BSOG/Concs fares

37 Replies, 26759 Views

(28 Feb 2014, 3:05 pm)andreos1 Wrote: Yet, passengers have a poorer frequency than in years gone

In years gone by, was it not just the 722/723/735 that operated from Worswick Street through Low Fell to CLS. The 722/723 left Newcastle 00, 10, 25, 40, and the 735 was hourly, so 5 buses an hour along the Low Fell corridor to CLS, and if I remember correctly, the 735 terminated in CLS somewhere and 2 of the 722/723 services terminated at Durham whilst the other 2 carried on to Darlington. Compare that with now when you have a 21 every 7/8 minutes, 8 an hour to CLS, and 4 an hour to Durham.

The X1 was hourly (when it was linked to the X10 operated by Chester depot and Arriva), which is now half hourly, so there is an increase again from Newcastle to Durham via Low Fell.

It was only when Classic started to operate a service to compete with the 722/723 (the 21) that the services were increased.
(28 Feb 2014, 7:08 pm)citaro5284 Wrote: In years gone by, was it not just the 722/723/735 that operated from Worswick Street through Low Fell to CLS. The 722/723 left Newcastle 00, 10, 25, 40, and the 735 was hourly, so 5 buses an hour along the Low Fell corridor to CLS, and if I remember correctly, the 735 terminated in CLS somewhere and 2 of the 722/723 services terminated at Durham whilst the other 2 carried on to Darlington. Compare that with now when you have a 21 every 7/8 minutes, 8 an hour to CLS, and 4 an hour to Durham.

The X1 was hourly (when it was linked to the X10 operated by Chester depot and Arriva), which is now half hourly, so there is an increase again from Newcastle to Durham via Low Fell.

It was only when Classic started to operate a service to compete with the 722/723 (the 21) that the services were increased.

You forgot the hourly 231 and 724.
Granted going from your figures, it appears there are more buses through Low Fell to Chester - but these are at the expense of the local (and half hourly) 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 (10 buses through Low Fell alone with those 5 services).

You also forgot the hourly x46 to Crook.

So your 5 per hour - plus the 231, 724 and x46 is?
Plus the 10 local services...

In addition to that, passengers had the 721, 725 and 726 via Old Durham Road to Chester.

The 735 terminated initially in Seaham, but then went as far as Houghton, running at the opposite side of the hour to the 231.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(28 Feb 2014, 7:08 pm)citaro5284 Wrote: In years gone by, was it not just the 722/723/735 that operated from Worswick Street through Low Fell to CLS. The 722/723 left Newcastle 00, 10, 25, 40, and the 735 was hourly, so 5 buses an hour along the Low Fell corridor to CLS, and if I remember correctly, the 735 terminated in CLS somewhere and 2 of the 722/723 services terminated at Durham whilst the other 2 carried on to Darlington. Compare that with now when you have a 21 every 7/8 minutes, 8 an hour to CLS, and 4 an hour to Durham.

The X1 was hourly (when it was linked to the X10 operated by Chester depot and Arriva), which is now half hourly, so there is an increase again from Newcastle to Durham via Low Fell.

It was only when Classic started to operate a service to compete with the 722/723 (the 21) that the services were increased.

Re: Durham Road/Low Fell Corridor

The following information is taken from the June 1989 'G4' Bus Timetable which covers Wrekenton/Birtley and Gateshead.

   

In 1989, before Classic introduced their 21 route, the services listed below ran from Gateshead/Newcastle along Durham Road through Low Fell to various destinations (with Mon-Sat peak time frequency included):

24: Newcastle - Allerdene Estate (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 02/32)
25: Newcastle - Wrekenton (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 09/39)
26: Newcastle - Barley Mow Estate (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 17/47)
28: Newcastle - Kibblesworth (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 24/54)
Cross Tyne (LFC): Newcastle - Allerdene (half hourly - left Newcastle St Thomas Street at 05/35)

231: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly - left Worswick Street at 50 mins past the hour)
709: Newcastle - Stanley (hourly - left Worswick Street at 23 mins past the hour)
722: Newcastle - Darlington (hourly - left Worswick Street at 10 mins past the hour)
723: Newcastle - Darlington (three per hour - left Worswick Street at 00/25/40)
728: Newcastle - Stanley (hourly - left Worswick Street at 50 mins past the hour)
735: Newcastle - Houghton-le-Spring (hourly - left Worswick Street at 20 mins past the hour)

X1: Newcastle - Middlesbrough (hourly - left Eldon Square at 15 mins past the hour)
X46: Newcastle - Crook (hourly - left Eldon Square at 47 mins past the hour)
OK (724): Newcastle - Bishop Auckland (hourly - left Newgate Street at 05 mins past each hour)

With the obvious exception of the Cross-Tyne and OK services, these services were operated either jointly or wholly by the Northern group. Not including the 724, 8 buses per hour operated between Newcastle and Chester; 6 buses per hour operated between Newcastle and Durham; and 10 per hour between Newcastle and Birtley. Between Newcastle and Low Fell, there were 18 buses per hour - 21 if you include the Cross-Tyne and OK services.
(28 Feb 2014, 8:13 pm)AdamY Wrote: Re: Durham Road/Low Fell Corridor

The following information is taken from the June 1989 'G4' Bus Timetable which covers Wrekenton/Birtley and Gateshead.



In 1989, before Classic introduced their 21 route, the services listed below ran from Gateshead/Newcastle along Durham Road through Low Fell to various destinations (with Mon-Sat peak time frequency included):

24: Newcastle - Allerdene Estate (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 02/32)
25: Newcastle - Wrekenton (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 09/39)
26: Newcastle - Barley Mow Estate (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 17/47)
28: Newcastle - Kibblesworth (half hourly - left Worswick Street at 24/54)
Cross Tyne (LFC): Newcastle - Allerdene (half hourly - left Newcastle St Thomas Street at 05/35)

231: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly - left Worswick Street at 50 mins past the hour)
709: Newcastle - Stanley (hourly - left Worswick Street at 23 mins past the hour)
722: Newcastle - Darlington (hourly - left Worswick Street at 10 mins past the hour)
723: Newcastle - Darlington (three per hour - left Worswick Street at 00/25/40)
728: Newcastle - Stanley (hourly - left Worswick Street at 50 mins past the hour)
735: Newcastle - Houghton-le-Spring (hourly - left Worswick Street at 20 mins past the hour)

X1: Newcastle - Middlesbrough (hourly - left Eldon Square at 15 mins past the hour)
X46: Newcastle - Crook (hourly - left Eldon Square at 47 mins past the hour)
OK (724): Newcastle - Bishop Auckland (hourly - left Newgate Street at 05 mins past each hour)

With the obvious exception of the Cross-Tyne and OK services, these services were operated either jointly or wholly by the Northern group. Not including the 724, 8 buses per hour operated between Newcastle and Chester; 6 buses per hour operated between Newcastle and Durham; and 10 per hour between Newcastle and Birtley. Between Newcastle and Low Fell, there were 18 buses per hour - 21 if you include the Cross-Tyne and OK services.

....and I forgot about the two Stanley services - which were the only two routes scheduled to be allocated a single decker.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(28 Feb 2014, 8:19 pm)andreos1 Wrote: ....and I forgot about the two Stanley services - which were the only two routes scheduled to be allocated a single decker.

...And don't forget the other buses running between Newcastle and Chester:

721: Newcastle - Chester (hourly - left Worswick Street at 27 mins past the hour)
725: Newcastle - East Hedleyhope (hourly - left Worswick Street at 48 mins past the hour)
726: Newcastle - Witton Gilbert (hourly - left Worswick Street at 20 mins past the hour)
733: Newcastle - Chester-le-Street (hourly - left Worswick Street at 35 mins past the hour)

So that's 12 buses per hour between Newcastle and Chester.

EDIT: - You have included them - IGNORE!
(28 Feb 2014, 8:35 pm)AdamY Wrote: ...And don't forget the other buses running between Newcastle and Chester:

721: Newcastle - Chester (hourly - left Worswick Street at 27 mins past the hour)
725: Newcastle - East Hedleyhope (hourly - left Worswick Street at 48 mins past the hour)
726: Newcastle - Witton Gilbert (hourly - left Worswick Street at 20 mins past the hour)
733: Newcastle - Chester-le-Street (hourly - left Worswick Street at 35 mins past the hour)

So that's 12 buses per hour between Newcastle and Chester.

Compared to:

8 buses an hour on 21
Half Hourly on the 28/28A
Half Hourly X21
Half Hourly X25

That's now 14 buses an hour between Newcastle and Chester just from Go North East. Add in the X2, and you've got 16.
(28 Feb 2014, 8:38 pm)Kuyoyo Wrote: Compared to:

8 buses an hour on 21
Half Hourly on the 28/28A
Half Hourly X21
Half Hourly X25

That's now 14 buses an hour between Newcastle and Chester just from Go North East. Add in the X2, and you've got 16.

lol
(28 Feb 2014, 8:57 pm)andreos1 Wrote: Yeah, I mentioned the Old Durham Road services, but again the 733 was forgotten about.

So in conclusion, I think we can all safely say, that there were more buses and more seats ph between each of the points mentioned then, than there are now.

Seats, quite possibly when you take into consideration that deckers were certainly more prominent then. But, as Kuyoyo correctly asserts, there are more buses per hour between Chester and Newcastle now than there were in 1989.
(28 Feb 2014, 9:02 pm)AdamY Wrote: Seats, quite possibly when you take into consideration that deckers were certainly more prominent then. But, as Kuyoyo correctly asserts, there are more buses per hour between Chester and Newcastle now than there were in 1989.

Dunno where my post went - went to edit it, cos I quickly did some sums on current services to Chester and re-word the post!

Aye, more between Chester and Newcastle, but less along Durham Road and fewer between Birtley, Low Fell and Newcastle.

There was also the hourly 727 between Newgate Street and Barley Mow to add to the list.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(28 Feb 2014, 8:07 pm)andreos1 Wrote: You forgot the hourly 231 and 724.
Granted going from your figures, it appears there are more buses through Low Fell to Chester - but these are at the expense of the local (and half hourly) 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 (10 buses through Low Fell alone with those 5 services).

You also forgot the hourly x46 to Crook.

So your 5 per hour - plus the 231, 724 and x46 is?
Plus the 10 local services...

In addition to that, passengers had the 721, 725 and 726 via Old Durham Road to Chester.

The 735 terminated initially in Seaham, but then went as far as Houghton, running at the opposite side of the hour to the 231.

My figures originally only included Go Ahead Northern (or joint services with United/Arriva), as you only mentioned the 21, hence why the 724 was omitted along with the X46. The original 727 you mention later was a competition service operated by OK Travel.

I also omitted the Old Durham Road services as I did said Durham Road. Of course the 725/726 does not operate anymore, but the X25 has took it place.

If you are talking about Durham Road, currently you will need to include the service 1 (2 per hour), so not that much difference between now and then to be honest.

And thanks for jogging my memory in where the 735 terminated.
Just out of curiosity, how about someone doing the same exercise on the Old Durham Road corridor.....with X1's and 56 every ten minutes along with other services, has Old Durham Road had an increase or decrease in the amount of services?
(28 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm)citaro5284 Wrote: Just out of curiosity, how about someone doing the same exercise on the Old Durham Road corridor.....with X1's and 56 every ten minutes along with other services, has Old Durham Road had an increase or decrease in the amount of services?

I'll do it when I get back in the house tonight using the same timetable set.
(28 Feb 2014, 10:43 pm)citaro5284 Wrote: My figures originally only included Go Ahead Northern (or joint services with United/Arriva), as you only mentioned the 21, hence why the 724 was omitted along with the X46. The original 727 you mention later was a competition service operated by OK Travel.

I also omitted the Old Durham Road services as I did said Durham Road. Of course the 725/726 does not operate anymore, but the X25 has took it place.

If you are talking about Durham Road, currently you will need to include the service 1 (2 per hour), so not that much difference between now and then to be honest.

And thanks for jogging my memory in where the 735 terminated.

Yes, I know we were discussing Durham Road - I threw the Old Durham Road svcs as an extra big info (just like the 735 info).

I also agree, there isn't much difference per hour now, but there is less along Durham Road inc choice of destinations.

(28 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm)citaro5284 Wrote: Just out of curiosity, how about someone doing the same exercise on the Old Durham Road corridor.....with X1's and 56 every ten minutes along with other services, has Old Durham Road had an increase or decrease in the amount of services?

51
52
56
57
58
59
60? Cant remember if this went to Bill Quay via Sunderland Rd or Old Durham Rd
187
188
189
648
649
721
725
726
x4
x5
x94

There may be others I have missed and not too sure about frequency of all routes.
Some were every 20mins, others less so.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(28 Feb 2014, 11:46 pm)andreos1 Wrote: Yes, I know we were discussing Durham Road - I threw the Old Durham Road svcs as an extra big info (just like the 735 info).

I also agree, there isn't much difference per hour now, but there is less along Durham Road inc choice of destinations.


51
52
56
57
58
59
60? Cant remember if this went to Bill Quay via Sunderland Rd or Old Durham Rd
187
188
189
648
649
721
725
726
x4
x5
x94

There may be others I have missed and not too sure about frequency of all routes.
Some were every 20mins, others less so.

X2, X3, X85, X90, X95, 189?
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For the purposes of this exercise, I will only include services which run the full length of Old Durham Road between Gateshead and Wrekenton as I feel that this makes for fairer (and easier) comparison. I also won't include the 727 as OK Travel did not fall under the Northern umbrella at the time.

So, currently, we have the 28, 56, X1 and X25 totalling 15 buses per hour. In June 1989, the following services operated:

56: Newcastle - Springwell Estate(every 10 mins)
187: Gateshead - Sunderland (hourly)
188: Gateshead - Sunderland (hourly)
189: Newcastle - Brady Square (hourly)
721: Newcastle - Chester-le-Street (hourly)
725: Newcastle - East Hedleyhope (hourly)
726: Newcastle - Witton Gilbert (hourly)
X4: Newcastle - Sunderland (hourly)
X5: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly)
X94: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly)

So 15 buses per hour ran between Gateshead and Wrekenton; the same amount as today.

I also have the same timetable for November 1997 so I might as well chuck this in here for comparison too.

56: (every ten minutes)
187: (hourly)
188: (hourly)
189: (half-hourly)
721: (hourly)
725: (hourly)
726: (hourly)
777: Newcastle - Sunderland (hourly)
X4: (hourly)
X5: (hourly)
X90: Newcastle - Ryhope (hourly)
X94: (hourly)

In total, this makes 18 buses per hour for November 1997.
(01 Mar 2014, 12:55 am)AdamY Wrote: So 15 buses per hour ran between Gateshead and Wrekenton; the same amount as today.

Thanks Adam. On another note, BBC is running a report about how the elderly and disabled could lose bus services - link below

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26385176
(01 Mar 2014, 12:55 am)AdamY Wrote: For the purposes of this exercise, I will only include services which run the full length of Old Durham Road between Gateshead and Wrekenton as I feel that this makes for fairer (and easier) comparison. I also won't include the 727 as OK Travel did not fall under the Northern umbrella at the time.

So, currently, we have the 28, 56, X1 and X25 totalling 15 buses per hour. In June 1989, the following services operated:

56: Newcastle - Springwell Estate(every 10 mins)
187: Gateshead - Sunderland (hourly)
188: Gateshead - Sunderland (hourly)
189: Newcastle - Brady Square (hourly)
721: Newcastle - Chester-le-Street (hourly)
725: Newcastle - East Hedleyhope (hourly)
726: Newcastle - Witton Gilbert (hourly)
X4: Newcastle - Sunderland (hourly)
X5: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly)
X94: Newcastle - Hartlepool (hourly)

So 15 buses per hour ran between Gateshead and Wrekenton; the same amount as today.

I also have the same timetable for November 1997 so I might as well chuck this in here for comparison too.

56: (every ten minutes)
187: (hourly)
188: (hourly)
189: (half-hourly)
721: (hourly)
725: (hourly)
726: (hourly)
777: Newcastle - Sunderland (hourly)
X4: (hourly)
X5: (hourly)
X90: Newcastle - Ryhope (hourly)
X94: (hourly)

In total, this makes 18 buses per hour for November 1997.

There was also the 51/52 - which ran between Gateshead and Wrekenton via Old Durham rd but deviated off via Beacon Lough rd and Easedale Gardens.
'Illegitimis non carborundum'
(01 Mar 2014, 9:19 am)andreos1 Wrote: There was also the 51/52 - which ran between Gateshead and Wrekenton via Old Durham rd but deviated off via Beacon Lough rd and Easedale Gardens.

I know. However, because of the slight deviation, I didn't include the 51/52 as it wouldn't have been a direct comparison between services running the full length of Old Durham Road.

It would be hard to compare the two services now as the route has significantly changed. To make it fair, the 27 would also have to be included. In 1989, the 51/52 operated every half hour as did the 27, so there's a further 4 buses per hour between Gateshead and Wrekenton. However, the current 51/52 runs every 15 minutes so the amount of buses per hour between Gateshead and Wrekenton remains the same.