Enviro 400MMC's for the X9 and X10

249 Replies, 14759 Views

(20 Dec 2021, 12:36 am)Wybus Wrote: If this is true I’m starting to think those union members who were saying that GNE were spending too much money on paint might have a point. We’ve already seen a quick change on the X5/X15 now this.

I’m not sure they’ve really given enough time for stuff to work, either loadings on the X84/X85 or the X9/X10, how long as there really been when buses have been completely normal - no social distancing, no masks, no working from home/distance learning, no general thoughts that people should take leisure travel a bit steady, no shortages of drivers making travel unreliable - I think it’s amounted to a few days! 

Glad I'm not the only one to think that! They're not the only services either.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(20 Dec 2021, 12:58 am)L469 YVK Wrote: All this stemmed from was the need to divert StreetDecks to Oxford.

If COVID never happened, the X9/X10 would've got new deckers with B5TLs ending up on the X84/X85.

It was the quantity of E400MMCs ordered with 4x left over after reallocation of the rest from Washington to Consett that led to their allocation on the X84/X85 to foll the void. Things have changed since then though.
Some Questions 
- What is happening with X84/5 (fleet allocation) ?
- What will the X9/10 get allocation wise?
- What will happen to the coaches
- Is GNE getting anything from other operators.

(20 Dec 2021, 1:00 am)Andreos1 Wrote: Glad I'm not the only one to think that! They're not the only services either.
21 is another prime example ussed to be every 15 mins to Durham, now eveery 30 mins.
Why didn't they just brand some Levantes for the X9/X10?
That way they could have saved face by keeping coaches on, I mean it's not as if they haven't been running since day one anyway!

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(20 Dec 2021, 1:13 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: Why didn't they just brand some Levantes for the X9/X10?
That way they could have saved face by keeping coaches on, I mean it's not as if they haven't been running since day one anyway!

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Some days, if not most you had more of a chance of getting a levante than a branded vehicle
(20 Dec 2021, 12:36 am)Wybus Wrote: If this is true I’m starting to think those union members who were saying that GNE were spending too much money on paint might have a point. We’ve already seen a quick change on the X5/X15 now this.

I’m not sure they’ve really given enough time for stuff to work, either loadings on the X84/X85 or the X9/X10, how long as there really been when buses have been completely normal - no social distancing, no masks, no working from home/distance learning, no general thoughts that people should take leisure travel a bit steady, no shortages of drivers making travel unreliable - I think it’s amounted to a few days!

I dread to think how much they've spent on the coaches, not only in terms of trying to (and failing) to keep them on the road, but also the modifications they made to them such as upseating them

It all seems a bit sus to me, I can't wait to see the way the marketing department spin the downgrade from 'luxury coaches' to bog standard double decker with barely enough headroom.

If anything, in terms of passenger experience, they're even a downgrade from the B5s they had previously!

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X9 withdrawn, X10E to run hourly with PVR of 4, 6352-6355 replacing knackered coaches.

X85 withdrawn, X84 will revert to it’s previous guise of 684, not sure what buses but looks to be Versas.
(20 Dec 2021, 1:32 am)Kramer1 Wrote: X9 withdrawn, X10E to run hourly with PVR of 4, 6352-6355 replacing knackered coaches.

X85 withdrawn, X84 will revert to it’s previous guise of 684, not sure what buses but looks to be Versas.
If that's the case with the X10, then I genuinely can't see why they couldn't just swap out the coaches for 4 Levantes and call it a day.

Why downgrade the X84/X85 at the same time?


I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the X10, and that's why they've added Dalton park to the X1

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(20 Dec 2021, 1:36 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: If that's the case with the X10, then I genuinely can't see why they couldn't just swap out the coaches for 4 Levantes and call it a day.

Why downgrade the X84/X85 at the same time?


I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the X10, and that's why they've added Dalton park to the X1

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Completely anecdotally but the Levantes don't seem much better from what I've seen. They'll also be knackered by this point with their previous career on Nat Ex work.

On MMCs being allocated, I think it's a good move. While 6377 would be a good option, ultimately it's the only 6 cylinder in the fleet and the other StreetDecks would die pretty quickly I'd imagine. I can't speak for GNEs MMCs, but I know ANEs handle express work superbly day in day out, and I've had similar good experiences with various Stagecoach examples on demanding routes.
What's the point in getting all these buses. How long have we had these coaches and no joke. How many days have all 6 been out

Secondly I've said it previously just withdraw the X9 as the X10 does the route on evening & Sundays and tbh most of this year has been the X10 doing both. This is what the 3rd time the X9 is being withdrawn

Versa on the X84/X85 seems a smart idea. Deckers are not needed for that route. But I'm guessing that goes the X Lines brand for Hexham. I don't even think its been a year since the E400MMC on the X84/5 were introduced
(20 Dec 2021, 1:36 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: If that's the case with the X10, then I genuinely can't see why they couldn't just swap out the coaches for 4 Levantes and call it a day.

Why downgrade the X84/X85 at the same time?


I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for the X10, and that's why they've added Dalton park to the X1

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I’m not overly familiar with them but can only assume they’re making no money since covid, X85 is commercial so gets pulled, X84 is secured or at least part secured so hangs on. Surely they only got the upgrade for the planned CAZ as Citaros weren’t suitable.
(20 Dec 2021, 1:41 am)Train8261 Wrote: What's the point in getting all these buses. How long have we had these coaches and no joke. How many days have all 6 been out

Secondly I've said it previously just withdraw the X9 as the X10 does the route on evening & Sundays and tbh most of this year has been the X10 doing both. This is what the 3rd time the X9 is being withdrawn

Versa on the X84/X85 seems a smart idea. Deckers are not needed for that route. But I'm guessing that goes the X Lines brand for Hexham. I don't even think its been a year since the E400MMC on the X84/5 were introduced
I think X84/85 need more higher spec brand new vehicles, like E200 MMC's. 
However X9/X10 for it to be reduced to hourly I think they will reached capacity.
(20 Dec 2021, 1:41 am)mb134 Wrote: Completely anecdotally but the Levantes don't seem much better from what I've seen. They'll also be knackered by this point with their previous career on Nat Ex work.

On MMCs being allocated, I think it's a good move. While 6377 would be a good option, ultimately it's the only 6 cylinder in the fleet and the other StreetDecks would die pretty quickly I'd imagine. I can't speak for GNEs MMCs, but I know ANEs handle express work superbly day in day out, and I've had similar good experiences with various Stagecoach examples on demanding routes.
Don't GNE's have a different gearbox to the ones Arriva use? Or am I just making that up

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(20 Dec 2021, 2:03 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: Don't GNE's have a different gearbox to the ones Arriva use? Or am I just making that up

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Possibly - I know ANEs have Voith boxes, think GNE might have ZF?

From travelling on both though, acceleration seems pretty similar and ultimately it's the same power unit so you'd hope they have similar gearing.
(20 Dec 2021, 2:01 am)Keeiajs Wrote: However X9/X10 for it to be reduced to hourly I think they will reached capacity.

That's my worry too, assuming they are actually basing the decision on passenger numbers and not just talking bull, then as others have rightly said the numbers it has been based on aren't really representative due to all the factors that were brought up.

Let's say passenger numbers pick up on the X10 in the new year, what are they going to do then? They won't have the vehicles to increase the frequency!

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(20 Dec 2021, 2:13 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: That's my worry too, assuming they are actually basing the decision on passenger numbers and not just talking bull, then as others have rightly said the numbers it has been based on aren't really representative due to all the factors that were brought up.

Let's say passenger numbers pick up on the X10 in the new year, what are they going to do then? They won't have the vehicles to increase the frequency!

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Just a thought - realistically services like the 309/310/311 could probably get away with a lower frequency. If the 311, for example, was completely withdrawn would this displace enough B9s to release 3/4 more MMCs to get the TTX PVR back up to what it is now?
(20 Dec 2021, 2:13 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: That's my worry too, assuming they are actually basing the decision on passenger numbers and not just talking bull, then as others have rightly said the numbers it has been based on aren't really representative due to all the factors that were brought up.

Let's say passenger numbers pick up on the X10 in the new year, what are they going to do then? They won't have the vehicles to increase the frequency!

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I think they will, I must sya it seems to have increased passenger numbers, and running it hourly is just going to cause utter chaos. 
Especially if social distancing comes back

(20 Dec 2021, 2:18 am)mb134 Wrote: Just a thought - realistically services like the 309/310/311 could probably get away with a lower frequency. If the 311, for example, was completely withdrawn would this displace enough B9s to release 3/4 more MMCs to get the TTX PVR back up to what it is now?
So is the X9/X10 going to be like the old 42 or the 6/12/12A just gets what spare at that time.
This is just going to be a pain. to find replacements etc
(20 Dec 2021, 2:18 am)mb134 Wrote: Just a thought - realistically services like the 309/310/311 could probably get away with a lower frequency. If the 311, for example, was completely withdrawn would this displace enough B9s to release 3/4 more MMCs to get the TTX PVR back up to what it is now?
Someone finally said it
(20 Dec 2021, 2:01 am)Keeiajs Wrote: I think X84/85 need more higher spec brand new vehicles, like E200 MMC's. 
However X9/X10 for it to be reduced to hourly I think they will reached capacity.
Tbh if the X85 is withdrawn, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to somehow shoehorn the X84 into either interworking or merging with one or more of the Tynedale Links services using Solos/Versa/whatever as currently the journey is roughly 65 minutes which makes things awkward if it were to be standalone.
I wonder how much of an impact taking the X9/X10 out of Eldon Square had to passenger numbers. That could also be another reason for the move back to deckers.

I also can't help but think that the X9/X10 would have done better if it wasn't treated differently ticket wise. I can kind of understand charging extra to get to Middlesbrough, but not even being able to use it to Dalton Park without having to buy a special ticket is stupid

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(20 Dec 2021, 2:31 am)Jimmi Wrote: Tbh if the X85 is withdrawn, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to somehow shoehorn the X84 into either interworking or merging with one or more of the Tynedale Links services using Solos/Versa/whatever as currently the journey is roughly 65 minutes which makes things awkward if it were to be standalone.
If they were to order new buses, I would stick E200's on them, high spec. You would have the route extended to the Metro to add 20 mins, give 20 mins laypver at hexham and newcastle and sorted every 60 mins.

(20 Dec 2021, 2:41 am)streetdeckfan Wrote: I wonder how much of an impact taking the X9/X10 out of Eldon Square had to passenger numbers. That could also be another reason for the move back to deckers.

I also can't help but think that the X9/X10 would have done better if it wasn't treated differently ticket wise. I can kind of understand charging extra to get to Middlesbrough, but not even being able to use it to Dalton Park without having to buy a special ticket is stupid

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I think Eldon Square had a massive effect, I think it has with the 56 aswell,