North East Buses

Just thought I would start a thread to see what peoples thoughts are about pricing across the region.

With the wide range of tickets, discounts and passes, are they structured fairly? Are they expensive or are they value for money?

Just had a quick look at the GNE facebook and twitter pages for prices and found out the following:

* Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Houghton Single = £3.95
* Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Shiney Row Single = £3.15
* Seaham to Hetton Return = £4.40
* Middlesbrough to Darlington Return = £4.10
* Houghton to Washington Return = £5.50
* Seaham to Peterlee Single w Key = £2.20

Can anyone see logic in those prices or is it just me that fails to see it?
They argue it is based on a staged structure rather than distance - so why are there less stages between Darlington and Middlesbrough than say Houghton and Washington or Hetton and Seaham?

Judging by those prices it's just as cheap to either by a Daysaver in those zones or a Day Ticket.

I do think some tickets are overpriced e.g. Red/Purple Day Ticket is £6.10 now I think, it becomes even more expensive when going into County Durham as you have the Price of your Day Ticket and a Standard Single at the Boundary. Unless you buy a 3 Zone+ Buzzfare ticket for £7.65.

I think GNE/Arriva/Stagecoach need to come together with Nexus and find a Solution and have a Reasonable set ticket price for Singles and Have just the one Day Ticket thats does all like the DayRover/Explorer but for a cheaper price, and scrap this zonal system we currently have.

or

Have a Price Freeze where operators once they put prices up are not allowed to increase them again in that financial year. Because GNE seem to up there prices everytime they buy new buses to cover the cost of Fuel etc. Myself Personally I Bike/Walk everywhere unless i'm going to Sunderland/Newcastle for example or if the Weather is quite bad.

We quite possibly have the most complex ticketing system in the whole of the UK. If I was an outsider looking in, I wouldn't have a clue what I needed to buy to get from A to B and back. Not to mention what happens if a bus operated by a different company turns up.

I don't know much about the Arriva or Stagecoach options up here, but having now looked on their websites, I'd say they offered the better commercial zonal ticket options up here. They both keep it simple, and it essentially means a day ticket is a day ticket - no confusion.

Go North East on the other hand; I think they had the right idea to begin with, but it's as if other options have just been glued on to the model they started with. To be honest, I was a fan of the old 'Go n Save' model. You could simply have a Tyne and Wear, Three Cities, or a Regionwide ticket.

I really dislike the Buzzfare system. The boundary drawings are nothing but a money squeezer - I can't see much other sense in them to be honest. For example, someone living in Washington and needing to travel to Chester Le Street and Shiney Row would need the same 3+ zone ticket that Boro, to Ashington, and across to Hexham.

On a more positive note, I think the town/city savers for shorter trips are quite good. I don't think they should be zonal though. The single/return fares however make little sense to me, and they confuse the life out of people. It makes no sense that getting from A to B costs more or less depending which bus you get on.

The fact they have a 20 odd page booklet to tell passengers about the range of tickets tells people all they need to know.

I have to agree with the other points about the old go n save tickets and the point made about a short journey between 3 corners of the buzzfare adjoining zones costing the same as a ticket to travel between the 3 furthest points of the GNE network.

However handy the town and city tickets are, passengers living just beyond those points or in one of the very few towns to not have one, are penalised and I am convinced the higher fares subsidise the lower fares to maintain profit.

I am no-way an expert in bus fare pricing systems, but I think the person/people in-charge of GNE's would have a hard job convincing an ordinary punter that the system works or is indeed fair.

Does anyone have any pricing information pre-2010? Specifically for Buzzfare, Go n Save, Get Around.

Aureolin -these prices are correct as of June 2008. Apologies for the poor quality photos. Hope this helps.

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I knew the prices had gone up for day, week, 28 Day tickets etc, but hadnt realised how much in just a few years!

Just had a quick look at other GNE price queries on their twitter and facebook page for comparison to the initial ones from yesterday.

* Metrocentre to Eldon Square Daysaver = £3.40

* Herrington Board Inn to Easington Lane Single/Return = £1.95/£3.60

* Durham to Newcastle Day Return = £5.50

* Chowdene Bank, Low Fell to Gateshead for an adult single/day ticket and child day ticket with Pop Card/Get Around Card = £1.95/£3.60 and £1.10/£3.65 (yes, I have typed it correctly and yes, you have read it correctly - a childs ticket is dearer than an adults!)

* Annfield Plain to University Hospital Durham Day Return = £4.40

* Consett to Durham Single = £4.60

Completely forgot about a child being charged £3.15 single between Houghton and Chester at Easter too!

As I very rarely use other operators, can anyone else provide info on the Arriva or Stagecoach pricing structure for comparison?

(08 May 2013, 9:46 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]* Herrington Board Inn to Easington Lane Single/Return = £1.95/£3.60

This is very strange considering the price of single between Barnes Park and Easington Lane on the X35 is £3.15. (Link: https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/3...4502334464 )

On another note, I've found some information on Go and Save Prices circa 2004.



Also of note is this: the A2B Go and Save for people wanting to travel just one or two stops outside of the Tyne and Wear boundary zones.

http://web.archive.org/web/2004041721130...plygo.com/

**EDIT: Clicking on the link involves digging round the site to find what I'm referring to. Instead, I've included the information as it appears on the site in a block quote below.**

f you regulary travel a short distance between two stops, one of which is outside Tyne & Wear, you could be saving money with an A2B Go'n'Save Bus Card. This gives you 7 or 28 days unlimited travel between your chosen two points on Go North East buses all day, every day.

A2B Go'n'Save Bus Cards are calculated using adult single fares and are available where this fare is 50p or above. For 7 days unlimited travel you pay 81/2 times your adult single fare, and for 28 days, 30 times this fare. to find out how much you could be saving, have a look at the table below:

I was not aware this even existed until now!

The re-introduction of something similar to this would help passengers located on the edges of zonal boundaries.

Thats a great link - the fleet movements were interesting!
Some of the older vehicles like the Nationals and Metrobuses were being shifted on to new locations... It will have been about then the Rxxx LGH deckers came to replace the original Olympians and Metrobuses.

The site might help aureloin with his prices request from yesterday as well.

Re the Barnes Park/Board Inn to Easington Lane prices - I copied those prices earlier today from requests on the facebook group or their twitter feed (cant remember which one specifically that was from) and the Board Inn is a boundary point for the Sunderland City Zone, but I am not sure how GNE can justify such a big difference in price, for such a small section of route.

I will continue adding a range of fares as and when I come across them.

Edit: The price from Board Inn to Easington Lane was on Facebook (Rebecca Boyle requested it)

A few more interesting examples of pricing:

Swalwell to Winlaton = £1.45 (single)
Swalwell to Whickham = £1.95 (single)

A return between Sunderland and Newcastle is priced at £5.50 on the 56 and £4.40 on the X3. A Metro DaySaver for this journey is also priced at £4.40 (All Zones) and is valid for travel on trains between Newcastle and Sunderland. (I wonder how much this fare is going to be on the X36?)

People usually assume that the Metro is going to be more expensive than the bus. As the above example shows this is not always the case. Sometimes it is even cheaper to travel by Metro. A return on the 27 between Hebburn and Newcastle is priced at £3.60; a two-zone day-saver between Hebburn and Newcastle is 10p cheaper at £3.50 and is valid for more than two journeys. I believe a similar example exists between Wallsend and North Shields.

What sort of world do we live in, if it is more expensive for a 1mile journey up a hill - than it is to travel a few miles down the road and then up another big hill?
Bonkers!

It appears GNE arent the only operator who are confused with their pricing structure.
Found this blog a few minutes ago and the bloke was on about an adventure he had in the Lakes with Stagecoach
www.planetbods.org/blog/2011/05/19/illogical_bus_fares

Cheers Brandon - that's really helpful.

The reason I was wanting the info is because I'm trying to build up something to show the rise in bus fares in the past 10 years, and compare that to the likes of CPI/RPI.

I wont post any other prices after this as I hopefully have conveyed how strange the pricing structure is - however if anyone has any other operators fares either through experience or other means, I would appreciate them being listed for comparison.

Also if anyone is aware of the zones GNE use to determine singles/returns it would be appreciated.

* Hamsterley Mill - Metrocentre Single = £3.15
* Sunderland - Durham Return = £5:50
* Stanley Bus Station - Causey Park Inn Single = £3.15
*

I may try and put together a spreadsheet conveying the prices and upload it here.

Newcastle to Sunderland single on the 56 is £3.95.

I've only had to use it once when my car was in the garage being repaired. I honestly don't know how people can afford to use the bus now at those prices!

This made me chuckle this morning:

https://www.facebook.com/simplyGNE/posts...7748675710

Simplified prices eh? So simple it confuses everyone...

For comparison, use the price of fuel and wages.

When it comes down to public transport, whilst I would avoid the expense argument, I would say that we have a system that is too difficult to comprehend on the fly.

I would like to see a more local Metro+Bus day pass introduced. I don't need to travel to Sunderland on most days so I don't understand why I need to pay so much for an area pass. Why not introduce a £3/4 pass for half of Tyne and Wear? I think that the new smart card system will offer opportunities to cut the price of journeys by allowing selective demand management to be introduced particularly on the Metro where some counter peak journeys could be made cheaper for the pass holder.

I agree, ticketing does need simplifying. This document http://www.simplygo.com/download/publica...arch-2012/ demonstrates clearly the confusion caused by just one single operator. When you add other operators and Nexus to the picture, they put National Rail to shame.

However confusing ticketing options are, I still cannot see GNE being able to justify the bizarre prices they charge (as outlined above) or examples below.
Easington Lane - Houghton to Galleries return £5.50
Easington Lane - Houghton to Newcastle return £5.50
QE hospital to Shiney single £3.15
QE hospital to Houghton single £3.90

I hate zoning structure....

If I get the bus in Low Fell to a friends at Coach and Horses Birtley it costs £1.95 yet the ticket allows me to travel to North Lodge.

If I was going to North Lodge I'd be delighted but I'm not. Shorter journeys must make Go Ahead a fortune, especially on wet days like this when the walk to the pub may be a bit too wet.

Alas, if there's more than 2 of you, of which when I go out there is, it's cheaper to taxi.

So the entire stretch of Durham Road through Birtley Town Centre to the County Border is the same price?
GNE have stated numerous times they need to make a certain amount based on a pence/pound per mile versus fuel, insurance and wage costs ratio to ensure the service is viable.
Yet they structure their prices in a format that is the total opposite, meaning your journey at pence per mile is significantly more expensive than someone getting off at North Lodge.

(20 May 2013, 9:36 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]So the entire stretch of Durham Road through Birtley Town Centre to the County Border is the same price?
GNE have stated numerous times they need to make a certain amount based on a pence/pound per mile versus fuel, insurance and wage costs ratio to ensure the service is viable.
Yet they structure their prices in a format that is the total opposite, meaning your journey at pence per mile is significantly more expensive than someone getting off at North Lodge.

Yeah, it's actually been extended, it used to be Barley Mow (a £2.50 single fare from Newcastle to Birtley used to state - Barley Mow as the end point)

Now as you point out it's a huge difference. The start of Birtley to Barley is 2 miles, so travelling to Barley Mow gets you more bang for your buck so to speak, North Lodge is about 4 miles. Madness.

(20 May 2013, 9:36 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]GNE have stated numerous times they need to make a certain amount based on a pence/pound per mile versus fuel, insurance and wage costs ratio to ensure the service is viable.

I wonder how that formula applies to the OK1. The full route is approximately 30 miles in length between Bishop Auckland and Middlesbrough; the cost of a return ticket for this journey is £4.40. So lets give a conservative approximation of, say, 45 miles for the round trip there and back. Rounding up, the price per mile (£4.40/45) is £0.098. Bear in mind that insurance, maintenance and wage costs must taken out of that figure.

Now, lets look at the 71 and apply the same formula. The full route is approximately 7.5 miles in length between Chester-le-Street and Houghton-le-Spring. Based upon the £3.15 single fare between these destinations, the lowest price of a return is likely to be £4.40 (it may well be £5.50 - I don't know) so we'll use that figure for our calculations. The price per mile (£4.40/15) for this journey comes to £0.293 when rounding is applied.

Conclusion: The Earl of Scarborough must charge a pretty penny to allow GNE to operate buses past the grounds of Lumley Castle.

What about Stagecoach and Arriva? Do they have any similar "flaws" in their pricing?
We all seem to have spotted many Go North East pricing issues, but I can't recall off hand any big SNE/ANE prices being discussed.

@AdamY
I wonder if the different vehicle types (Solar versus SPD) impacts on the costs? After all, passengers on the 71 get more rattle and bounce for their buck

@Daniel
I have actually asked on here if other people could share the ANE and SNE prices, but no-one came forward...

I actually touched upon both. That was simply based on the information on the website though. Neither operate where I live, so I can't give a personal opinion

A South Shields Stagecoach Megarider which excludes the X34 but includes Economic services to Sunderland is priced at £40.00 for 28 days. A Stagecoach Megarider Plus for South Shields which also includes journeys on the X34 to Newcastle is priced at £52.00 for 28 days. 13 week tickets are also available priced at £127.00 and £163.00 respectively.

Comparatively, a GNE South-Tyneside weekly saver is priced at £11.40 per week, but I don't think that ticket is available as 28 day option. If it was, then I'd imagine it would be competitively priced against the Megarider Plus. This does not cover services from South Shields to Sunderland; for that, as you'll all know, a red Buzzfare is required costing £61.00 for 28 days.

I'm down in Brighton at the moment, and it's 17.50 a week on Brighton & Hove buses. That ticket will take you as far as the likes of Eastbourne and Tunbridge Wells. It also includes night buses, which from what I see, run every night. Nearly everything I've seen down here so far is on a 10 minute frequency, and I've never had to wait around for more than a couple of minutes for a bus heading my direction. I'm also a fan of their short hop fares, which are quite heavily advertised. Nice to see, rather than a blatent push to get everyone on day tickets. In summary, cracking value for a cracking service.

Here is the pricing section of their website www.buses.co.uk/tickets/ Interesting to see two companies operated by the same company operating in such a different manner...

One interesting comparison I've made.

Durham to Newcastle on the X21 or 21 is a 2 zone annual buzzfare which will set you back £822 a year.

Durham to Newcastle with Arriva on the X2 is £575 a year.

Durham to Newcastle on train is £1,148,00 (out of interest it's £816 from Chester Le Street) which means the train is cheaper than Go Ahead from Chester Le Street.

Now there's a massive discrepancy there between GNE and Arriva, now you get less choice with Arriva but for a commuter the Arriva X2 service runs at perfectly reliable times and is now run with decent kit.

Obviously the train stands out because your there in 10 minutes and you pay the premium