(01 Jun 2016, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Much like BusLoverMum and Northern156, I also enjoy your maps and appreciate the effort it must take.

Speaking of Elwick and the A19, I have found at least one service from 1978 which would have served both the west of the town, Elwick Village and, quite possibly, the stops on the A19 judging by the route it took.



There also used to be local service which served Dalton Piercy and the Dalton Lodge and quite possibly Elwick as well although I can't remember the number.

Although further north than Elwick and Dalton Piercy, I am pretty sure a forerunner to what is now the 58, called at the stop on the southbound A19 at the eastern end of Hutton Henry

(01 Jun 2016, 8:08 pm)Jackamcardle wrote I'm off to Foursrtones/Newborugh tomorrow - lets see how many old bus stops I can find!
Target - 5

I do hope you uncover some old bus stops, however as a regular visitor to that area, I think you'll struggle to meet your target.

While services have passed between operators over the years, the service is pretty much the same. If you really want to find some old bus stops around the area served by GNE's Tynedale Links, try Acomb - there's at least one there.

(01 Jun 2016, 8:13 pm)MurdnunoC wrote I do hope you uncover some old bus stops, however as a regular visitor to that area, I think you'll struggle to meet your target.

While services have passed between operators over the years, the service is pretty much the same. If you really want to find some old bus stops around the area served by GNE's Tynedale Links, try Acomb - there's at least one there.

I've been to Acomb, and found it before!

(31 May 2016, 8:23 pm)James101 wrote https://www.scribblemaps.com/create/#id=cWDtSS7Yvk&lat=54.6898257447798&lng=-1.2383426126251607&z=13&t=custom_style

EDIT: I think the above link only works on a desktop browser



Combining my interest of buses, maps and urban development/decay, I've spent a few hours plotting Hartlepool's bus stops.

I'm not claiming its 100% accurate and I'm open to corrections. The basic key is green = an active stop, red = a disused stop. I've classed an active stop as one which has a registered service stopping at least once per day. As such, stops on the minibus route 65 are excluded but stops on once-a-day service 20 is included. 

I collated the information through my own knowledge of the area verified using Streetview, so it's possible that some disused have disappeared since the last Google images were taken. Equally, where there is a route of disused stops, there is occasionally only a marker on one side of the road as the opposite has been taken down and therefore no stop now exists.

Zooming our to see the whole town at once it's interesting to see that Hartlepool is well covered by stops, wether they be used or disused. At this level it is also easy to see the areas which have been left bus-baren as services have retrenched; largely the rural west of the town and the immediate east and west of the town centre as routes have been simplified as they pass through the middle of the town.  

On zooming in there's some interesting detail. Areas in Seaton Carew, Clavering and Throston have disused stops where two routes have merged into one or have been revised to operate in a terminal loop and therefore only serving one side of a road. There's also so oddities such as the lone stops on Ocean Drive & Summerhill which I believe were last used by the Countryside bus 401. There's also a stop on the now blocked road around Jacksons landing, last served I think by Shopping Shuttle 25 operated by Cleveland Transit's Leyland PD3. 

To crunch some numbers:

I counted 536 stops overall

Of which 209 are disused

That equates to 39% of stops in Hartlepool are not in use

Or to put it another way, if you pick a stop at random and head there today, there's only a 3 in 5 chance a bus will ever come!

Unfortunately I can't see the map, with being on my phone.
Tried on two now, with no joy.

I knew there was a fair few stops not served now - like the ones on the roads I mentioned a few weeks back.
Genuinely had no idea that there were so many across the town - the sort of numbers which could open up a debate around de-regulation, the big operators leaving communities excluded etc.

(01 Jun 2016, 9:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote Unfortunately I can't see the map, with being on my phone.
Tried on two now, with no joy.

I knew there was a fair few stops not served now - like the ones on the roads I mentioned a few weeks back.
Genuinely had no idea that there were so many across the town - the sort of numbers which could open up a debate around de-regulation, the big operators leaving communities excluded etc.

And the daft thing is that quiet routes and even areas can be turned around. What's impressed me, this week, is how busy most of the 22s we've caught have been. We don't have many more buses per hour than 12-13 years ago, when we moved here and actually fewer buses than about 5 years ago when we had the 21, 21A, 22 and 57A, but the vehicles are much, much nicer and the connectivity is much better to the places people want to visit the most (apart from the Trimdons and Sedgefield, which take over an hour to get to by 2 buses, now, rather than the previous 20-30 minutes on a single bus, which is annoying for people with family that way). I've also noticed that more fares are taken than there used to be. Was a time when most passengers towards Durham were ENCT and students.

I think there's a vicious circle. If a route isn't very frequent, people CBA. If the service is unreliable, people really CBA (particularly if it means they run the risk of a £15 taxi fare if they need to be home for a certain time and the hourly bus is a no show). The 22 was both of those before it went twice hourly, swapped over to finishing in Sunderland instead of Hartlepool and then got the Sapphire streetlites. People actually quite like using it, now. I don't know what ANE's figures are for the first year of being a Sapphire route, but there has to have been at least a 50% increase in usage.

(01 Jun 2016, 8:08 pm)Andreos1 wrote Although further north than Elwick and Dalton Piercy, I am pretty sure a forerunner to what is now the 58, called at the stop on the southbound A19 at the eastern end of Hutton Henry

I believe the Jayline 211 ran through Hutton Henry in both directions and presumably servered the stops you mention in the hamlet of Sheraton. I believe when GNE took over they wanted to avoid the need for the bus to cross the carriageway of the A19 to head south so the route was revised away from there.
After this Arriva served Hutton Henry by sending Durham bound 22s via the village and Peterlee bound 246s the other way. This system meant Hutton Henry had a bus in each direction to Wingate but neither route needed to cross the A19. All that's left now is the single direction 246 which makes a journey to Wingate impractical.

(01 Jun 2016, 9:33 pm)Andreos1 wrote Unfortunately I can't see the map, with being on my phone.
Tried on two now, with no joy.

I knew there was a fair few stops not served now - like the ones on the roads I mentioned a few weeks back.
Genuinely had no idea that there were so many across the town - the sort of numbers which could open up a debate around de-regulation, the big operators leaving communities excluded etc.

It was your comments which got me thinking in the first place!


Like most councils, there's been a bit of talk from Hartlepool about the council taking back control of the buses. I find it a bit Pot Kettle Black as the council acted just as rashly as Stagecoach when they reduced their bus subsidy budget to £0 with no public consultation. Since they've frittered away money on things such as purchasing a property to stop it being used for asylum seekers. Losing a legal battle around keeping said asylum seekers. Finding a loss making cafe vanity project (cafe in the crem) and binning a town plan it cost over £1m to produce.

I'm against QCS in principle but I think Hartlepool would be a perfect case study for those in favour.

(01 Jun 2016, 10:20 pm)BusLoverMum wrote And the daft thing is that quiet routes and even areas can be turned around. What's impressed me, this week, is how busy most of the 22s we've caught have been. We don't have many more buses per hour than 12-13 years ago, when we moved here and actually fewer buses than about 5 years ago when we had the 21, 21A, 22 and 57A, but the vehicles are much, much nicer and the connectivity is much better to the places people want to visit the most (apart from the Trimdons and Sedgefield, which take over an hour to get to by 2 buses, now, rather than the previous 20-30 minutes on a single bus, which is annoying for people with family that way). I've also noticed that more fares are taken than there used to be. Was a time when most passengers towards Durham were ENCT and students.

I think there's a vicious circle. If a route isn't very frequent, people CBA. If the service is unreliable, people really CBA (particularly if it means they run the risk of a £15 taxi fare if they need to be home for a certain time and the hourly bus is a no show). The 22 was both of those before it went twice hourly, swapped over to finishing in Sunderland instead of Hartlepool and then got the Sapphire streetlites. People actually quite like using it, now. I don't know what ANE's figures are for the first year of being a Sapphire route, but there has to have been at least a 50% increase in usage.

I may be wrong but I remember reading something about Arriva and DCC working together in when the budget cuts came about to find solutions so cuts would have less impact. The Hartlepool case was a total breakdown of communication.

Since the DB takeover Arriva seem to be successfully embracing the commercialisation of the bus industry by making their product more appealing in both the vehicles used and places served.  Stagecoach's way forward, it seems, is cost saving focused. 

In fairness, Stagecoach are up against it in some respects. Where the bus is the only option for many people in the well spaced villages of Durham, in Hartlepool it's often cheaper for 2 people to share a taxi to town rather than single bus fares. 

6 years into the cuts, it could be too far gone for Hartlepool. A whole generation of youngsters have now been brought up with a bare-bones service that driving will seem the only option for them. New estates have been and are being developed with no consideration for buses and therefore only car owners will live there and there will never be a need for a service. 

I know when my family wanted to move from Throston Grange to Seaton Carew, the ability for my Mam to be able to get us on a bus was a factor. I worry families in the same situation now will feel stuck.

(01 Jun 2016, 1:19 pm)northern156 wrote I'm the same as BusLoverMum regarding your map, James101. I really like it!
https://goo.gl/maps/iQqBNN2orwm
I've never really given it a thought before but it is somewhat alarming with the amount of red on there. For somewhere predominantly served by one of the largest companies in the UK, it's quite odd to see.

Thank you! Scribble maps may well be my new favourite thing. The image in your link seems rather extreme! How much anti social behaviour could there have been? Unless there's a defect inside which made the structure unsafe?

(01 Jun 2016, 7:51 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Much like BusLoverMum and Northern156, I also enjoy your maps and appreciate the effort it must take.

Speaking of Elwick and the A19, I have found at least one service from 1978 which would have served both the west of the town, Elwick Village and, quite possibly, the stops on the A19 judging by the route it took.



There also used to be local service which served Dalton Piercy and the Dalton Lodge and quite possibly Elwick as well although I can't remember the number.

It's interesting there was such a service running so late in the evening for such a rural area. On saying that I vaguely recall the evening villager bus (518) surviving slightly longer than the day service (516) as the 518 briefly ran under guardianship of the council itself using a mobility vehicle.

I also love the wonderfully optimistic timing of old timetables. 13 minutes from town to Elwick is what google maps quotes as the driving time today, not including traffic or pesky passengers at bus stops!

(01 Jun 2016, 11:11 pm)James101 wrote I believe the Jayline 211 ran through Hutton Henry in both directions and presumably servered the stops you mention in the hamlet of Sheraton. I believe when GNE took over they wanted to avoid the need for the bus to cross the carriageway of the A19 to head south so the route was revised away from there.
After this Arriva served Hutton Henry by sending Durham bound 22s via the village and Peterlee bound 246s the other way. This system meant Hutton Henry had a bus in each direction to Wingate but neither route needed to cross the A19. All that's left now is the single direction 246 which makes a journey to Wingate impractical.

Hutton Henry now has the Go North East 206 to Peterlee heading via Wingate on journeys towards Hutton Henry but not towards Peterlee. The Durham County Council supported service 58 operated by Scarlet Band runs through Hutton Henry on the opposite side of the road to the 206 on Durham bound journeys which runs via Wingate, so it is currently possible to get to/from Hutton Henry and Wingate although you have to change operator, that said you can't do Hutton Henry - Hartlepool but you can do Hartlepool - Hutton Henry.

(02 Jun 2016, 6:23 am)Jimmi wrote Hutton Henry now has the Go North East 206 to Peterlee heading via Wingate on journeys towards Hutton Henry but not towards Peterlee. The Durham County Council supported service 58 operated by Scarlet Band runs through Hutton Henry on the opposite side of the road to the 206 on Durham bound journeys which runs via Wingate, so it is currently possible to get to/from Hutton Henry and Wingate although you have to change operator, that said you can't do Hutton Henry - Hartlepool but you can do Hartlepool - Hutton Henry.

Ah I didn't realise the 58 went via Hutton Henry, and I forgot the 246 became the 206 under GNE operation.



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(01 Jun 2016, 11:19 pm)James101 wrote It was your comments which got me thinking in the first place!


Like most councils, there's been a bit of talk from Hartlepool about the council taking back control of the buses. I find it a bit Pot Kettle Black as the council acted just as rashly as Stagecoach when they reduced their bus subsidy budget to £0 with no public consultation. Since they've frittered away money on things such as purchasing a property to stop it being used for asylum seekers. Losing a legal battle around keeping said asylum seekers. Finding a loss making cafe vanity project (cafe in the crem) and binning a town plan it cost over £1m to produce.

I'm against QCS in principle but I think Hartlepool would be a perfect case study for those in favour.

One of many!

Stand L at MetroCentre Bus Station still has the old GNE 'Diamond' 43/44 signage, not sure if the opposite stand (F) has the same as I use E if going back the other way, probably does though. Haven't checked other stands for any old route brands/numbers.


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(03 Jun 2016, 12:16 am)TEN 6083 wrote Stand L at MetroCentre Bus Station still has the old GNE 'Diamond' 43/44 signage, not sure if the opposite stand (F) has the same as I use E if going back the other way, probably does though. Haven't checked other stands for any old route brands/numbers.


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There's quite a few of the coloured stand signs there out of date where branding and route numbers have changed. Big'un thinks 47 is still displayed as "toonlink". 31 is still displayed. Can't remember any others for now.

Yeah there are loads of stands at the Metrocentre that havent had the old details removed - logical to assume all the routes that changed in October have not been changed yet (given the 43/44 is still there)

(03 Jun 2016, 8:41 am)BusLoverMum wrote There's quite a few of the coloured stand signs there out of date where branding and route numbers have changed. Big'un thinks 47 is still displayed as "toonlink". 31 is still displayed. Can't remember any others for now.

Big'un is correct. All of the signage remains the same since the last GNE overhaul of routes serving Metrocentre. X43 is still dislayed as is 49B or C or whatever.

(03 Jun 2016, 8:41 am)BusLoverMum wrote There's quite a few of the coloured stand signs there out of date where branding and route numbers have changed. Big'un thinks 47 is still displayed as "toonlink". 31 is still displayed. Can't remember any others for now.

It is a while since I used the X66, but the old 'Centrelink' branding was above that stop last time I was waiting.

Here is the ANE 602 sticker that still adorns Prudhoe Waterworld Bus Stop that I mentioned in a previous post


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I found one! Hamsterley Bank top, believe it was served by the 758 and 759, the old Consett - Chopwell route - I may be wrong.

(03 Jun 2016, 7:34 pm)Jackamcardle wrote I found one! Hamsterley Bank top, believe it was served by the 758 and 759, the old Consett - Chopwell route - I may be wrong.

Does the V9 not stop there?

(03 Jun 2016, 8:26 pm)Tom wrote Does the V9 not stop there?

Yes, it is a timing point of service V9.

(03 Jun 2016, 8:28 pm)S813 FVK wrote Yes, it is a timing point of service V9.

Thought it did

There's a few in Consett if you know where to look.

Also, because the signs at Metrocentre have been mentioned, there are one or two around the vicinity of Stanley too.

(03 Jun 2016, 8:28 pm)S813 FVK wrote Yes, it is a timing point of service V9.

It wasn't registered as a stop on Google Maps, so I thought otherwise. I thought it used the one which the 45/46 use?

(04 Jun 2016, 8:47 am)Jackamcardle wrote It wasn't registered as a stop on Google Maps, so I thought otherwise. I thought it used the one which the 45/46 use?

Is that the one just before the Blackhall Mill river?

I think the 45E also stops there, in addition to the V9.

The Cathedral bus stop is a bit out of date. The stop flag itself and the easily replaceable poster in the shelter. Not very clear photo, unfortunately.

Spotted this in Staffordshire.

Not of local interest, but still remarkably well preserved - and in use toady. 

Stevensons of Uttoxeter were at one time the largest independent bus operator in the country. They were sold to Arriva (British Bus) in 1994 which dates this sign as being at least 22 years old, though I suspect it'll be even older than that. Under Arriva ownership, two Opatre Vectas (1557 & 1558) were sent up from their Burton upon Trent operation to operate on Teesside in a fleet standardisation exercise.  

Toady Arriva are in the process of selling the much of the old Stevensons operation back to regional independent Midland Classic. Midland Classic have repainted a Scania in the livery on Stevensons as a nod to their history; maybe that bus and this stop should be introduced for a photo opportunity?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/je1791/27605314585/

Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but... I saw this on Dales & District Solo MX57CCF this afternoon. Interesting to see how their routes have changed and being cut over the last few years (bit miffed about the 79 being on there with it being a Hodgsons route).


Notably MX57CCF still has the old Dales & District logos on the exterior.

The East Quayside buslink in Newcastle near Spillers Wharf now counts as the Q3 no longer uses it