(01 Dec 2016, 8:45 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]It appears Bridget Phillipson is now involved in the GNE price increase debate, after being informed of it by constituents.
For once i'm happy to see her name mentioned hahahah
Na, it's wrong how GNE done it though, posters up a day before they changed....
(04 Dec 2016, 3:07 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]For once i'm happy to see her name mentioned hahahah
Na, it's wrong how GNE done it though, posters up a day before they changed....
It was calculated and deceitful. Appalling customer service from a monopoly. If is was any other business the Competition and Markets Authority would be on it.
Some friends of mine visited Durham with me today. From Newcastle they paid Six pound return.
I paid the same from birtley. If I'd have walked a few hundred yards to the next stop it's One pound twenty cheaper.
It's absolutely criminal the pricing on routes. I wish someone would give them some competition to at least make them sit up and listen. When it's cheaper to drive, there's a problem
(04 Dec 2016, 6:45 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]It was calculated and deceitful. Appalling customer service from a monopoly. If is was any other business the Competition and Markets Authority would be on it.
Some friends of mine visited Durham with me today. From Newcastle they paid Six pound return.
I paid the same from birtley. If I'd have walked a few hundred yards to the next stop it's One pound twenty cheaper.
It's absolutely criminal the pricing on routes. I wish someone would give them some competition to at least make them sit up and listen. When it's cheaper to drive, there's a problem
Ye, but that's because of the buzzfares, well according to them.
The whole buzzfare zones/prices need reviewing.
Hylton Retail park to Park lane is £1.85 but if i walk up to the Queen Alexandrea bridge North side its £1.45 from where i get on it's 2 stops from the bridge....
How does that work?
40p difference, i rarely get single tickets but thought i would share haha
(04 Dec 2016, 6:45 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]It was calculated and deceitful. Appalling customer service from a monopoly. If is was any other business the Competition and Markets Authority would be on it.
Some friends of mine visited Durham with me today. From Newcastle they paid Six pound return.
I paid the same from birtley. If I'd have walked a few hundred yards to the next stop it's One pound twenty cheaper.
It's absolutely criminal the pricing on routes. I wish someone would give them some competition to at least make them sit up and listen. When it's cheaper to drive, there's a problem
Fare increases on the quiet is the norm in Gtr. Manchester, if only because depot staff are slow in putting up notices in buses.
As for being cheaper to drive - how much is petrol and parking in the North East? Its virtually impossible for bus fares to be cheaper than driving in GM unless you do 75+ miles a week on the bus or work in Manchester itself and your employer doesn't provide free parking. Certainly, you can't compare Newcastle to Durham with any bus services here as the longest routes left are about 12 miles*
*excluding composite routes like the 22 (Stockport to Bolton) which takes up to 3 hours end to end.
(04 Dec 2016, 6:45 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]It was calculated and deceitful. Appalling customer service from a monopoly. If is was any other business the Competition and Markets Authority would be on it.
Some friends of mine visited Durham with me today. From Newcastle they paid Six pound return.
I paid the same from birtley. If I'd have walked a few hundred yards to the next stop it's One pound twenty cheaper.
It's absolutely criminal the pricing on routes. I wish someone would give them some competition to at least make them sit up and listen. When it's cheaper to drive, there's a problem
£3.50 return Low Fell - Newcastle ANE.
£3.90 for the equivalent GNE service.
I would say passengers are paying for frequency, but even this morning there were 21's running in pairs.
(04 Dec 2016, 8:03 pm)Tamesider wrote [ -> ]Fare increases on the quiet is the norm in Gtr. Manchester, if only because depot staff are slow in putting up notices in buses.
As for being cheaper to drive - how much is petrol and parking in the North East? Its virtually impossible for bus fares to be cheaper than driving in GM unless you do 75+ miles a week on the bus or work in Manchester itself and your employer doesn't provide free parking. Certainly, you can't compare Newcastle to Durham with any bus services here as the longest routes left are about 12 miles*
*excluding composite routes like the 22 (Stockport to Bolton) which takes up to 3 hours end to end.
It takes seconds to stick an update on social media. It takes away the reliance on the depot staff to add posters to vehicles too.
Just had my first experience on the 20 since the price increase. It's also my first trip on a bus since last week.
There was a poster on the bus, located on the drivers cab door. I didn't notice it until I was sat down.
No longer will you see any moaning about the extortionate £4.10 fare from Durham - Houghton. It is now £4.20.
(04 Dec 2016, 3:07 pm)Michael wrote [ -> ]For once i'm happy to see her name mentioned hahahah
Na, it's wrong how GNE done it though, posters up a day before they changed....
I will see if I can find a link from the Transport briefing she attended. There's some links to Hansard and the usual brush-off response from the Tory stand-in.
(04 Dec 2016, 8:59 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]£3.50 return Low Fell - Newcastle ANE.
£3.90 for the equivalent GNE service.
I would say passengers are paying for frequency, but even this morning there were 21's running in pairs.
It takes seconds to stick an update on social media. It takes away the reliance on the depot staff to add posters to vehicles too.
Not everyone is on social media!!! This comment is timely because a certain other company in GM seems to have withdrawn Bus Station supervision in the city centre, and on a least one occasion last week, passengers were left high and dry because the company stopped crossing the city on a route serving the region's biggest hospital, due to congestion. Understandably irate passengers, who had probably missed Outpatients appointments or visiting sick relatives, took their anger out on TFGM staff who knew nothing about what was going on. The bus company's attitude was that they informed passengers on Twitter.
Your reply has gone funny again.
Totally agree that not everyone has Twitter. A proportion of the customer base do though and I'm not sure having a proportion know about the changes, is worse than everyone waiting for posters to be displayed.
I have no idea why the decision was made like it was and passengers had no idea bus fares had increased. It's not acceptable at all. Passengers need to know well in advance and they should be informed by whatever means possible.
The train operators have notified their passengers in advance, via the media, social media etc. Possibly because they have to.
Maybe bus operators should be forced too.
Always an interesting read. Just search for 'pricing' to see OFT comments.
Seems GNE are freezing fares on routes where there are no competition.
Fares between Howdon and Newcastle on the 1/11 haven't gone up at all. Still £1.50/£2.40 in these areas (despite the fare finder showing £2.85 which is not correct at all). Wonder why...?
(05 Dec 2016, 6:43 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Seems GNE are freezing fares on routes where there are no competition.
Fares between Howdon and Newcastle on the 1/11 haven't gone up at all. Still £1.50/£2.40 in these areas (despite the fare finder showing £2.85 which is not correct at all). Wonder why...?
How does that compare with the Metro?
(05 Dec 2016, 6:47 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]How does that compare with the Metro?
Metro is £2.60/£3.90 whereas the 1/11 is £2.40/£3.60 so not a massive difference really.
Though for weekly tickets from Howdon/Wallsend it is £15.50 for a week but on the 1/11 from Howdon is is £13.35 or Wallsend (also on the Q3 and valid to Metrocentre) it is £11.65 so quite a bit cheaper for weekly tickets.
(05 Dec 2016, 6:43 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Seems GNE are freezing fares on routes where there are no competition.
Fares between Howdon and Newcastle on the 1/11 haven't gone up at all. Still £1.50/£2.40 in these areas (despite the fare finder showing £2.85 which is not correct at all). Wonder why...?
Only some adult single/return fares went up - this was standard across the patch:
Singles:
Frozen:-
60p, £1.00, £1.25, £1.50, £2.00, £2.20, £2.40, £2.50, £2.60, £3.00, £3.70, £4.00 and £5.00
Increased by 5p:-
£1.10, £1.20, £1.35, £1.40, £1.60, £1.75, £1.80, £1.95, £2.10, £2.70, £2.80, £3.20, £3.30, £3.50, £3.80 and £3.95
Increased by 10p:-
£4.10, £4.50, £4.60 and £4.80
(05 Dec 2016, 6:53 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Metro is £2.60/£3.90 whereas the 1/11 is £2.40/£3.60 so not a massive difference really.
Though for weekly tickets from Howdon/Wallsend it is £15.50 for a week but on the 1/11 from Howdon is is £13.35 or Wallsend (also on the Q3 and valid to Metrocentre) it is £11.65 so quite a bit cheaper for weekly tickets.
So even a small change could alter the whole dynamics of a commuters travel habits. I am guessing that's why the weekly tickets are priced like that.
(05 Dec 2016, 7:00 pm)Dan wrote [ -> ]Only some adult single/return fares went up - this was standard across the patch:
Singles:
Frozen:-
60p, £1.00, £1.25, £1.50, £2.00, £2.20, £2.40, £2.50, £2.60, £3.00, £3.70, £4.00 and £5.00
Increased by 5p:-
£1.10, £1.20, £1.35, £1.40, £1.60, £1.75, £1.80, £1.95, £2.10, £2.70, £2.80, £3.20, £3.30, £3.50, £3.80 and £3.95
Increased by 10p:-
£4.10, £4.50, £4.60 and £4.80
Ah right thank you, I thought it was all of them that has increased.
(05 Dec 2016, 6:53 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]but on the 1/11 from Howdon is is £13.35 or Wallsend (also on the Q3 and valid to Metrocentre) it is £11.65 so quite a bit cheaper for weekly tickets.
Never heard of the £11.65 ticket or the £13.35 one.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
Just been checking out fares on the 20 and compared them to the 50.
The full journeys are quite amazing!
(05 Dec 2016, 7:32 pm)MVK 500R wrote [ -> ]Never heard of the £11.65 ticket or the £13.35 one.
Sent from my E6853 using Tapatalk
Sorry I mean £13.15 - I'm getting confused with Stagecoach.
£11.65 is a Newcastle/Metrocentre one which I believe you can use on the 1/11 between Wallsend and Newcastle, and you can definitely use on the full route of the Q3.
(05 Dec 2016, 7:08 pm)Tom wrote [ -> ]Ah right thank you, I thought it was all of them that has increased.
Still most of them, rather than 'some'.
Concessionary Travel Arrangements over the Christmas Period
06 Dec 2016
Between Monday 26 December 2016 and Monday 2 January 2017, inclusive, it has been decided that Stagecoach North East OAP and Disabled Concessionary passes will be valid for use as outlined below.
Due to the Christmas period and the grouping of the public holidays, OAP and Disabled Concessionary pass holders will be entitled to free travel "ALL DAY" on local bus services within the Tyne and Wear region on presentation of their valid concessionary travel pass.
This entitlement will include journeys made before 09:30hrs, between Monday 26 December 2016 and Monday 2 January 2017 (inclusive).
For more information please visit
http://www.nexus.org.uk.
Now I think this price difference is a bit too much
X1 Gateshead to QE Hospital £2.15 single or £4.00 return.
X25 Gateshead to QE Hospital £1.50 single or £2.90 return.
Same operator same express route same limited stop point .
This needs to be investigated by BBC Rip off Britain
(07 Jan 2017, 8:35 am)ifm001 wrote [ -> ]Now I think this price difference is a bit too much
X1 Gateshead to QE Hospital £2.15 single or £4.00 return.
X25 Gateshead to QE Hospital £1.50 single or £2.90 return.
Same operator same express route same limited stop point .
This needs to be investigated by BBC Rip off Britain
In years gone by, it was common practice for Go North East to have higher prices on its 'Gold Standard' routes, especially on shared corridors with other Go North East services. I think that the idea was that customers would pay the premium for a premium service.
As time has gone by, services which weren't originally 'Gold Standard' have been upgraded to that specification or better (ie Fab Fifty Six), so is no longer relevant and I think it was planned to have the fares standardised. The online fare calculator may suggest that this hasn't happened (yet), or I could be wrong.
Historically, these price differences have also been used as a ploy to get customers from one service and onto another. I am not sure whether it applies in this instance, but I recall a price cull on what presently operates as Coaster service 1 between Gateshead and Wrekenton, with this being heavily promoted in order to reduce passenger numbers on the Angel 21 and increase passenger numbers on the indirect service operating via Allerdene etc. I am inclined to suggest that the Angel was operating with the OmniCitys at the time, as this is when the service suffered with overcrowding issues.
I don't think it needs investigation by a third party. Go North East can charge whatever they like for customers to use their service. It was perhaps more of an issue in the past, but Go North East is now open and honest about its fares (they're available on the website's fare calculator and Customer Services can also provide this information on Social Media or by e-mail/phone etc). The price being different between two different services on a shared corridor is comparable to a supermarket selling its own brand bread cheaper than a premium brand of bread - a lot of people still opt for the premium brand of bread despite it still being bread.
I started write this post earlier, but error messages kept popping up.
After a long week at work and a brain turning to mush, I decided to think about the Purple Streetlites and do a little maths to unwind.
My dislike of the fares on the 20 have been well documented both before the latest price increase and since.
However, I thought it was worth doing a little breakdown of the fares, rather than just comment or talk about percentage increases following a few trips on the 20 this week.
Just to put a little background on it, the majority of my trips on the 20 are when I am travelling to and from a railway station (Sunderland or Durham).
As the majority of my trips on rail are longer than a day, it means I buy expensive single tickets.
As an irregular user of public transport (I don't use a bus every day of the week), weekly and monthly tickets aren't usually an attractive offer.
My most regular trip is on the Houghton - Durham section.
A single is £4.20 and a day return £6.00.
According to Bing Maps, the trip on the 20A is 7.9 miles. If we round it up to 8, it gives us a total cost of 0.525p per mile. For a return, 0.375p per mile.
The fares increased (£4.10 single to the current £4.20) since the introduction of the more fuel efficient Streetlites, which receive an enhanced BSOG of 6p per km.
If we convert miles to kilometres, the trip is 12.875km in each direction. That equates to an enhancement of 0.7725p in each direction of my trip.
In pure cash terms, the operator is just under 90p better off per trip than when the previous vehicle allocation was in place.
Obviously this doesn't take in to account any increase or decrease in running costs over the same period.
If BSOG and the enhancement didn't exist, I would hate to think how much the fares would be...
Just to provide some balance to the calculations, I thought it was worth doing some sums for a much longer section of route.
It isn't one I have done since the 20 was extended to Shields, but I understand the need for balance and all that...
The single fare from Houghton to Shields is £4.20. A Day Return is £4.80.
The distance is 12.7 miles (20.439km).
This is 0.33p per mile for a single and 0.18p return.
The BSOG enhancement £1.22 in each direction.
Obviously we don't know the exact reasons the pricing structure is set up the way it is (we could guess), but I thought it was worth sharing.
(04 Feb 2017, 9:40 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]I started write this post earlier, but error messages kept popping up.
After a long week at work and a brain turning to mush, I decided to think about the Purple Streetlites and do a little maths to unwind.
My dislike of the fares on the 20 have been well documented both before the latest price increase and since.
However, I thought it was worth doing a little breakdown of the fares, rather than just comment or talk about percentage increases following a few trips on the 20 this week.
Just to put a little background on it, the majority of my trips on the 20 are when I am travelling to and from a railway station (Sunderland or Durham).
As the majority of my trips on rail are longer than a day, it means I buy expensive single tickets.
As an irregular user of public transport (I don't use a bus every day of the week), weekly and monthly tickets aren't usually an attractive offer.
My most regular trip is on the Houghton - Durham section.
A single is £4.20 and a day return £6.00.
According to Bing Maps, the trip on the 20A is 7.9 miles. If we round it up to 8, it gives us a total cost of 0.525p per mile. For a return, 0.375p per mile.
The fares increased (£4.10 single to the current £4.20) since the introduction of the more fuel efficient Streetlites, which receive an enhanced BSOG of 6p per km.
If we convert miles to kilometres, the trip is 12.875km in each direction. That equates to an enhancement of 0.7725p in each direction of my trip.
In pure cash terms, the operator is just under 90p better off per trip than when the previous vehicle allocation was in place.
Obviously this doesn't take in to account any increase or decrease in running costs over the same period.
If BSOG and the enhancement didn't exist, I would hate to think how much the fares would be...
Just to provide some balance to the calculations, I thought it was worth doing some sums for a much longer section of route.
It isn't one I have done since the 20 was extended to Shields, but I understand the need for balance and all that...
The single fare from Houghton to Shields is £4.20. A Day Return is £4.80.
The distance is 12.7 miles (20.439km).
This is 0.33p per mile for a single and 0.18p return.
The BSOG enhancement £1.22 in each direction.
Obviously we don't know the exact reasons the pricing structure is set up the way it is (we could guess), but I thought it was worth sharing.
Your post prompted me to spend 10 mins on GNE's fare finder to try and establish a pattern across the network. I scrolled through the route list randomly selecting a few routes I'd say GNE have a monopoly on - or at least have very little competition. I've worked out the pence per mile based on the fastest driving route between the two points, as the passenger is paying for the A to B journey. The fact the bus travels more miles via a convoluted route is of benefit to GNE, not the passenger.
X30/6 Stanley-Newcastle = £4.90 = 49p per mile.
X70 Consett-Gateshead = £4.90 = 41p per mile.
4 Galleries-Heworth = £2.85 = 48p per mile.
20 Houghton-Durham = £4.20 = 53p Per mile.
65 Durham-Murton = £4.50 = 45p per mile
I then did the same for routes where there is competition:
306 Newcastle-Whitley Bay = £2.85 = 27p per mile.
20 Sunderland-South Shields = £2.85 = 32p per mile.
X85 Throckley-Newcaslte = £2.15 = 27p per mile.
X9 Middlesbrough-Billingham = £2.60 = 32p per mile.
35 Silksworth-Sunderland = £1.45 = 32p per mile.
It's by no means comprehensive research and there's no comparison to SNE/Arriva/Metro for now. From this small sample, however, there is either an argument to be made for competition working in favour or against the passenger, depending on where you live.
(05 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm)James101 wrote [ -> ]Your post prompted me to spend 10 mins on GNE's fare finder to try and establish a pattern across the network. I scrolled through the route list randomly selecting a few routes I'd say GNE have a monopoly on - or at least have very little competition. I've worked out the pence per mile based on the fastest driving route between the two points, as the passenger is paying for the A to B journey. The fact the bus travels more miles via a convoluted route is of benefit to GNE, not the passenger.
X30/6 Stanley-Newcastle = £4.90 = 49p per mile.
X70 Consett-Gateshead = £4.90 = 41p per mile.
4 Galleries-Heworth = £2.85 = 48p per mile.
20 Houghton-Durham = £4.20 = 53p Per mile.
65 Durham-Murton = £4.50 = 45p per mile
I then did the same for routes where there is competition:
306 Newcastle-Whitley Bay = £2.85 = 27p per mile.
20 Sunderland-South Shields = £2.85 = 32p per mile.
X85 Throckley-Newcaslte = £2.15 = 27p per mile.
X9 Middlesbrough-Billingham = £2.60 = 32p per mile.
35 Silksworth-Sunderland = £1.45 = 32p per mile.
It's by no means comprehensive research and there's no comparison to SNE/Arriva/Metro for now. From this small sample, however, there is either an argument to be made for competition working in favour or against the passenger, depending on where you live.
Just to pick those two routes out. The fare from Houghton - Heworth on the 4 is also £2.85.
This results in a very low pence per mile rate.
It is interesting to see the 20 between Shields and Sunderland incur a very similar cost per mile as Shields and Houghton. Obviously this increases considerably elsewhere. Given a chance later on (unless someone beats me to it), I will work out the cost per mile between Sunderland and Houghton - without checking, I think a single fare is £3.40. The 35/36 is higher than the 20 from memory.
There are some interesting fares from the quick check mind.
Interesting stuff. Two things come immediately to mind...
1. Isn't there a danger in conflating an individual passengers' fare per mile with the vehicle's BSOG rate per mile? That is, the BSOG enhancement of 6p/kilometre (about 10p per mile) ought to be divided by the average number of passengers on the vehicle to see the difference the BSOG enhancement makes to each person. In other words, the BSOG enhancement per passenger could well be just fractions of a penny.
2. Its very likely that all these factors (such as average fares paid, ENCTS reimbursement, BSOG and BSOG enhancements, changes to fuel efficiency and maintenance costs, depreciation costs, plus any growth/reduction in passenger numbers) have already been taken into account by the Company as part of its case to justify investing in the new vehicles in the first place - which, all in all, must be quite a complex calculation. For example, a LCEB certified Solo is probably almost twice as fuel efficient as a 12 or 14 year old MPD, and ought to have lower maintenance costs, but the MPD will be fully depreciated while the new Solo will attract depreciation costs.
And, of course, not all costs are 'per mile' - staff costs are 'per hour.' And some buses carry more passengers than others - and sometimes a bus carries more people at some times of the day than at others. That competition exists on some routes probably has more to do with the fact that lots more people travel on those routes, so that the price per person per mile ought to be able to be lower anyway. Routes without competition most likely means that there's simply not enough passengers around for operators to wish to compete.
But all in all, I agree - fares could well be higher if the bus fleet was older, less fuel efficient and more difficult to keep on the road!
(06 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm)eezypeazy wrote [ -> ]That competition exists on some routes probably has more to do with the fact that lots more people travel on those routes, so that the price per person per mile ought to be able to be lower anyway. Routes without competition most likely means that there's simply not enough passengers around for operators to wish to compete.
You'd think so, wouldn't you. Can't speak for the North East, but the big failing of De-reg in Gtr. Manchester is that the areas with high numbers of bus users (ie. non-motorists) have either had the poorest quality of competition (no real fare reductions; competing buses running together - and early! etc) or just no competition at all. Its too late now because these areas are usually in the districts rather than the "regional centre", and the constant cuts eventually manifest themselves in smaller bus stations - so nowhere for new competing services to terminate/park.
I had a ride out to Leigh through Salford last Saturday morning, and there were convoys of First 36/37s and Stagecoach 38s - all charging lower adult fares than the majority of other GM services - flooding in from Walkden, Swinton and through Pendleton Shopping Precinct, and I don't think one bus had more than 12 passengers on.
(06 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm)eezypeazy wrote [ -> ]Interesting stuff. Two things come immediately to mind...
1. Isn't there a danger in conflating an individual passengers' fare per mile with the vehicle's BSOG rate per mile? That is, the BSOG enhancement of 6p/kilometre (about 10p per mile) ought to be divided by the average number of passengers on the vehicle to see the difference the BSOG enhancement makes to each person. In other words, the BSOG enhancement per passenger could well be just fractions of a penny.
2. Its very likely that all these factors (such as average fares paid, ENCTS reimbursement, BSOG and BSOG enhancements, changes to fuel efficiency and maintenance costs, depreciation costs, plus any growth/reduction in passenger numbers) have already been taken into account by the Company as part of its case to justify investing in the new vehicles in the first place - which, all in all, must be quite a complex calculation. For example, a LCEB certified Solo is probably almost twice as fuel efficient as a 12 or 14 year old MPD, and ought to have lower maintenance costs, but the MPD will be fully depreciated while the new Solo will attract depreciation costs.
And, of course, not all costs are 'per mile' - staff costs are 'per hour.' And some buses carry more passengers than others - and sometimes a bus carries more people at some times of the day than at others. That competition exists on some routes probably has more to do with the fact that lots more people travel on those routes, so that the price per person per mile ought to be able to be lower anyway. Routes without competition most likely means that there's simply not enough passengers around for operators to wish to compete.
But all in all, I agree - fares could well be higher if the bus fleet was older, less fuel efficient and more difficult to keep on the road!
Some interesting points eezypeazy.
However if demand in say the 20 is not high enough to warrant competition; why has the frequency been increased, the route extended, the PVR increased and new vehicles purchased? In fact, when you add other GNE routes in to the mix, the frequency on some sections of the route (say between Houghton and Sunderland), is just as good (if not better), than the combined frequency on sections of the route where there is competition...
All when seeing a gradual increase in fares...
If the route wasn't making money, then I am unsure if new vehicles would be authorised.
If load-factors weren't good, then I am sure a reduced frequency would come in to play. Or, if lowering the frequency wasn't an option, smaller vehicles would have been purchased.
Pump priming a route for such a period of time, wouldn't make sense - unless the initial pump had worked.
All when seeing a gradual increase in fares...
You are right when you say driver pay is calculated on an hourly basis. However, it still contributes to the overall cost per mile. You like maths too based on previous comments, so I won't bother going in to the whole Speed, distance, time thing here.
I also won't refer back to the whole 'carving areas up/feeding drivers raw meat' email convo again either, cos that's been done to death.
There were stories yesterday of Ryanair and how lowering their prices, has seen overall group profits drop. Despite the group witnessing their planes having a higher number of bums on seats.
Passengers are loving the new lower prices. Shareholders aren't too keen.
Sorry, Andreos, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
As enthusiasts, we welcome all the improvements in the service that you've listed. As fare payers, we ought to note and rejoice that GNE's fares changes (some went down as well as up recently!) are usually more than 12 months apart (some recently have been changed only after 18 months, and the child fares changes last year were after four and a half years) - the implication being that the Company is doing all it can to limit fares increases (unlike some other companies, and the railways, where annual changes are implemented). Economists teach that changes in prices can cause changes in demand, measured by a thing called 'elasticity', so falling prices might increase demand, and will change the margin earned - which could be to the delight of shareholders.
If GNE can do all that, and invest in the 20, it's beginning to sound like a reasonably well-run outfit...
(08 Feb 2017, 10:33 am)eezypeazy wrote [ -> ]Sorry, Andreos, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there.
As enthusiasts, we welcome all the improvements in the service that you've listed. As fare payers, we ought to note and rejoice that GNE's fares changes (some went down as well as up recently!) are usually more than 12 months apart (some recently have been changed only after 18 months, and the child fares changes last year were after four and a half years) - the implication being that the Company is doing all it can to limit fares increases (unlike some other companies, and the railways, where annual changes are implemented). Economists teach that changes in prices can cause changes in demand, measured by a thing called 'elasticity', so falling prices might increase demand, and will change the margin earned - which could be to the delight of shareholders.
If GNE can do all that, and invest in the 20, it's beginning to sound like a reasonably well-run outfit...
Sorry Eezypeazy, I wasn't trying to make a point. Merely voicing thoughts and musings, based on the points you made in your previous post.
Interesting you mention elasticity. There will be elements of the changes that are inelastic. It won't matter that fares have increased to some. It may be that passengers find the service a necessity and pay whatever they are requested to pay.
I also wonder if rather than being competitive with pricing (they feel they don't need to be or in fact, can't be), they're trying to be competitive in terms of being visually appealing, specifically regarding the quality of the product.
In the case of the vehicles allocated to the 20, it could be said that it is visually more appealing than previously. Whether it is all fur coat and no knickers - is open to debate.
It is also worth bearing in mind that the majority of the costs incurred by an operator are fixed.
Fuel is hedged well in advance (at a very low rate) and obviously is at a lower price now, than previous years. The enhanced BSOG obviously reduces these costs further.
I was going to write another breakdown of fares on the 20, but in the end couldn't be arsed (are they sighs of relief I hear?).
It is a gripe of mine and as my demand for the service is inelastic (I have no choice but to pay the fare charged) - it often feels that venting is a form of therapy.
I suppose it also let's insiders know that not all of their customers are happy with the service too. Whether anything happens, is another matter. It saves me paying for a therapist though!
Anyway, I was reading an old post from March 2015 where there was comment about the high fares on the 20, particularly between Houghton and Durham (who could have posted that comment I wonder?!). The single fare for that trip was £4.00. In less than two years, the fare has risen by almost 5%! Just a year previous, the fare was £3.95. A difference of a whopping 6% in 3 years!
Do salaries increase that much over the same timescale?
Conscious of my posts about the 20 and the need to strike a balance, is there another service (whatever the operator) that has seen such an increase in the same period?