Changes for Sunderland's Holmeside proposed

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The proposals would create a bus priority route along Holmeside through to Vine Place by creating a gyratory system turning traffic from Holmeside onto Maritime Street.

Proposed improvements Waterloo Street and Athenaeum Street to the south of the railway station will remain one way in an anti clockwise direction joining the gyratory system at the junction of Athenaeum Street with Waterloo Place.
It is proposed to move the existing taxi rank from Athenaeum Street and Waterloo Street onto Brougham Street. This will align with the Sunderland Station redevelopment and place the taxi rank in a location that is easily accessible to customers exiting the new station.

The proposals will improve the public realm to the south and west of the new Sunderland Station which will create a more pedestrian focussed environment helping to link the station with the taxis ranks on Brougham Street, Blandford Street and the new multi storey car park that is proposed on Holmeside.



https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/holmeside
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 4:36 pm)Michael Wrote: The proposals would create a bus priority route along Holmeside through to Vine Place by creating a gyratory system turning traffic from Holmeside onto Maritime Street.

Proposed improvements Waterloo Street and Athenaeum Street to the south of the railway station will remain one way in an anti clockwise direction joining the gyratory system at the junction of Athenaeum Street with Waterloo Place.
It is proposed to move the existing taxi rank from Athenaeum Street and Waterloo Street onto Brougham Street. This will align with the Sunderland Station redevelopment and place the taxi rank in a location that is easily accessible to customers exiting the new station.

The proposals will improve the public realm to the south and west of the new Sunderland Station which will create a more pedestrian focussed environment helping to link the station with the taxis ranks on Brougham Street, Blandford Street and the new multi storey car park that is proposed on Holmeside.



https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/holmeside
So could the buses only go from Park lane down, to Fawcett Street, and not the other way, so whcih way would those buses come. Especially for routes like the 61 which only goes up the road from Winter Gardens to the Bus station.

Maybe this might get the 2/2A/39/39a/38/33 using Park Lane,
(29 Dec 2021, 4:36 pm)Michael Wrote: The proposals would create a bus priority route along Holmeside through to Vine Place by creating a gyratory system turning traffic from Holmeside onto Maritime Street.

Proposed improvements Waterloo Street and Athenaeum Street to the south of the railway station will remain one way in an anti clockwise direction joining the gyratory system at the junction of Athenaeum Street with Waterloo Place.
It is proposed to move the existing taxi rank from Athenaeum Street and Waterloo Street onto Brougham Street. This will align with the Sunderland Station redevelopment and place the taxi rank in a location that is easily accessible to customers exiting the new station.

The proposals will improve the public realm to the south and west of the new Sunderland Station which will create a more pedestrian focussed environment helping to link the station with the taxis ranks on Brougham Street, Blandford Street and the new multi storey car park that is proposed on Holmeside.



https://www.sunderland.gov.uk/holmeside

There's no real improvement here, other than the necessity of moving the taxi rank whilst the station front is redeveloped. 

Brougham Street is completely unsuitable for a taxi rank. It's the loading/service area for both Blandford Street and the Bridges. Pedestrians and vans/wagons don't mix, so it's daft pulling traffic through the pedestrianised Maritime Street and across the land vacated by that conveniently burnt down Peacocks store in the right place. 

It looks like the proposed bus gate will only be the short section between the Maritime Street junction and the pedestrian crossing lights on Vine Place:
   

I'd suggest that any 'improvement' to public transport will be undone by vans/wagons/taxis needing to use Holmeside and turning right on Maritime Street to get to Brougham Street, whereas currently that access is via Waterloo Place and the taxis use the Fawcett Street/John Street one way system on the way out at present. This is before you throw the traffic from a multi-story car park into the mix.
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(29 Dec 2021, 5:06 pm)Keeiajs Wrote: So could the buses only go from Park lane down, to Fawcett Street, and not the other way, so whcih way would those buses come. Especially for routes like the 61 which only goes up the road from Winter Gardens to the Bus station.

Maybe this might get the 2/2A/39/39a/38/33 using Park Lane,

Think its both ways for the buses but buses can only use the top part of Holmeside.

(29 Dec 2021, 5:07 pm)Adrian Wrote: There's no real improvement here, other than the necessity of moving the taxi rank whilst the station front is redeveloped. 

Brougham Street is completely unsuitable for a taxi rank. It's the loading/service area for both Blandford Street and the Bridges. Pedestrians and vans/wagons don't mix, so it's daft pulling traffic through the pedestrianised Maritime Street and across the land vacated by that conveniently burnt down Peacocks store in the right place. 

It looks like the proposed bus gate will only be the short section between the Maritime Street junction and the pedestrian crossing lights on Vine Place:


I'd suggest that any 'improvement' to public transport will be undone by vans/wagons/taxis needing to use Holmeside and turning right on Maritime Street to get to Brougham Street, whereas currently that access is via Waterloo Place and the taxis use the Fawcett Street/John Street one way system on the way out at present. This is before you throw the traffic from a multi-story car park into the mix.

Same, don't see an improvement anywhere apart from more traffic and confusion - if anything - Holmeside should be one way - only allowing buses to come through while leaving the town with the Winter Gardens being the main route in to the city centre.


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Going off track - I really think we need more services going past the new Civic Centre and the developments on the Vaux site.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 5:11 pm)Michael Wrote: Think its both ways for the buses but buses can only use the top part of Holmeside.


Going off track - I really think we need more services going past the new Civic Centre and the developments on the Vaux site.

Where is that being built.
(29 Dec 2021, 5:24 pm)Keeiajs Wrote: Where is that being built.

The new Civic Centre is being built on the old Vaux site.. it should be opening soon.


The current Civic Centre is getting knocked and they're building houses on it.......... https://www.sunderland-civic-centre-consultation.com/


Thing is, they're neglecting the actual shops, there's no decent shops at all - don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving the City Centre but I still think they need to get shops in.. otherwise all these developments are pointless.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 5:28 pm)Michael Wrote: The new Civic Centre is being built on the old Vaux site.. it should be opening soon.


The current Civic Centre is getting knocked and they're building houses on it..........


Thing is, they're neglecting the actual shops, there's no decent shops at all - don't get me wrong, I'm all for improving the City Centre but I still think they need to get shops in.. otherwise all these developments are pointless.

With the houses being bulit you have the 61 & 9 going down their, should surfice, 5 buses per hour...
(29 Dec 2021, 5:30 pm)Keeiajs Wrote: With the houses being bulit you have the 61 & 9 going down their, should surfice, 5 buses per hour...

Aye on the old Civic Centre site - which won't have houses on for another year or 2.



I'm talking about the new one...... current services:


Stagecoach:

8 (Day time only) -only from South Hylton
20 - only from Pennywell

Go North East

56 - only towards Park Lane

135/136 - early mornings/Evenings/Sundays only

700/702 - Monday to Saturday daytime only with the 701 on an evening 


and then 2 of the most pointless services: ED4/TB1


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Also here is the PDF for the Vaux site plans, if anyone's interested:

https://www.riversidesunderland.com/site...preads.pdf
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
Yea, Sunderland had the town hall, then the crappy civic centre and now City Hall even though Sunderland became city status many moons ago

No better time to insert a new bus interchange, between holmside and brougham street and maritimer street and Waterloo place , closer to train/ metro station and a stone throw away from the shopping centre, plenty of vacant shops available for transfer




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After looking at this proposal, it seems to have been made by someone who has no idea of public transport. My solution would be to erase Holmeside and Blandford Street as they are a bloody disgrace and a crime hotspot. Park Lane is a poor bus station and not in the best of places either, if there was any sense to the Station rebuild it would be a blank canvas, but the council are a total waste of time..
(29 Dec 2021, 9:33 pm)54APhotography Wrote: After looking at this proposal, it seems to have been made by someone who has no idea of public transport. My solution would be to erase Holmeside and Blandford Street as they are a bloody disgrace and a crime hotspot. Park Lane is a poor bus station and not in the best of places either, if there was any sense to the Station rebuild it would be a blank canvas, but the council are a total waste of time..

The whole of Blandford street and Holmeside needs to come down, the whole city centre is a disgrace but the council like to ignore that and spend money on stupid projects which will be empty within years.

All the empty buildings in the city centre - yet they decided to build a new city hall - when they could of used those...


The eye infirmary is also moving to the Vaux site - which is good - at the minute its out of the way.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 9:45 pm)Michael Wrote: The whole of Blandford street and Holmeside needs to come down, the whole city centre is a disgrace but the council like to ignore that and spend money on stupid projects which will be empty within years.

All the empty buildings in the city centre - yet they decided to build a new city hall - when they could of used those...


The eye infirmary is also moving to the Vaux site - which is good - at the minute its out of the way.

Instantly there springs images of patients wandering out of the new eye hospital and being mown down on St. Mary's Way...

There are more than adequate buildings in the old town quarter around Sunnyside, including the original and very elegant Town Hall...
Looking at this "Consultation" (All ready decided on plans) holmeside/vine place will revert back to one way traffic (As it was through lockdown) with buses only able to leave park lane via stockton road and burdon road to access john street, for traffic coming up holmeside buses will use the left lane to carry on ahead through the "bus gate" towards park lane/green terrace (hopefully fitted with ANPR cameras to dish out fines to takeaway drivers and other road users totally incompetent at reading road signs and road markings) and the right hand lane to filter traffic to the right onto maritime street and onto brougham street creating a 1 direction loop for all other traffic
(29 Dec 2021, 10:23 pm)N1cholas Wrote: Looking at this "Consultation" (All ready decided on plans) holmeside/vine place will revert back to one way traffic (As it was through lockdown) with buses only able to leave park lane via stockton road and burdon road to access john street, for traffic coming up holmeside buses will use the left lane to carry on ahead through the "bus gate" towards park lane/green terrace (hopefully fitted with ANPR cameras to dish out fines to takeaway drivers and other road users totally incompetent at reading road signs and road markings) and the right hand lane to filter traffic to the right onto maritime street and onto brougham street creating a 1 direction loop for all other traffic

That should of been kept anyway, it worked really well, least it kept the congestion away from the area.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 5:07 pm)Adrian Wrote: There's no real improvement here, other than the necessity of moving the taxi rank whilst the station front is redeveloped. 

Brougham Street is completely unsuitable for a taxi rank. It's the loading/service area for both Blandford Street and the Bridges. Pedestrians and vans/wagons don't mix, so it's daft pulling traffic through the pedestrianised Maritime Street and across the land vacated by that conveniently burnt down Peacocks store in the right place. 

It looks like the proposed bus gate will only be the short section between the Maritime Street junction and the pedestrian crossing lights on Vine Place:


I'd suggest that any 'improvement' to public transport will be undone by vans/wagons/taxis needing to use Holmeside and turning right on Maritime Street to get to Brougham Street, whereas currently that access is via Waterloo Place and the taxis use the Fawcett Street/John Street one way system on the way out at present. This is before you throw the traffic from a multi-story car park into the mix.

I love how they think this would result in an improved pedestrian environment. The whole area is a tip, those flats above the shops and the shops opposite the station need to go, Brougham Street is fit for unloading trucks only.. The station could only be improved if they removed everything above it and opened it all up again. And anyway what the hell they are thinking when they want the station car park to be the wasteland off Holmeside! It's total nonsense!
(29 Dec 2021, 10:35 pm)54APhotography Wrote: I love how they think this would result in an improved pedestrian environment. The whole area is a tip, those flats above the shops and the shops opposite the station need to go, Brougham Street is fit for unloading trucks only.. The station could only be improved if they removed everything above it and opened it all up again. And anyway what the hell they are thinking when they want the station car park to be the wasteland off Holmeside! It's total nonsense!

Wish they would, the high rises are a right eye sore.
Ooo Friend, Bus Friend.
(29 Dec 2021, 10:35 pm)54APhotography Wrote: I love how they think this would result in an improved pedestrian environment. The whole area is a tip, those flats above the shops and the shops opposite the station need to go, Brougham Street is fit for unloading trucks only.. The station could only be improved if they removed everything above it and opened it all up again. And anyway what the hell they are thinking when they want the station car park to be the wasteland off Holmeside! It's total nonsense!

The sensible option would be to demolish everything between Maritime Street and Waterloo Place, all the way back to Brougham Street. It'd create a focal point on to the 'redeveloped' station, remove some of the surplus retail space, and the plans should have been put in motion anyway with the failed Holmeside Triange plans over a decade ago.

Although creating a 33 story Skyscraper on Holmeside is up there with other wacky ideas such as asking the Tories for £804 million.
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Absolutely, the council here are brilliant at being totally incompetent... There never has been very much planning competence. The council want a shift to High Street West, with the bridges that retail space is sufficient for a small town with localized shopping centres. The whole station needs opening up from Poundland to Holmeside, do the lot. With the space created by erasing Holmeside and Blandford Street you could massively change the transport interface forever.

They had their chance for positive redevelopment time and time over, and they've screwed it up every single time...