North East Buses

Ah so probs PR release Monday e.g drivers bad, we good another flawless PR piece, then Friday timetables

Been sent this. It's from a GNE employee. 
Unable to attach a screenshot since the last site update, so copied/pasted. 

Where are your cherubs? Why is my bus late?
I ask as Last night people going about their own business were assaulted by YOUR kids!
Not unusual for bus drivers to have buses smashed, spat at, assaulted, swore at, bricks /boulders thrown from bridges threw windows and even shot at (just the other week, a drivers lucky to save his eye.)
But last night drivers on their breaks were punched, kicked, tried to set them on fire, missiles launched and they smashed down a locked door to the canteen in the Galleries Bus Station to threaten to stab them.
So when you ask why your bus is late / not turned up / drivers a miserable git.
Thank these parents, the results is nobody wants to do the job, the injured drivers went home after being assaulted, resulting in no bus running.
So when we go on strike remember this is just 1 reason!
we want a pay rise and equal pay (ours is the lowest paid depot in the NE)
Show your support to those who try to give the best they can in difficult circumstances!
#share if you care

It's an interesting perspective.

absolutely disgraceful, should be put on FB

(19 Sep 2023, 8:18 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I can't see it being anything other than last minute. It's almost impossible for them to have an accurate idea of what resource is available to them, other than the bare minimum; that being managers they hold over a barrel to strike break, or the usual scabs who are happy to do the dirty on their colleagues, whilst reaping the reward that any outcome brings.

Bare in mind that there's no obligation for an employee to tell the company whether they intend to strike or not. They can ask, but you're not obliged to answer at all. I'd always recommend my members to say nothing.

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I think it's optimistic to think there will be any service at all. Can see a total shut down personally. It's easy to scab drivers when it's only one depot like Stagecoach but across the whole company I can't see them bothering to get managers to run 2 routes or so as it's all your going to get realistically. Not to mention the complete headaches of it all.

(19 Sep 2023, 9:10 pm)Andreos1 wrote [ -> ]Been sent this. It's from a GNE employee. 
Unable to attach a screenshot since the last site update, so copied/pasted. 


It's an interesting perspective.

Very. I've seen the same post and another in a Washington group.

The Galleries Bus Station is almost becoming a no-go zone, but we know it's not the only place. It's happening all over, and once one hot spot is closed down, another is found.

It's taken Metro to have private security patrols on every train, which can't be sustainable in the long term.

The level of Policing is shocking. 13 years of austerity plays a big part, but it's not the knly issue here.

Operators also need to do more, as they have a duty of care to their staff, if nothing else. If places like the Galleries Bus Station are a no-go area on an evening, then put your own security on or pull services until authorities are prepared to step up and tackle the issue.

It feels like no one is willing to talk to each other, and sadly, it's the drivers in the firing line.

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Witherwack shops has had the 16 service withdrawn after 18.00.

(19 Sep 2023, 10:45 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]Very. I've seen the same post and another in a Washington group.

The Galleries Bus Station is almost becoming a no-go zone, but we know it's not the only place. It's happening all over, and once one hot spot is closed down, another is found.

It's taken Metro to have private security patrols on every train, which can't be sustainable in the long term.

The level of Policing is shocking. 13 years of austerity plays a big part, but it's not the knly issue here.

Operators also need to do more, as they have a duty of care to their staff, if nothing else. If places like the Galleries Bus Station are a no-go area on an evening, then put your own security on or pull services until authorities are prepared to step up and tackle the issue.

It feels like no one is willing to talk to each other, and sadly, it's the drivers in the firing line.

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There's only so much they can do, unfortunately. Staff shouldn't be putting themselves at risk, and we're taught this extensively in retail as well. If we do we're open to ridicule on social media because society is so woke and people think 'I can do what I want'. It's about cost, do you seriously expect them to integrate security on buses and not be able to fund a pay rise? 

I think everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of striking, first the train drivers and now the whole country is effectively striking. We've all got these amazing ideas of why not hire more nurses, hire more bus drivers, security on trains, or why not give us more money? It's not that they don't want to hire staff, they're jobs people don't particularly want to do! A lot of youngens are leaving school and end up working on construction sites, as simple as that.

But can we just take a step back and look at the mess this country is in at the moment. Every company is struggling financially, it might not seem it but that's why they have massive cash piles in case of a lawsuit or a recession. 

I don't mean to sound mean, it's just fact.

(20 Sep 2023, 7:56 pm)itsadam wrote [ -> ]There's only so much they can do, unfortunately. Staff shouldn't be putting themselves at risk, and we're taught this extensively in retail as well. If we do we're open to ridicule on social media because society is so woke and people think 'I can do what I want'. It's about cost, do you seriously expect them to integrate security on buses and not be able to fund a pay rise? 

I think everyone is jumping on the bandwagon of striking, first the train drivers and now the whole country is effectively striking. We've all got these amazing ideas of why not hire more nurses, hire more bus drivers, security on trains, or why not give us more money? It's not that they don't want to hire staff, they're jobs people don't particularly want to do! A lot of youngens are leaving school and end up working on construction sites, as simple as that.

But can we just take a step back and look at the mess this country is in at the moment. Every company is struggling financially, it might not seem it but that's why they have massive cash piles in case of a lawsuit or a recession. 

I don't mean to sound mean, it's just fact.

To respond on a couple of points -

I suggested security at the Galleries Bus Station. They have rest/canteen facilities for drivers there, and it's far from uncommon for workplaces to have a security presence. Following the incident the other night, it should be considered a must, even just on a temporary basis. And I do seriously expect them to take the safety of their employees seriously.

On 'everyone jumping on a strike bandwagon', it may seem like that, but most of us who have either spent time out on strike or have ran disputes, the issues are broadly similar: workers being asked to pay the cost of a pandemic and cost of living crisis, staffing being cut to the brim and either pensions or terms attacked. For most of these people on strike; doctors, nurses, paramedics, train drivers, bus drivers, they spent the best part of the last 3 years being hailed as heroes of a pandemic. But its not only the past 3 years, its more than a decade of below inflation or frozen pay, which has all come to a head now.

Placing buses and train drivers to one side for a moment, the vast majority of these other roles, people would love to get into them. Nursing in particular, has always been a sought-after and rewarding role, with a career for an institution that looked after you for life. Again, decimated through austerity, staffing cuts and attacks on pensions, pay and terms. Applications in particular dropped by almost half, once the Government scrapped the bursary that was available to train and become a nurse. The same applies for doctors really. You've got roles that are highly skilled, require extensive education, yet education, through the rise of tuition fees, has been taken out of reach of a lot of people.

As for taking a step back, let's look at Go Ahead for example, seeing as this thread I'd about the GNE strike. Christian Schreyer, as Group CEO, is currently taking £8,333 per month in a relocation allowance*. This is on top of an annual salary of £550,000. That relocation allowance alone is worth nearly 100k a year, which is almost 4x what a new starter will likely earn with GNE... and they don't have the whopping salary to add to it.

So when you say 'every company is struggling', it's funny how they always find money for those at the top...

* see corporate governance report: https://www.go-ahead.com/download_file/view/1853/676

Also Park Lane, Consett, Stanley, Metrocentre, Gateshead not sure Eldon Square or Haymarket and I assume Whitely Bay all do I have security I know the first 5 do, so why not the Galleries its the only one missing

(20 Sep 2023, 8:29 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]Also Park Lane, Consett, Stanley, Metrocentre, Gateshead not sure Eldon Square or Haymarket and I assume Whitely Bay all do I have security I know the first 5 do, so why not the Galleries its the only one missing

The Galleries Bus Station isn't Nexus owned or managed. It's owned by Prudential, who own the Galleries. GNE used to manage it to a degree, but that has long since disappeared.

More recently, the Galleries have added a security guard for a couple hours, but most of them are as useless as a water pistol with your house on fire.

Regardless of 'who's responsibility it is', it doesn't negate the duty of care an employer has to it's employees.

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(20 Sep 2023, 8:21 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]To respond on a couple of points -

I suggested security at the Galleries Bus Station. They have rest/canteen facilities for drivers there, and it's far from uncommon for workplaces to have a security presence. Following the incident the other night, it should be considered a must, even just on a temporary basis. And I do seriously expect them to take the safety of their employees seriously.

On 'everyone jumping on a strike bandwagon',  it may seem like that, but most of us who have  either spent time out on strike or have ran disputes, the issues are broadly similar: workers being asked to pay the cost of a pandemic and cost of living crisis, staffing being cut to the brim and either pensions or terms attacked. For most of these people on strike; doctors, nurses, paramedics, train drivers, bus drivers, they spent the best part of the last 3 years being hailed as heroes of a pandemic. But its not only the past 3 years, its more than a decade of below inflation or frozen pay, which has all come to a head now.

Placing buses and train drivers to one side for a moment, the vast majority of these other roles, people would love to get into them. Nursing in particular, has always been a sought-after and rewarding role, with a career for an institution that looked after you for life. Again, decimated through austerity, staffing cuts and attacks on pensions, pay and terms. Applications in particular dropped by almost half, once the Government scrapped the bursary that was available to train and become a nurse. The same applies for doctors really. You've got roles that are highly skilled, require extensive education, yet education, through the rise of tuition fees, has been taken out of reach of a lot of people.

As for taking a step back, let's look at Go Ahead for example, seeing as this thread I'd about the GNE strike. Christian Schreyer, as Group CEO, is currently taking £8,333 per month in a relocation allowance*. This is on top of an annual salary of £550,000. That relocation allowance alone is worth nearly 100k a year, which is almost 4x what a new starter will likely earn with GNE... and they don't have the whopping salary to add to it.

So when you say 'every company is struggling', it's funny how they always find money for those at the top...

* see corporate governance report: https://www.go-ahead.com/download_file/view/1853/676

What should Christian Schreyer be earning?

(20 Sep 2023, 8:57 pm)DeltaMan wrote [ -> ]What should Christian Schreyer be earning?

Something more representative of other salaries paid by the company?

You can't cry poverty on one hand and dish it out to the top 1% with the other. It's why we have such a problem with inequality.

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At that sort of salary plus allowance, you would expect him to work miracles across the entire group.

(20 Sep 2023, 7:56 pm)itsadam wrote [ -> ]There's only so much they can do, unfortunately. Staff shouldn't be putting themselves at risk, and we're taught this extensively in retail as well. If we do we're open to ridicule on social media because society is so woke and people think 'I can do what I want'.

Surely if society was so 'woke' people would be more sympathetic on social media, not ridiculing the plight of a shop worker who decided to take action and put themselves in harms way?

Presuming you haven't just heard the term bandied around in a derogatory tone without any real context attached, what do you think 'woke' means?

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(20 Sep 2023, 10:04 pm)BusLoverMum wrote [ -> ]At that sort of salary plus allowance, you would expect him to work miracles across the entire group.

And this is before getting on to his bonus, which was over 500k, in the current annual report, for a part year served as CEO.

I don't accept that a company is struggling when they can pay one person almost £1 million in a year. Its obscene.

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Thats the reality of capitalism - he's doing his job well to an extent the wider group is making profit. In scale, you could argue his pay isn't in line with the profit he returns.

On a side note of irony, holding the ACAS talks on World Car Free Day is delicious

(21 Sep 2023, 10:36 am)Ambassador wrote [ -> ]Thats the reality of capitalism - he's doing his job well to an extent the wider group is making profit. In scale, you could argue his pay isn't in line with the profit he returns.

On a side note of irony, holding the ACAS talks on World Car Free Day is delicious

I'm not against the company (or any other) doing well. It's of course needed to create jobs, but this is against the backdrop of this quote "Go North East made losses of £4.3m in its most recently published accounts and a key sticking point in the talks has been the need to address this by modernising some working practices across its six depots."

The company are making losses, so they've decided that it's the lowest paid that need to suffer for it. Not those raking in big time.

I wonder if it's a modern working practice to pay someone £8,333 a month in relocation allowance, on top of a £550,000 annual salary to live on? He must have been really struggling to make ends meet!

(21 Sep 2023, 10:47 am)Adrian wrote [ -> ]I'm not against the company (or any other) doing well. It's of course needed to create jobs, but this is against the backdrop of this quote "Go North East made losses of £4.3m in its most recently published accounts and a key sticking point in the talks has been the need to address this by modernising some working practices across its six depots."

The company are making losses, so they've decided that it's the lowest paid that need to suffer for it. Not those raking in big time. 

I wonder if it's a modern working practice to pay someone £8,333 a month in relocation allowance, on top of a £550,000 annual salary to live on? He must have been really struggling to make ends meet!

The bonkers thing being, that those being rewarded handsomely are the ones who are messing the company (or divisions) up and helping influence those losses. This isn't just about CS, although on that salary, I'd expect him to do something constructive about the loss making side of things.

Whilst those being paid the least are the customer facing drivers, bearing the brunt of the repeatedly poor decision making.

Just been reading through the comments on the GNE facebook page about the strike action. A common theme is the disagreement is more T&Cs rather than just money, with comments that breaks will be shorter and more of it will be unpaid. The one that caught my eye though was 'drivers will be forced to work 50hrs a week...' What's that all about?

(21 Sep 2023, 12:12 pm)Chris 1 wrote [ -> ]Just been reading through the comments on the GNE facebook page about the strike action.  A common theme is the disagreement is more T&Cs rather than just money, with comments that breaks will be shorter and more of it will be unpaid.  The one that caught my eye though was 'drivers will be forced to work 50hrs a week...' What's that all about?

I assume it will be longer shifts (similar to the current 4 day shifts) with more and longer unpaid breaks. That said when you sign up your asked if you want to opt out of the 48 hour (I think it is) working week (so you can do overtime). 

Those on paid meal breaks could change to unpaid meal breaks with last year's pay rise meaning they got a higher hourly rate for essentially selling the meal breaks back to the company. 

Realistically, is it even possible to get every driver at every depot on the same pay, terms and conditions? I'm sure it was said when I was there that Riverside have the highest hourly rate but nobody there has paid meal breaks as they gave them up for the higher rate per hour.

I wonder why the salary of those higher up the food chain, NF et al aren't questioned when there is pay talks. Surely it's his decisions or his say so on decisions that have led to the poor company preformance/lack of profits? Drivers can only drive the vehicles given at the times they are told to run. Not their fault if nobody sees that as an alternative to car travel.

(21 Sep 2023, 2:03 pm)morritt89 wrote [ -> ]I assume it will be longer shifts (similar to the current 4 day shifts) with more and longer unpaid breaks. That said when you sign up your asked if you want to opt out of the 48 hour (I think it is) working week (so you can do overtime). 

Those on paid meal breaks could change to unpaid meal breaks with last year's pay rise meaning they got a higher hourly rate for essentially selling the meal breaks back to the company. 

Realistically, is it even possible to get every driver at every depot on the same pay, terms and conditions? I'm sure it was said when I was there that Riverside have the highest hourly rate but nobody there has paid meal breaks as they gave them up for the higher rate per hour.

I wonder why the salary of those higher up the food chain, NF et al aren't questioned when there is pay talks. Surely it's his decisions or his say so on decisions that have led to the poor company preformance/lack of profits? Drivers can only drive the vehicles given at the times they are told to run. Not their fault if nobody sees that as an alternative to car travel.

It can be tricky yeah, because even if you agreed through collective bargaining to do it now, there's always the possibility you'll win a big piece of work and then take new drivers in on TUPE terms. This, I suspect, will be more common in a world of franchising.

The problem that I see, is that people like NF always think that they're doing a great job, when the reality is that they probably have little clue what it's like on the ground. To be frank, a lot of customers are sick to the back teeth of bus operators at the minute. Yet very little of that is down to the actions or responsibility of the person behind the wheel, who usually takes the flack.

(21 Sep 2023, 2:15 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It can be tricky yeah, because even if you agreed through collective bargaining to do it now, there's always the possibility you'll win a big piece of work and then take new drivers in on TUPE terms. This, I suspect, will be more common in a world of franchising.

The problem that I see, is that people like NF always think that they're doing a great job, when the reality is that they probably have little clue what it's like on the ground. To be frank, a lot of customers are sick to the back teeth of bus operators at the minute. Yet very little of that is down to the actions or responsibility of the person behind the wheel, who usually takes the flack.

It's funny that you mention TUPE. When GNE cancelled my contract (I used to do the 4274 Coxhoe scholars) I, in theory could have stayed with the contract and went to the new operator (JH I believe) but GNE management didn't know how TUPE worked (it was also suggested to the Union as an option) but instead I wad paid off.

The thing with NF is he has a reputation but those who hired him must know something or think he is good. I had the misfortune of working at Arriva when he was there too. Is what is happening now at GNE a watered down version of what he did at GNW with fire and rehire (without the firing and rehiring)? 

Each operator has their own advantages and disadvantages to work for (hourly rate, depot location, minimum guaranteed hours etc) but if these were all broadly similar would that help the situation rather than a race to the bottom with terms and conditions? I know of a driver who went from GNE and straight onto his preferred rota (splits) at Stagecoach.

(21 Sep 2023, 3:05 pm)morritt89 wrote [ -> ] It's funny that you mention TUPE. When GNE cancelled my contract (I used to do the 4274 Coxhoe scholars) I, in theory could have stayed with the contract and went to the new operator (JH I believe) but GNE management didn't know how TUPE worked (it was also suggested to the Union as an option) but instead I wad paid off. 

The thing with NF is he has a reputation but those who hired him must know something or think he is good. I had the misfortune of working at Arriva when he was there too. Is what is happening now at GNE a watered down version of what he did at GNW with fire and rehire (without the firing and rehiring)? 

Each operator has their own advantages and disadvantages to work for (hourly rate, depot location, minimum guaranteed hours etc) but if these were all broadly similar would that help the situation rather than a race to the bottom with terms and conditions? I know of a driver who went from GNE and straight onto his preferred rota (splits) at Stagecoach.

That's appalling. 
Genuinely shocked that the transfer wasn't completed or the group didn't know/seek out info on TUPE. 

Mind, it wouldn't have been half bad if you got the money and then got a job with JH or elsewhere straight off. 
Just the uncertainty in between.

Im not totally surprised at GNE and the tupe piece.

Nigel is there to cut costs and GNE is run on the cheap, you only need to look at the management team in place, they’re cheap and effective at doing what they’re told. There’s probably some decent people in there but they’re not well lead and haven’t been for ages.

Be interested to see what the new bus CEO at Go Ahead does.

(21 Sep 2023, 2:15 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]It can be tricky yeah, because even if you agreed through collective bargaining to do it now, there's always the possibility you'll win a big piece of work and then take new drivers in on TUPE terms. This, I suspect, will be more common in a world of franchising.

The problem that I see, is that people like NF always think that they're doing a great job, when the reality is that they probably have little clue what it's like on the ground. To be frank, a lot of customers are sick to the back teeth of bus operators at the minute. Yet very little of that is down to the actions or responsibility of the person behind the wheel, who usually takes the flack.

In London, I know they've all agreed a rule within the franchisee agreements that any TUPE employees are guaranteed their current rate for 6 months, which was approved with the unions, then drop down to their new employers terms after that.

There's big problems with a few Arriva London drivers as they're being told to TUPE to another operator, who pay less, so don't want to but if they stay with Arriva they lose all their employment status and work as effectively as a new driver since there's no work for them.

Assume it'd be similar up here under franchising.

(21 Sep 2023, 6:06 pm)Storx wrote [ -> ]In London, I know they've all agreed a rule within the franchisee agreements that any TUPE employees are guaranteed their current rate for 6 months, which was approved with the unions, then drop down to their new employers terms after that.

There's big problems with a few Arriva London drivers as they're being told to TUPE to another operator, who pay less, so don't want to but if they stay with Arriva they lose all their employment status and work as effectively as a new driver since there's no work for them.

Assume it'd be similar up here under franchising.

That's interesting, and something I understood to be illegal? The incoming employer usually isn't allowed to make changes to someone's contract as a result of the transfer. Trying to reduce someone's wage because they pay existing staff less, is a good example of that.

Have you got a link to or copy of that agreement?

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(21 Sep 2023, 6:55 pm)Adrian wrote [ -> ]That's interesting, and something I understood to be illegal? The incoming employer usually isn't allowed to make changes to someone's contract as a result of the transfer. Trying to reduce someone's wage because they pay existing staff less, is a good example of that.

Have you got a link to or copy of that agreement?

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Just checked it again, it seems as part of the TUPE they have to sign it with the 6 months contract terms. Seems to be on the questionable side of legality and not formally supported by unions but they don't seem to disapprove of it either.

https://tangytango.proboards.com/thread/...n?page=576 - It's all discussed in here. No surprise who's been mentioned aswell as one of them doing it. I just skim through once in a blue moon to see if anything is heading up here.

Mind talking about this thread, it highlights one real negative of franchising and it being a real race to the bottom since it's all about lowest bids. Pay your drivers more = you won't win the contract at all.

With the talks being Friday I hope they release timetables if any before hand incase nothing comes about the talks as 3-6pm the day before the strike would be awful

(21 Sep 2023, 9:11 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]With the talks being Friday I hope they release timetables if any before hand incase nothing comes about the talks as 3-6pm the day before the strike would be awful

Most large businesses will already have made the decision, as I did, to mandate working from home and authorise taxis for essential needs only. 

Public transport (or at least go north east in honesty) are on our ops resilience plan

(21 Sep 2023, 9:11 pm)Unber43 wrote [ -> ]With the talks being Friday I hope they release timetables if any before hand incase nothing comes about the talks as 3-6pm the day before the strike would be awful

I'd imagine mid to late next week for any info on service levels at a guess based on previous strike action from other companies and proposed strike action from GNE.

For service levels, my assumptions is priority being services around peak times and school times/scholars then whatever can be sourced beyond that.