(22 May 2015, 10:25 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote The Pronto PVR in total is actually 7 because the X21 interworks with the X46. Therefore, the following could happen:

- 15 + 2 spare new deckers to Washington for Red Arrows.
- 6001 to 6007 to Crook alongside 3943 as a spare for Pronto Service X21.
- 6049 to Riverside for TTX spare primarily due to Tachograph.
- 6050 to Hexham and 6051 to Riverside as TEN spares.
- 6052 to Percy Main as Cobalt Clipper spare alongside 6117.
- 6053 to CLS as Angel spare alongside 3962.
- 6054 and 6055 to CLS and fitted with GKN mods for Angel to make up for PVR shortfall.
- 6084 remaining at Riverside but forming a permanent vehicle on the TEN and repainted / rebranded into TEN livery making up the PVR of 14 vehicles.

This then leaves:
- 3941, 3942, 3963, 3964, 3965

- 3941 would remain at Riverside as a Red Kite spare and last resort TEN spare. In total, Riverside would have 3 spare vehicles for a PVR of 12 B9TL routes (excluding X9 / X10 due to Tacho requirements) but 6049 would be summonsed if needed for the TTX.
- 3942 and 3963 transfer to Percy Main displacing 2x Northern Dennis Trident ELC Lolynes or Volvo B7TL Plaxton Presidents. These could be used on the scholars / Cobalt Clipper boards to keep an acceptable standard of vehicles during peak times (preferably the 16:40 and 17:40 309's from Haymarket). The 16:05 X39 from Cobalt to Newcastle and 16:10 309 from Newcastle to Blyth could be operated by some other suitable double deck vehicles or DDA compliant vehicles when the time comes due to fewer commuters at these times.
- 3964 and 3965 transfer to Percy Main displacing 2x non compliant DFDS Dennis Trident ELC Lolynes and work alongside 3890 and 3891.

The Pronto PVR is 6 not 7! The X46 is a position journey at the start or end of one or more of the 6 boards to get the vehicle from Durham to Crook or vice versa.

PVR is peak vehicle requirement (ie the maximum number of vehicles used on a route during the day) not how many buses are branded for a route.

(22 May 2015, 10:30 pm)Kuyoyo wrote The Pronto PVR is 6 not 7! The X46 is a position journey at the start or end of one or more of the 6 boards to get the vehicle from Durham to Crook or vice versa.

PVR is peak vehicle requirement (ie the maximum number of vehicles used on a route during the day) not how many buses are branded for a route.

Well cheers for that, well that could then mean another B9 for Riverside or Percy Main then.

(22 May 2015, 10:35 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Well cheers for that, well that could then mean another B9 for Riverside or Percy Main then.

What about Deptford? 6055 Could transfer there and act as a spare along with 6099 & 6100

(22 May 2015, 10:54 pm)Davie wrote What about Deptford? 6055 Could transfer there and act as a spare along with 6099 & 6100

Got it good though, Riverside / Hexham, Chester and Percy are in more need. If another B9 went to Riverside, 3941 could go to Percy Main meaning that all Cobalt Clipper 309s would operate using an acceptable vehicle including all peak time workings fed from scholars buses.

(22 May 2015, 10:30 pm)Kuyoyo wrote The Pronto PVR is 6 not 7! The X46 is a position journey at the start or end of one or more of the 6 boards to get the vehicle from Durham to Crook or vice versa.

PVR is peak vehicle requirement (ie the maximum number of vehicles used on a route during the day) not how many buses are branded for a route.

As you recently played this card in the Arriva North East section of the forum, let me play it now here. Are you suggesting the company documentation is wrong - that Crook's double deck PVR is 6 opposed to 7? My copies were last updated in March, so I can't imagine anything has changed since then...

To be blunt: let's stop this mindless speculation on what the PVR at Crook is and just accept that it is 7 vehicles. The PEAK vehicle requirement is the amount of vehicles that depot requires to operate the service at PEAK times, which tends to be the maximum number of vehicles during the entire day.

Contrary to the speculation prior to this post, the seventh board is not the board which forms the peak-time positioning X46 journeys. They do interwork with the X21s, so do not add to the PVR.

nk55's post did throw me somewhat, but to my knowledge the seventh Crook-operated board is made up by the following journeys:
- 0805 #X21 (Durham - Bishop Auckland College)
- 1630 #X21 (Bishop Auckland College - Bus Station)
- 1638 #X21 (Bishop Auckland - Newcastle)
- 1810 #X21 (Newcastle - Bishop Auckland)
Leaves Crook Depot on a morning at 07:35 and gets back for 19:42 on a night, spending the majority of the day from 09:05 to 16:15 within the depot too (or bus station, if Crook needs a spare to linger around).
The 17:00 #X21 (Bishop Auckland College - Durham) is the journey which is part of the normal daytime X21 PVR.

Crook would be stuffed if they only had six buses to operate the X21 when, at peak times, they require seven buses, wouldn't they? If/when the X21 is upgraded, I am inclined to suggest that Crook will retain seven branded vehicles plus one corporate liveried spare, as per most other services.

The PVR for the X21 is now 7.

The seventh board does the X21 from Durham to Bishop college, then a taxi to Crook at 11:29. Then does the 16:34 X21 to Newcastle and back to Bishop

So 7 buses for the X21 , 2 for the 18s and one spare (supposed to be 6038) to cover 18s and X21s

I wrote that... don't know how it went under your name Dan!!!

(23 May 2015, 6:40 am)pdiddy wrote The PVR for the X21 is now 7.

The seventh board does the X21 from Durham to Bishop college, then a taxi to Crook at 11:29. Then does the 16:34 X21 to Newcastle and back to Bishop

So 7 buses for the X21 , 2 for the 18s and one spare (supposed to be 6038) to cover 18s and X21s

I wrote that... don't know how it went under your name Dan!!!

Sorted.  

I'd checked it against multiple sources before stating that the PVR was 7 - knew they couldn't all be wrong... Works out at an 11.1% spare vehicle percentage for the entire depot, which is slightly lower than company average (approximately 15%).

What they could even do to replace the Pronto at Crook is this if the TEN series could be timetabled so that all Hexham journeys are Hexham operated and all journeys to Low Prudhoe and Rockwood Hill are Riverside operated:

- 8 + 1 spare new E400MMCs to Riverside for services 10A / 10B.
- 6071 to 6076 to Hexham for service 10 alongside 3942 as a spare.
- 6077 to 6083 to Crook alongside 3941 from Riverside for Pronto services.
- 6084 to Riverside as a permanent TTX spare vehicle.

This is what the numbers from Riverside, Hexham and Crook would look like then:

Riverside
- 8x TEN branded E400MMCs for services 10A / 10B.
- 4x Red Kite branded B9TLs for service 47.
- 6x TTX branded B9TLs for services X9 / X10.
- 1x corporate liveried E400MMC as a spare for services 10 / 10B.
- 1x corporate liveried B9TL as a spare for services X9 / X10.
- 2x corporate liveried B7TLs as last resort spares for TEN / TTX and primarily service 47.

Hexham
- 6x TEN branded B9TLs for service 10.
- 1x corporate liveried B7TL as a spare for service 10.

Crook
- 7x Pronto branded B9TLs for services X21 / X46.
- 1x corporate liveried B7TL as a spare for services X21 / X46.

The spare E400MMC could be fitted with a Tachograph so that 6084 and or the spare E400MMC could be used on the X9 / X10 if needed. Also, this would allow GNE to test the E400MMC in tougher conditions and on arguably, it's toughest routes and if proved successful, GNE could then consider this as a future vehicle option for orders. Also, allocating E400MMCs to services 10A and 10B despite the routes not being too demanding, would allow GNE to test the capability of this vehicle type on various roads such as Stonyflat Bank, and the fast paced A695 and joining the A184 from the Teams and picking up speed on the incline towards the Askew Road Junction / Redheugh Bridge.

Just a thought if Go North East were to trade in the Withdrawn Wright Cadets for a Batch of Streetlites, what would the Percentage of Discount be if the Vehicles were to Standard Specification.

(24 May 2015, 9:08 pm)Malarkey wrote Just a thought if Go North East were to trade in the Withdrawn Wright Cadets for a Batch of Streetlites, what would the Percentage of Discount be if the Vehicles were to Standard Specification.

Not sure if Wrights have a part exchange facility like Optare?

Can't imagine the Cadets will have a very high book value now. Still probably wouldn't be worth doing.

A vehicle 11/13 years old will have little value whether being sold to a dealer or traded in - SPD Darts were making only a few thousand last year. I haven't seen any Cadets advertised recently, but I'd guess they may be worth £10000 for an independent operator to buy one, if in good nick, though companies like Ensign seem to charge considerably more than smaller dealers. Being DDA will carry some premium as smaller operators with non DDA vehicles on service work may be getting desperate now with the January 2016 deadline for single deckers approaching.

Can't remember where I saw it but somebody mentioned about the possibility of Streetlite MAXs on the 58 in the future? I think that the next step for the 58 would be deckers and the Versas would then go on the 27. Also if Citylink got deckers, the 58x could be withdrawn (passengers could change onto the 309 / X39 at the Civic Centre) and in the afternoons to reduce the likelyhood of GNE having to allocate Lolynes and B7s onto main 309 / 310 services, the 1605 X39 could continue to be Lolyne / B7 operated and the 1635 and 1705 X39 runs could be provided by Citylink deckers with the 310 continuing to be docked between Norham Road and Newcastle to provide extra 309s between Cobalt and Newcastle. Also, providing stand occupancy wouldn't be an issue at Haymarket, the Citylink deckers could also do the morning X39 runs to Cobalt allowing either the 310 to run more frequently or provide extra 309s between Newcastle and Cobalt.

I know it's a bit long winded but:
- It would increase capacity on the 58 to prevent overcrowding.
- All Cobalt to Newcastle services would have better punctuality.
- Extra buses to and from Cobalt on service 309.
- Reduced likelyhood of a significantly lower standard vehicle being allocated to a main 309 / 310 service like what the 1610, 1640 and 1742 services are currently allocated from Haymarket.
- PVR reduced by 3 buses saving on fuel, wages, dead mileage and other costs.
- Despite the direct link between Gateshead and Cobalt being dropped, customer satisfaction would improve particularly on the profitable yet competitive Coast Road corridor.

I reckon that an order will be placed in the coming months for the 2015/2016 orders so the new vehicles can be placed into service before the DDA regulations come into place.
I think the Streetlites would work on the 57 as Malarkey suggested. Mainly because the route isn't that long so won't be putting any heavy work onto a light weight vehicle. I think we can also all agree that it is about time that the Pronto gained new buses whether that be direct replacements or replacements through cascades from the X1 or whatever it may be.

(25 May 2015, 9:27 am)DaveyBowyer wrote Can't remember where I saw it but somebody mentioned about the possibility of Streetlite MAXs on the 58 in the future? I think that the next step for the 58 would be deckers and the Versas would then go on the 27. Also  if Citylink got deckers, the 58x could be withdrawn (passengers could change onto the 309 / X39 at the Civic Centre) and in the afternoons to reduce the likelyhood of GNE having to allocate Lolynes and B7s onto main 309 / 310 services,  the 1605 X39 could continue to be Lolyne / B7 operated and the 1635 and 1705 X39 runs could be provided by Citylink deckers with the 310 continuing to be docked between Norham Road and Newcastle to provide extra 309s between Cobalt and Newcastle. Also, providing stand occupancy wouldn't be an issue at Haymarket, the Citylink deckers could also do the morning X39 runs to Cobalt allowing either the 310 to run more frequently or provide extra 309s between Newcastle and Cobalt.

I know it's a bit long winded but:
- It would increase capacity on the 58 to prevent overcrowding.
- All Cobalt to Newcastle services would have better punctuality.
- Extra buses to and from Cobalt on service 309.
- Reduced likelyhood of a significantly lower standard vehicle being allocated to a main 309 / 310 service like what the 1610, 1640 and 1742 services are currently allocated from Haymarket.
- PVR reduced by 3 buses saving on fuel, wages, dead mileage and other costs.
- Despite the direct link between Gateshead and Cobalt being dropped, customer satisfaction would improve particularly on the profitable yet competitive Coast Road corridor.

Would have to be cascades, as i think they're only doing the Hybrid version now

I haven't done mine yet so here they are:

We don't know how many for this order but i'll for around 50, same as this years, i think we'll get more Omnidekkas to.
------------------
Crusader - 15 deckers (not sure which decker's they'll go for)
Highwayman - 12 Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrids
North Tyne Links - 9 Optare Solo SR
Fab 57 - 5 Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrid
Loop - 9 - Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrid

Total 50 new buses
--------------
Omnidekka's - To replace the Lolynes
---------------
Sorry Malarkey most of mine are the same as yours!

(25 May 2015, 12:28 pm)Michael wrote I haven't done mine yet so here they are:

We don't know how many for this order but i'll for around 50, same as this years, i think we'll get more Omnidekkas to.
------------------
Crusader - 15 deckers (not sure which decker's they'll go for)
Highwayman - 12 Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrids
North Tyne Links - 9 Optare Solo SR
Fab 57 - 5 Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrid
Loop - 9 - Wright Streetlite 11.5m Micro Hybrid

Total 50 new buses
--------------
Omnidekka's - To replace the Lolynes
---------------
Sorry Malarkey most of mine are the same as yours!

Bet you didnt even type out half of that post, bloody copy and pasted from mine no doubt  .

Im going to stick with 80 New Vehicles due to the amount of Vehicles which need to be Withdrawn over the next 18 Months.

44 - MPDs
18 - Cadets/Merits
59 - Renowns
25 - ELC Lolynes
11 - Palatine 2s
Total = 157 Vehicles
**Note Vehicles that have already been Withdrawn have been deducted from the above Total**

(25 May 2015, 1:19 pm)Malarkey wrote Bet you didnt even type out half of that post, bloody copy and pasted from mine no doubt  .

Im going to stick with 80 New Vehicles due to the amount of Vehicles which need to be Withdrawn over the next 18 Months.

44 - MPDs
18 - Cadets/Merits
59 - Renowns
25 - ELC Lolynes
11 - Palatine 2s
Total = 157 Vehicles
**Note Vehicles that have already been Withdrawn have been deducted from the above Total**

I did

To get my money's worth:

- ''Citylink'' service 58 receive Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrids - 12 branded and 2 spare - allowing ''Citylink'' Versas 5377-5388, along with 5389 and 5390, transfer to Stanley and branded for the ''Diamond'' services, as the 14 Versas would make up the current PVR of 14 on those services. The 14 Mercedes Citaros are divided up into the following: 5x (5293-5297) to Chester-le-Street for use on ''Waggonway'' services 28/28A, allowing 4956-4960 to be repainted into the fleet livery and put into a less-demanding role; 9x (5284-5292) remain at Riverside, but instead branded for ''Loop'' services 93/94, allowing ''Loop'' branded Scania L94UB/Wright Solars 5219-5226, possibly to serve as direct replacements for the soon-to-be withdrawn Volvo B10BLE/Wright Renowns remaining at Riverside depot, in the corporate fleet livery.

- ''Fab57'' service 57 receive Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrids - 5 branded - possibly one of the first services to receive investment, to allow the 5 branded Volvo B10BLE/Wright Renown to be withdrawn ahead of their death sentence of January 1 2016. Direct replacements, with no cascading.

- ''The Highwayman'' services 97/98/98A receive Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrids - 11 branded and 1 spare - allowing ''The Highwayman'' branded Scania L94UB/Wright Solars 4932/33/28/40/41/47/48/67 and 5218/27/28 to be repainted into the corporate fleet livery, and consequently transferred to whichever depots require these. Possibly serve as direct replacements for withdrawn Volvo B10BLE/Wright Renowns, so yet another service which could receive investment early.

- ''Blaydon Racers'' services 49/49B/49C receive Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrids - 10 branded and 1 spare - allowing Mercedes 0530N/Mercedes Citaros 5275-5283, along with 5331, to be put into the fleet livery, as after 5337 and 5338, they are the oldest Citaros in the fleet (unless I've missed something!). Unsure of where they could go, possibly spaced out to each depot to alleviate shortages, etc. Either 5331 or 5332 transfers to Hexham to displace 5229 (serving as the red spare) to another depot, to fit in with the next cascade.

- ''Wear Tees Express'' service X7 receives Wright Streetlite DF/Wright Streetlite Micro-Hybrids - 4 branded - allowing the 4 Mercedes 0530N/Mercedes Citaros 5333-5336 to be transferred to Hexham for ''Tynedale Express'' services X84/X85, fitted with all of the provisions the present Solars (5230-5233) have to maintain the standard of customer experience. Citaros are generally, although my opinion is not the same, viewed as luxurious vehicles, so one could assume they would be seen as an upgrade from 5230-5233.

As for double deck vehicle routes, such as the ''Pronto'', I'm not sure what could be a suitable replacement. The Volvo B9TL/Wright Gemini 2s currently on their present routes aren't really in need of cascading to another service or route, but the main double deck services that, in my opinion, are worthy of an upgrade (the first more than the second!) are the ''Pronto'' service X21 and ''Crusader'' service 27. The ''Pronto'' would require 8 of the vehicles (7 branded and 1 spare) and the ''Crusader'' would need 15 examples (13 branded and 2 spare).

Well, that's all I've got. I rarely put anything in a predictions thread, so hopefully some of this makes sense, haha.

Marcus

Anyone would think you were keen on buying Streetlites...haha

(25 May 2015, 8:23 pm)citaro5284 wrote Anyone would think you were keen on buying Streetlites...haha

Would not fancy one up and down the A19 all day long... Couple runs a day on a small stretch of the A19 is bad enough on the 8A!

(25 May 2015, 8:23 pm)citaro5284 wrote Anyone would think you were keen on buying Streetlites...haha

Should move to enviro's....

(25 May 2015, 8:23 pm)citaro5284 wrote Anyone would think you were keen on buying Streetlites...haha

Micro Hybrid version is good but ideally, need something heavy duty for the WTX.

(25 May 2015, 9:45 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote Micro Hybrid version is good but ideally, need something heavy duty for the WTX.

Inclined to agree.

The only suitable replacement for the current Mercedes Citaro stock would be Volvo B8RLEs, in my opinion. Although the service is a good performer, I cannot see it receiving new stock though.

The Mercs on there are only five years old and I think they're very well suited to the route. Only a handful of occurrences whereby anything besides a Merc has been allocated.

Wi-Fi is the only upgrade the X7 needs, in my opinion. With every single competing bus operated by Arriva featuring the provision of free Wi-Fi, it's surely only a matter of time before Go North East adds it?

If the X7 ever was to receive an upgrade, if the engineering was up to standard at Deptford (home depot) and Peterlee, then Streetlite Micro Hybrids could be an option. I know that the lightweight chassis isn't as comfortable as a full on heavyweight chassis but, in terms of reliability, it would depend on how GNE looked after them and if they did, then there'd be none or very few issues.

Mind you though, I'd still say heavyweight deckers (Scania) when it comes to replacing 6043 - 6048 in a few years time due to the sheer amount of passengers being carried and the tougher operating and driving conditions that are encountered.

(27 May 2015, 4:21 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote If the X7 ever was to receive an upgrade, if the engineering was up to standard at Deptford (home depot) and Peterlee, then Streetlite Micro Hybrids could be an option. I know that the lightweight chassis isn't as comfortable as a full on heavyweight chassis but, in terms of reliability, it would depend on how GNE looked after them and if they did, then there'd be none or very few issues.

Mind you though, I'd still say heavyweight deckers (Scania) when it comes to replacing 6043 - 6048 in a few years time due to the sheer amount of passengers being carried and the tougher operating and driving conditions that are encountered.

I'm not sure what would replace the Citaro's on the X7, The Irizar i3 seems a decent bus or the B8RLE


Mirco-hybrids might need replacing after about 5 or so years though, they might replace them with the Euro 6 model of the Citaro in the next few years. 

Would you think that buses on the X9/X10 would last longer if they only went at 30mph on the A19? ?

---

(27 May 2015, 4:30 pm)Michael wrote I'm not sure what would replace the Citaro's on the X7, The Irizar i3 seems a decent bus... whats that other model with the 8 in its name... my mind has gone blank! 


Mirco-hybrids might need replacing after about 5 or so years though, they might replace them with the Euro 6 model of the Citaro in the next few years. 

B8RLE i think youre thinking of.

(27 May 2015, 4:31 pm)Robert wrote Would you think that buses on the X9/X10 would last longer if they only went at 30mph on the A19? ?

---

B8RLE i think youre thinking of.

Just edited my post, i seen that Dan already mentioned it, should of read posts before  

(27 May 2015, 4:31 pm)Robert wrote Would you think that buses on the X9/X10 would last longer if they only went at 30mph on the A19? ?

Probably, but would cause traffic on the A19 which will result in dangerous overtakes and other dodgy moves and would also add a considerable amount of running time onto the service because it would take longer to get there because of the slow speeds.

(27 May 2015, 4:38 pm)Jimmi wrote Probably, but would cause traffic on the A19 which will result in dangerous overtakes and other dodgy moves and would also add a considerable amount of running time onto the service because it would take longer to get there because of the slow speeds.

Haha. If it would keep the buses in tip top condition, surely it must be tried?  

(27 May 2015, 4:31 pm)Robert wrote Would you think that buses on the X9/X10 would last longer if they only went at 30mph on the A19?

Wouldn't be much of an express service, then, would it?