Jesmond Depot

67 Replies, 4235 Views

(04 Jan 2022, 2:07 pm)MurdnunoC Wrote: A SAFE bus? Have you ever heard of such a thing?

I don't think its operated by 1773, so you need not worry.
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(04 Jan 2022, 2:10 pm)Adrian Wrote: I don't think its operated by 1773, so you need not worry.


I am worried. The Voodoo Priests at Doxford have an ungodly way of resurrecting dead vehicles when operationally required.
Pffft if the 55 was cancelled there would be hell on
Kind Regards
Tez
(04 Jan 2022, 11:31 am)Adrian Wrote: Seems to build and open a new depot for as little as 34 buses, unless they're getting a grant of some sort from Newcastle CC for redeveloping a brownfield site in Walkergate and they have some plans for expansion. 

When I first saw the article, I assumed they'd have taken the opportunity to merge Jesmond and Blyth into one depot, saving on the operating costs of two separate depots.

My bad, the mention of 34 was some rough maths of the maximum conventional vehicles moving to Blyth (58 spaces, and Blyth having a conventional PVR of roughly 24 if the 1/2 and X10/11 moved north to Ashington).

I've no idea how big the planned Jesmond depot is, other than being told it's planned as minibus only, but even if we say that the 57/A and 58 move across then you're looking at a PVR of roughly 20? If they also keep the 685, though that would contradict it being a minibus depot, then you'd need a depot that could house roughly 26-28 buses including spares.
To be honest, most of Jesmond's "big bus" work could be done out of Blyth with perhaps a bait room at Manor Walks for some of the Cramlington services.

- 306 - Interwork with 308
- 43 - Fine
- 44/45 - Interwork with 43 but with more running time than previous
- 54 - Interwork with 52 (as is)
- 52/53 - Both fine

685 would be a funny one? Could either keep or do a "route deal" with either SNW, SNE or GNE.

What could GNE or SNE/SNW give Arriva in return for the 685?

- GNE: North Tyneside minibus network (would only leave PM with a PVR of 27x)

- SNE: Ponteland 'X' routes (would need relief)
(04 Jan 2022, 9:59 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: To be honest, most of Jesmond's "big bus" work could be done out of Blyth with perhaps a bait room at Manor Walks for some of the Cramlington services.

- 306 - Interwork with 308
- 43 - Fine
- 44/45 - Interwork with 43 but with more running time than previous
- 54 - Interwork with 52 (as is)
- 52/53 - Both fine

685 would be a funny one? Could either keep or do a "route deal" with either SNW, SNE or GNE.

What could GNE or SNE/SNW give Arriva in return for the 685?

- GNE: North Tyneside minibus network (would only leave PM with a PVR of 27x)

- SNE: Ponteland 'X' routes (would need relief)
I am really surprised that SNE have not already taken over the 685 Arriva trips to be honest. I don't see what Arriva get out of it. They have zero presence in Carlisle and not very big in the Newcastle area. Wheras Stagecoach are the main operator at both ends! Surely a bigger customer base?
Or.........(with Arriva putting interworking arrangements in place)

X63 > Arriva
685 > Full Stagecoach
Just to clarify the rumoured changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).
Is the 555 still paid for by Quorums new owners? The 52, K routes and 18 easily pick up the slack

Wonder how long that will last in the current climate
Wistfully stuck in the 90s
(05 Jan 2022, 2:12 am)Ambassador Wrote: Is the 555 still paid for by Quorums new owners? The 52, K routes and 18 easily pick up the slack

Wonder how long that will last in the current climate
I'm guessing so otherwise it would have been withdrawn
(05 Jan 2022, 1:29 am)peter Wrote: Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

I wonder if the new Walkergate depot will be a 'low-cost' unit which will allow them to take on (or make lower bids) more Nexus contracts for example?
(05 Jan 2022, 2:41 pm)Thomas12 Wrote: I wonder if the new Walkergate depot will be a 'low-cost' unit which will allow them to take on (or make lower bids) more Nexus contracts for example?

Potentially. There's also the focus of Demand Responsive Transport solutions in the upcoming BSIP, which Arriva could look to play a part in given their experience with ArrivaClick.
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(05 Jan 2022, 1:29 am)peter Wrote: Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).
First obvious service change would be a reduction of the 306 & 308 to every 10 minutes combined (every 20 each) with the 306 no longer seving Battle Hill Drive with both remaining on the Coast Road. PVR interworking would be 13 (reduced from 18).

Tynemouth - Whitley Bay section of 306 axed to keep driving hours down with maybe 51A possibly extended to Marden instead?
(05 Jan 2022, 5:49 pm)L469 YVK Wrote: First obvious service change would be a reduction of the 306 & 308 to every 10 minutes combined (every 20 each) with the 306 no longer seving Battle Hill Drive with both remaining on the Coast Road. PVR interworking would be 13 (reduced from 18).

Tynemouth - Whitley Bay section of 306 axed to keep driving hours down with maybe 51A possibly extended to Marden instead?

These 'suggestions' are starting to fall within the remit of service suggestions; could we try and keep them in the appropriate threads, please? 

This should remain focused on the sale/move/redevelopment of Jesmond depot.
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(05 Jan 2022, 1:29 am)peter Wrote: Just to clarify the changes regarding PVR's etc.

-Jesmond is going to be replaced with a minibus only depot in Walkergate including operation of the 46, 51/51A, 55 and 553/555 with a PVR of 11.
-Blyth is being redeveloped and will be operating the 43/44/45, 52/53/54, 306, 308, X7/X8/X9 with a PVR of 57. If there's only space for 58 vehicles that doesn't add up. So either we're getting service changes to free up a suitable number of spares or another service is off to Ashington.
-Ashington is going to operate the 35, X14, X15, X18, X20, X21, X22 as well as the 1, 2 and X10/11 with a PVR of around 53 (potentially the 57/57A/58 remain with a PVR of 5).

The 685 I agree it would make sense to pass over to Stagecoach at this point. The only other oddity is the 47 hospital shuttle which uses a decker atm - not sure of loadings but could be revised to minibus operation (with frequency increase).

Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.
(05 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)Storx Wrote: Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.
Could we possibly see a change to routes with different buses being put on
(05 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)Storx Wrote: Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 1/2 I've heard from multiple people working at both depots, the X10/11 seems less substantial but a few folk have mentioned it - less convinced with that one at the moment mind. Don't think any of it has been confirmed officially at this point. 

In terms of the 1, it runs past Ashington at the moment and I believe they used to operate it at one stage. With the 2, you could either interwork it with the 35 to have driver breaks at Ashington, or leave it standalone if you have drivers breaking at Morpeth/travelling on the 35 to Ashington.
(05 Jan 2022, 6:29 pm)Storx Wrote: Are these confirmed btw or just rumours (the X10/X11 in particular).

It seems a really illogical move as there's no possible way it could work with the 1/2 (they're easy 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth and reverse) and there's not enough driver hours to work it with the X21/X22/35 routes so it seems you'd have drivers driving from Ashington to drive buses literally outside of Blyth depot. Not to mention unless they've got extra running time added on the X7/X8/X9/X10/X11 then they will be constantly late since they're only on time because they swap everything around daily.

The 40's arguably would be the more sensible route since they you'd have all the Enviro's and Pulsars up at Ashington and the 43 already runs to Morpeth anyway for some driver changeovers and all the Streetlites (52/53/54) and Gemini's at Blyth plus whatever 'new' deckers (X7/X8/X9/X10/X11/306/308) they're getting. Would solve the PVR issue aswell, believe the 40's are a slightly higher PVR.

Sorry should have put in my original post that I was just collating all the current rumours, edited to specify that now. Yeah I agree the 43/44/45 would make more sense for Ashington - the difference would leave 5 spares at Blyth as opposed to 1 - perhaps to get the remaining spares there will finally be the trimming down of the 306/308 that some members of the forum have been suggesting for an eternity. The only other thought I had was perhaps the new Walkergate depot won't just be minibuses and the 52/53/54 will go there, or alternatively, not sure what the passenger numbers are like on that group but could they be downgraded to minibus?
(05 Jan 2022, 7:31 pm)mb134 Wrote: The 1/2 I've heard from multiple people working at both depots, the X10/11 seems less substantial but a few folk have mentioned it - less convinced with that one at the moment mind. Don't think any of it has been confirmed officially at this point. 

In terms of the 1, it runs past Ashington at the moment and I believe they used to operate it at one stage. With the 2, you could either interwork it with the 35 to have driver breaks at Ashington, or leave it standalone if you have drivers breaking at Morpeth/travelling on the 35 to Ashington.

Yeah that's fair enough then makes sense. See for the 1/2 I'd just assume they'd interwork with each other. 1 to Widdrington, 1 to Blyth, then 2 to Morpeth, 2 to Blyth then 1 back to Ashington. Don't see why it couldn't work and arguably the buses are probably better placed up there anyway, should be about right for hours I believe.

(05 Jan 2022, 7:33 pm)peter Wrote: Sorry should have put in my original post that I was just collating all the current rumours, edited to specify that now. Yeah I agree the 43/44/45 would make more sense for Ashington - the difference would leave 5 spares at Blyth as opposed to 1 - perhaps to get the remaining spares there will finally be the trimming down of the 306/308 that some members of the forum have been suggesting for an eternity. The only other thought I had was perhaps the new Jesmond depot won't just be minibuses and the 52/53/54 will go there, or alternatively, not sure what the passenger numbers are like on that group but could they be downgraded to minibus?

Yeah I had in the back of mind for downgrading them but then you'd just move the problem with lack of minibuses. Mind I do think we're going to get buses from London pretty soonish. I know it's been rumoured on the Arriva London forums a few times lately and they're withdrawing a lot of buses because of PVR cuts down there. I know there's a batch of 09 Enviro's being withdrawn now but they're on lease and there's a batch of DB300's unaccounted for in a few months aswell. They need more buses regardless to get arid of the B7's and Omnicity's since they're not Euro 6 and I doubt Arriva are 'that' stupid to upgrade them.
(05 Jan 2022, 5:56 pm)Adrian Wrote: These 'suggestions' are starting to fall within the remit of service suggestions; could we try and keep them in the appropriate threads, please? 

This should remain focused on the sale/move/redevelopment of Jesmond depot.
I wouldn't say it's a suggestion (although I have proposed it as a suggestion previously).

- Given a potential move of the 306 to Blyth = reducing dead mileage

- PVR limits at Blyth = Potential PVR cuts meaning marginal frequency reductions

- Driving hour limits

It's a very valid point regarding the actual move as it would have genuine implications that would need to be considered. That doesn't just go for the 306/308 but other services too whether their interworking pattens would change, frequencies whether they'd remain the same or decrease.

A network re-design (large changes to actual routes etc) would easily fall under service suggestions however Smile