Thinking on, GNE have a hell of a lot of Solars of a certain age - Fast cats and Waggonways are in a pretty desperate state, too, though I can see why PB might be prioritised as that's a very busy service in comparison to those two. Loop probably as busy as PB, as it was very busy when I used it regularly, particularly once Safeway/Sainsbobs opened on TVTE.

Probably been said before, but they'll no doubt see off the cadets and dual door renowns. That said, i had 5160 on the 16s today, i must say the B10 is one of the best buses i've ever had the pleasure to drive.

(20 Dec 2015, 12:19 am)BusLoverMum wrote Thinking on, GNE have a hell of a lot of Solars of a certain age - Fast cats and Waggonways are in a pretty desperate state, too, though I can see why PB might be prioritised as that's a very busy service in comparison to those two. Loop probably as busy as PB, as it was very busy when I used it regularly, particularly once Safeway/Sainsbobs opened on TVTE.

I think the loop has its busy periods, like most services, but i doubt its high on the gne radar for upgrade, maybe cascade mercs in a year or 2.

(19 Dec 2015, 9:27 pm)BusLoverMum wrote Well, don't hold out for cascaded Prince Bishops Solars. They're knackered, too. Probably even more so.

5213 has started stalking me again recently and has got rid of the annoying lurch it had when idling.
Seem to keep getting the 49xx batch recently, rather than the handful of newer 52xx members.

No idea whether work has been done on them prior to their impending move or of the fitters have managed to tame them - but the internal rattles and generally tattyness of the purple Solars, seem to have been lacking recently.

Stupid question but will the new buses be Euro 6?

Edit:

Also when the Prince Bishops get new buses, i think they should introduce a "Prince Bishops day/weekly ticket".

In a desperate attempt to come up with an alternative to the Streetlites on the 20 allocation...

Mercs from the 27, the Silver ones at Deptford and the two spares at Stanley on to the 20.
But it leaves the PVR just short.
Any ideas on what could be used to make up the balance?

The new Streetlites could then be split between Deptford, Riverside and Stanley.

The Seaham corridor would have a standard vehicle.
The 27 could have brand new vehicles.
The two spares at Stanley tie in with the existing fleet disposition.

(22 Dec 2015, 8:28 pm)Andreos1 wrote In a desperate attempt to come up with an alternative to the Streetlites on the 20 allocation...

Mercs from the 27, the Silver ones at Deptford and the two spares at Stanley on to the 20.
But it leaves the PVR just short.
Any ideas on what could be used to make up the balance?

The new Streetlites could then be split between Deptford, Riverside and Stanley.

The Seaham corridor would have a standard vehicle.
The 27 could have brand new vehicles.
The two spares at Stanley tie in with the existing fleet disposition.

Only thing I could have suggested as the most suitable aternative would be the Citaros from the ''Connections4'', but they're only just over half of the total PVR for the 20. They're only a couple of years old and still in fantastic shape, and I think they'd be much better suited to the 20/20A than Streetlites in the long term. Unfortunately they just aren't high enough in number, and then you've got the predicament of what to allocate to the 4 if you removed the Citaros from that route.

I think that although the Streetlites can rattle and probably won't last as long as a heavyweight single decker but still a decent anough time for what they are (maybe 12 years), the purchase and running cost of them are a no brainer and if looked after, they should have no performance issues.

I will still say that a Red Arrows upgrade with 7x going on the Pronto, 5x going corporate and 2x going on the Angel (and GKN modified) would've been a far better option rather than just buying new Streetdecks for the Pronto. It would've allowed the X1 to become GNE's flagship double deck service second to the Angel (including power sockets which are lacking on the current B9s on there and eLeather) whilst Riverside / Percy Main would've benifited from more better quality spare vehicles (also meaning 6084 could become a more premanent fixture on the TEN due to 6049 taking over the role as the tachograph spare B9). Chester would've also benefited from 2x extra modern Geminis for the Angel and several services and parts of the network would've benefited from the freed B7 Geminis including displacing the 2x non DDA compliant Lolynes on the DFDS work.

I hope this doesn't happen, but:
6001 & 6002 - Chester Le Street allowing 3962 & 3965 to transfer to Percy Main for the 327. This will allow Go North East to withdraw 3866 & 3867. 6003, 6004 & 6005 - also to Chester Le Street, so three more Lolynes can be withdrawn. 6006 & 6007 - Riverside so two of either 3818/19/24. 6049 - Riverside and branded for the TTX meaning 6084 could be branded for the TEN services. 6050-55 - Stanley - help wiithdraw the Lolynes and Olympians. 3943 - Stanley along with 6050 - 6055.

16x E400MMC for service X1, with 2 acting as spares, and one could be allocated to service X88 on the weekends.

Wait are we talking about next years orders already?, these ones haven't arrived yet. Lol

As no buses are on order for the "Red Arrows" this year.......

(22 Dec 2015, 9:15 pm)Michael wrote Wait are we talking about next years orders already?, these ones haven't arrived yet. Lol

You're usually the worst offender Michael.

Why is StreetLite's on the 20/20A seemingly such a horrifying prospect on here, I think we should at least see how they perform on the route before slating the performance of them. I know they do rattle a bit but so do the Solar's currently used on the service, an upgrade on this service has been long overdue I think and I think the StreetLite's will cope fine on this route, even with Houghton Cut, Arriva send their examples up worse hills than that and they seem to manage fine.

We're just keeping Davey happy man

(22 Dec 2015, 9:17 pm)Adrian wrote You're usually the worst offender Michael.

I'm not haha.

No but can we talk about this years orders and not next years.... that can be for a different thread... we know whats on order so why speculate what will happen to the "Red Arrows" B9's... when nothing is on order for them...

(22 Dec 2015, 9:18 pm)Jimmi wrote Why is StreetLite's on the 20/20A seemingly such a horrifying prospect on here, I think we should at least see how they perform on the route before slating the performance of them. I know they do rattle a bit but so do the Solar's currently used on the service, an upgrade on this service has been long overdue I think and I think the StreetLite's will cope fine on this route, even with Houghton Cut, Arriva send their examples up worse hills than that and they seem to manage fine.

If they can cope on the Coast & Country, then i'm sure they'll cope on the Prince Bishops....

(22 Dec 2015, 8:42 pm)R852 PRG wrote Only thing I could have suggested as the most suitable aternative would be the Citaros from the ''Connections4'', but they're only just over half of the total PVR for the 20. They're only a couple of years old and still in fantastic shape, and I think they'd be much better suited to the 20/20A than Streetlites in the long term. Unfortunately they just aren't high enough in number, and then you've got the predicament of what to allocate to the 4 if you removed the Citaros from that route.

Add 5332 to the my initial suggestion and I reckon there is enough to cover the PVR for the 20.

Perfect.
We just need the message to get to GNE towers!

(22 Dec 2015, 8:55 pm)DaveyBowyer wrote I think that although the Streetlites can rattle and probably won't last as long as a heavyweight single decker but still a decent anough time for what they are (maybe 12 years), the purchase and running cost of them are a no brainer and if looked after, they should have no performance issues.

I will still say that a Red Arrows upgrade with 7x going on the Pronto, 5x going corporate and 2x going on the Angel (and GKN modified) would've been a far better option rather than just buying new Streetdecks for the Pronto. It would've allowed the X1 to become GNE's flagship double deck service second to the Angel (including power sockets which are lacking on the current B9s on there and eLeather) whilst Riverside / Percy Main would've benifited from more better quality spare vehicles (also meaning 6084 could become a more premanent fixture on the TEN due to 6049 taking over the role as the tachograph spare B9). Chester would've also benefited from 2x extra modern Geminis for the Angel and several services and parts of the network would've benefited from the freed B7 Geminis including displacing the 2x non DDA compliant Lolynes on the DFDS work.

Mechanically, they may be fine.
The fitters may be able to keep them on the road - but the route is a pretty demanding one. Those rattly bits are at the mercy of three local authorities and their associated road/pothole repair methods.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:09 pm)Davie wrote I hope this doesn't happen, but:
6001 & 6002 - Chester Le Street allowing 3962 & 3965 to transfer to Percy Main for the 327. This will allow Go North East to withdraw 3866 & 3867. 6003, 6004 & 6005 - also to Chester Le Street, so three more Lolynes can be withdrawn. 6006 & 6007 - Riverside so two of either 3818/19/24. 6049 - Riverside and branded for the TTX meaning 6084 could be branded for the TEN services. 6050-55 - Stanley - help wiithdraw the Lolynes and Olympians. 3943 - Stanley along with 6050 - 6055.

16x E400MMC for service X1, with 2 acting as spares, and one could be allocated to service X88 on the weekends.

I'd have hoped that any further cascaded OmniDekkas from Brighton & Hove would be direct replacements for the remaining Lolynes and Olympians in the fleet. Makes it easier than a massive shuffle around as is being suggested.

I think the ''Red Arrows'' will stay as it is, as other things need priority. The TTX being an example of one. I wish Go North East could have trialled the Enviro400MMC on the X9/X10 as well as the X21, to give another comparison of that with the Streetdeck, and it would be nice to see the Scania-powered E400MMC that citaro5284 mentioned the other day, and for that to see use on the X9/X10. Would give further options for any possible investment in the future, as I honestly don't think Streetdecks could cope.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:22 pm)Michael wrote If they can cope on the Coast & Country, then i'm sure they'll cope on the Prince Bishops....

The ride quality, particularly on some of the rougher parts of the 78 is poor - with the internal rattles very frustrating.
The rattles felt through the floor didn't give me too much confidence either. 

Think the current Red Arrows B9s will be staying on the X1 for a while yet. X9/X10 will need new buses soon as if those B9s stay on the TTX for much longer they will start to become a irritant with breakdowns, seen a few breakdowns recently on there and no amount of spare corporate B9s with tachograph's will keep the branded examples in perfect working order.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:29 pm)Andreos1 wrote The ride quality, particularly on some of the rougher parts of the 78 is poor - with the internal rattles very frustrating.
The rattles felt through the floor didn't give me too much confidence either.

See i've only ever used it on parts of the routes, i haven't done all the route yet with the streetlites... thats something i will do when i get time, i'll report back on that.

I'd rather have Streetlites than Scania's though... for the free WIFI, plugs etc... i do like the scania's on the route though....

I think Streetlites will be a regular order now...

(22 Dec 2015, 9:32 pm)Jimmi wrote Think the current Red Arrows B9s will be staying on the X1 for a while yet. X9/X10 will need new buses soon as if those B9s stay on the TTX for much longer they will start to become a irritant with breakdowns, seen a few breakdowns recently on there and no amount of spare corporate B9s with tachograph's will keep the branded examples in perfect working order.

The X9/X10, is a demanding route, maybe more than any other route?, although i'm probables wrong...

I agree with you Jimmi about the state they could be in a few years time, the B7's proved that.....

(22 Dec 2015, 9:24 pm)R852 PRG wrote I'd have hoped that any further cascaded OmniDekkas from Brighton & Hove would be direct replacements for the remaining Lolynes and Olympians in the fleet. Makes it easier than a massive shuffle around as is being suggested.

I think the ''Red Arrows'' will stay as it is, as other things need priority. The TTX being an example of one. I wish Go North East could have trialled the Enviro400MMC on the X9/X10 as well as the X21, to give another comparison of that with the Streetdeck, and it would be nice to see the Scania-powered E400MMC that citaro5284 mentioned the other day, and for that to see use on the X9/X10. Would give further options for any possible investment in the future, as I honestly don't think Streetdecks could cope.

The reason I posted this was because 6001has gained advertisement boards, while 6004 hasn't. Of course, it may just be so that it will be like 3943, and have adverts as well as Redarrows branding, or it may be coming off the service.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:32 pm)Jimmi wrote Think the current Red Arrows B9s will be staying on the X1 for a while yet. X9/X10 will need new buses soon as if those B9s stay on the TTX for much longer they will start to become a irritant with breakdowns, seen a few breakdowns recently on there and no amount of spare corporate B9s with tachograph's will keep the branded examples in perfect working order.

Good. I think the B9s are suitabke for the X1, and Go North East would probably only replace the with Streetwrecks anyway.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:37 pm)Davie wrote The reason I posted this was because 6001has gained advertisement boards, while 6004 hasn't. Of course, it may just be so that it will be like 3943, and have adverts as well as Redarrows branding, or it may be coming off the service.
Good. I think the B9s are suitabke for the X1, and Go North East would probably only replace the with Streetwrecks anyway.

It's always possible that the advert frames are coming from buses which have been withdrawn, so possibly when more buses are withdrawn the other examples may gain them.

I don't think the StreetDeck's are too bad, don't get me wrong they ain't no B9 but I think they will be okay on the X21, here's hoping GNE will maybe set the examples on the X21 up for performance like 9119 has been for the X9/X10 although I imagine that they'll be set up to be more economical.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:34 pm)Michael wrote See i've only ever used it on parts of the routes, i haven't done all the route yet with the streetlites... thats something i will do when i get time, i'll report back on that.

I'd rather have Streetlites than Scania's though... for the free WIFI, plugs etc... i do like the scania's on the route though....

I think Streetlites will be a regular order now...

I've done the full route on 8 and 78, and the Streetlites perform really well on both services. Lack acceleration in some places though this issue has been dealt with in service revisions. Quite nippy once they get going though - if you've got a heavy footed driver!

You have to squirm a bit after a while as it can get a little uncomfortable, but I find that's the same with most bus seating types, especially after getting used to a car.

I find you can usually ignore the rattles, and the main problem for me (which it is in all Streetlites), is the LED lighting sometimes fading a little but then coming back, rather than being a consistent brightness. I think that the audio announcements paired with the noise of other passengers helps get rid of some of the rattles.

Perfect from a customer point of view in my opinion. Nice and warm, with all the added on-board features.

(22 Dec 2015, 9:52 pm)Dan wrote I've done the full route on 8 and 78, and the Streetlites perform really well on both services. Lack acceleration in some places though this issue has been dealt with in service revisions. Quite nippy once they get going though - if you've got a heavy footed driver!

You have to squirm a bit after a while as it can get a little uncomfortable, but I find that's the same with most bus seating types, especially after getting used to a car.

I find you can usually ignore the rattles, and the main problem for me (which it is in all Streetlites), is the LED lighting sometimes fading a little but then coming back, rather than being a consistent brightness. I think that the audio announcements paired with the noise of other passengers helps get rid of some of the rattles.

Perfect from a customer point of view in my opinion. Nice and warm, with all the added on-board features.

I did the 78 from Stanley to Consett yesterday and I thought the StreetLite was alright, performed well including on a fast part of the route. Glad it's not just me who's noticed the inconsistent brightness of the lights. I couldn't hear much in the way of rattles yesterday but I was sat one row from the back, was listening to my IPod and had a fair few passengers on-board board and was also using the WiFi (after making several attempts to connect to the WiFi as my phone is stupid).

(22 Dec 2015, 9:52 pm)Dan wrote I've done the full route on 8 and 78, and the Streetlites perform really well on both services. Lack acceleration in some places though this issue has been dealt with in service revisions. Quite nippy once they get going though - if you've got a heavy footed driver!

You have to squirm a bit after a while as it can get a little uncomfortable, but I find that's the same with most bus seating types, especially after getting used to a car.

I find you can usually ignore the rattles, and the main problem for me (which it is in all Streetlites), is the LED lighting sometimes fading a little but then coming back, rather than being a consistent brightness. I think that the audio announcements paired with the noise of other passengers helps get rid of some of the rattles.

Perfect from a customer point of view in my opinion. Nice and warm, with all the added on-board features.

From what i've used of the C&C route, i can say i really like them, the seats can get uncomfortable after a while. 

However as we know, every bus has good & bad points, there isn't a perfect bus out in the market and there never will be....

(22 Dec 2015, 9:37 pm)Davie wrote The reason I posted this was because 6001has gained advertisement boards, while 6004 hasn't.

Maybe they don't need as many decker after the reduction of the 921 service at end of Feb? 

(22 Dec 2015, 9:24 pm)Andreos1 wrote Add 5332 to the my initial suggestion and I reckon there is enough to cover the PVR for the 20.

Perfect.
We just need the message to get to GNE towers!


Mechanically, they may be fine.
The fitters may be able to keep them on the road - but the route is a pretty demanding one. Those rattly bits are at the mercy of three local authorities and their associated road/pothole repair methods.

Refers to comments upthread - and both GNE's coast and country and Arriva's 22 have to deal with Sunderland's terrible road surfaces as well as the steep climbs in Co Durham.

And, apart from Durham and Sunderland, what's the 3rd for the PB?

(22 Dec 2015, 9:52 pm)Dan wrote I've done the full route on 8 and 78, and the Streetlites perform really well on both services. Lack acceleration in some places though this issue has been dealt with in service revisions. Quite nippy once they get going though - if you've got a heavy footed driver!

You have to squirm a bit after a while as it can get a little uncomfortable, but I find that's the same with most bus seating types, especially after getting used to a car.

I find you can usually ignore the rattles, and the main problem for me (which it is in all Streetlites), is the LED lighting sometimes fading a little but then coming back, rather than being a consistent brightness. I think that the audio announcements paired with the noise of other passengers helps get rid of some of the rattles.

Perfect from a customer point of view in my opinion. Nice and warm, with all the added on-board features.

Now, warm, they're not! (Except in a heatwave!)

(23 Dec 2015, 12:24 am)BusLoverMum wrote Refers to comments upthread - and both GNE's coast and country and Arriva's 22 have to deal with Sunderland's terrible road surfaces as well as the steep climbs in Co Durham.

And, apart from Durham and Sunderland, what's the 3rd for the PB?

South Tyneside.