(12 Jul 2020, 10:46 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I mean, I was just referring to the Citaros, but technically there's nothing stopping them just getting rid of everything!

Tell that to arriva 

(12 Jul 2020, 10:49 pm)JP6004 wrote Tell that to arriva 

There's nowt wrong with Arriva's fleet! They have the highest quality, best kept vehicles in the industry!

(12 Jul 2020, 10:52 pm)streetdeckfan wrote There's nowt wrong with Arriva's fleet! They have the highest quality, best kept vehicles in the industry!

When did that happen and what high quality vehicles?.....I fondly remember the notices GNE placed on the B10s when they took over Hexham, apologising for the state of the vehicles

(12 Jul 2020, 11:00 pm)JP6004 wrote When did that happen and what high quality vehicles?.....I fondly remember the notices GNE placed on the B10s when they took over Hexham, apologising for the state of the vehicles

r/woosh
Seriously though, Arriva should be ashamed of the state of some of their vehicles! I'd argue that some of GNE's worst vehicles (that they've owned from new anyway) are about equivalent to Arriva's best!

(12 Jul 2020, 11:08 pm)streetdeckfan wrote r/woosh
Seriously though, Arriva should be ashamed of the state of some of their vehicles! I'd argue that some of GNE's worst vehicles (that they've owned from new anyway) are about equivalent to Arriva's best!

Yes if your going to market something as premium, make sure it is premium like GNE Xlines. Dont brand it as premium because it's not as shite as the other vehicles 

(12 Jul 2020, 11:00 pm)JP6004 wrote When did that happen and what high quality vehicles?.....I fondly remember the notices GNE placed on the B10s when they took over Hexham, apologising for the state of the vehicles

You can have rose tinted glasses on but Arriva withdrew the crap that came the other way pretty much immediately.

Volvo B10BLE's and Darts one way
Leyland Olympians and Prestiges the other.

You really need to look behind vehicles once in awhile. When your bashing Arriva all the time, you really should compare the network from now and 10 year ago and you'll realise who's butchered their's the most especially in Tyne and Wear and Northumberland. Then at the same look at all the Nexus contracts and who's bus routes they originally were or are. You'll be surprised. Hats out to the marketing department of who wins both those as you do a good job, credit where it's due.

(12 Jul 2020, 11:13 pm)JP6004 wrote Yes if your going to market something as premium, make sure it is premium like GNE Xlines. Dont brand it as premium because it's not as shite as the other vehicles 

I mean, they seem to refurbish them then just forget about them.
What makes me laugh is the 'upgraded' vehicles they put on the X46. Imagine if GNE gave the B7 Geminis a refurb and put them on an X-Lines route

(12 Jul 2020, 11:39 pm)Storx wrote You can have rose tinted glasses on but Arriva withdrew the crap that came the other way pretty much immediately.

Volvo B10BLE's and Darts one way
Leyland Olympians and Prestiges the other.

You really need to look behind vehicles once in awhile. When your bashing Arriva all the time, you really should compare the network from now and 10 year ago and you'll realise who's butchered their's the most especially in Tyne and Wear and Northumberland. Then at the same look at all the Nexus contracts and who's bus routes they originally were or are. You'll be surprised. Hats out to the marketing department of who wins both those as you do a good job, credit where it's due.

Yea arrives offering still bad 10 years later 

---

(12 Jul 2020, 11:43 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I mean, they seem to refurbish them then just forget about them.
What makes me laugh is the 'upgraded' vehicles they put on the X46. Imagine if GNE gave the B7 Geminis a refurb and put them on an X-Lines route

Yea the citaros look a bit tiresome now. However they do seem to have gone for the youngest, high spec vehicles for Xlines. Obviously 6336 & 6337 are older, they still decent for the spares

(12 Jul 2020, 11:08 pm)streetdeckfan wrote r/woosh
Seriously though, Arriva should be ashamed of the state of some of their vehicles! I'd argue that some of GNE's worst vehicles (that they've owned from new anyway) are about equivalent to Arriva's best!

(12 Jul 2020, 11:13 pm)JP6004 wrote Yes if your going to market something as premium, make sure it is premium like GNE Xlines. Dont brand it as premium because it's not as shite as the other vehicles 

Christ some of this is cringe worthy to read. 

Arriva are, by no means, outstanding at fleet presentation, however to say that their best vehicles are equivalent to GNEs worst is laughable. The first bus I got this morning through to town - 17 plate MMC, far better in internal and external condition than any of GNEs native stuff pre circa 2013 (and of a similar standard to the more recent stuff). 

I like how you also leave out GNEs second hand vehicles. I was on 6941 the other week and it was an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, I had ANEs 7484 on my way home the other night - 18 years old, interior is still fresh and it's smartly presented externally as well. 

Then the point about the branding of old vehicles - does your memory not stretch back to the Pronto X21? The X46 B7s have been refurbed with WiFi, Civic V3 e-leather seating and (I believe) USB charging on at least some of them. 

By all means, criticise Arriva for repainting buses every time there's a new ice age, or inconsistent route branding. However the constant rhetoric by some on here that Arriva are essentially sending out some sheds on wheels is rather tiresome (as is the idea that GNE churn out the bus equivalent of a Rolls Royce on every trip).

(13 Jul 2020, 8:17 am)mb134 wrote Christ some of this is cringe worthy to read. 

Arriva are, by no means, outstanding at fleet presentation, however to say that their best vehicles are equivalent to GNEs worst is laughable. The first bus I got this morning through to town - 17 plate MMC, far better in internal and external condition than any of GNEs native stuff pre circa 2013 (and of a similar standard to the more recent stuff). 

I like how you also leave out GNEs second hand vehicles. I was on 6941 the other week and it was an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, I had ANEs 7484 on my way home the other night - 18 years old, interior is still fresh and it's smartly presented externally as well. 

Then the point about the branding of old vehicles - does your memory not stretch back to the Pronto X21? The X46 B7s have been refurbed with WiFi, Civic V3 e-leather seating and (I believe) USB charging on at least some of them. 

By all means, criticise Arriva for repainting buses every time there's a new ice age, or inconsistent route branding. However the constant rhetoric by some on here that Arriva are essentially sending out some sheds on wheels is rather tiresome (as is the idea that GNE churn out the bus equivalent of a Rolls Royce on every trip).

I may of had a few drinks.

My original point was arriva brand something as premium when vehicles are no better than their bog standard. Least with GNE you can tell the difference internally between Xlines and standard. IIRC arriva still had a k reg vehicle kicking about in service not too long ago, long after other operators had disposed of theirs.
Not to worry though, those pesky presidents and vyking soon be gone   

(13 Jul 2020, 8:29 am)JP6004 wrote I may of had a few drinks.

My original point was arriva brand something as premium when vehicles are no better than their bog standard. Least with GNE you can tell the difference internally between Xlines and standard. IIRC arriva still had a k reg vehicle kicking about in service not too long ago, long after other operators had disposed of theirs.
Not to worry though, those pesky presidents and vyking soon be gone   

Just to clarify it was not a K-reg (1992) vehicle (tho there is a K-reg Optare Delta used in an ancillary role at Stockton) there was a singular W-reg (2000) B10BLE in service at Redcar (who have a habit of keeping individual older buses in use long after the rest have departed - see Optare Prisma 3007.) Apparently it was still very capable despite its age, but has now been converted into a Driver Trainer.

(13 Jul 2020, 8:17 am)mb134 wrote Christ some of this is cringe worthy to read. 

Arriva are, by no means, outstanding at fleet presentation, however to say that their best vehicles are equivalent to GNEs worst is laughable. The first bus I got this morning through to town - 17 plate MMC, far better in internal and external condition than any of GNEs native stuff pre circa 2013 (and of a similar standard to the more recent stuff). 

I like how you also leave out GNEs second hand vehicles. I was on 6941 the other week and it was an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, I had ANEs 7484 on my way home the other night - 18 years old, interior is still fresh and it's smartly presented externally as well. 

Then the point about the branding of old vehicles - does your memory not stretch back to the Pronto X21? The X46 B7s have been refurbed with WiFi, Civic V3 e-leather seating and (I believe) USB charging on at least some of them. 

By all means, criticise Arriva for repainting buses every time there's a new ice age, or inconsistent route branding. However the constant rhetoric by some on here that Arriva are essentially sending out some sheds on wheels is rather tiresome (as is the idea that GNE churn out the bus equivalent of a Rolls Royce on every trip).

See, every time I've used Arriva's MMCs I could have sworn there was a drummer sitting upstairs with the amount of rattles and crashed, one of them was so bad I had to get off and change buses.
And my reason for only excluding GNE's second hand vehicles is the majority of the offenders (such as 6941 that you mentioned) shouldn't really be out and about in service and were acquired specifically for event and scholar work. 

As for the X46, all Arriva have done is put lipstick on a pig with those ALX400s, they're still bloody awful to travel on, which I unfortunately have to do from time to time (I really miss when GNE ran some X46 services!).

I'm not saying GNE are perfect, just that they, for the most part at least, keep the interiors of their vehicles much nicer, I can't remember the last time I travelled on a GNE bus that had ripped seats or holes in the back from where they've been melted with a lighter, but they seem to be a regular occurrence on Arriva buses, at least in Durham.

(13 Jul 2020, 9:30 am)peter wrote Just to clarify it was not a K-reg (1992) vehicle (tho there is a K-reg Optare Delta used in an ancillary role at Stockton) there was a singular W-reg (2000) B10BLE in service at Redcar (who have a habit of keeping individual older buses in use long after the rest have departed - see Optare Prisma 3007.) Apparently it was still very capable despite its age, but has now been converted into a Driver Trainer.

When I said it wasnt too long ago, it was a couple years maybe. Cant remember where it was but was deffo on normal service, albeit maybe not a normal allocation

(13 Jul 2020, 9:31 am)streetdeckfan wrote See, every time I've used Arriva's MMCs I could have sworn there was a drummer sitting upstairs with the amount of rattles and crashed, one of them was so bad I had to get off and change buses.
And my reason for only excluding GNE's second hand vehicles is the majority of the offenders (such as 6941 that you mentioned) shouldn't really be out and about in service and were acquired specifically for event and scholar work. 

As for the X46, all Arriva have done is put lipstick on a pig with those ALX400s, they're still bloody awful to travel on, which I unfortunately have to do from time to time (I really miss when GNE ran some X46 services!).

I'm not saying GNE are perfect, just that they, for the most part at least, keep the interiors of their vehicles much nicer, I can't remember the last time I travelled on a GNE bus that had ripped seats or holes in the back from where they've been melted with a lighter, but they seem to be a regular occurrence on Arriva buses, at least in Durham.

Your not making fair comparisons here, the X46 in terms of patronage is similar to comparison to the 25 from GNE which has Omnicitys which haven't been refurbished at all since new and rattle just as bad.

You keeping saying how great GNE are but you should have massive respect for Arriva because they actually bother to serve your area. GNE have pulled out of your area twice now bar one profitable route.

I'll admit for the core routes, GNE is a much better operator but once you go into the secondary network GNE is an absolute shambles and by the far the worst of the big 3. There's people keep saying, why not go into this area and compete against the rubbish Arriva. Do you want the simple answer because one of GNE's depots imo is in a very very weak place right now and it's Percy Main and Stagecoach and Arriva could wipe them out easily.

309 - 308 Quicker, more frequent and Cheaper - Stagecoach taken custom with 22X
310 - 306 Quicker, more frequent and Cheaper - Stagecoach taken custom with 22X
311 - Shortened 57/58
1 - Stagecoach dominate the West End of the North Tyneside side, Arriva trying to take the East side (306).
11 - Used to be every 20 minutes with full size vehicles, now ran by GCT at nights by breadvans.
41 - Stagecoach killed from Wallsend to Cobalt, subsidised and ran GCT with breadvans and half the route has been cut lately.
42 - Stagecoach killed from Wallsend to Cobalt, east side subsidised. Northern part subsidised and ran GCT and Arriva's 52/53 are the primary operator.
19 - Stagecoach taken loads of custom with the 1 / 22 / 22X. Subsidised and ran by GCT partially.
W3 - Ex GNE route.
335 - Partial Ex GNE route
319 - Ex GNE route.

Other than South Shields (Stagecoach), Percy Main is by far the weakest depot in the North East and that's what happens when you play childish games such as extending the Q3 into Stagecoach teritory for them to react and it backfires. I wouldn't be surprised if GNE closes Percy Main outright in the future with the 1 / 309 / 310 / 311 transferred to Riverside and the rest binned off. Deptford has similar problems with some very weak routes. 9 for example used to be every 15 minutes now every 30 minutes. Silksworth services constantly chopped and changed.

You can say lots about Arriva (and Stagecoach) and their fleet presentation but one thing they have is consistancy and they don't just drop their tools at the first oppurtunity and expect Nexus to pick up the pieces behind them. It's no wonder Nexus want to take control as it must be annoying having one of the big 3 cashing in on the profitable routes then you have subsidise what they can't be bothered to run. People would rather have a refurbished ex London bus that an ex. somewhere Solo during the day and a GCT breadvan at night or a GNE Streetlite during the day and GCT at night. They've even done it down your way with the OK1 and the Tinsdale short bus - forgot it's number.

(12 Jul 2020, 11:39 pm)Storx wrote You can have rose tinted glasses on but Arriva withdrew the crap that came the other way pretty much immediately.

Volvo B10BLE's and Darts one way
Leyland Olympians and Prestiges the other.

You really need to look behind vehicles once in awhile. When your bashing Arriva all the time, you really should compare the network from now and 10 year ago and you'll realise who's butchered their's the most especially in Tyne and Wear and Northumberland. Then at the same look at all the Nexus contracts and who's bus routes they originally were or are. You'll be surprised. Hats out to the marketing department of who wins both those as you do a good job, credit where it's due.

Indeed - although MG seems to be more customer focused and we're seeing some improvements (although mainly to key routes) GNE have been all fur coat and no knickers under the last 3 regimes.

(13 Jul 2020, 9:34 am)JP6004 wrote When I said it wasnt too long ago, it was a couple years maybe. Cant remember where it was but was deffo on normal service, albeit maybe not a normal allocation

ANE went fully low floor before both GNE and SNE iirc (yet another thing that is rarely brought up because it doesn't suit agendas). As noted above the only vehicle it's likely to have been is 4015 (K415BHN), but that's not used in public service. Anything else K reg would have been long gone - M reg Olympians went in 2010 for context.

Mods, any chance these posts about who is the best out of the big 3 can be moved to a separate thread please? Thanks.

(13 Jul 2020, 10:17 am)mb134 wrote ANE went fully low floor before both GNE and SNE iirc (yet another thing that is rarely brought up because it doesn't suit agendas). As noted above the only vehicle it's likely to have been is 4015 (K415BHN), but that's not used in public service. Anything else K reg would have been long gone - M reg Olympians went in 2010 for context.

What agenda? My original comment was stating the difference between operators vision of premium service. Xlines being an example of excellent execution (imo) Arrivas having little difference from their normal offering. End of. Yet some people see this as an attack or looking through rose tinted glasses. It's my opinion.

(13 Jul 2020, 8:17 am)mb134 wrote Christ some of this is cringe worthy to read. 

Arriva are, by no means, outstanding at fleet presentation, however to say that their best vehicles are equivalent to GNEs worst is laughable. The first bus I got this morning through to town - 17 plate MMC, far better in internal and external condition than any of GNEs native stuff pre circa 2013 (and of a similar standard to the more recent stuff). 

I like how you also leave out GNEs second hand vehicles. I was on 6941 the other week and it was an absolute embarrassment. On the other hand, I had ANEs 7484 on my way home the other night - 18 years old, interior is still fresh and it's smartly presented externally as well. 

Then the point about the branding of old vehicles - does your memory not stretch back to the Pronto X21? The X46 B7s have been refurbed with WiFi, Civic V3 e-leather seating and (I believe) USB charging on at least some of them. 

By all means, criticise Arriva for repainting buses every time there's a new ice age, or inconsistent route branding. However the constant rhetoric by some on here that Arriva are essentially sending out some sheds on wheels is rather tiresome (as is the idea that GNE churn out the bus equivalent of a Rolls Royce on every trip).

Don't i might actually be sick... that branding was horrendous, who ever thought that up, was on something!


The fact that 6941 should only be used on scholars but its out on normal routes, is annoying though, that shouldn't happen now because all the Presidents/Vykings are being withdrawn due to scholar contract losses.... can we celebrate?


Not one of the big 3 have a proper stable livery, everyone of them has at least 2 versions.... how many times has the GNE/Arriva liveries changed over the last 10 years though?


I'm not going to comment on how i feel about Arriva because it would be unfair because i never use them (think i last used Arriva in the 90's haha) and don't really know the company/routes etc to actually make a statement on them. Its fully Stagecoach around my way (with GNE about a 10-15 minute walk away), and they do a pretty good job on my route although... the occasional dart is being allocated to the route (23 - Dene Estate to Thorney Close), but we went from fully NEW E200's to a mixture of those horrendous MANviro's and ADL versions because Newcastle took some of them for contracted services!

Talking of buses, some the Gas buses are starting to sound horrendous and they're only 7 and 6 years old, which isn't good, because what are they gonna sound like by the time they get to 10 years old?

Stagecoach also have the problem, when it comes to withdrawing them, who will buy them?, there's not many bus companies in the UK which use gas buses. I do hope in the next order Stagecoach Sunderland get new buses but that's unlikely, as Newcastle has the CAZ zone coming up.

ANE went fully low floor before both GNE and SNE iirc (yet another thing that is rarely brought up because it doesn't suit agendas). As noted above the only vehicle it's likely to have been is 4015 (K415BHN), but that's not used in public service. Anything else K reg would have been long gone - M reg Olympians went in 2010 for context.

I would disagree with this.  Stagecoach Hartlepool was first depot to be fully low Floor after the Spring 2010 service changes when the 2 remaining Volvo B10 where withdrawn from service with only enviro 200 and Darts been used.   I know Arriva and Go North East still used step entrance buses for a good few after that.

As for the pros and cons of each of the big 3.   

Well Go North East have the nicest buses but where I am they kept changing the service number, adding services and withdrawn it after a few years and now they don't have a service here at all.    

Arriva buses are mostly ok. They seem to have a stable network at least and rarely about with services.    

Stage coach. Main operator.  Buses are rubbish and frequently breakdown.   Service changes have made services worse in some areas and no investment in the fleet.    So I would say none of them stand out they all need to improve.

(13 Jul 2020, 11:02 am)Michael wrote Don't i might actually be sick... that branding was horrendous, who ever thought that up, was on something!


The fact that 6941 should only be used on scholars but its out on normal routes, is annoying though, that shouldn't happen now because all the Presidents/Vykings are being withdrawn due to scholar contract losses.... can we celebrate?


Not one of the big 3 have a proper stable livery, everyone of them has at least 2 versions.... how many times has the GNE/Arriva liveries changed over the last 10 years though?


I'm not going to comment on how i feel about Arriva because it would be unfair because i never use them (think i last used Arriva in the 90's haha) and don't really know the company/routes etc to actually make a statement on them. Its fully Stagecoach around my way (with GNE about a 10-15 minute walk away), and they do a pretty good job on my route although... the occasional dart is being allocated to the route (23 - Dene Estate to Thorney Close), but we went from fully NEW E200's to a mixture of those horrendous MANviro's and ADL versions because Newcastle took some of them for contracted services!

Talking of buses, some the Gas buses are starting to sound horrendous and they're only 7 and 6 years old, which isn't good, because what are they gonna sound like by the time they get to 10 years old?

Stagecoach also have the problem, when it comes to withdrawing them, who will buy them?, there's not many bus companies in the UK which use gas buses. I do hope in the next order Stagecoach Sunderland get new buses but that's unlikely, as Newcastle has the CAZ zone coming up.

The Gas Buses, a lot of them need new spark plugs, but at £600 each SC is not keen on spending that sort of money and will literally run them as far as they can go. Not sure why these companies are so cheap. They're alright to drive, I would say good but the ADL body is just horrendous, you'd think something that is advertised as full size would have a good weight ratio but the E300 is just poor in my opinion just like every other ADL product I have driven. 

The 39xx MANs are possibly the most dangerous buses I've driven and I'm not sure how they even got around to ordering so many. I wondered why the SN63s had been leaving Sunderland. Again they are a nasty bus to drive, very heavy steering and sharp braking, provided by the Voith system in operation.

(14 Jul 2020, 3:15 pm)col87 wrote I would disagree with this.  Stagecoach Hartlepool was first depot to be fully low Floor after the Spring 2010 service changes when the 2 remaining Volvo B10 where withdrawn from service with only enviro 200 and Darts been used.   I know Arriva and Go North East still used step entrance buses for a good few after that.

I might be wrong here but wasn't Arriva Blyth first, I believe the 59 plates seen off the last of the Citizens and they were the last step floor buses they had. Whether they had a straggler for awhile I'm not sure.