the same volume as they were before.
More specifically looking at pricing - people who don't have to use the bus for short trips won't. If its a 5 minute walk to the stop, with the bus taking 10 minutes to the next town, and people have access to a car then they'll drive it 99.9% of the time. Where you're far more likely to convince "leisure passengers" onto the bus is into the city centre, where it's more likely that they'll be going for a few hours, maybe a few drinks. To these passengers, pricing, frequency and atmosphere will be most important in getting them to return. Couples or groups of friends are hardly likely to be requiring tables for their afternoon/night out in town, but they will appreciate comfortable seating and a pleasant ambience. The actual design of the bus helps a lot here, personally I think ADL have got it spot on with windows etc whereas the shallower Wright windows make the bus feel smaller and less airy.
(20 Apr 2020, 5:37 pm)mb134 Regarding passenger numbers at the other side of this, I'm not overly sure there will be a dramatic immediate change.
On the first day back in "normality" folk will want to be getting out and about, going to the pub for drinks, going to town with friends etc - a bus companies dream. For ANE, I imagine there will be a number of people wanting trips up and down the coast to Seahouses/Whitby/Scarborough. Football will return, another huge day for bus companies in and out of Newcastle. Workers for restaurants, bars etc will all return to work, as will those working in shops and the like.
Office workers may well carry on working from home, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see them all back in. All of the office workers I know have been saying that productivity has dropped through the floor since this all started. Similarly, universities and schools will all be back. Speaking as someone who's just sat their first honours exam, the past 3 weeks have been absolute hell not having a library available, so students will return to using buses in the same volume as they were before.
More specifically looking at pricing - people who don't have to use the bus for short trips won't. If its a 5 minute walk to the stop, with the bus taking 10 minutes to the next town, and people have access to a car then they'll drive it 99.9% of the time. Where you're far more likely to convince "leisure passengers" onto the bus is into the city centre, where it's more likely that they'll be going for a few hours, maybe a few drinks. To these passengers, pricing, frequency and atmosphere will be most important in getting them to return. Couples or groups of friends are hardly likely to be requiring tables for their afternoon/night out in town, but they will appreciate comfortable seating and a pleasant ambience. The actual design of the bus helps a lot here, personally I think ADL have got it spot on with windows etc whereas the shallower Wright windows make the bus feel smaller and less airy.
(20 Apr 2020, 5:37 pm)mb134 Regarding passenger numbers at the other side of this, I'm not overly sure there will be a dramatic immediate change.
On the first day back in "normality" folk will want to be getting out and about, going to the pub for drinks, going to town with friends etc - a bus companies dream. For ANE, I imagine there will be a number of people wanting trips up and down the coast to Seahouses/Whitby/Scarborough. Football will return, another huge day for bus companies in and out of Newcastle. Workers for restaurants, bars etc will all return to work, as will those working in shops and the like.
Office workers may well carry on working from home, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see them all back in. All of the office workers I know have been saying that productivity has dropped through the floor since this all started. Similarly, universities and schools will all be back. Speaking as someone who's just sat their first honours exam, the past 3 weeks have been absolute hell not having a library available, so students will return to using buses in the same volume as they were before.
More specifically looking at pricing - people who don't have to use the bus for short trips won't. If its a 5 minute walk to the stop, with the bus taking 10 minutes to the next town, and people have access to a car then they'll drive it 99.9% of the time. Where you're far more likely to convince "leisure passengers" onto the bus is into the city centre, where it's more likely that they'll be going for a few hours, maybe a few drinks. To these passengers, pricing, frequency and atmosphere will be most important in getting them to return. Couples or groups of friends are hardly likely to be requiring tables for their afternoon/night out in town, but they will appreciate comfortable seating and a pleasant ambience. The actual design of the bus helps a lot here, personally I think ADL have got it spot on with windows etc whereas the shallower Wright windows make the bus feel smaller and less airy.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:24 pm)Ambassador The problem is there won't be an immediate return to normality. Not everything will reopen at the same time, not everything will reopen. People won't just suddenly start getting on buses and trains - especially if face mask guidance comes in. People will remain wary and will likely stick to their car.Agree even when buses do go back to normal service I can't see people using them unless they really have to. I think people will think twice before going on days out using buses for at least 6 month to a year and that's when we do have normality back. It's very likely some bus companies possibly one or two of the big ones will go bust because of this.
We're still in the realms of shielded and the elderly being isolated until 2021.
Pricing won't be the problem. Survival will.
(21 Apr 2020, 1:24 pm)Ambassador The problem is there won't be an immediate return to normality. Not everything will reopen at the same time, not everything will reopen. People won't just suddenly start getting on buses and trains - especially if face mask guidance comes in. People will remain wary and will likely stick to their car.Agree even when buses do go back to normal service I can't see people using them unless they really have to. I think people will think twice before going on days out using buses for at least 6 month to a year and that's when we do have normality back. It's very likely some bus companies possibly one or two of the big ones will go bust because of this.
We're still in the realms of shielded and the elderly being isolated until 2021.
Pricing won't be the problem. Survival will.
(24 Apr 2020, 2:50 pm)col87 Agree even when buses do go back to normal service I can't see people using them unless they really have to. I think people will think twice before going on days out using buses for at least 6 month to a year and that's when we do have normality back. It's very likely some bus companies possibly one or two of the big ones will go bust because of this.
(24 Apr 2020, 2:50 pm)col87 Agree even when buses do go back to normal service I can't see people using them unless they really have to. I think people will think twice before going on days out using buses for at least 6 month to a year and that's when we do have normality back. It's very likely some bus companies possibly one or two of the big ones will go bust because of this.
(17 Apr 2020, 8:25 pm)James101 Buses could be ran with objectives other than profit. These could be along the lines of ensuring urban populations are within 500m of a regular service, rural communities of over 1000 people are connected at least twice a week or bus services are incorporated into new developments from the beginning, ending the current bus deserts that come with new housing. Flat fare and single operator brand would be so much more accessible for the general public. No more of the pricing anomalies/legacy pricing/gouging as discussed above.
(17 Apr 2020, 8:25 pm)James101 Buses could be ran with objectives other than profit. These could be along the lines of ensuring urban populations are within 500m of a regular service, rural communities of over 1000 people are connected at least twice a week or bus services are incorporated into new developments from the beginning, ending the current bus deserts that come with new housing. Flat fare and single operator brand would be so much more accessible for the general public. No more of the pricing anomalies/legacy pricing/gouging as discussed above.
(02 May 2020, 11:14 am)Adrian This is something that still surprises me. There's section 106 money up for grabs through agreement with most new developments of significance, yet it rarely seems to be used on giving a 'kick start' to a new bus service (or re-routing) to serve the new estate. Perhaps a lobbying opportunity for the operators to encourage in the future...
(02 May 2020, 11:14 am)Adrian This is something that still surprises me. There's section 106 money up for grabs through agreement with most new developments of significance, yet it rarely seems to be used on giving a 'kick start' to a new bus service (or re-routing) to serve the new estate. Perhaps a lobbying opportunity for the operators to encourage in the future...
#mindblown
Interesting move in Blackpool - cut fares to encourage more travel. Will hopefully help them grow numbers during staycation.
Credit to them, they've got a very modern fleet with bells and whistles and are very reliable in the face of almost constant traffic disruption around the town.
https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/busin...st-2932341
Isn't there an operator that's doing 50% off tickets during the Eat Out to Help Out scheme? I vaguely remember seeing a tweet about it but can't remember who it was
(05 Aug 2020, 9:26 am)Ambassador Interesting move in Blackpool - cut fares to encourage more travel. Will hopefully help them grow numbers during staycation.
Credit to them, they've got a very modern fleet with bells and whistles and are very reliable in the face of almost constant traffic disruption around the town.
https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/busin...st-2932341
(05 Aug 2020, 9:26 am)Ambassador Interesting move in Blackpool - cut fares to encourage more travel. Will hopefully help them grow numbers during staycation.
Credit to them, they've got a very modern fleet with bells and whistles and are very reliable in the face of almost constant traffic disruption around the town.
https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/busin...st-2932341
(05 Aug 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Something I wish other operators would do. As opposed to complaining that numbers are gonna drop and shrugging their shoulders about it.
(05 Aug 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Something I wish other operators would do. As opposed to complaining that numbers are gonna drop and shrugging their shoulders about it.
(05 Aug 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Something I wish other operators would do. As opposed to complaining that numbers are gonna drop and shrugging their shoulders about it.
(05 Aug 2020, 10:19 am)Andreos1 Something I wish other operators would do. As opposed to complaining that numbers are gonna drop and shrugging their shoulders about it.
(05 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Ambassador Ah yes but to have a brand new bus fleet with NSA, leather, tables and wooden flooring you can't possibly reduce pricing. It's what we've been told on here for years!
Of course it helps when you don't have shareholders as your number one Customer...
(05 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Ambassador Ah yes but to have a brand new bus fleet with NSA, leather, tables and wooden flooring you can't possibly reduce pricing. It's what we've been told on here for years!
Of course it helps when you don't have shareholders as your number one Customer...
(05 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Ambassador Ah yes but to have a brand new bus fleet with NSA, leather, tables and wooden flooring you can't possibly reduce pricing. It's what we've been told on here for years!
Of course it helps when you don't have shareholders as your number one Customer...
(05 Aug 2020, 11:16 am)streetdeckfan Why would they reduce pricing? They're already reasonably priced as it is, as long as you don't buy a single, which almost never make sense.
(05 Aug 2020, 10:44 am)Ambassador Ah yes but to have a brand new bus fleet with NSA, leather, tables and wooden flooring you can't possibly reduce pricing. It's what we've been told on here for years!
Of course it helps when you don't have shareholders as your number one Customer...
(05 Aug 2020, 11:16 am)streetdeckfan Why would they reduce pricing? They're already reasonably priced as it is, as long as you don't buy a single, which almost never make sense.
(05 Aug 2020, 12:10 pm)Andreos1
It's almost as if pricing theory goes out of the vinyl covered window!
But that's the thing, sometimes a single is the only option. Not everyone is a regular punter on the X21 and not everyone needs or is able to use a bus every day.
I've shared many an example of when I've needed to buy a single and had to be peeled off the floor with shock when the driver has announced the latest increase.
That's just me. There's many other permutations and reasons why singles are the only option.
Granted the evening, 24 hour and other new tickets are an improvement on what was seen previously. I don't think it's perfect by any means.
The fact Blackpool are putting measures in to place by reducing fares and gaining some word of mouth and free press advertising in the process is only a good thing. Isn't it?
(05 Aug 2020, 12:10 pm)Andreos1
It's almost as if pricing theory goes out of the vinyl covered window!
But that's the thing, sometimes a single is the only option. Not everyone is a regular punter on the X21 and not everyone needs or is able to use a bus every day.
I've shared many an example of when I've needed to buy a single and had to be peeled off the floor with shock when the driver has announced the latest increase.
That's just me. There's many other permutations and reasons why singles are the only option.
Granted the evening, 24 hour and other new tickets are an improvement on what was seen previously. I don't think it's perfect by any means.
The fact Blackpool are putting measures in to place by reducing fares and gaining some word of mouth and free press advertising in the process is only a good thing. Isn't it?
(05 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm)streetdeckfan Hence why I said 'almost never'. In a few situations, it does make sense. But realistically, when is the average person making a single journey? Surely they want to get home!
Plus, I was talking more about pricing in general, at the minute, I'd say a price decrease (even if it is just an offer) is probably better marketing than an ad campaign!
(05 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm)streetdeckfan Hence why I said 'almost never'. In a few situations, it does make sense. But realistically, when is the average person making a single journey? Surely they want to get home!
Plus, I was talking more about pricing in general, at the minute, I'd say a price decrease (even if it is just an offer) is probably better marketing than an ad campaign!
(05 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm)streetdeckfan Hence why I said 'almost never'. In a few situations, it does make sense. But realistically, when is the average person making a single journey? Surely they want to get home!
Plus, I was talking more about pricing in general, at the minute, I'd say a price decrease (even if it is just an offer) is probably better marketing than an ad campaign!
(05 Aug 2020, 12:14 pm)streetdeckfan Hence why I said 'almost never'. In a few situations, it does make sense. But realistically, when is the average person making a single journey? Surely they want to get home!
Plus, I was talking more about pricing in general, at the minute, I'd say a price decrease (even if it is just an offer) is probably better marketing than an ad campaign!
