(06 Aug 2020, 11:44 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Or (bearing in mind tyresmokes post below), it creates a perception that the day, week or month tickets are better value than they actually are?
It still doesn't change the fact, that the market can't and will not grow, taking in to account those potential customers who can get to/from their destination quicker and cheaper using alternative means.
There's a natural limit on any bus corridor by virtue of the number of people living in that area.
You mention business management. Presumably you are aware of PESTEL/PESTLE and SWOT? Maybe it's worth you doing a pestle or basic swot analysis of the 20 route (including X20). Including fares, frequency, vehicle allocations and the times it starts to run off for the evening.
I would be interested to see your findings.
I've mentioned that several times. It seems to go straight over people's heads...
Quite frankly, I'd rather not, but I can see the point you're trying to make, I just happen to disagree that reducing the pricing would make enough of a difference to get more passengers. Although I do wonder whether GNE removing the ability to check single/return prices from the website was a conscious decision rather than it just being down to them changing platform like they made it out to be...
I don't think they're keeping single prices high to make give the impression other tickets are better value, and I don't necessarily think single tickets are /that/ expensive. Sure, they're perhaps not the best value out there, but they're not outrageous.
I personally think the main issue with the single ticket pricing is the fare stages. You can travel several miles and stay within a fare stage, and pay less than £2, or you can travel one stop, but pass over a 'border' and be charged double. I can't remember who it was, but I think travelling from Birtley to CLS was an issue for pricing?
320 for a under 6 mile journey to town is expensive in my view. if it was say £2 flat fare i for one would use it more. And ive said it before get me a bus pass that cost me £1 per day and i'll sell my car on autotrader and use the bus ( even though id have to get up earlier and get in later) to get to work. So if im up for that im sure other would be
(06 Aug 2020, 12:47 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]320 for a under 6 mile journey to town is expensive in my view. if it was say £2 flat fare i for one would use it more. And ive said it before get me a bus pass that cost me £1 per day and i'll sell my car on autotrader and use the bus ( even though id have to get up earlier and get in later) to get to work. So if im up for that im sure other would be
Depending on what your commute is, you can get it as low as £2.50 a day (assuming it's within one zone, averaged out over a month), an all zone ticket works out at just over £3 a day. To me, that's plenty cheap enough to not own a car.
I work 4 days out of five Monday to Friday and on the day off i doubt id have any reason to use the bus, so that would be around 3.16 per day. I work every Sunday but start at 730am when most GNE buses are tucket up in the garage so on that day i'd have to use the car.. I could use it when the football is back up and running but that I would need a network all zone pass which i believe is about £90 a month?
it might be to you but not to me or the many thousands of punters who've deserted the bus over the last several years.
(06 Aug 2020, 1:44 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]I work 4 days out of five Monday to Friday and on the day off i doubt id have any reason to use the bus, so that would be around 3.16 per day. I work every Sunday but start at 730am when most GNE buses are tucket up in the garage so on that day i'd have to use the car.. I could use it when the football is back up and running but that I would need a network all zone pass which i believe is about £90 a month?
it might be to you but not to me or the many thousands of punters who've deserted the bus over the last several years.
That's why I said it totally depends on your commute.
For me, the price of the monthly ticket is worth it. In fact, as I'm under 25, it's actually cheaper for me to but a day ticket than a single for the X21!
Not sure on the Network One as I travel outside of T&W.
I think I'll probably end up going back to paying the £95 a month for an all zone since I don't like the idea of relying on my phone for a ticket, but that means sacrificing the 5-25 ticket.
As I've also said before, we need to stop pretending that Sunday is a 'special' day anymore. It's not!
The reason buses don't run early or late on a Sunday is because shops are open, so the first thing to do would be to get rid of the Sunday trading act, then there's no excuse!
My mother works night shift on a Sunday, but she has to drive because there's no bus. A lot of people who she works with on a Friday night can't work the Sundays because they physically can't get there.
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(06 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]Quite frankly, I'd rather not, but I can see the point you're trying to make, I just happen to disagree that reducing the pricing would make enough of a difference to get more passengers. Although I do wonder whether GNE removing the ability to check single/return prices from the website was a conscious decision rather than it just being down to them changing platform like they made it out to be...
I don't think they're keeping single prices high to make give the impression other tickets are better value, and I don't necessarily think single tickets are /that/ expensive. Sure, they're perhaps not the best value out there, but they're not outrageous.
I personally think the main issue with the single ticket pricing is the fare stages. You can travel several miles and stay within a fare stage, and pay less than £2, or you can travel one stop, but pass over a 'border' and be charged double. I can't remember who it was, but I think travelling from Birtley to CLS was an issue for pricing?
Might be worth doing the next time you're on a 2 hour trip on the x21 or waiting 30 mins for the next one that has space at a table. Will kill some time.
As for the other bit about lowering prices not guaranteing an increase in profits. I agree. Its not guaranteed. However, there's many an example in public transport of the demand curve increasing with lower prices. There's been businesses built on that very model and there is many a business management theory which shows it can work.
The fact is, singles are expensive as operators use it to take advantage of the conc scheme.
As a result, it has a negative impact on irregular passengers or those making one direction journies (like the ones mentioned previously or who work with your mam).
Seen a lot of discussion here about prices but why not do the best of the both worlds and have an off-peak / peak fares. Keep the current pricing say between 6am - 9am and 4pm and 6pm Mon - Fri then if you travel outside these times have some form of special ticket at £2 (or less) for any single with an off peak day ticket at £3.50 throughout the whole network.
It promotes people onto the buses when they're at their quietest when most people are likely to want the singles, going to the train station, going to the pub etc. It's the best of both worlds imo. Might promote a few people who otherwise wouldn't use the bus but most commuters will still be on their usual weekly / montly tickets since you can't use them at peak times.
It's pretty much how any other form of industry / travel works.
(07 Aug 2020, 11:32 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Seen a lot of discussion here about prices but why not do the best of the both worlds and have an off-peak / peak fares. Keep the current pricing say between 6am - 9am and 4pm and 6pm Mon - Fri then if you travel outside these times have some form of special ticket at £2 (or less) for any single with an off peak day ticket at £3.50 throughout the whole network.
It promotes people onto the buses when they're at their quietest when most people are likely to want the singles, going to the train station, going to the pub etc. It's the best of both worlds imo. Might promote a few people who otherwise wouldn't use the bus but most commuters will still be on their usual weekly / montly tickets since you can't use them at peak times.
It's pretty much how any other form of industry / travel works.
I think something like 50% off, rounded to the nearest 10p (to save on having to carry more change), up to £3 single (for longer routes like X9/X10, X21 etc) would work quite well.
Going from MG's latest update, it looks like they're planning things to make buses more enticing, maybe they could incorporate something like this.
(07 Aug 2020, 11:32 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]Seen a lot of discussion here about prices but why not do the best of the both worlds and have an off-peak / peak fares. Keep the current pricing say between 6am - 9am and 4pm and 6pm Mon - Fri then if you travel outside these times have some form of special ticket at £2 (or less) for any single with an off peak day ticket at £3.50 throughout the whole network.
It promotes people onto the buses when they're at their quietest when most people are likely to want the singles, going to the train station, going to the pub etc. It's the best of both worlds imo. Might promote a few people who otherwise wouldn't use the bus but most commuters will still be on their usual weekly / montly tickets since you can't use them at peak times.
It's pretty much how any other form of industry / travel works.
I think they tried that on the X23 when coaches were allocated. There were a couple of pricing tiers if I remember right.
(14 Aug 2020, 1:32 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53761932
National express cutting fares using the bonus given to it by the government. Wonder if other companies will follow or just pass it on to shareholders here and abroad?
I mean, I'd imagine they'd just use to it to start plugging the hole that COVID has left in the finances.
Don't forget they've been running at a loss for the best part of 5 months now. The money the government has given them so far hasn't even brought them to the break even point.
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News should be posted on GNE fb page in the coming days, Tweaking of the Green zone to include Consett, savings for travelling to Stanley, Durham and Chester-le-street and introduction (or re-introduction) or weekly local savers for Consett, Stanley and Chester-le-street, other areas included. No mention of any fares going up.
(28 Aug 2020, 10:00 am)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]New, better than ever bus ticketing initiatives
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/new-better...EzyF6R8wfM
A Houghton zone?! *falls to the ground in shock*
One of the few areas never to have one...
Keen to know the actual zone boundaries. Not showing on the website yet.
New tickets are all well and good, but when am I going to be able to buy the 5-25 monthly ticket on The Key!
They seem to have all but abandoned it, but I'm willing to bet most regular travellers would prefer a physical card over an app.
I've been making use of the Flexi5 ticket recently and whenever I go out I'm scared to use my phone because if the battery dies, I can't get home!
They had young person tickets on The Key previously, they even had a 3 day equivalent of the Flexi5, so why is it such a big ask to have it now?
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(28 Aug 2020, 10:14 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]A Houghton zone?! *falls to the ground in shock*
One of the few areas never to have one...
Keen to know the actual zone boundaries. Not showing on the website yet.
Was going to ask the same question on the boundaries for the Durham & Houghton zones, Houghton could include everything from Easington Lane to Shiney Row? Durham one go as far as High Pittington to Sacriston?
I noticed on the GNE app, the GoZone map lines appear to be a bit wrong, it looks as if half of Sherburn Hill is in the red zone when I’m pretty sure it’s Green, as GNE don’t operate any further than Sherburn Hill in that area. So there isn’t really a need for a red boundary in that area.
(30 Aug 2020, 5:03 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]Does anyone know the boundaries of the new zone tickets?, no information on the site yet.
The boundary points aren't available for any tickets afaik. I've asked for this before, but the response was that I should ask for specific services.
It would be really useful in terms of journey planning if the info was just available on the website.
Looking at the
Washington Saver zones for example, is the ticket valid to Usworth? Usworth is clearly part of Washington, yet the zone map would indicate it is not included in the Washington Saver ticket. Springwell village would be included in the saver zone based on the map outline, but there is no point to suggest that it might be. The final one would be Mount Pleasant, which is officially a Washington 'district', yet not indicating a boundary point towards that end of the map outline leaves it open to debate. ?♂️
More positively, these maps are great:
https://images-gonortheast.passenger-website.com/2020-08/little%20coaster%20network%20map%20A4%20web.pdf
Can we have more of them, preferably showing ticket boundaries too.
(30 Aug 2020, 5:28 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]The boundary points aren't available for any tickets afaik. I've asked for this before, but the response was that I should ask for specific services.
It would be really useful in terms of journey planning if the info was just available on the website.
Looking at the Washington Saver zones for example, is the ticket valid to Usworth? Usworth is clearly part of Washington, yet the zone map would indicate it is not included in the Washington Saver ticket. Springwell village would be included in the saver zone based on the map outline, but there is no point to suggest that it might be. The final one would be Mount Pleasant, which is officially a Washington 'district', yet not indicating a boundary point towards that end of the map outline leaves it open to debate. ?[emoji3603]
More positively, these maps are great: https://images-gonortheast.passenger-website.com/2020-08/little%20coaster%20network%20map%20A4%20web.pdf
Can we have more of them, preferably showing ticket boundaries too.
Washington's boundaries are relatively well defined due to the services which operate through the boundaries however, I agree that that map doesn't illustrate it very well as it has been oversimplified. The A194 and A1 are the Northern and Western boundaries. Seven Houses/Waterview Park is the Eastern and the Southern is roughly a straight line between the roundabout at the bottom of Mount Pleasant across to the A1 at the County Durham/Tyne & Wear border. I have seen internal memos regarding the new zones, I assume that these will be released very shortly in a public friendly version (unless they have already and I've missed them).
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(09 Sep 2020, 1:10 am)6049 wrote [ -> ]Washington's boundaries are relatively well defined due to the services which operate through the boundaries however, I agree that that map doesn't illustrate it very well as it has been oversimplified. The A194 and A1 are the Northern and Western boundaries. Seven Houses/Waterview Park is the Eastern and the Southern is roughly a straight line between the roundabout at the bottom of Mount Pleasant across to the A1 at the County Durham/Tyne & Wear border. I have seen internal memos regarding the new zones, I assume that these will be released very shortly in a public friendly version (unless they have already and I've missed them).
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That Mount Pleasant boundary is an interesting one.
Prior to the boundary, there's two stops in Mount Pleasant northbound.
There's a southbound Mount Pleasant stop beyond the boundary too.
Wouldnt it have made sense to have either had the boundary at Fatfield Bridge and exclude Mount Pleasant all together or at the very least, extend it to the bottom of Lambton Terrace to include the three other stops?
(09 Sep 2020, 7:48 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]That Mount Pleasant boundary is an interesting one.
Prior to the boundary, there's two stops in Mount Pleasant northbound.
There's a southbound Mount Pleasant stop beyond the boundary too.
Wouldnt it have made sense to have either had the boundary at Fatfield Bridge and exclude Mount Pleasant all together or at the very least, extend it to the bottom of Lambton Terrace to include the three other stops?
There's two stops northbound, and two southbound. I wonder whether it may be something to do with the postcode. I don't know if I'm right but it may be that Mount Pleasant has a Washington postcode while Penshaw doesn't.
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(09 Sep 2020, 9:31 am)6049 wrote [ -> ]There's two stops northbound, and two southbound. I wonder whether it may be something to do with the postcode. I don't know if I'm right but it may be that Mount Pleasant has a Washington postcode while Penshaw doesn't.
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Washington phone number, classed as district 14 back in the day, but it has a DH4 7xx postcode. Penshaw forms part of the address.
To slap a boundary through the middle of it, seems strange.
(09 Sep 2020, 1:10 am)6049 wrote [ -> ]Washington's boundaries are relatively well defined due to the services which operate through the boundaries however, I agree that that map doesn't illustrate it very well as it has been oversimplified. The A194 and A1 are the Northern and Western boundaries. Seven Houses/Waterview Park is the Eastern and the Southern is roughly a straight line between the roundabout at the bottom of Mount Pleasant across to the A1 at the County Durham/Tyne & Wear border. I have seen internal memos regarding the new zones, I assume that these will be released very shortly in a public friendly version (unless they have already and I've missed them).
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It's interesting, because further to my original post, I noticed that the Go North East app has a different style map. This seems to show the boundary as Fatfield Bridge, which tbh I can see the logic in. I have just contacted GNE to ask the question though, and they've told me the boundary is Penshaw bank top - so I'm even more confused now
![[Image: 2dfbefab43765a7cf7d665a24d4ecf31.jpg]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200909/2dfbefab43765a7cf7d665a24d4ecf31.jpg)
(09 Sep 2020, 10:46 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It's interesting, because further to my original post, I noticed that the Go North East app has a different style map. This seems to show the boundary as Fatfield Bridge, which tbh I can see the logic in. I have just contacted GNE to ask the question though, and they've told me the boundary is Penshaw bank top - so I'm even more confused now
Both Fatfield Bridge and Penshaw Bank Top were fare stages back in the day if I remember right. It would make sense that one of them were used now, rather than a random roundabout in the middle of an estate.
I know it is very simplistic to say bus fares are expensive now and that they have risen well beyond the rate of inflation. Especially when you need to take in to account fuel costs, wage increases and other factors.
However, these two images really slam home how much fares have increased.
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attachment=9596]
[
attachment=9597]
Anyone know how much the same journey costs on the 74 now?
(25 Oct 2020, 12:22 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I know it is very simplistic to say bus fares are expensive now and that they have risen well beyond the rate of inflation. Especially when you need to take in to account fuel costs, wage increases and other factors.
However, these two images really slam home how much fares have increased.
Anyone know how much the same journey costs on the 74 now?
Newcastle to Ponteland is £3.60 single on Go North East's 74 (day ticket £5.30), and £3.50 on Stagecoach's X78 (day ticket £4.70).
(25 Oct 2020, 12:33 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Newcastle to Ponteland is £3.60 single on Go North East's 74 (day ticket £5.30), and £3.50 on Stagecoach's X78 (day ticket £4.70).
Did you hear a big bang just now? Would have been in the distance.
Anyway, it was my jaw hitting the floor in shock.
An increase of more than twice the rate of inflation!
(25 Oct 2020, 12:33 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Newcastle to Ponteland is £3.60 single on Go North East's 74 (day ticket £5.30), and £3.50 on Stagecoach's X78 (day ticket £4.70).
How come Stagecoach's X78 is so much cheaper the Go North East's 74?
Go North East's day ticket is worth more than Stagecoach's as Go North East operate across more of the North East, the single fare should be the same though? a cheaper day ticket for just between Newcastle and Ponteland would be useful too!