Boxing Day Services

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(22 Sep 2021, 4:45 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

I don't have a grudge against bus drivers (well, not all of them at least!), I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

I'd say the same thing to someone working in a supermarket.

Aye I know what your saying. Personally I think it should be optional though with triple time or whatever they see fit. Obviously they'll never do that though if they could get away with it shareholders can't do that out their pockets. 

There'll always be some who would work if you offered the right pay.
(22 Sep 2021, 5:19 pm)Storx Wrote: Aye I know what your saying. Personally I think it should be optional though with triple time or whatever they see fit. Obviously they'll never do that though if they could get away with it shareholders can't do that out their pockets. 

There'll always be some who would work if you offered the right pay.

I'd imagine there are probably a lot of drivers who would work boxing day just to get away from the family!
(22 Sep 2021, 4:45 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

Are you really so utterly naïve to believe that it is the bus drivers who decide whether a bus service is provided on a Boxing day, or the level of service provided on a Sunday etc?  Is there any evidence that the limited service on a Sunday is anything to do with driver willingness.  Or could it be to do almost entirely with demand and profitability.

As for the statement that Boxing Day is no different to any other bank holiday, I think scores of decades of tradition in this country would demonstrate that this is clap-trap.  It’s like saying Christmas Day is no different to May Bank Holiday. 


(22 Sep 2021, 4:45 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do. 

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.

I'd say the same thing to someone working in a supermarket.

Trying to claim we need 7 day services bank hols included to all places because other ‘service industries’ do the equivalent is also nonsense.  Shops as have already been said operate reduced hours, and in many cases local shops don’t open at all.  Yes the NHS is 24 hours via A&E but have you tried getting a GP appointment on a weekend, or pretty much anything routine.  Have you been in hospital, where they try to discharge as many as possible ahead of weekend and certainly ahead of bank holidays like Christmas and New Year?  I’m not saying there is no need for some level of service but to demonise drivers and suggest they want certain days off when other essential workers don’t is just not grounded in reality – almost all industries that can either close or massively reduce over weekends and bank holidays.  And that includes a good range of service industries.  Other than the entertainment industry I am actually struggling to think which "services" you think are provided to the same level on e.g. Boxing Day than any other day (beyond a skelton level for emergency response etc).
(22 Sep 2021, 5:28 pm)stagecoachbusdepot Wrote: Are you really so utterly naïve to believe that it is the bus drivers who decide whether a bus service is provided on a Boxing day, or the level of service provided on a Sunday etc?  Is there any evidence that the limited service on a Sunday is anything to do with driver willingness.  Or could it be to do almost entirely with demand and profitability.

As for the statement that Boxing Day is no different to any other bank holiday, I think scores of decades of tradition in this country would demonstrate that this is clap-trap.  It’s like saying Christmas Day is no different to May Bank Holiday. 



Trying to claim we need 7 day services bank hols included to all places because other ‘service industries’ do the equivalent is also nonsense.  Shops as have already been said operate reduced hours, and in many cases local shops don’t open at all.  Yes the NHS is 24 hours via A&E but have you tried getting a GP appointment on a weekend, or pretty much anything routine.  Have you been in hospital, where they try to discharge as many as possible ahead of weekend and certainly ahead of bank holidays like Christmas and New Year?  I’m not saying there is no need for some level of service but to demonise drivers and suggest they want certain days off when other essential workers don’t is just not grounded in reality – almost all industries that can either close or massively reduce over weekends and bank holidays.  And that includes a good range of service industries.  Other than the entertainment industry I am actually struggling to think which "services" you think are provided to the same level on e.g. Boxing Day than any other day (beyond a skelton level for emergency response etc).

Have you actually read anything I've said? I never said that it was down to the drivers. I literally said it was down to the operator to keep both sides happy.

I mean, I wasn't going to bring that one up, but yeah, Christmas Day is no different either!

I also never said that they needed to operate a full service, but they need to at least operate their full network, even at a reduced frequency.
(22 Sep 2021, 5:46 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Have you actually read anything I've said? I never said that it was down to the drivers. I literally said it was down to the operator to keep both sides happy.

Yes, unfortuantely.

See below - all of which strongly imply that it is down to the drivers... If that wasn't your intent, maybe you need to modify how you communicate your views?

(22 Sep 2021, 3:57 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: At the end of the day, it works both ways. If they don't want to work the services that passengers want (or need), then they're going to be out of a job altogether.

It's the job of the operator to make sure drivers and passengers are kept happy.

Plus, you have to remember that people have no legal right to bank holidays or Sundays off work. In fact, a lot of companies now have it in their contracts that staff are expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.
(22 Sep 2021, 4:45 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: Actually, they should. Because that's literally their job description! If passengers want a boxing day service, then it should be offered. Boxing day is no different than any other bank holiday.

I don't have a grudge against bus drivers (well, not all of them at least!), I just don't like people who think they should be treated differently because of the job they do

Why should bus drivers be entitled to boxing day off when other 'essential' workers aren't? They were happy to be called an essential worker last year, telling everyone how important their job is. But on boxing day they're just like 'nah, you can live without us'.



(22 Sep 2021, 5:46 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: I mean, I wasn't going to bring that one up, but yeah, Christmas Day is no different either!

Meanwhile, in the real world...

(22 Sep 2021, 5:46 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: I also never said that they needed to operate a full service, but they need to at least operate their full network, even at a reduced frequency.

I likewise didn't mention operating a full service or imply you had.  If you, in your own words, actually read what I said... I said it was nonsense to suggest what you have repeated here, that there needs to be a service 7 days a week including bank hols, to all areas.  The demand just is not there to make it profitable.  If it was profitable, the operators would be running it.  Whether there's a case for a subsidised service is another debate.
I'm a bit bemused reading through this, to be honest. 

If a demand exists, then it would be remiss of any business to ignore that. It is absolute basics in any business that your product/service meets customer demand and expectation, otherwise you end up in a regressive spiral until the point that you have no customers. A pub wouldn't last very long if it only opened Monday to Friday 9am-5pm and shut on bank holidays.

It's really that simple. Attacking each other on here isn't going to change that fact.
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(22 Sep 2021, 6:27 pm)Adrian Wrote: I'm a bit bemused reading through this, to be honest. 

If a demand exists, then it would be remiss of any business to ignore that. It is absolute basics in any business that your product/service meets customer demand and expectation, otherwise you end up in a regressive spiral until the point that you have no customers. A pub wouldn't last very long if it only opened Monday to Friday 9am-5pm and shut on bank holidays.

It's really that simple. Attacking each other on here isn't going to change that fact.

Isn’t the whole domestic bus market currently in a regressive spiral? Speculate to accumulate and all that jazz.
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
(22 Sep 2021, 9:34 pm)Ambassador Wrote: Isn’t the whole domestic bus market currently in a regressive spiral? Speculate to accumulate and all that jazz. 

Only on tables, pleather seats etc.
Everything else (including commercial teams) is stuck in the same progressive spiral as it was 10 years ago and the 10 years prior to that.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(22 Sep 2021, 10:28 pm)Andreos1 Wrote: Only on tables, pleather seats etc.
Everything else (including commercial teams) is stuck in the same progressive spiral as it was 10 years ago and the 10 years prior to that.

I imagine they all work from an office 9-5 (that they drive to no doubt)

The whole industry is stuck. There’s no art of the possible, it’s just a well…we’ve never worked that day and nobody wants to go to insert point A here on a public holiday and we won’t try because…well cause, Dave from Consett wants to go to the club for a few pints and then see the grandkids, and you see he’s a bus driver and he knows best, just like Barbara from Safeway who said nobody would shop on a Sunday,

The North East is an exception to the rule, our drivers would have kittens looking at working patterns outside the region with their  archaic attitude…they even run services on….whisper….New Years Day
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
(22 Sep 2021, 2:33 pm)Ambassador Wrote: But still one of your Customers (if you are a driver and if you are, I'd have you out the door as it's an appalling attitude to have towards a Customer)

And let's not pretend bus driving, depsite the challenges, is anything more than an entry level low skilled profession which probably pays less than cold call sales companies and entry level retail (who do work outside the current limited operating hours)

This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)
Pleased to say he's not one of my customers, if he really uses our services and appalling attitude towards a customer, more like calling him out for what he is, a simple keyboard warrior with a grudge.

(22 Sep 2021, 3:38 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: I'm in the data analysis side of market research.
So you are someone who rings up asking if you have 5 mins to spare to answer a few questions?

(22 Sep 2021, 3:57 pm)streetdeckfan Wrote: How nice of you to cut out the context from your quote to fit your agenda.

At the end of the day, it works both ways. If they don't want to work the services that passengers want (or need), then they're going to be out of a job altogether.

It's the job of the operator to make sure drivers and passengers are kept happy.

Plus, you have to remember that people have no legal right to bank holidays or Sundays off work. In fact, a lot of companies now have it in their contracts that staff are expected to work Sundays and bank holidays.

As I said before, people still need to get to work, for a lot of people they're just a normal day, except from the fact that they can't get anywhere using public transport!
Later buses and 24 hour services recently introduced, drivers more than happy to do them for no extra in the pay packet. You really are not helping your cause. Did you apply to work for gne and get knocked back, hence the pure hatred towards drivers?

(22 Sep 2021, 2:33 pm)Ambassador Wrote: This mentality of Monday to Friday in the industry along with rigid service patterns is exactly why the industry is on its arse. It's filled with archaic attitudes and any forward thinking has the life sucked out of it by a minority of souless drivers who don't give a toss about the people who pay their wages (the company and its passengers)
As said above, more late night services, 24 hour buses, do amazon give an enhanced rate for night shift working?, yes they do but drivers don't and simply get on with the job. The industry isn't on its arse, but it would be if we were left in yours and keyboard warriors hands.
(23 Sep 2021, 12:01 am)Stanleyone Wrote: Pleased to say he's not one of my customers, if he really uses our services and appalling attitude towards a customer, more like calling him out for what he is, a simple keyboard warrior with a grudge.

So you are someone who rings up asking if you have 5 mins to spare to answer a few questions?

Later buses and 24 hour services recently introduced, drivers more than happy to do them for no extra in the pay packet. You really are not helping your cause. Did you apply to work for gne and get knocked back, hence the pure hatred towards drivers?

As said above, more late night services, 24 hour buses, do amazon give an enhanced rate for night shift working?, yes they do but drivers don't and simply get on with the job. The industry isn't on its arse, but it would be if we were left in yours and keyboard warriors hands.
Interesting debate. I conclude that StreetDeckFan’s login had been hacked by some Right wing Adam Smith type extremist , or he is simply an idiot.
It would really benefit quite a few people I know if there was some sort of skeleton service on CD and NYD.

I think now in the 21st century to the majority of businesses bank Holidays are normal days.
Moderation: We're always reluctant to stop or prevent debate, ban certain topics, remove posts and so on, but the name calling and personal attacks need to stop.

Debate needs to remain reasonable. All posters are never going to always agree, so its important to acknowledge the need to agree to disagree from time to time.

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I've driven buses for over 20 years now and it'll be a cold day in Hell before I work Boxing or New Years day.
(23 Sep 2021, 8:43 pm)Driver9*** Wrote: I've driven buses for over 20 years now and it'll be a cold day in Hell before I work Boxing or New Years day.

You seem a real customer service orientated professional… I would hope there’s plenty of more forward thinking recruits who would work, especially Boxing Day.

I’d hope they aren’t planning to run Sunday services on the Monday and Tuesday substitute Bank Hols. 

The lack of provision in public transport on NYD in this region is staggering to me. Boxing Day will no doubt happen, sure us tax payers will continue to keep the industry afloat.
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
(23 Sep 2021, 8:43 pm)Driver9*** Wrote: I've driven buses for over 20 years now and it'll be a cold day in Hell before I work Boxing or New Years day.

Out of interest, do you do anything on Boxing Day, or is it just that you've always had boxing day off - so the principal of it? 

I've only had to work two Boxing days and one Christmas Day in the past 15 years personally, but that's because there's no demand from our clients under normal circumstances, so I have to admit I don't understand the needing to have that specific day off. If I could have my bank holidays rolled up in to leave, I'd probably opt for that instead, and have flexibility of when I take the time off.
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(22 Sep 2021, 11:01 pm)Ambassador Wrote: The North East is an exception to the rule, our drivers would have kittens looking at working patterns outside the region with their  archaic attitude…they even run services on….whisper….New Years Day

Pre Covid TfL ran a normal Sunday Service on New Years Day, there was also a increased Night Bus Service above the normal Saturday night bus PVR of 835.

TfL's Boxing Day had a slightly later start but then a normal Sunday service (with no night buses during the night of 25th & 26th)..
(23 Sep 2021, 9:16 pm)Adrian Wrote: Out of interest, do you do anything on Boxing Day, or is it just that you've always had boxing day off - so the principal of it? 

I've only had to work two Boxing days and one Christmas Day in the past 15 years personally, but that's because there's no demand from our clients under normal circumstances, so I have to admit I don't understand the needing to have that specific day off. If I could have my bank holidays rolled up in to leave, I'd probably opt for that instead, and have flexibility of when I take the time off.
Arriva only started running boxing day services a few years ago and there are usually enough volunteers to cover the duties due to the double time pay on offer. Just a matter of time before they class it as a standard BH (£25 one off payment that's your lot, be grateful for that you entry level scum).

(23 Sep 2021, 9:08 pm)Ambassador Wrote: You seem a real customer service orientated professional… I would hope there’s plenty of more forward thinking recruits who would work, especially Boxing Day.

I’d hope they aren’t planning to run Sunday services on the Monday and Tuesday substitute Bank Hols. 

The lack of provision in public transport on NYD in this region is staggering to me. Boxing Day will no doubt happen, sure us tax payers will continue to keep the industry afloat.
Yes I'm sorry about that, especially since bus drivers don't pay tax..........
(23 Sep 2021, 9:05 am)idiot Wrote: It would really benefit quite a few people I know if there was some sort of skeleton service on CD and NYD.

I think now in the 21st century to the majority of businesses bank Holidays are normal days.
Yes it would benefit a few people especially me if I get the move I want however looking at Hartlepool as an example how many people would really use the 7 on Christmas Day to get from Owton Manor to the Headland or the 6 from Clavering to the Fens.  It would be the drivers giving up Christmas Day driving empty buses with maybe one or two people on every second journey. I want better evening services and services in total but Christmas Day would be a complete waste. I would think it be no different in Newcastle either even using a limited amount of single deckers how many people realistically would be wanting to use the bus to get from Wallsend to Walker or where ever very few would use it.    
I do agree a limited service on Boxing Day might work though but they still unlikely to be many people using it then either.
Nexus have issued an invitation to tender for the operation of Boxing Day 2021 bus services.