Disclaimer: I'm no expert on Riverside's operations

While it may sound easy saying a driver can bring a new bus out to X, Y or Z. It can actually be a lot more complicated than that. If a driver is already on meal relief on site at say the Metrocentre, they would then have to travel to the depot which either means reducing their meal break (only so much leeway there if any) or they're going to have to totally reschedule the boards.

If a driver is finished and taking a bus back to the depot, they may then have to park a bus at the Metrocentre for the other driver, go and collect another bus or van and drive that back to the depot instead. This adds time and therefore money onto both drivers shifts as they then have to collect the bus from the park and the other has had to divert and faff around.

It may not sound like much, but it adds up and might make the BSOG saving negligible compared to extra time you're having to pay the drivers.

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(15 Nov 2020, 2:25 am)6049 wrote Disclaimer: I'm no expert on Riverside's operations

While it may sound easy saying a driver can bring a new bus out to X, Y or Z. It can actually be a lot more complicated than that. If a driver is already on meal relief on site at say the Metrocentre, they would then have to travel to the depot which either means reducing their meal break (only so much leeway there if any) or they're going to have to totally reschedule the boards.

If a driver is finished and taking a bus back to the depot, they may then have to park a bus at the Metrocentre for the other driver, go and collect another bus or van and drive that back to the depot instead. This adds time and therefore money onto both drivers shifts as they then have to collect the bus from the park and the other has had to divert and faff around.

It may not sound like much, but it adds up and might make the BSOG saving negligible compared to extra time you're having to pay the drivers.

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That's what I was mentioning further above (obscured by font haha) but I do get where yourself and Dan are coming from in terms of a scheduling perspective.

If the bus & driver were both at Riverside depot and no extra time was added, it would make sense. But when drivers are across multiple sites plus the scheduling, then it would not be worth it.

(15 Nov 2020, 8:34 am)L469 YVK wrote That's what I was mentioning further above (obscured by font haha) but I do get where yourself and Dan are coming from in terms of a scheduling perspective.

If the bus & driver were both at Riverside depot and no extra time was added, it would make sense. But when drivers are across multiple sites plus the scheduling, then it would not be worth it.

Didn't notice that bit for the font text sorry!

At other depots it is generally a lot more practical to facilitate a swap on a terminating service. Like has already been mentioned, I don't think anyone would give serious thought to a scheduled swap anywhere else en route, it would be deemed too inconvenient. The only way round it would be for the bus to be ran to the start point light and the driver runs it in service to the normal relief location. However, then you're just adding dead mileage into the equation.

It's a shame, some people might see it as a bit opportunistic to try to squeeze as much money as possible out of the public purse, but as Dan has already mentioned - it could make or break some services commercially. Not to mention that passengers will generally get a better equipped bus as a result.

A good example used to be Washington on the 85 and 86, they used to run around with the old 10 plate Solo's through the day, then on a night they'd be replaced by the newer 66 plates which had NSA and WiFi.

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(15 Nov 2020, 3:05 pm)6049 wrote Didn't notice that bit for the font text sorry!

At other depots it is generally a lot more practical to facilitate a swap on a terminating service. Like has already been mentioned, I don't think anyone would give serious thought to a scheduled swap anywhere else en route, it would be deemed too inconvenient. The only way round it would be for the bus to be ran to the start point light and the driver runs it in service to the normal relief location. However, then you're just adding dead mileage into the equation.

It's a shame, some people might see it as a bit opportunistic to try to squeeze as much money as possible out of the public purse, but as Dan has already mentioned - it could make or break some services commercially. Not to mention that passengers will generally get a better equipped bus as a result.

A good example used to be Washington on the 85 and 86, they used to run around with the old 10 plate Solo's through the day, then on a night they'd be replaced by the newer 66 plates which had NSA and WiFi.

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Having to change to a different vehicle on the X21 used to be a common occurrence, we'd often have to switch from a StreetDeck to an OmniDekka at Chester le Street. No real explanation was ever given, usually just that the bus was needed elsewhere.

(15 Nov 2020, 3:17 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Having to change to a different vehicle on the X21 used to be a common occurrence, we'd often have to switch from a StreetDeck to an OmniDekka at Chester le Street. No real explanation was ever given, usually just that the bus was needed elsewhere.

A common occurance yes, but not a scheduled one. The X21 used to be based out of the outstation so it wouldn't surprise me if it was for routine maintenance being done.

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(14 Nov 2020, 10:43 pm)Ambassador wrote This whole conversation just shows flawed the whole BSOG system is and it will no doubt go at some point in the near future replaced by an equally inexplicable system that props up and generates even more cash for our billion pound making transport groups.....and those down on their luck small local businesses like Go Ahead, Arriva and Stagecoach. Indeed.

But, but... it ensures we see regular commercial services on an evening and means the likes of Phoenix, A-Line, GCT, Classic, Stanley, JH or whoever else, didnt and dont need to step in and offer services under some sort of taxpayer subsidy both now and for the last 34 years.
Sticking a bus on which gets an extra 6p per km on top of the existing 38p p/l grant and the avl/smart card uplift obviously makes all the difference :shrug:

As you say, it's flawed. Flawed on so many levels.