North East Buses

Its Saturday and nothing has been said on GNE about the £1 fare.

Like the Coast Road partnership, they (TNE/NEXUS/operators) have done all the preliminary stuff and not bothered to tell the public in a unified voice. The partnership is a farce.

(06 May 2023, 6:58 pm)nova347 wrote [ -> ]Its Saturday and nothing has been said on GNE about the £1 fare.

The Transport North East £1 fare is available to purchase on Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach buses, but you've only highlighted the lack of promotion from Go North East, when in fact, no operator has openly promoted this.

Both Go North East (https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/TNE-1-pound) and Stagecoach (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:31:50:497) have put something on their websites about this, but the latter is pretty well hidden.

The fact that this is Transport North East's fare suggests they will be the ones leading the marketing and communications, and they too haven't put anything on their website or social media channels recently. It suggests that the operators are needing to wait for Transport North East before putting our their own communications.

Stagecoach have put a poster up on some buses - I'd expect that number to increase over the coming weeks, months, years and millenia. Then consider there was no word to the drivers until Friday (at least at Sunderland), so good luck to the ones on long weekends.

Odd since they're very keen to promote the £2 cap...

(07 May 2023, 5:49 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The Transport North East £1 fare is available to purchase on Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach buses, but you've only highlighted the lack of promotion from Go North East, when in fact, no operator has openly promoted this.

Both Go North East (https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/TNE-1-pound) and Stagecoach (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:31:50:497) have put something on their websites about this, but the latter is pretty well hidden.

The fact that this is Transport North East's fare suggests they will be the ones leading the marketing and communications, and they too haven't put anything on their website or social media channels recently. It suggests that the operators are needing to wait for Transport North East before putting our their own communications.

I did only highlight Go North East as them are they are the ones I use on basically a daily basis.

(07 May 2023, 5:49 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The Transport North East £1 fare is available to purchase on Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach buses, but you've only highlighted the lack of promotion from Go North East, when in fact, no operator has openly promoted this.

Both Go North East (https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/TNE-1-pound) and Stagecoach (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:31:50:497) have put something on their websites about this, but the latter is pretty well hidden.

The fact that this is Transport North East's fare suggests they will be the ones leading the marketing and communications, and they too haven't put anything on their website or social media channels recently. It suggests that the operators are needing to wait for Transport North East before putting our their own communications.

Is only the single tickets avaiable, and not the day ones yet?

(07 May 2023, 10:52 am)nova347 wrote [ -> ]Is only the single tickets avaiable, and not the day ones yet?

Given there’s no reference to the day ticket on either GNE or SNE’s website, I’d suggest that is the case.


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(07 May 2023, 5:49 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The Transport North East £1 fare is available to purchase on Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach buses, but you've only highlighted the lack of promotion from Go North East, when in fact, no operator has openly promoted this.

Both Go North East (https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/TNE-1-pound) and Stagecoach (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:31:50:497) have put something on their websites about this, but the latter is pretty well hidden.

The fact that this is Transport North East's fare suggests they will be the ones leading the marketing and communications, and they too haven't put anything on their website or social media channels recently. It suggests that the operators are needing to wait for Transport North East before putting our their own communications. 

Nowt like a bit of joined up, effective partnership work is there? 
Operators and other agencies, working together in a proactive manner, ensuring a seamless roll-out...

(07 May 2023, 10:52 am)nova347 wrote [ -> ]Is only the single tickets avaiable, and not the day ones yet?

Just the £1 under-22 single. The other ones come out later (June I think?).

(07 May 2023, 11:25 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Nowt like a bit of joined up, effective partnership work is there? 
Operators and other agencies, working together in a proactive manner, ensuring a seamless roll-out...

I mean if it's Transport North East's fare, the normal practice would be for them to put a press release out with an embargo date on it. The lack of an article on their own website would suggest they haven't done this?

Half arsed, as usual, when Nexus are involved.

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(06 May 2023, 7:26 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Like the Coast Road partnership, they (TNE/NEXUS/operators) have done all the preliminary stuff and not bothered to tell the public in a unified voice. The partnership is a farce.

Well apart from the part where Arriva is outright ignoring the part where it says they'll allocate Double Deckers on all boards. There's at least 2 boards on the 306/308 being allocated single deckers daily, especially the 6.30 to Newcastle on the 306.

Not that I care mind, as I'd rather they were there than on the Blyth expresses.

(07 May 2023, 2:10 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I mean if it's Transport North East's fare, the normal practice would be for them to put a press release out with an embargo date on it. The lack of an article on their own website would suggest they haven't done this?

Half arsed, as usual, when Nexus are involved.

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It is indeed a Transport North East fare - similar principle to the 60p Nexus single fare with an under 16 POP card.

(07 May 2023, 8:00 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]Well apart from the part where Arriva is outright ignoring the part where it says they'll allocate Double Deckers on all boards. There's at least 2 boards on the 306/308 being allocated single deckers daily, especially the 6.30 to Newcastle on the 306.

Not that I care mind, as I'd rather they were there than on the Blyth expresses.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Funny joke. Say the same about gne. They have been Allocation StreetLite to the 307/309. Can't wait for Dan to come defend here with some excuse of "we have not manu spare decekrs at Percy " oh I do do do wonder why. What's it with everyone defensive of gne yet when it comes to stagecoach & arriva and any other company for that matter. Its always they have done bad

(08 May 2023, 10:06 am)Busu284 wrote [ -> ]Hahahahahahahahahahaha. Funny joke. Say the same about gne. They have been Allocation StreetLite to the 307/309. Can't wait for Dan to come defend here with some excuse of "we have not manu spare decekrs at Percy " oh I do do do wonder why. What's it with everyone defensive of gne yet when it comes to stagecoach & arriva and any other company for that matter. Its always they have done bad

Right on cue, Dan arrives.

There have been very few instances of single-decks being allocated to services 307/309.

This is in stark contrast to Arriva on services 306/308, which have been allocated single-decks on a daily (or near daily) basis.

I think you will find Storx is normally the last person to defend Go North East, and is possibly more critical of Go North East than other operators. Your suggestion that he (and others) are defensive of GNE and not Arriva or Stagecoach is simply incorrect.


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(08 May 2023, 10:36 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]Right on cue, Dan arrives.

There have been very few instances of single-decks being allocated to services 307/309.

This is in stark contrast to Arriva on services 306/308, which have been allocated single-decks on a daily (or near daily) basis.

I think you will find Storx is normally the last person to defend Go North East, and is possibly more critical of Go North East than other operators. Your suggestion that he (and others) are defensive of GNE and not Arriva or Stagecoach is simply incorrect.


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I'd say balanced aka. despise them all as each other.

Can't really fault GNE for this one to be fair, Arriva are blatantly allocating certain boards with singles as it happens every day which isn't an operational mistake. What happens when you don't have enough double deckers and the 306 most the time doesn't need them either. It's better than allocating singles on the X10/X11 which is happening daily aswell lately.

Not sure if the X7/X8/X9 have picked up since the £2 fares but it's noticeable that there's always less than 6 on there aswell lately.

(07 May 2023, 5:49 am)Dan wrote [ -> ]The Transport North East £1 fare is available to purchase on Arriva, Go North East and Stagecoach buses, but you've only highlighted the lack of promotion from Go North East, when in fact, no operator has openly promoted this.

Both Go North East (https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/TNE-1-pound) and Stagecoach (https://www.stagecoachbus.com/service-up...:31:50:497) have put something on their websites about this, but the latter is pretty well hidden.

The fact that this is Transport North East's fare suggests they will be the ones leading the marketing and communications, and they too haven't put anything on their website or social media channels recently. It suggests that the operators are needing to wait for Transport North East before putting our their own communications.

I notice that Transport North East has now launched this:
https://twitter.com/transport_north/stat...1804026880
http://www.transportnortheast.gov.uk/cam...1-or-less/

Go North East are the first operator to then post this on their social media channels and website:
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/pound
https://www.facebook.com/simplyGNE/posts...AwFkU4qZ5l
https://twitter.com/gonortheast/status/1...0663033858

As was always inevitable, the £2 cap on single fares has been extended to 31st October. It will then increase to £2.50 for a further 12 months, which I suspect means we can expect a General Election before the end of October 2024.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65616182

(17 May 2023, 12:33 am)markydh wrote [ -> ]As was always inevitable, the £2 cap on single fares has been extended to 31st October. It will then increase to £2.50 for a further 12 months, which I suspect means we can expect a General Election before the end of October 2024.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65616182

I'm confident they'll call the General Election in May 2024, as they'll want to get back to the Springtime election periods.

As for this fare, and whilst it's good for (some!) customers, it's further down the rabbit hole we go. To run something on a temporary basis, for what will be almost two years at the current point of expiry, creates operators a big problem in my opinion.

If this doesn't get extended beyond that point, or there isn't a better fares formula brought in beforehand, then fares will skyrocket for customers overnight. Whilst I'm sure the Government of the day will step back and wash their hands of it, the operators and local authorities will be left to pick up the pieces.

(17 May 2023, 8:48 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'm confident they'll call the General Election in May 2024, as they'll want to get back to the Springtime election periods.

As for this fare, and whilst it's good for (some!) customers, it's further down the rabbit hole we go. To run something on a temporary basis, for what will be almost two years at the current point of expiry, creates operators a big problem in my opinion.

If this doesn't get extended beyond that point, or there isn't a better fares formula brought in beforehand, then fares will skyrocket for customers overnight. Whilst I'm sure the Government of the day will step back and wash their hands of it, the operators and local authorities will be left to pick up the pieces.

It'll be the same fiasco when they eventually pull the temporary reduced fare offer as when they pulled the temporary benefits increase during the illness.

Extending the deadline is only going to make dealing the problem that much worse, the more time people live with the offer, the more they'll be reliant on it.

(17 May 2023, 9:48 am)streetdeckfan wrote [ -> ]It'll be the same fiasco when they eventually pull the temporary reduced fare offer as when they pulled the temporary benefits increase during the illness.

Extending the deadline is only going to make dealing the problem that much worse, the more time people live with the offer, the more they'll be reliant on it.

Plus if it is lifted in Nov 2024, it won't be Dec 2022's ridiculously high fares it goes back to. It'll be Dec 2024, which I assume they'll have added on two years of high inflation.

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(17 May 2023, 9:51 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Plus if it is lifted in Nov 2024, it won't be Dec 2022's ridiculously high fares it goes back to. It'll be Dec 2024, which I assume they'll have added on two years of high inflation.

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And the age old problem still won't be fixed. 
That's right, the actual network and it working for the passengers convenience/habits, rather than it being to suit the operators.

This sticking plaster approach isn't going to benefit anyone long term.
To use a well known phrase, the entire industry needs a root and branch reform.

(17 May 2023, 9:51 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Plus if it is lifted in Nov 2024, it won't be Dec 2022's ridiculously high fares it goes back to. It'll be Dec 2024, which I assume they'll have added on two years of high inflation.

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Like it or not, fares or subsidy required for fares should actually be far far higher than current or even 2022 levels.

Operators were NOT allowed to raise fares while they were receiving CBSSG despite rising costs and zero ability to grow passengers due to covid restrictions. I believe BRG only allowes for inflationary fare increases.

So there is a black hole now (hence recent service cuts and there will be a bigger one in 2024. You can't partnership or franchise your way our of that

(17 May 2023, 10:22 am)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Like it or not, fares or subsidy required for fares should actually be far far higher than current or even 2022 levels.

Operators were NOT allowed to raise fares while they were receiving CBSSG despite rising costs and zero ability to grow passengers due to covid restrictions. I believe BRG only allowes for inflationary fare increases.

So there is a black hole now (hence recent service cuts and there will be a bigger one in 2024. You can't partnership or franchise your way our of that

I'd be intrigued to know what disaster planning, operators had in place. 
Both precautionary and subsequently, reactionary.

Whether that be to cover finances, operational impact or whatever else. 

The idea of a pandemic or war isn't a new one, but somehow businesses didn't think about, anticapate or plan for these events. Whether global or local.

Would love to know what's going to happen to cover vehicles and infrastructure, if the Tyne was ever to burst it's banks outside Costco.

(17 May 2023, 10:22 am)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]Like it or not, fares or subsidy required for fares should actually be far far higher than current or even 2022 levels.

Operators were NOT allowed to raise fares while they were receiving CBSSG despite rising costs and zero ability to grow passengers due to covid restrictions. I believe BRG only allowes for inflationary fare increases.

So there is a black hole now (hence recent service cuts and there will be a bigger one in 2024. You can't partnership or franchise your way our of that

It's not about 'liking it or not'; it's about doing what is right to actively encourage customers to use buses. Skyrocketing fares will never do that, whether you try and convince yourself it's the answer or not.

As Andreos1 suggested in his post, you've still got the problem of the network not working for customer convenience, instead opting to best suit the operators.

The black hole is not there because of CBSSG and the rules around that. It's there because for the best part of three decades, private companies have failed in a deregulated market to grow bus use.

(17 May 2023, 11:13 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It's not about 'liking it or not'; it's about doing what is right to actively encourage customers to use buses. Skyrocketing fares will never do that, whether you try and convince yourself it's the answer or not.

As Andreos1 suggested in his post, you've still got the problem of the network not working for customer convenience, instead opting to best suit the operators.

The black hole is not there because of CBSSG and the rules around that. It's there because for the best part of three decades, private companies have failed in a deregulated market to grow bus use.

I never said I wanted higher fares. I pointed out where fares should be to cover costs. I am just being honest with myself knowing that to fix the problem of fares there needs to be honesty about how much it costs to run a bus service an how it should be paid for. 

Bottom line is that costs are up to 130% of pre pandemic levels and usage from an effective standing start after lockdown 1 is 85- 90%. That figure doesn't change whoever runs the buses.

(17 May 2023, 12:11 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]I never said I wanted higher fares. I pointed out where fares should be to cover costs. I am just being honest with myself knowing that to fix the problem of fares there needs to be honesty about how much it costs to run a bus service an how it should be paid for. 

Bottom line is that costs are up to 130% of pre pandemic levels and usage from an effective standing start after lockdown 1 is 85- 90%. That figure doesn't change whoever runs the buses.

I never said that you said you wanted higher fares, but you're suggesting it's the solution.

Buses, like other infrastructure, should be better subsidised by the Government. Good quality public transport benefits us all, but with the amount of money we pay into the networks, it should be elected bodies that control them.

All eyes are on Manchester at the moment, but I can see others quickly following suit.

I still don't think buses are the problem it's everything else. People simply don't want to sit on buses going around every nook and cranny

To pick an example Sunderland to Durham to Bishop, 3 major corridors without any form of real express routing. This should be a rail link and would be in pretty much every other European country.

No-one and I mean no-one wants to sit on the 20 or even the X20 between Sunderland and Durham as it simply takes too long so pricing is irrelevant here so use a car. Once you have a car why bother paying extra for public transport at all you've already paid the expensive parts insurance etc.

Unless they invest in rail or metros then buses will always fail. Manchester is not a fair comparison as Metrolink is a strong rapid transport network and if it isn't served by that then there's likely a northern service nearby. It's very different to up here.

(17 May 2023, 12:41 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I never said that you said you wanted higher fares, but you're suggesting it's the solution.

Buses, like other infrastructure, should be better subsidised by the Government. Good quality public transport benefits us all, but with the amount of money we pay into the networks, it should be elected bodies that control them.

All eyes are on Manchester at the moment, but I can see others quickly following suit.

I don't disagree, I just hope those with the power to change things don't end up on the same path as those that we're in charge before 1986.

(17 May 2023, 4:15 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]I still don't think buses are the problem it's everything else. People simply don't want to sit on buses going around every nook and cranny

To pick an example Sunderland to Durham to Bishop, 3 major corridors without any form of real express routing. This should be a rail link and would be in pretty much every other European country.

No-one and I mean no-one wants to sit on the 20 or even the X20 between Sunderland and Durham as it simply takes too long so pricing is irrelevant here so use a car. Once you have a car why bother paying extra for public transport at all you've already paid the expensive parts insurance etc.

Unless they invest in rail or metros then buses will always fail. Manchester is not a fair comparison as Metrolink is a strong rapid transport network and if it isn't served by that then there's likely a northern service nearby. It's very different to up here.

You see i don't agree. I think most passengers will put up with a long route.... its when that route takes EVEN LONGER when they decide to lop routes togeter.  Take the Q£ - when ive been waiting for this bus to the rigg it used to be packed heading towards Gosforth high street but now it goes via Jesmond its definitely not picking up as many passenger, but if it had went that way in the beginning then no one would complain as its the route its always taken.  Same with "new" buses. GNE x-lines - you get used to it, then ex London or 03 plate decker's appear on it and your going to think well this is carp!!  But if those ex London and )£ plate decker's were on from the start you wouldn't complain as you would have nothing to compare them against.