Stagecoach North East: Service Suggestions
Stagecoach North East: Service Suggestions
(31 Dec 2023, 10:44 am)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/s...ng-2383925 - It's on there.
The codes will have specific words, I believe, these are the meaning of them - not 100% sure on the M but assume it means that:
First Letter
D - De minimis - Directly awarded
M - MEAT (Most Economically Advantageous Tender)? - Awarded through tender
Second Letter
W - Works service - Assume a resource tender
S - (Minimum) Subsidy - The difference between fare revenue and making a profit, they keep fares.
C - (Minimum) Cost - Fixed cost, Nexus gets fares
Just noted it's slightly less than a million but £600k+ a year, give or take plus fares it's quite a lucrative contract.
https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/tendering/indepth-0 - There's an article explaining all those better.
(31 Dec 2023, 10:44 am)Storx https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/s...ng-2383925 - It's on there.
The codes will have specific words, I believe, these are the meaning of them - not 100% sure on the M but assume it means that:
First Letter
D - De minimis - Directly awarded
M - MEAT (Most Economically Advantageous Tender)? - Awarded through tender
Second Letter
W - Works service - Assume a resource tender
S - (Minimum) Subsidy - The difference between fare revenue and making a profit, they keep fares.
C - (Minimum) Cost - Fixed cost, Nexus gets fares
Just noted it's slightly less than a million but £600k+ a year, give or take plus fares it's quite a lucrative contract.
https://app.croneri.co.uk/topics/tendering/indepth-0 - There's an article explaining all those better.
(31 Dec 2023, 11:13 am)Dan DC - de-minimis cost (directly awarded, Nexus keeps revenue)
DS - de-minimis subsidy (directly awarded, operator keeps revenue)
MC - minimum cost (tendered, Nexus keeps revenue)
MS - minimum subsidy (tendered, operator takes revenue risk and keeps revenue).
MW - Miscellaneous Works
In broad numbers (regardless of operator), the gross price of 1 PVR on an all-day tender is around £200k.
So, on the 317 (which is 5 PVR), Stagecoach will be assuming there is around £400k revenue in addition to the £600k net subsidy.
In revenue terms, it’s a meaty contract - but it won’t be the huge money spinner that you think it is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(31 Dec 2023, 11:13 am)Dan DC - de-minimis cost (directly awarded, Nexus keeps revenue)
DS - de-minimis subsidy (directly awarded, operator keeps revenue)
MC - minimum cost (tendered, Nexus keeps revenue)
MS - minimum subsidy (tendered, operator takes revenue risk and keeps revenue).
MW - Miscellaneous Works
In broad numbers (regardless of operator), the gross price of 1 PVR on an all-day tender is around £200k.
So, on the 317 (which is 5 PVR), Stagecoach will be assuming there is around £400k revenue in addition to the £600k net subsidy.
In revenue terms, it’s a meaty contract - but it won’t be the huge money spinner that you think it is.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(31 Dec 2023, 11:48 am)Storx Thanks for that so was technically right with the terms but got the terminology wrong.
Surprised the revenue is only £400k, always seems reasonable loads at the North Shields to Whitley Bay end of the route, at least, whenever I've seen it. Unsure on the other side though, could carry fresh air for all I know on it's mystery tour around every estate going.
(31 Dec 2023, 11:48 am)Storx Thanks for that so was technically right with the terms but got the terminology wrong.
Surprised the revenue is only £400k, always seems reasonable loads at the North Shields to Whitley Bay end of the route, at least, whenever I've seen it. Unsure on the other side though, could carry fresh air for all I know on it's mystery tour around every estate going.
(31 Dec 2023, 12:38 pm)Thomas12 It can be quite busy considering it's the only service for East Howdon, Willington Quay, Holy Cross etc.
Does vary quite a bit though. Sometimes can be a near full bus, and then others empty.
(31 Dec 2023, 12:38 pm)Thomas12 It can be quite busy considering it's the only service for East Howdon, Willington Quay, Holy Cross etc.
Does vary quite a bit though. Sometimes can be a near full bus, and then others empty.
(31 Dec 2023, 4:05 pm)Storx Aye it's similar on the other side where some are really busy but others less so. Never see it dead, unlike the short 19's - the long ones usually do alright though.
It takes such an obscure road now just doing everywhere and anywhere, bizarrely the short 19's are pointless now avoiding everywhere at the same time.
(31 Dec 2023, 4:05 pm)Storx Aye it's similar on the other side where some are really busy but others less so. Never see it dead, unlike the short 19's - the long ones usually do alright though.
It takes such an obscure road now just doing everywhere and anywhere, bizarrely the short 19's are pointless now avoiding everywhere at the same time.
(31 Dec 2023, 6:19 pm)Thomas12 Yeah agree with the short 19 services, they are a waste of money.
Always thought the 317 could just serve the fish quay instead.
(31 Dec 2023, 6:19 pm)Thomas12 Yeah agree with the short 19 services, they are a waste of money.
Always thought the 317 could just serve the fish quay instead.
(12 Feb 2024, 7:23 pm)Thomas12 What would be the benefit of this when the 19 already covers this section? The 19 is dead most of the time anyway outside of the peaks.
(12 Feb 2024, 7:23 pm)Thomas12 What would be the benefit of this when the 19 already covers this section? The 19 is dead most of the time anyway outside of the peaks.
Suggestion for Newcastle services 30/35:-
30:-
Extension from Fawdon terminus to Fawdon Church via Hauxley Drive (bus gate?), on to Kingston Park Rd, Wansbeck Rd creating a loop at Jubilee Rd junction. Could be renumbered 30/30A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
35:-
From Salters Road, direct along Kenton Road (omit Welford Ave), normal route Fawdon Lane, Red House Farm, Kingston Park Road before turning on to Broadway West & Great North Rd serving Hollywood Ave (X46 can be removed?) and rejoining normal route at Gosforth High St. Renumbered 35/35A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
Disclaimer! I've no idea on timings!
(13 Feb 2024, 12:58 pm)thw1008 Suggestion for Newcastle services 30/35:-
30:-
Extension from Fawdon terminus to Fawdon Church via Hauxley Drive (bus gate?), on to Kingston Park Rd, Wansbeck Rd creating a loop at Jubilee Rd junction. Could be renumbered 30/30A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
35:-
From Salters Road, direct along Kenton Road (omit Welford Ave), normal route Fawdon Lane, Red House Farm, Kingston Park Road before turning on to Broadway West & Great North Rd serving Hollywood Ave (X46 can be removed?) and rejoining normal route at Gosforth High St. Renumbered 35/35A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
Disclaimer! I've no idea on timings!
(13 Feb 2024, 12:58 pm)thw1008 Suggestion for Newcastle services 30/35:-
30:-
Extension from Fawdon terminus to Fawdon Church via Hauxley Drive (bus gate?), on to Kingston Park Rd, Wansbeck Rd creating a loop at Jubilee Rd junction. Could be renumbered 30/30A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
35:-
From Salters Road, direct along Kenton Road (omit Welford Ave), normal route Fawdon Lane, Red House Farm, Kingston Park Road before turning on to Broadway West & Great North Rd serving Hollywood Ave (X46 can be removed?) and rejoining normal route at Gosforth High St. Renumbered 35/35A to work clockwise/anti-clockwise.
Disclaimer! I've no idea on timings!
(13 Feb 2024, 2:17 pm)Storx Interesting idea but the X46 is needed for the estate further North.
(13 Feb 2024, 2:17 pm)Storx Interesting idea but the X46 is needed for the estate further North.
(13 Feb 2024, 4:51 pm)thw1008 Apologies when I meant the X46 could be removed I meant just to remove the Hollywood Avenue leg, not the full route
I seem to remember Stagecoach trialling a no.30 night bus which done a loop of Jesmond/Fawdon/Kenton but it never caught on. Or rather the night bus idea didn't catch on
(13 Feb 2024, 4:51 pm)thw1008 Apologies when I meant the X46 could be removed I meant just to remove the Hollywood Avenue leg, not the full route
I seem to remember Stagecoach trialling a no.30 night bus which done a loop of Jesmond/Fawdon/Kenton but it never caught on. Or rather the night bus idea didn't catch on
(13 Feb 2024, 4:51 pm)thw1008 Apologies when I meant the X46 could be removed I meant just to remove the Hollywood Avenue leg, not the full routeThe problem with those night-services, and indeed a lot of other new routes, is that they're not given enough time to generate enough custom to become profitable. When starting a new business, most analysts and commentators agree that it should take two to three years to become profitable. For some reason, bus companies think they're immune to this premise and expect new ventures to turn a profit almost immediately hence why new, experimental, services are withdrawn after a short period. While I understand the reluctance to throw resource at something not generating revenue, things have to be given a chance to do so. New customers/passengers aren't immediately going to flock to a service without it being established first.
I seem to remember Stagecoach trialling a no.30 night bus which done a loop of Jesmond/Fawdon/Kenton but it never caught on. Or rather the night bus idea didn't catch on
(13 Feb 2024, 4:51 pm)thw1008 Apologies when I meant the X46 could be removed I meant just to remove the Hollywood Avenue leg, not the full routeThe problem with those night-services, and indeed a lot of other new routes, is that they're not given enough time to generate enough custom to become profitable. When starting a new business, most analysts and commentators agree that it should take two to three years to become profitable. For some reason, bus companies think they're immune to this premise and expect new ventures to turn a profit almost immediately hence why new, experimental, services are withdrawn after a short period. While I understand the reluctance to throw resource at something not generating revenue, things have to be given a chance to do so. New customers/passengers aren't immediately going to flock to a service without it being established first.
I seem to remember Stagecoach trialling a no.30 night bus which done a loop of Jesmond/Fawdon/Kenton but it never caught on. Or rather the night bus idea didn't catch on
Hartlepool services
1 As it currently is but reduced to every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 Minutes Sundays. Will no longer serve Warrior Park and some Journeys will extend to Middleheaven for Middlesbrough College or Riverside Stadium on Matchdays. In Seaton Carew will operate Via Elizabeth Way to Bus Station. Will also once again serve Hartlepool Marina instead of Morrisons and Mill House.
1A Will operate every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays. Will operate current service 1 route from Town Centre to University Hospital then Wiltshire Way High Tunstall. Both services will revert to former loop around High Tunstall. Will operate Service 1 route between Town Centre and Seaton Carew terminating at Bus Station.
This still gives a combined 15 minutes service between High Tunstall, Teesbay Retail Park and Seaton Carew on Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 30 minutes on Sundays. Both services will interwork.
New Service 1B. Will operate Monday to Sunday Evenings and early morning Monday - Friday. Will operate from High Tunstall to University hospital via 1A Route and from Hospital to Seaton Carew along service 1 route.
If at any point in future Teesbay Retail Park was giving a new bus stop on the car services would serve it.
New Service 2 Bishop Cuthbert - Seaton Carew. will operate current service 3 route from Bishop Cuthbert to Middleton Road then operate via Marina and Interchange to Town Centre then service 1 route to Elizabeth Way junction then operation to Seaton Carew Bus Station via Station Lane and The Front.
Service will be every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays.
This will mean a service of around every 10 minutes between Hartlepool Town Centre and Teesbay Retail Park on Monday - Saturday daytime and every 20 minutes on Sunday daytimes.
Services 3 will continue to run Current route from Bishop Cuthbert to Owton Manor. will return to a 30 minute service on Monday - Saturday daytime. Will no longer serve South Fens though and instead will terminate at Saint Patrick’s shops.
Service 3A will run every 60 minutes during Monday - Friday daytimes during school term times only and will operate current route from Saint Patrick’s - Town Centre then serving Asda and Maritime Avenue. Weekends and School holidays will operate as service 15. most Journeys will interwork with service 8.
New service 4 Clavering Estate - West Park will operate every 60 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime via Hart Station, Raby Road, Millbank Road, Marina, Interchange then Grange Road to Ward Jackson park and West Park loop. This will open up a new service from Hartlepool Town Centre to Ward Jackson Park.
Service 5 Headland - Clavering Estate via Hart Station will interwork with service 4 at Clavering and operate every 30 minutes reopening connections from Headland to West View
Service 6 retimed to every 15 minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 20 minutes on Sundays with every 30 minutes on evenings. All journeys now serving South Fens and will continue to interwork with service 7.
Service 7 Retimed to every 15 Minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes. Every 20 minutes Sunday daytime. Every 30 minutes evenings. Some Journeys now serving interchange.
New service 8 Owton Manor - Throston Grange. via Stockton Road, Town Centre, Marina and University Hospital. This service opens up new connections between Owton Manor, Rossmere and the University Hospital.
Service 12 Headland - Seaton Carew. via West View, University Hospital, Town Centre, Tesco and Warrior Park. Monday - Saturday every 20 minutes, every 60 minutes Evenings and Sundays.
Service 15 Maritime Avenue - Seaton Carew. Will operate service 3A route from Marina to Owton Manor then operate via Owton Manor Lane and Seaton Lane to Seaton Carew Bus Station. Every 60 minutes ( Monday - Friday daytime School holidays only ) evenings 60 minutes and Sundays 60 minutes.
Just a few ideas I had to reopen some connections in the town that people want.
(22 Feb 2024, 10:28 pm)col87 Hartlepool services
1 As it currently is but reduced to every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 Minutes Sundays. Will no longer serve Warrior Park and some Journeys will extend to Middleheaven for Middlesbrough College or Riverside Stadium on Matchdays. In Seaton Carew will operate Via Elizabeth Way to Bus Station. Will also once again serve Hartlepool Marina instead of Morrisons and Mill House.
1A Will operate every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays. Will operate current service 1 route from Town Centre to University Hospital then Wiltshire Way High Tunstall. Both services will revert to former loop around High Tunstall. Will operate Service 1 route between Town Centre and Seaton Carew terminating at Bus Station.
This still gives a combined 15 minutes service between High Tunstall, Teesbay Retail Park and Seaton Carew on Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 30 minutes on Sundays. Both services will interwork.
New Service 1B. Will operate Monday to Sunday Evenings and early morning Monday - Friday. Will operate from High Tunstall to University hospital via 1A Route and from Hospital to Seaton Carew along service 1 route.
If at any point in future Teesbay Retail Park was giving a new bus stop on the car services would serve it.
New Service 2 Bishop Cuthbert - Seaton Carew. will operate current service 3 route from Bishop Cuthbert to Middleton Road then operate via Marina and Interchange to Town Centre then service 1 route to Elizabeth Way junction then operation to Seaton Carew Bus Station via Station Lane and The Front.
Service will be every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays.
This will mean a service of around every 10 minutes between Hartlepool Town Centre and Teesbay Retail Park on Monday - Saturday daytime and every 20 minutes on Sunday daytimes.
Services 3 will continue to run Current route from Bishop Cuthbert to Owton Manor. will return to a 30 minute service on Monday - Saturday daytime. Will no longer serve South Fens though and instead will terminate at Saint Patrick’s shops.
Service 3A will run every 60 minutes during Monday - Friday daytimes during school term times only and will operate current route from Saint Patrick’s - Town Centre then serving Asda and Maritime Avenue. Weekends and School holidays will operate as service 15. most Journeys will interwork with service 8.
New service 4 Clavering Estate - West Park will operate every 60 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime via Hart Station, Raby Road, Millbank Road, Marina, Interchange then Grange Road to Ward Jackson park and West Park loop. This will open up a new service from Hartlepool Town Centre to Ward Jackson Park.
Service 5 Headland - Clavering Estate via Hart Station will interwork with service 4 at Clavering and operate every 30 minutes reopening connections from Headland to West View
Service 6 retimed to every 15 minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 20 minutes on Sundays with every 30 minutes on evenings. All journeys now serving South Fens and will continue to interwork with service 7.
Service 7 Retimed to every 15 Minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes. Every 20 minutes Sunday daytime. Every 30 minutes evenings. Some Journeys now serving interchange.
New service 8 Owton Manor - Throston Grange. via Stockton Road, Town Centre, Marina and University Hospital. This service opens up new connections between Owton Manor, Rossmere and the University Hospital.
Service 12 Headland - Seaton Carew. via West View, University Hospital, Town Centre, Tesco and Warrior Park. Monday - Saturday every 20 minutes, every 60 minutes Evenings and Sundays.
Service 15 Maritime Avenue - Seaton Carew. Will operate service 3A route from Marina to Owton Manor then operate via Owton Manor Lane and Seaton Lane to Seaton Carew Bus Station. Every 60 minutes ( Monday - Friday daytime School holidays only ) evenings 60 minutes and Sundays 60 minutes.
Just a few ideas I had to reopen some connections in the town that people want.
(22 Feb 2024, 10:28 pm)col87 Hartlepool services
1 As it currently is but reduced to every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 Minutes Sundays. Will no longer serve Warrior Park and some Journeys will extend to Middleheaven for Middlesbrough College or Riverside Stadium on Matchdays. In Seaton Carew will operate Via Elizabeth Way to Bus Station. Will also once again serve Hartlepool Marina instead of Morrisons and Mill House.
1A Will operate every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays. Will operate current service 1 route from Town Centre to University Hospital then Wiltshire Way High Tunstall. Both services will revert to former loop around High Tunstall. Will operate Service 1 route between Town Centre and Seaton Carew terminating at Bus Station.
This still gives a combined 15 minutes service between High Tunstall, Teesbay Retail Park and Seaton Carew on Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 30 minutes on Sundays. Both services will interwork.
New Service 1B. Will operate Monday to Sunday Evenings and early morning Monday - Friday. Will operate from High Tunstall to University hospital via 1A Route and from Hospital to Seaton Carew along service 1 route.
If at any point in future Teesbay Retail Park was giving a new bus stop on the car services would serve it.
New Service 2 Bishop Cuthbert - Seaton Carew. will operate current service 3 route from Bishop Cuthbert to Middleton Road then operate via Marina and Interchange to Town Centre then service 1 route to Elizabeth Way junction then operation to Seaton Carew Bus Station via Station Lane and The Front.
Service will be every 30 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime and every 60 minutes on Sundays.
This will mean a service of around every 10 minutes between Hartlepool Town Centre and Teesbay Retail Park on Monday - Saturday daytime and every 20 minutes on Sunday daytimes.
Services 3 will continue to run Current route from Bishop Cuthbert to Owton Manor. will return to a 30 minute service on Monday - Saturday daytime. Will no longer serve South Fens though and instead will terminate at Saint Patrick’s shops.
Service 3A will run every 60 minutes during Monday - Friday daytimes during school term times only and will operate current route from Saint Patrick’s - Town Centre then serving Asda and Maritime Avenue. Weekends and School holidays will operate as service 15. most Journeys will interwork with service 8.
New service 4 Clavering Estate - West Park will operate every 60 minutes Monday - Saturday daytime via Hart Station, Raby Road, Millbank Road, Marina, Interchange then Grange Road to Ward Jackson park and West Park loop. This will open up a new service from Hartlepool Town Centre to Ward Jackson Park.
Service 5 Headland - Clavering Estate via Hart Station will interwork with service 4 at Clavering and operate every 30 minutes reopening connections from Headland to West View
Service 6 retimed to every 15 minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes and every 20 minutes on Sundays with every 30 minutes on evenings. All journeys now serving South Fens and will continue to interwork with service 7.
Service 7 Retimed to every 15 Minutes Monday - Saturday daytimes. Every 20 minutes Sunday daytime. Every 30 minutes evenings. Some Journeys now serving interchange.
New service 8 Owton Manor - Throston Grange. via Stockton Road, Town Centre, Marina and University Hospital. This service opens up new connections between Owton Manor, Rossmere and the University Hospital.
Service 12 Headland - Seaton Carew. via West View, University Hospital, Town Centre, Tesco and Warrior Park. Monday - Saturday every 20 minutes, every 60 minutes Evenings and Sundays.
Service 15 Maritime Avenue - Seaton Carew. Will operate service 3A route from Marina to Owton Manor then operate via Owton Manor Lane and Seaton Lane to Seaton Carew Bus Station. Every 60 minutes ( Monday - Friday daytime School holidays only ) evenings 60 minutes and Sundays 60 minutes.
Just a few ideas I had to reopen some connections in the town that people want.
(31 Dec 2023, 6:19 pm)Thomas12 Yeah agree with the short 19 services, they are a waste of money.
Always thought the 317 could just serve the fish quay instead.
(31 Dec 2023, 6:19 pm)Thomas12 Yeah agree with the short 19 services, they are a waste of money.
Always thought the 317 could just serve the fish quay instead.
Would absolutely never happen at all in a million years, its a massive reach but I've thought of a cool route, just thinking of bus spotters instead of actual customers lol
Merge Stagecoach 18 with GNE 19 and 317 to operate a giant loop service
Clockwise trips would continue to run as 317 and anticlockwise trips to run as 318, also operating via Monkseaton to connect Whitley Bay with Northumberland Park. To connect the 18 with the 317, either operate it the former route to Wallsend or just the 12 route.
Cramlington to North Shields 19 trips would still run as of now, as a Service 319.
Evening trips on all services would run as normal, however I'm not too sure what to do about the numbering. 317 could operate from Whitley Bay to Wallsend as the 317, and the returning trip as a 318 maybe? Then evening 18 trips could stay as the 18 (similar to the 54 and 354).