Count themselves lucky, I don't get my breaks paid at work, and I'm lucky if I manage to take my full break as I'm normally interupted during them to answer a phonecall or to solve an issue because the newer member of staff aren't sure how to sort it or it's a customer being a general pain in the arse and not accepting the word of the newer staff member and wants to hear it from someone who has worked their longer.
(14 Sep 2023, 12:41 pm)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]The PR is so weird. The 'regions largest bus operator' - why is it in there?! It's irrelevant. The statements make me utterly cringe and I'm not sure who they're aimed at. The public have zero trust in the organisation and you're not going to a bus operators site to read a PR statement on strike action. They're more than happy to front up on this but not on the actual horrendous service levels they currently offer
The attack on terms and conditions is often a deal breaker vs actual cash (which is what we're seeing in the railway strike)
It's a bizarre way to conduct industrial relations. We all know that there'll be internal comms that come out during a dispute, and that's an employer's prerogative, but it's mind-blowing to see one played out in the public domain. They should really stick to responding to comment from the media, rather than writing their own tabloid-style press releases.
Being on the TU side, I've never been adverse to
reviewing terms and conditions, but those talks almost exclusively never came to fruition. Most employers, in my experience, only ever want to talk about driving down terms and conditions, without looking on the other hand of where they could improve things. A workforce is never going to accept an erosion of terms and conditions for nothing, which is why unscrupulous employers try and tie changes into pay deals.
Looking at the paid meal break example. If say someone is working 260 shifts a year, and they've got a 30 minute paid meal break, then that's a cut of almost £1,600 to them on that £12.83p/h figure. That 9.1% pay increase suddenly doesn't sound so generous.
(14 Sep 2023, 12:51 pm)mb134 wrote [ -> ]The wording of the statement ("Bosses at the firm") reads much more like something you'd find in a tabloid than an official communication from a company.
It's quite an aggressive way of writing in third person. "Bosses at the firm", when signed off by the boss of the firm?
(14 Sep 2023, 4:59 pm)Rapidsnap wrote [ -> ]Count themselves lucky, I don't get my breaks paid at work, and I'm lucky if I manage to take my full break as I'm normally interupted during them to answer a phonecall or to solve an issue because the newer member of staff aren't sure how to sort it or it's a customer being a general pain in the arse and not accepting the word of the newer staff member and wants to hear it from someone who has worked their longer.
It's not a race to the bottom though, is it? You might not want to fight for decent rights at work, but others do.
Depending on how long your shift is, you likely have a right to an uninterrupted break:
https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work
I thought GNE breaks were un-paid untill after 30 mins where after that they will be paid its not their fault that on the shfit they're on they get an hour and 15 min break.
I wonder how long is the longest break is inbetween driving
(14 Sep 2023, 6:02 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]I thought GNE breaks were un-paid untill after 30 mins where after that they will be paid its not their fault that on the shfit they're on they get an hour and 15 min break.
I wonder how long is the longest break is inbetween driving
Historically, conditions were not standardised and varied on a depot-to-depot basis. In each depot's establishment, there are rotas for drivers who are on paid meal breaks and those on unpaid meal breaks; in most depots, the rotas for unpaid meal breaks are larger than those for paid meal breaks, although this has been facilitated through the departure of older drivers on historic conditions and the influx of newer drivers on newer conditions.
As an example, at Chester, there was one large unpaid breaks rota, a paid breaks rota - which got progressively smaller as old hands left - and a 4 day rota with unpaid breaks only. At Gateshead, by comparison, there are paid and unpaid breaks for both the Green Rota (historically Sunderland Road routes in and around eastern Gateshead, with changeovers at Gateshead Metro) and the Red Rota (predominantly ex-Winlaton stuff, with the exception of the 49s etc; driver changeovers at the Metrocentre). Both the Green and Red Rotas have subsidiary 4 day rotas, with each having paid and unpaid lines in accordance with drivers' conditions.
Nowadays, most drivers across the company are on standardised terms and conditions with unpaid meal breaks, however, some - mostly longer serving drivers - are on paid meal breaks. With time, paid meal breaks have become the minority in most depots. Deptford is an exception to this rule, with a higher proportion of drivers having paid meal breaks.
I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
(14 Sep 2023, 8:24 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
They are different measures of inflation, not separate. RPI is effectively an upper limit measure of inflation.
RPI includes some of the aspects of CPI, but also includes aspects relating to house prices.
(14 Sep 2023, 8:24 pm)Malarkey wrote [ -> ]I'm confused regarding this statement.
Go North East business director, Ben Maxfield, said, “The two most talked about inflation measures, CPI and RPI are currently running at 6.4% and 9.0% respectively. Our offer of 9.11% beats both these figures and means our driver pay package will be among the very best in the region.
When CPI and RPI =15.4% combined as i'm sure are meant to be calculated together, how does Go North East's offer of 9.11% beat both of the figures stated as it looks to me like they are only going off of CPI.
No, they are not combined, 2 different indexes.
(14 Sep 2023, 8:32 pm)citaro5284 wrote [ -> ]No, theyic are not combined, 2 different indexes.
And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
The current hourly rate is £12.83 - when increased by 9.1% this would become £14.00 per hour, an increase of £1.17 per hour which, on a 39 hour week, is an extra £45.63 per week.
A much bigger increase than many other workers will get this year, and on top of a 10% plus increase last year.
Is the main issue that GNE drivers get paid for more of their mealbreaks than Arriva and Stagecoach do?
So an Arriva or Stagecoach driver does more driving in the 39 hours that they are paid for than a GNE driver?
Someone in an earlier post mentioned minimum wage - it's £10.42 per hour btw.
(14 Sep 2023, 9:29 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
The Government doesn't like RPI, because it doesn't mask the problem. RPI includes everything in cost of living; mortgage interest, rent increases, housing costs and council tax to name a few, all of which are shooting up.
To emphasise this point, you'll find that when the Government want money from you, they'll always calculate the increase using RPI... see here an example:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/stude...ncement--4
If you're negotiating a pay deal on behalf of members, I'm not sure why you'd be expected to use an index that excludes some of the biggest costs members will have? It would be nonsensical.
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(14 Sep 2023, 9:29 pm)busmanT wrote [ -> ]And RPI was been dropped as an official national statistic some time ago.
If RPI is not relevant, then why are GNE including it in an official statement? They can't have it both ways.
So in terms of meal breaks, on low cost which is what most new drivers, and low cost depots are on it’s an hour a day, if you get onto paid rota it’s 30 mins.
If you’re ex Arriva or similar and we’re tupe’d in you are on paid meal breaks. Historically tupe’d drivers have always tended to be an afterthought in pay talks as they want them off their tupe’d terms and conditions and onto standard contracts.
I’m just thankful I’m out of it now, but fair play to the lads and lasses sticking up for their rights. I’m not sure what standardisation they are talking about but it smacks of go aheads hatchet man Nigel’s previous attempts at GNW, and we knew this was coming 3-4 years ago, and other depots laughed at us saying it wouldn’t happen here.
(15 Sep 2023, 6:12 am)xpm wrote [ -> ]So in terms of meal breaks, on low cost which is what most new drivers, and low cost depots are on it’s an hour a day, if you get onto paid rota it’s 30 mins.
If you’re ex Arriva or similar and we’re tupe’d in you are on paid meal breaks. Historically tupe’d drivers have always tended to be an afterthought in pay talks as they want them off their tupe’d terms and conditions and onto standard contracts.
I’m just thankful I’m out of it now, but fair play to the lads and lasses sticking up for their rights. I’m not sure what standardisation they are talking about but it smacks of go aheads hatchet man Nigel’s previous attempts at GNW, and we knew this was coming 3-4 years ago, and other depots laughed at us saying it wouldn’t happen here.
“Low cost” was abolished in last year’s pay deal where some drivers were given a 25%+ pay increase.
All the drivers on this rota were moved from 1hr unpaid to 30 minutes.
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(15 Sep 2023, 6:12 am)xpm wrote [ -> ]So in terms of meal breaks, on low cost which is what most new drivers, and low cost depots are on it’s an hour a day, if you get onto paid rota it’s 30 mins.
If you’re ex Arriva or similar and we’re tupe’d in you are on paid meal breaks. Historically tupe’d drivers have always tended to be an afterthought in pay talks as they want them off their tupe’d terms and conditions and onto standard contracts.
I’m just thankful I’m out of it now, but fair play to the lads and lasses sticking up for their rights. I’m not sure what standardisation they are talking about but it smacks of go aheads hatchet man Nigel’s previous attempts at GNW, and we knew this was coming 3-4 years ago, and other depots laughed at us saying it wouldn’t happen here.
To be honest, I thought this would be down to NF. But after reading all of the spin that's been put out, I'm of the definate opinion, this is all down to BM.
There's no way NF would pin all this on to someone else after the shit shows in Employee Relations at both AY or GNW.
I mean, what sort of person would do that to someone who has almost been a disciple to him for the last however many years?
No, this has definitely got BM written all over it.
One thing that's always interested me is the low cost units surely are illegal.
It's literally the same problem which the councils are going through, I don't understand how legally someone can be paid a different wage for doing the exact same job as someone else in the same company.
Surprised there hasn't been a claim in for it and wanting money reimbursed. Would be a right hot mess aswell.
(15 Sep 2023, 7:25 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]One thing that's always interested me is the low cost units surely are illegal.
It's literally the same problem which the councils are going through, I don't understand how legally someone can be paid a different wage for doing the exact same job as someone else in the same company.
Surprised there hasn't been a claim in for it and wanting money reimbursed. Would be a right hot mess aswell.
Because management love their employees infighting amongst themselves so it deflects some of the attention from the company. It used to be on the basis that some drivers/depots only ran council contracted routes so there wasn't enough money in the pot to pay them more money that drivers on commercially viable routes got.
@Dan - sorry I've been out of it for nearly 2 years now - at least a little has changed then.
@Andreos1 - Leopard changing his spots - Nah don't think so
(15 Sep 2023, 9:50 am)xpm wrote [ -> ]Because management love their employees infighting amongst themselves so it deflects some of the attention from the company. It used to be on the basis that some drivers/depots only ran council contracted routes so there wasn't enough money in the pot to pay them more money that drivers on commercially viable routes got.
@Dan - sorry I've been out of it for nearly 2 years now - at least a little has changed then.
@Andreos1 - Leopard changing his spots - Nah don't think so
Aye thought that was the case. Not sure how well that would stack up in court though mind. You drive this Streetlite and you drive that Streetlite but because this route is a council contract you're paid less.
Sounds like a right equal pay problem to me, no wonder they ditched it before it with the stuff coming out now.
They're doing exactly the same job without doubt imo
I think the equal pay thing is a red herring, I always thought it was only if there was discrimination against a protected characteristic? A well known case a few year ago involved Birmingham Council. The Bin Men, predominantly male, were paid more than Dinner Ladies, predominantly female. The Dinner Ladies argued that their work was of equal value to the Bin Men and so should be paid the same. They won.
It's not uncommon for companies in any industry to alter their contracts to new staff. I was always under the impression that a hangover of the split of Go Ahead Northern and then bringing it all back under GNE was that GNE were left with a dizzying amount of pay scales/terms/conditions etc which over the years they've moved to harmonise.
(15 Sep 2023, 7:08 am)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]To be honest, I thought this would be down to NF. But after reading all of the spin that's been put out, I'm of the definate opinion, this is all down to BM.
There's no way NF would pin all this on to someone else after the shit shows in Employee Relations at both AY or GNW.
I mean, what sort of person would do that to someone who has almost been a disciple to him for the last however many years?
No, this has definitely got BM written all over it.
I'm not so sure. After the GNW fiasco, it'd probably suit NF to have someone else willing to play bad cop. I'd suspect he's still the organ grinder.
(15 Sep 2023, 7:25 am)Storx wrote [ -> ]One thing that's always interested me is the low cost units surely are illegal.
It's literally the same problem which the councils are going through, I don't understand how legally someone can be paid a different wage for doing the exact same job as someone else in the same company.
Surprised there hasn't been a claim in for it and wanting money reimbursed. Would be a right hot mess aswell.
It's not. The equal pay claims are based on women not only being paid less, but being employed on less favourable terms, e.g. being excluded from bonus and pension schemes.
Whilst having two tier workforces like low cost units is divisive, it's not outlawed. If it was only women employed to low cost units however, then there'd be an equal pay claim in that.
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Also if they were working in a lower paid unit assuming that meant Peterlee Depot wasn't it there choice to work there, they could have moved