(04 Sep 2015, 6:19 pm)Dan wrote The 'K' is the mini version (ie the one which was looked at by Riverside engineering last year). The 'N' is the full-size version (ie the one which was on X66 and 8/78). Both are Euro 6, and both quite pricey. The 'K' will be a little less, given that it's a smaller bus.

Worth mentioning Volvo B8RLE 9108 or the Scania K Series Irizar , Which are both totally suited to the X84/X85

Scania K Series Irizar/E300 ( 9 Litre Engine - ZF Ecolife1 6 speed Gearbox )
Volvo B8RLE Wright/MCV ( Volvo D8K 7.7 Litre Engine - ZF Ecolife1 6 speed or Voith DIWA.6 4 Speed )

The ZF is far more suited to faster paced routes like the X84/X85 with different horsepower options in both the Volvo and the Scania .

"Performance of a Citaro but not the price tag"

(04 Sep 2015, 9:13 pm)aureolin wrote Suppose it depends really though. It's all good and well removing a limiter, and it's not exactly difficult, but does it go against manufacturer recommendations? Is the bus as efficient at that speed as it is at the capped speed? It may have worse fuel consumption that a comparable vehicle for example.

On certain routes though, it completely takes certain vehicles out of the equation when ordering, as Dan has said earlier. The vehicle obviously won't be as efficient at the higher speed (don't quote me on this figure, but while studying for my theory, I seem to remember reading that a vehicle is up to 30% less fuel efficient at 70 than it is at 50...), but then if services are constantly late because the thing can't exceed 50mph, then customers will get annoyed, even more so when more time has to be added into the timetable because the vehicles can't cope...

(04 Sep 2015, 9:09 pm)mb134 wrote With regards to speed limiting on buses, I recall being on ANE's 7524 last year, and noticing a sticker in the cab informing the driver it was limited to 100Km/h (62mph), which is fair enough, it seems stupid to me that the Streetlites are limited to 50mph. Is there a way of changing the limiter on these, I know that it has been said on here that the limit on the B8RLE can be changed, if it can't on the Streetlite then that is surely a major oversight?

I think the Streetlite is really designed as a city bus. It copes well with routes like Arriva Co Durham 22 and GNE Coast and country which have short fast sections but would be a dead loss on anything with long high speed stretches - the same reasoning for not liking the Streetdeck on the X21, in fact.

The whole selling of something that's a bit limited as efficient gets my goat, really. It's not just buses. I bought my iron (of all tedious everyday things) for being lightweight so it doesn't hurt my arthritic hands, but it's sold as being an eco iron. It uses less energy if you use it on the cotton setting instead of the linen one, which makes it all efficient and eco friendly, like

Specifying a vehicle for a particular route and application can be done by gearing a suitable engine.

Those intended for 'fast' interurban routes require adequate power and gearing to keep the engine speed below an inefficient value, whereas a 'city bus' can operate adequately at lower maximum roadspeeds.
Whether the Streetlites can be adjusted to cope with interurban use depends on whether the gearing will allow increased road-speed without compromising fuel economy.

I have remarked before that there are many options available when specifying vehicles other than the engine size, and, with suitable gearing a large capacity engine might well operate more efficiently than an overstressed lower-powered engine.

I quoted the example of Jaguar's back-to-back economy tests of 2.4 litre and 3.4 litre cars where the 3.4 litre one was more economical - partly due to the gearing and partly due to the smaller-engined car having to 'strain' to keep up with the larger one.

The same applies to buses, a 9 litre engine might be more fuel-efficient than a 5 litre one according to gearing and route characteristics.
Most manufacturers offer a choice of gearing (number of ratios and final-drive ratio) - as well as some transmission types having different 'economies', and a suitable initial choice of specification is essential if fuel economy (and performance) is paramount.

Whether simply increasing the governed speed from 50 mph to 58 mph is possible (and desirable) depends on the vehicle specification. It might be a simple task of adjusting the software that limits the maximum speed, or it might mean running the engine at an inefficient speed that negates the purpose of choosing that vehicle type.

(04 Sep 2015, 6:29 pm)Dan wrote Worth mentioning that I believe the Scania L94s on the Tynedalexpress are limited to 58 or 59mph, whereas Streetlites are limited to 50mph. The allocation of Streetlites to service X85 would make the timetable completely unachievable, and therefore, I can't see this vehicle type as a likely choice for investment.

Remember also that the X85 is in direct competition with the train so extending the timetable would be a no-no.

Just with reference to buss14's post on the main page for GNE,  I think that although I love the B9TL, they're a wasted bus on the Cobalt Clipper as none of the routes need such power and it is a lot of fuel to use for not too demanding work. At the end of the day, if Volvo B5LH can cope on the 308 albeit a tight timetable courtesy of Arriva, then I think the Streetdeck could cope alright with the 309 / 310 / X39 with no issues.

I personally think that if the Streetdeck was to use less fuel than a GKN modded B9TL, bearing in mind that only one of the Cobalt B9s (I think) have already been done, then I've got a sneaky feeling that GNE could order Streetdecks for the Cobalt Clipper and put the B9's to good use elsewhere like this depending upon what changes happen to the West Durham Express services. The Fab 56 could also go back upto every 10 minutes too:

6085 to 6098 = 14x GKN B9TL / Deptford / Fab 56
6099 to 6100 = 2x B9TL / Deptford / Spare
6101(T) = B9TL / Riverside (or Hexham) / Spare
6102 = B9TL / Riverside (or Hexham) / TEN
6103 to 6104 = 2x GKN B9TL / Deptford / Fab 56
6105 to 6111 = 7x B9TL / Crook / Pronto
6112 to 6117 = 6x B9TL / Stanley / West Durham
________________________________________________

Further Cascades and allocations:

6084(T) = B9TL / Riverside (or Hexham) / Spare
3941 (T) = B7TL / Riverside (or Hexham) / Spare
3942 (T) = B7TL / Crook / Spare
3963 (T) = B7TL / Stanley / Spare
3964 (T) = B7TL / CLS / Angel Spare

3962 and 3965 already part of the Angel PVR.

(12 Sep 2015, 11:16 am)DaveyBowyer wrote The Fab 56 could also go back upto every 10 minutes too:

Why? It was slightly decreased to resolve reliability issues, which it's done. I don't see why they'd go back to every 10 minutes, and end up having to face the same issues again?

13 minutes ago
Order prediction:

- 15+2 spare Deckers for Red Arrows service X1.

Cascades:

- 6001 to 6007 = Crook Pronto service X21.

- 6049 (T) = Riverside as a spare.

- 6050 = Riverside as a spare.

- 6051 to 6055 = Stanley Northern service 6

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3942 = Stanley Spare

- 3943 = Wherever needed

Or............

- 16 or 17+2 spare Streetdecks for Cobalt Clipper.

Cascades:

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3962 and 3965 = Percy Main DFDS

- 6084 = Riverside Spare

- 6101 (T) = Riverside / Hexham TEN (just needs new vinyls)

- 6102 to 6108 (6104 [GKN Modded] swapped with 1x from Deptford) = Crook Pronto service X21

- 6109 to 6112 = Riverside Red Kite service 47 to maintain commonality with the 45 / 46 specification

- 6113 to 6117 = Stanley Northern service 6 (only 3x need repainted as 6116 / 6117 already red)

- 6118 to 6119 = CLS Angel service 21

- 6120 to 6121 = CLS spare

No... can't see that happening

(02 Oct 2015, 6:48 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote 13 minutes ago
Order prediction:

- 15+2 spare Deckers for Red Arrows service X1.

Cascades:

- 6001 to 6007 = Crook Pronto service X21.

- 6049 (T) = Riverside as a spare.

- 6050 = Riverside as a spare.

- 6051 to 6055 = Stanley Northern service 6

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3942 = Stanley Spare

- 3943 = Wherever needed

Or............

- 16 or 17+2 spare Streetdecks for Cobalt Clipper.

Cascades:

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3962 to 3965 = Percy Main DFDS

- 6084 = Riverside Spare

- 6101 (T) = Riverside / Hexham TEN (just needs new vinyls)

- 6102 to 6108 (6104 [GKN Modded] swapped with 1x from Deptford) = Crook Pronto service X21

- 6109 to 6112 = Riverside Red Kite service 47 to maintain commonality with the 45 / 46 specification

- 6113 to 6117 = Stanley Northern service 6 (only 3x need repainted as 6116 / 6117 already red)

- 6118 to 6119 = CLS Angel service 21

- 6120 to 6121 = CLS spare

Why would the Cobalt Clipper B9s be replaced when they have only been in service for about 18 months (Just a guess) and why would the Red Kite examples be replaced when they have been on for a few months?

---

(02 Oct 2015, 7:49 pm)Davie wrote Why would the Cobalt Clipper B9s be replaced when they have only been in service for about 18 months (Just a guess) and why would the Red  Kite examples be replaced when they have been on for a few months?

- Whilst there is nothing wrong as such with the B9s on the Cobalt Clipper, unless GNE cough up for an E400 either bodied and powered by ADL or bodied by ADL with a Scania Chassis / Engine coupled, then GNE have no alternative to the Streetdeck or the B5TL which for reasons previously stated, would not be suitable for the X21 in the long term. Also, GNE are very loyal to Wrightbus and therefore, would be unlikely to buy from ADL.

- Although the Cobalt Clipper routes are fairly profitable, the 309 / 310 are hardly demanding, just very intense and therefore, fuel costs could be reduced by using Streetdecks whilst not losing too much performance whereas if fuel costs on the Pronto were reduced in this way, then performance and reliability could be affected in the long term. Also, the fuel savings would be more apparent on the 309 / 310 due to the stop / start nature of these routes.

- The Volvo B9 is a very proven vehicle and despite having a few issues here and there on a very demanding route (TTX), they generally perform well and therefore, it would make sense to put these on a route like the X21 rather than risking the use of Streetdecks. Furthermore, unless GNE were to use ZF gearboxes which haven't bee used widespread yet on the Streetdeck, then the Voith gearbox would not be at it's best use for this route.

- The addition of power sockets on this route would GNE at an advantage over Arriva's X12 which has been just recently upgraded to MAX spec and despite the X21 being the more stronger and profitable of these two routes, it would prevent Arriva from taking any passengers from GNE in the long term.

- The use of B9s on the Pronto would tie the route over for the next 5 or so years ensuring that the service remains reliable, as punctual as possible and always one step ahead of the competition. To help this, 3941 would also be available as a spare vehicle due to 1x extra B9 being available at Riverside as well as 6101.

- The TEN would be able to operate with a full PVR of 14x B9s with the TTX having 6084 as a spare too and 1x ex Deptford B9 as well as 3x B7 Geminis acting as spares for the TEN, Red Kite 47 between Hexham / Riverside.

- The addition of upgraded vehicles on service 6 would create further growth on this route and encourage more people to use this service.

- The addition of upgraded vehicles on service 47 would bring the service in line with the other 2x Red Kite services minus the leather seating.

- The use of 2x 15 plate B9s on the Angel would not only allow the DFDS work to become DDA compliant thanks to , these would also bring the Angel up to a modern standard which was compromised when the frequency of this service was increased back in 2012 after ordering the Hybrids. Furthermore, GNE could even retrofit the GKN mods on these vehicles which are available. The specification of these vehicles are ideal for the 21 too due to the more hop on hop nature eliminating the need for high back seating. Free Wi-Fi would be available and Chester Le Street would also benefit from 2x corporate spare 15 reg B9s due to the sometimes frequent regulation of this service particularly at peak times.

Re-post...

Why should Deptford loose a B9 for Hexham and Riverside though?

(02 Oct 2015, 6:48 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote 13 minutes ago
Order prediction:

- 15+2 spare Deckers for Red Arrows service X1.

Cascades:

- 6001 to 6007 = Crook Pronto service X21.

- 6049 (T) = Riverside as a spare.

- 6050 = Riverside as a spare.

- 6051 to 6055 = Stanley Northern service 6

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3942 = Stanley Spare

- 3943 = Wherever needed

Or............

- 16 or 17+2 spare Streetdecks for Cobalt Clipper.

Cascades:

- 3941 = Crook spare

- 3962 and 3965 = Percy Main DFDS

- 6084 = Riverside Spare

- 6101 (T) = Riverside / Hexham TEN (just needs new vinyls)

- 6102 to 6108 (6104 [GKN Modded] swapped with 1x from Deptford) = Crook Pronto service X21

- 6109 to 6112 = Riverside Red Kite service 47 to maintain commonality with the 45 / 46 specification

- 6113 to 6117 = Stanley Northern service 6 (only 3x need repainted as 6116 / 6117 already red)

- 6118 to 6119 = CLS Angel service 21

- 6120 to 6121 = CLS spare

are you for real? it won't happen DFDS Seaways will probs be getting new buses probs Next Year the Cobalt Clipper, Ten, Red Arrows, Red Kite and the red spares do not need new buses you must having a laugh the Cobalt Clipper ones were only new in Service in early 2014, Ten early 2013, Red Arrows Mid 2011/2012, Red Kite almost 6 months ago so these won't happen ask anyone

(02 Oct 2015, 8:56 pm)Michael wrote Re-post...

Why should Deptford loose a B9 for Hexham and Riverside though?

They won't.

Because 6104 has already been modified, this would transfer to Deptford and in turn, Deptford would give one which has not been modified to Riverside / Hexham.

(02 Oct 2015, 9:10 pm)Diamond One wrote are you for real? it won't happen DFDS Seaways will probs be getting new buses probs Next Year the Cobalt Clipper, Ten, Red Arrows, Red Kite and the red spares do not need new buses you must having a laugh the Cobalt Clipper ones were only new in Service in early 2014, Ten early 2013, Red Arrows Mid 2011/2012, Red Kite almost 6 months ago so these won't happen ask anyone

No chance of the DFDS shuttle getting new buses. DDA compliant at best but not worthy of new vehicles. And did I mention the Red Arrows? I did earlier on but not on the second post.

Also, the TEN would only receive an extra permanant B9 in the form of 6101 (not shared with the TTX unless an absolute emergency), nothing else unless GNE were willing to repaint an extra bus in the form of an Ex-Deptford B9 to allow 6101 to become a dedicated spare vehicle. Got to remember that the B9s purchased for the Cobalt Clipper were bought in a bulk of 34 vehicles and although this was cracking value for money at the time (I think), alot has changed since then and due to the emergence of lightweight vehicles unless GNE are willing to part ways with Wrightbus and migrate to ADL and Scania, then they will struggle for finding replacement vehicles for the likes of the Pronto.

(02 Oct 2015, 9:20 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote No chance of the DFDS shuttle getting new buses. DDA compliant at best but not worthy of new vehicles. And did I mention the Red Arrows? I did earlier on but not on the second post.

Also, the TEN would only receive an extra permanant B9 in the form of 6101 (not shared with the TTX unless an absolute emergency), nothing else unless GNE were willing to repaint an extra bus in the form of an Ex-Deptford B9 to allow 6101 to become a dedicated spare vehicle. Got to remember that the B9s purchased for the Cobalt Clipper were bought in a bulk of 34 vehicles and although this was cracking value for money at the time (I think), alot has changed since then and due to the emergence of lightweight vehicles unless GNE are willing to part ways with Wrightbus and migrate to ADL and Scania, then they will struggle for finding replacement vehicles for the likes of the Pronto.

more than likely DFDS Seaways are to receive new buses but you think that Gemini 2 are to be replaced on them routes there already on when there only young some they won't happen most enthusiasts will probs agree with me on this one well gemini 2 will not be replaced end of

(02 Oct 2015, 11:58 pm)Diamond One wrote more than likely DFDS Seaways are to receive new buses but you think that Gemini 2 are to be replaced on them routes there already on when there only young some they won't happen most enthusiasts will probs agree with me on this one well gemini 2 will not be replaced end of

What about 6084 that was only on the 56 for a year so there's nothing stopping the buying now buses for their most prestigious services.

(03 Oct 2015, 6:27 am)DanPicken wrote What about 6084 that was only on the 56 for a year so there's nothing stopping the buying now buses for their most prestigious services.

That was down to Go North East wanting to improve the service which meant the PVR decreased by one. Nothing to do with getting new buses for a service.

Hope GNE order some Volvo 7900H's this year.

does anyone know which depots are due new buses next year?

(07 Oct 2015, 1:30 pm)busspotterdean wrote does anyone know which depots are due new buses next year?

Welcome to the forum =)

Non DDA single decker's will have to be replaced by the 1.1.16.... 4986-4925 are currently getting converted to become DDA - this means they won't have to be sold on.... its currently unknown if the Duel door B10's will be modified to become DDA.

Wouldn't be surprised if its depots with non-DDA double decker buses also although the deadline is 1.1.2017 for double decker's, GNE will want to sell them on for some money while they have time left in service... so buses like the Tridents and the Olympian's may also get sold on.... GNE might also receive more Omnidekka's from Brighton in the next few months... so i've heard.

If it seems Go North East are going to favour the Streetdeck over the Enviro400MMC based on fuel consumption (and possibly their history of ordering from Wrights), I personally think they will order Wright Streetdecks for the X21. I'd much rather see the Enviro400MMC on that route, as I feel it would handle much better, but I think the Streetdeck will be seen as more favourable in terms of the operating cost.

With it now seeing use on the X9/X10; it wouldn't surprise me if Streetdecks are chosen for a possible future upgrade from the Volvo B9TLs. After all, only the Streetdeck has been trialed on the X9/X10, so that appears to be the only firm contender for such an investment. With this in mind, I've thought of a possible cascade and service improvement to go with it.

7x Wright Streetdecks for X9/X10 (6 branded and 1 spare);
Volvo B9TLs 6043-6048 transfer to Washington depot, branded as ''Red Arrows'';
''Red Arrows'' service X1 improved to a frequency of every 7/8 minutes during the day between Washington and Newcastle, it's busiest stretch.

(16 Oct 2015, 4:36 pm)R852 PRG wrote If it seems Go North East are going to favour the Streetdeck over the Enviro400MMC based on fuel consumption (and possibly their history of ordering from Wrights), I personally think they will order Wright Streetdecks for the X21. I'd much rather see the Enviro400MMC on that route, as I feel it would handle much better, but I think the Streetdeck will be seen as more favourable in terms of the operating cost.

With it now seeing use on the X9/X10; it wouldn't surprise me if Streetdecks are chosen for a possible future upgrade from the Volvo B9TLs. After all, only the Streetdeck has been trialed on the X9/X10, so that appears to be the only firm contender for such an investment. With this in mind, I've thought of a possible cascade and service improvement to go with it.

7x Wright Streetdecks for X9/X10 (6 branded and 1 spare);
Volvo B9TLs 6043-6048 transfer to Washington depot, branded as ''Red Arrows'';
''Red Arrows'' service X1 improved to a frequency of every 7/8 minutes during the day between Washington and Newcastle, it's busiest stretch.

I don't think the X1 warrants a 7-8min frequency let alone 5. The only time i would imagine an increased frequency would be viable is at peak times

(16 Oct 2015, 4:44 pm)JP6004 wrote I don't think the X1 warrants a 7-8min frequency let alone 5. The only time i would imagine an increased frequency would be viable is at peak times

Only at peak times i agree, the amount of people who use it between Washington and the Galleries is quite good.... maybe they'll take that in to consideration if they give the Red Arrow new buses....


Does anyone know how long the B5TL's have to be on the Angel before they can be moved else where? - sure it was a 5 year contract thing from the Green Bus Fund before they could be taken off the route?

(16 Oct 2015, 4:47 pm)Michael wrote Only at peak times i agree, the amount of people who use it between Washington and the Galleries is quite good.... maybe they'll take that in to consideration if they give the Red Arrow new buses....


Does anyone know how long the B5TL's have to be on the Angel before they can be moved else where? - sure it was a 5 year contract thing from the Green Bus Fund before they could be taken off the route?

Where else in Washington does it stop Michael 

(16 Oct 2015, 4:49 pm)JP6004 wrote Where else in Washington does it stop Michael 

Well people could go to Concord for the 56 but people choose to use the X1 as the galleries gives people more links. 

Why are people getting excited about the Streetdeck - its only on Demo... GNE might not even get any or will they.... 

(16 Oct 2015, 4:44 pm)JP6004 wrote I don't think the X1 warrants a 7-8min frequency let alone 5. The only time i would imagine an increased frequency would be viable is at peak times

I've never seen a short queue for the X1 when I've been at the Galleries, it's usually extending beyond the bottom of the escalators. The main aim of my suggestion is to offer an improved service from Washington to Newcastle, as this is without a doubt it's busiest section. I personally think this extended frequency is justified throughout the entire day; do you think the short Chester-le-Street to Newcastle 21s are justified during the day? 

(16 Oct 2015, 4:47 pm)Michael wrote Only at peak times i agree, the amount of people who use it between Washington and the Galleries is quite good.... maybe they'll take that in to consideration if they give the Red Arrow new buses....


Does anyone know how long the B5TL's have to be on the Angel before they can be moved else where? - sure it was a 5 year contract thing from the Green Bus Fund before they could be taken off the route?

Think it's five years for the Green Bus Fund; they cope very well in my opinion, it would be a strange decision to move them elsewhere in my opinion. Can see 6056-6070 being allocated to the 21 for at least another five years. Then again, we can't predict the mechanical state of them then.

(16 Oct 2015, 4:53 pm)Michael wrote Well people could go to Concord for the 56 but people choose to use the X1 as the galleries gives people more links. 

Why are people getting excited about the Streetdeck - its only on Demo... GNE might not even get any or will they.... 

Depending on peoples time of travel, they could get the 56 from the Galls....

(16 Oct 2015, 4:55 pm)R852 PRG wrote I've never seen a short queue for the X1 when I've been at the Galleries, it's usually extending beyond the bottom of the escalators. The main aim of my suggest is to offer an improved service from Washington to Newcastle, as this is without a doubt it's busiest section. I personally think this extended frequency is justified throughout the entire day; do you think the short Chester-le-Street to Newcastle 21s are justified during the day? 

Yes they are normally big queues, however they fill up the bus nicely. Think GNE would rather have a 3/4 to full bus on a 10 min frequency rather than pay extra for 7/8min frequency and only have bus half full. Probably part of the same reasoning why the 56 was cut to every 12mins.

As far as Im aware all the 21's (well the ones that don't run together) are generally quite busy. Plus the 21 stops at every stop along Durham Road, where as the X1 is limited stop

(16 Oct 2015, 4:55 pm)JP6004 wrote Depending on peoples time of trave, they could get the 56 from the Galls....

But the 56 doesn't go to the Galleries