North East Buses

(29 Apr 2019, 7:59 am)busmanT wrote [ -> ]Explorer ticket prices are set by Network One, and they increased from yesterday

https://networkonetickets.co.uk/tickets/explorer/

(05 May 2019, 7:24 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019...SApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

Tripped over this via Stuart Maconie tweeting about it.

Stagecoach’s regional UK bus operations reported an operating profit of £122.9m

(06 May 2019, 11:41 am)Multi21 wrote [ -> ]I could be wrong but I'm sure arriva machines haven't been changed in regards to the explorers... I issued one on Friday for 10.50. I'll check Ticketer when I go in

(06 May 2019, 12:46 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]Yep. I got one for £10.50 again, on Saturday.

http://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/g...ber-379746

Changes to bus ticket pricing for 'young' people.

T&W under 16 POP Card holders are unaffected and can still get 60p/£1.10 tickets.

(30 Aug 2019, 2:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

http://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/g...ber-379746

Changes to bus ticket pricing for 'young' people.

T&W under 16 POP Card holders are unaffected and can still get 60p/£1.10 tickets.

Bringing the missing aged 19+ passengers back in to the correct fare range, rather than the current U18 (no ID needed) arrangement.

(30 Aug 2019, 2:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

http://newsroom.gonortheast.co.uk/news/g...ber-379746

Changes to bus ticket pricing for 'young' people.

T&W under 16 POP Card holders are unaffected and can still get 60p/£1.10 tickets.

Double the price now for kids without, not very nice for families living in County Durham that have no other choice, and now slapped with a 20% fare increase.

(30 Aug 2019, 5:31 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]

Double the price now for kids without, not very nice for families living in County Durham that have no other choice, and now slapped with a 20% fare increase.

That's not really the fault of GNE though, Durham Council don't seem to have any interest in subsidising bus travel for young people.

Even as an adult, travelling regularly in both DCC and Nexus areas is expensive, as there isn't a ticket that covers both areas except from the Network One Explorer which is £10.90 a day!

(30 Aug 2019, 5:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]

That's not really the fault of GNE though, Durham Council don't seem to have any interest in subsidising bus travel for young people.

Even as an adult, travelling regularly in both DCC and Nexus areas is expensive, as there isn't a ticket that covers both areas except from the Network One Explorer which is £10.90 a day!

There's plenty of ways and means to reduce the costs for families.

Marketing innit?

(30 Aug 2019, 6:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

There's plenty of ways and means to reduce the costs for families.

Marketing innit?

Sure, I was just saying it's not really GNE's fault that it costs more in Durham, because the reason it's so cheap in T&W is because of their subsidies.

The issue I see is that with a family ticket, you have to be travelling with a child, but once your kids start school, you'll be spending most of the day travelling without them so you have to buy individual tickets.

I wonder if they could do a 'school run' ticket, where between say 7-9am and 3-5pm you can travel with a child on that same ticket

(30 Aug 2019, 7:36 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]

Sure, I was just saying it's not really GNE's fault that it costs more in Durham, because the reason it's so cheap in T&W is because of their subsidies.

The issue I see is that with a family ticket, you have to be travelling with a child, but once your kids start school, you'll be spending most of the day travelling without them so you have to buy individual tickets.

I wonder if they could do a 'school run' ticket, where between say 7-9am and 3-5pm you can travel with a child on that same ticket

But they can make it as cheap as T&W. They (and others) choose not to.

They could reduce fares. They could introduce packages like the one you mention.

They don't. They make the conscious decision not to and to penalise parents for happening to live in the likes of a DH postcode.

Nexus (to their credit), subsidise services in T&W, but operators still muddy the waters by offering more expensive alternatives.

They don't need to do that. They make the conscious decision to do that though.

(30 Aug 2019, 7:53 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

But they can make it as cheap as T&W. They (and others) choose not to.

They could reduce fares. They could introduce packages like the one you mention.

They don't. They make the conscious decision not to and to penalise parents for happening to live in the likes of a DH postcode.

Nexus (to their credit), subsidise services in T&W, but operators still muddy the waters by offering more expensive alternatives.

They don't need to do that. They make the conscious decision to do that though.

I personally think the problem is Nexus have subsidised the ticket prices too much. £1.10 for a day ticket to travel on any bus or Metro in Tyne and Wear is extraordinary cheap.

Then when they are no longer eligible for that ticket, and have to pay for an adult ticket, they look at the prices and think 'bloody hell, what a rip off, public transport is expensive!', because that's exactly what happened to me.

To me, the fact that GNE allow someone to travel nearly 30 miles on the X21 for only £1.20 is great. Sure, for the short trips it may not be exceptional value, but if you're going out for the day, £4.50 isn't a lot to spend.

Plus, what you also have to remember is County Durham is very spread out in comparison to T&W, so you end up travelling further than you would if you lived in T&W, so naturally things will cost more

(30 Aug 2019, 9:05 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]

I personally think the problem is Nexus have subsidised the ticket prices too much. £1.10 for a day ticket to travel on any bus or Metro in Tyne and Wear is extraordinary cheap.

Then when they are no longer eligible for that ticket, and have to pay for an adult ticket, they look at the prices and think 'bloody hell, what a rip off, public transport is expensive!', because that's exactly what happened to me.

To me, the fact that GNE allow someone to travel nearly 30 miles on the X21 for only £1.20 is great. Sure, for the short trips it may not be exceptional value, but if you're going out for the day, £4.50 isn't a lot to spend.

Plus, what you also have to remember is County Durham is very spread out in comparison to T&W, so you end up travelling further than you would if you lived in T&W, so naturally things will cost more

Back in 1986, a T&W kids fare was 5p. Based on inflation, that should equate to approx 14p now. A day ticket is nearly ten times that.

Subsidised too much? Really?

(30 Aug 2019, 5:31 pm)deanmachine wrote [ -> ]

Double the price now for kids without, not very nice for families living in County Durham that have no other choice, and now slapped with a 20% fare increase.

Still cheaper than arriva for anything other than a short hop

(30 Aug 2019, 10:09 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

Back in 1986, a T&W kids fare was 5p. Based on inflation, that should equate to approx 14p now. A day ticket is nearly ten times that.

Subsidised too much? Really?

Yes, really. The fact is that all bus fares cost more now, and the fact that an equivalent adult ticket costs 7 times more than the Nexus subsidised child day ticket says that it is subsidised too much.

Like I said before, if you're used to getting around for £1.10 a day and then your POP card expires and suddenly it costs you £7.80 (assuming you want an equivalent day ticket), rather than thinking you've been using the bus at a really subsidised rate, you're going to think that they've put the prices up for you, and it's going to put you off using the bus

(01 Sep 2019, 12:21 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]

Yes, really. The fact is that all bus fares cost more now, and the fact that an equivalent adult ticket costs 7 times more than the Nexus subsidised child day ticket says that it is subsidised too much.

Like I said before, if you're used to getting around for £1.10 a day and then your POP card expires and suddenly it costs you £7.80 (assuming you want an equivalent day ticket), rather than thinking you've been using the bus at a really subsidised rate, you're going to think that they've put the prices up for you, and it's going to put you off using the bus

Really?

So kids day tickets are 10x the price of inflation and adults tickets are more than that. Increasing above inflation on a regular basis.

Is it not that the adult prices are too high? Unless of course, there is some sort of competition on a certain corridor.

Distorting the jump perhaps?

That increase in adult fares, may be the reason passenger numbers are dropping and the reason GNE have increased the age allowance for cheaper tickets...

Article Link

(01 Sep 2019, 2:05 pm)Rob44 wrote [ -> ]Got to say maybe its adult prices that are to steep and the young persons/children's fare are about the correct level?

It goes without saying, that above inflation fare increases since 1986, are going to lead to disproportionately high fares. The correlation between higher fares and lower passenger numbers must be significant.

The link in my post above isn't working, but there are some interesting graphs and charts to look at within the document. A quick Google search might bring it up. I've taken a couple of screenshots.

It's a few years old, but I can't see there being too much change.

(01 Sep 2019, 4:02 pm)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]I do agree that the prices are a bit higher than they should be, but in comparison to other modes of transport I think they're perfectly reasonable.
I know it's basically the same price for me to take the car as it would be to take the bus just based on the price of fuel alone, once you start adding the cost of the car and insurance etc. even with GNE's 'high' prices, it's still cheaper. Granted, most of my journeys are the full length of the X21 route so it's not completely representative.

I've just done a bit of quick maths in Excel, taking into account the cost of purchasing the bus and spread it out over 15 years, the cost of the driver at £10 per hour, and the cost of fuel at £1.25 per litre. I 'calculated' the X21, 21 and X66 just to give a rough idea of both long and short routes
Obviously the numbers are VERY rough (and I'm making a lot of assumptions), and they don't include the cost of running depots, maintenance, customer service etc, but it's still quite interesting

For the X21, I came up with cost per passenger of around 95p if we assume that there's an average of 50 passengers per journey

For the 21, I got around 50p if we again assume an average of 50 passengers per journey

For the X66, I got around 10p if we assume an average of 35 passengers per journey


Obviously without knowing any of the actual figures, all I'm doing is speculating, but I feel I'm being fairly conservative with the figures, but I could also be completely wrong

I'm paying £1.25 pl at Costco for my diesel! That's cheaper than most places.

I imagine the big perators would baulk at paying that sort of price, especially as they hedge their prices and buy a significant amount of it!

GNE did publish their prices on the shareholder website. Not sure if they still do.

I do get the point you're trying to make though. Pretty sure someone did publish the costs per mile of operating a bus in service at some point on here.

Someone may be able to dig it out.

In one of the screenshots above, there's mention of how the T&W day ticket increased bums on seats by a million within the first few months of the scheme being introduced.

Quite a few more bums and quite a few more quid in the pot.

Imagine if adult fares were reduced... The numbers of bums on seats could be increased massively! Especially for those elastic customers on the demand curve.

The inelastic ones obviously benefit too.

(01 Sep 2019, 6:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]

I'm paying £1.25 pl at Costco for my diesel! That's cheaper than most places.

I imagine the big perators would baulk at paying that sort of price, especially as they hedge their prices and buy a significant amount of it!

GNE did publish their prices on the shareholder website. Not sure if they still do.

I do get the point you're trying to make though. Pretty sure someone did publish the costs per mile of operating a bus in service at some point on here.

Someone may be able to dig it out.

In one of the screenshots above, there's mention of how the T&W day ticket increased bums on seats by a million within the first few months of the scheme being introduced.

Quite a few more bums and quite a few more quid in the pot.

Imagine if adult fares were reduced... The numbers of bums on seats could be increased massively! Especially for those elastic customers on the demand curve.

The inelastic ones obviously benefit too.

For me, travelling by bus is way cheaper than it would be in a car, especially with the distance I travel. I pay less for my bus pass than my friends pay for their insurance alone. Sure, it's not as convenient, but if you plan ahead (which I'm particularly bad at), it's not really an issue. Plus, if I need to I can always just get a lift.

The thing is, I'm not necessarily sure they want to increase the number of passengers massively. There is definitely margin to lower prices, but with more passengers comes more vehicles, and drivers, and larger depots and the costs can soon skyrocket.

I think what they've done is set the prices at a specific rate to steadily increase passengers, which is better for shareholders, because if suddenly everyone travels by bus, there's no more room for growth so investors aren't interested.

Whilst i agree that using a car will work out more expensive in the short term what about situations where you need to get somewhere quick ( like a hospital A&e), pick up the daughter from a club in the town at 1 in the morning, travel to a destination that's 5 miles and 10 minutes drive away but takes 15 miles travel on the bus and due to poor connections takes almost an hour and finally getting to work when buses don't start till after 9am ( Sunday) or at all ( Christmas, boxing and new years day)? imagine paying for taxi's for all those journeys.


For me, as i've said before its no good bus travel costing the same or slightly cheaper. It needs to be a lot cheaper ..... but reading the above Im now tending to agree with Streetdeck fan... i'm not sure they want a load more passengers for the reasons above.

Something else that just come to mind. Can anyone remember when petrol was rocketing in price, would have been the late 90's early 00' i think. I was on an arriva bust and they had put signs up saying how sorry they were having to put up tickets for the 3rd time that year? Anyway i was just wondering if anyone's ticket had come down in price when petrol fell ike a stone? No? Me neither