(07 Jun 2018, 8:57 am)Andreos1 wrote Couldn't make it up.

Private company picks up contracts previously held by public sector (supposedly more cost effective).

Private company collapses.
People lose jobs.

Public picks up the tab.

These private companies that were supposed to be free of the inefficiencuin of the public sector had more bloat and arse elbow disconnect than you could ever imagine. (H worked for serco for a while).

(07 Jun 2018, 10:24 am)Jamie M wrote I think there are times and places for private contracts, but I believe they should be non-essential in a public business, rather than the entire business.

Often than not, the publicly run services are more efficient given they are run with thoughts to purpose and intention of the service, not creaming money. There are certainly cases where private companies do a good job, but it will very rarely compromise profit margins.

I don't think in the UK there's a great need to reform infrastructure (other than rail where it was clearly better under gov control) but just more investment in the services that it currently provides. I also believe if private tenders are raised in value (i.e money paid to contractor), the requirements can also be made tighter in terms of what must be done, and obviously there will be more people willing to take under a more valuable contract, thus provoking more spotlight on providing good quality private contracts.

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https://newint.org/features/2018/05/01/t...iency-myth

For services to business and philanthropy - it's Dame Ann Gloag!

This thread has died off a bit, which is a shame. 


The whole Brexit thing is a shambles.
Both sides of the negotiation teams have hardly covered themselves in glory and the MSM are hardly helping things. 
Day after day, we see and hear that Brexit is to blame for job losses and again, with Honda in Swindon.
Apparently Brexit has caused them to re-focus energies elsewhere, as the potential JIT problems getting parts in from Europe, coupled with the potential tariffs that exist, mean Swindon is no longer viable.
Except how many jobs were lost when the JIT manufacturing sites moved from the UK to Europe, using EU incentives?
How will those sites manage to get parts from Europe to Japan (where Honda are shifting the work), quicker than via the North Sea or English Channel? 
How will the removal of tariffs agreed in the latest trade deal between the EU and Japan affect other manufacturers across the EU? 
How has the EU diesel emissions regs impacted on car manufacturers around the bloc? 
The propaganda we are seeing pumped out on a daily basis is amazing. People are falling for these half truths and in some cases lies... 

Then, we have the ever growing group of independents, (currently) made up of a mixture of ex tories and ex Labour mp's. Labour mp's aligning with Tory mp's - who would have thought such a bunch of characters would have so many things in common?

(20 Feb 2019, 12:42 pm)Andreos1 wrote This thread has died off a bit, which is a shame. 


The whole Brexit thing is a shambles.
Both sides of the negotiation teams have hardly covered themselves in glory and the MSM are hardly helping things. 
Day after day, we see and hear that Brexit is to blame for job losses and again, with Honda in Swindon.
Apparently Brexit has caused them to re-focus energies elsewhere, as the potential JIT problems getting parts in from Europe, coupled with the potential tariffs that exist, mean Swindon is no longer viable.
Except how many jobs were lost when the JIT manufacturing sites moved from the UK to Europe, using EU incentives?
How will those sites manage to get parts from Europe to Japan (where Honda are shifting the work), quicker than via the North Sea or English Channel? 
How will the removal of tariffs agreed in the latest trade deal between the EU and Japan affect other manufacturers across the EU? 
How has the EU diesel emissions regs impacted on car manufacturers around the bloc? 
The propaganda we are seeing pumped out on a daily basis is amazing. People are falling for these half truths and in some cases lies... 

Then, we have the ever growing group of independents, (currently) made up of a mixture of ex tories and ex Labour mp's. Labour mp's aligning with Tory mp's - who would have thought such a bunch of characters would have so many things in common?

My view is Europe is pretty much also in shambles, but I think reform should have been the agenda, not leaving it for an unknown outcome.

Many think we survived WW2 without Europe and therefore we can now, but so many things have changed since then, we live internationally connected lives in the western world. We share ideas and use products from so many different countries.

I think there has been no opposition to brexit. Everyone knows what they don't want, nobody knows what they do want. There's only push factors, no pull factors.

No deal is uncertain and nobody knows what it could mean. May's deal is awful, and going back to Europe still leaves us with the same issues as before. Not only this, but we will be looked down on and made an example of how nobody can leave the union.

I think businesses have also been stretching brexit as a way of scaremongering. This is from someone who isn't a eurosceptic.

A people's vote seems poorly received, voting on a vote sounds silly.

If we leave, half the population will be upset that their say was not represented.

If we stay, half the population will be upset that they didn't get what they fairly voted for.

Hands are well and truly tied.

Clocks ticking, but towards what? I dread to think.

One person to blame for this. David Cameron. Should never have bowed down to his right wing hard liners of the conservative party by promising a referendum in the first place!

(20 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm)Rob44 wrote One person to blame for this. David Cameron. Should never have bowed down to his right wing hard liners of the conservative party by promising a referendum in the first place!

He was the one who made the interview on tv before he became prime minister saying we should come out of the EU, he soon went afterwards thinking the vote would be no brexit.

“No deal all the way”


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(20 Feb 2019, 2:21 pm)Rob44 wrote One person to blame for this. David Cameron. Should never have bowed down to his right wing hard liners of the conservative party by promising a referendum in the first place!

Totally agree there, and where is he now......no where to be seen

sunning himself in Southern France I think!

(20 Feb 2019, 12:51 pm)Jamie M wrote My view is Europe is pretty much also in shambles, but I think reform should have been the agenda, not leaving it for an unknown outcome.

Many think we survived WW2 without Europe and therefore we can now, but so many things have changed since then, we live internationally connected lives in the western world. We share ideas and use products from so many different countries.

I think there has been no opposition to brexit. Everyone knows what they don't want, nobody knows what they do want. There's only push factors, no pull factors.

No deal is uncertain and nobody knows what it could mean. May's deal is awful, and going back to Europe still leaves us with the same issues as before. Not only this, but we will be looked down on and made an example of how nobody can leave the union.

I think businesses have also been stretching brexit as a way of scaremongering. This is from someone who isn't a eurosceptic.

A people's vote seems poorly received, voting on a vote sounds silly.

If we leave, half the population will be upset that their say was not represented.

If we stay, half the population will be upset that they didn't get what they fairly voted for.

Hands are well and truly tied.

Clocks ticking, but towards what? I dread to think.

I think it's a case of seeing who will blink first. 
Regardless of the media insistence on a no deal being bad for Britain, imagine how bad it would be for EU member states?
I can't even begin to imagine the problems for Dutch or German fisherman, who sell to UK markets. 

The EU must know that it isn't all one way traffic and that the exports and sales from the countries on the other side of the sea will be affected too?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politic...s-of-buses

Mind blown!

https://twitter.com/BBCArchive/status/11...10688?s=09

A brilliant 10mins of life in Sunderland in 1979.

A state of hopelessness - 2 more orders lined up at the yards and little chance of employment for the guys they followed round.

Some vintage shots of Sunderland and a bus or two, too!

The result of the Labour leadership vote is due next Saturday. It is easy to forget that such a vote is even happening.

I wonder whether Keir (or Rebecca or Lisa) will even want to make many Shadow Cabinet changes at this stage. Maybe merely appoint successors to John McDonnell, Diane Abbott and whoever else stands down but make few if any other changes.

(28 Mar 2020, 12:46 pm)Metroline1511 wrote The result of the Labour leadership vote is due next Saturday.  It is easy to forget that such a vote is even happening.

I wonder whether Keir (or Rebecca or Lisa) will even want to make many Shadow Cabinet changes at this stage.  Maybe merely appoint successors to John McDonnell, Diane Abbott and whoever else stands down but make few if any other changes.

I think some shuffling is inevitable. I do hope Keir gets it, he is probably the most moderate of the lot, though I do feel he will be a caretaker leader as I don't think Labour will win the next general election after our jolly to the hard left put so many people off. i went to the leadership hustings in Durham and I was infuriated by Long-Baily endlessly harping on that the polices announced at the last GE were still right.

My main worry though is Momentum, they have been infiltrated by the right (including my ex) with the sole purpose of causing as much harm to the party as possible and ensure they remain unelectable. Without that going on, Momentum is already pure poison.

(31 Mar 2020, 11:37 pm)solsburian wrote I think some shuffling is inevitable. I do hope Keir gets it, he is probably the most moderate of the lot, though I do feel he will be a caretaker leader as I don't think Labour will win the next general election after our jolly to the hard left put so many people off. i went to the leadership hustings in Durham and I was infuriated by Long-Baily endlessly harping on that the polices announced at the last GE were still right.

My main worry though is Momentum, they have been infiltrated by the right (including my ex) with the sole purpose of causing as much harm to the party as possible and ensure they remain unelectable. Without that going on, Momentum is already pure poison.

The full line-up of shadow ministers, including those at a junior level, is listed here

https://labour.org.uk/people/shadow-cabinet/

(11 Apr 2020, 6:04 pm)Metroline1511 wrote The full line-up of shadow ministers, including those at a junior level, is listed here

https://labour.org.uk/people/shadow-cabinet/

Glad he won! Some of my faith in the party has been restored.

(15 Apr 2020, 5:40 pm)solsburian wrote Glad he won! Some of my faith in the party has been restored.

As you can probably tell by some of my other posts, I'm not a particular supporter of the Labour Party, but hopefully in the next election there might be a bit more competition!

(16 Apr 2020, 11:57 am)streetdeckfan wrote As you can probably tell by some of my other posts, I'm not a particular supporter of the Labour Party, but hopefully in the next election there might be a bit more competition!

When Corbyn got the leadership I was going out with a member of Conservatives. While mine and their different political viewpoints was the source of friendly banter, they did make a good point; a good government needs effective opposition to keep it in check, and we wouldn't get that with Corbyn. They were absolutely right of course.

It is unlikely we will win the next general election, and I'm doubting we will regain many seats, though hopefully it will be a start of getting Labour back on track to being an effective opposition and a more palatable party to the general public.

(30 Apr 2020, 2:40 pm)solsburian wrote When Corbyn got the leadership I was going out with a member of Conservatives. While mine and their different political viewpoints was the source of friendly banter, they did make a good point; a good government needs effective opposition to keep it in check, and we wouldn't get that with Corbyn. They were absolutely right of course.

It is unlikely we will win the next general election, and I'm doubting we will regain many seats, though hopefully it will be a start of getting Labour back on track to being an effective opposition and a more palatable party to the general public.

There are a couple key reasons (IMO) that the Conservatives won with such a majority in the last election, the number one for me was personality. Say what you want about the policies, there's no denying that people just like Boris, whether they're a Tory or not, and people just didn't like Corbyn.
I think the problem was Corbyn went all in on the student vote and 'forgot' about the core Labour voter, and for the first time in a while Conservatives had a likeable leader. To me, it was less about the politics, and more about having somebody they could tolerate in Number 10.

The other reason was obviously Brexit. Everybody already knew that Boris was a 'leaver' so the Conservatives quite easily marketed themselves as the Leave party.
I feel fairly confident in saying that Corbyn, at heart, was also a 'leaver', but the audience he'd been campaigning to, as well as a large number of Labour MPs, were very much 'remainers', so he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. The only thing he could really do was be neutral, and that never ends well.
What ended up happening was the hard Leave voters went Conservative, the hard Remain voters went with Lib Dems, and for those who were frankly sick of it being dragged on there was one simple choice, vote for the one that would 'Get Brexit Done' (one of the best bits of political marketing I've seen in a long time).
By sitting on the fence, Corbyn lost those on both sides of the argument, and was left with the students, and those who would vote Labour even if they were the next Nazi party 

I think with Corbyn gone, people will feel less 'embarrassed' about voting Labour, I saw a hell of a lot less Labour signs in people's window this election than previously!

Obviously we haven't seen much of Starmer yet, but from what I've seen so far he seems to be acting more like a politician and less like an activist!

It wasn't because they liked Boris - it was an election won and lost on Brexit, with unfortunately many of what we'd consider 'core' Labour voters, feeling let down and disenfranchised with the Party's position on Brexit. It was an awful position; cobbled together to try and suit as many different groupings as possible, rather than having a simple (and democratic) policy. The leader not firmly committing one way or the other wasn't helpful either.

It is nonsense that Corbyn went 'all in' on the student vote. That couldn't be further from the truth. There was more in the manifesto for working people and workers rights, which IMO, were some of the best policies we had. A problem was that the policy messages were too complex and too long term, rather than focusing on a couple of key measures in each policy grouping. Whether we like it or not, Boris won with one simple message - "Get Brexit done" - you couldn't get away from that.

It may be that you saw less Labour signs than previously, but having seen the data, it would be factually incorrect to suggest there was in County Durham.

I don't think the majority were 'embarrassed' to vote Labour because of the leader and this can be seen from the number of votes cast, but the reasons above apply as to why this didn't turn into success. I also don't think we'll see much of a shift under Keir Starmer, even once he turns up to work (where is he?)

Oh and its funny that the "magic money tree" has been found as of late.

If it wasn’t for the brexit party at the election, labour would of lost more seats and areas.


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(30 Apr 2020, 7:23 pm)cbma06 wrote If it wasn’t  for the brexit party at the election, labour would of lost more seats and areas.

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Agreed, but the same could be said about the strategic placement of Brexit candidates. Going back on the original decision to stand in all constituencies.

(30 Apr 2020, 7:04 pm)Adrian wrote It wasn't because they liked Boris - it was an election won and lost on Brexit, with unfortunately many of what we'd consider 'core' Labour voters, feeling let down and disenfranchised with the Party's position on Brexit. It was an awful position; cobbled together to try and suit as many different groupings as possible, rather than having a simple (and democratic) policy. The leader not firmly committing one way or the other wasn't helpful either.

It is nonsense that Corbyn went 'all in' on the student vote. That couldn't be further from the truth. There was more in the manifesto for working people and workers rights, which IMO, were some of the best policies we had. A problem was that the policy messages were too complex and too long term, rather than focusing on a couple of key measures in each policy grouping. Whether we like it or not, Boris won with one simple message - "Get Brexit done" - you couldn't get away from that.

It may be that you saw less Labour signs than previously, but having seen the data, it would be factually incorrect to suggest there was in County Durham.

I don't think the majority were 'embarrassed' to vote Labour because of the leader and this can be seen from the number of votes cast, but the reasons above apply as to why this didn't turn into success. I also don't think we'll see much of a shift under Keir Starmer, even once he turns up to work (where is he?)

Oh and its funny that the "magic money tree" has been found as of late.

There's no doubt Brexit definitely played it's part, but I think the reason why they won by such a huge majority is down to Corbyn. People just didn't trust him to run a country.

For me, the issue with Labour's manifesto was that it just seemed like there were too many promises. It didn't matter if it was affordable, it /looked/ far fetched. Like you say, if they had focused on a couple key measures it would have been a lot more palatable.

(30 Apr 2020, 9:42 pm)streetdeckfan wrote For me, the issue with Labour's manifesto was that it just seemed like there were too many promises. It didn't matter if it was affordable, it /looked/ far fetched. Like you say, if they had focused on a couple key measures it would have been a lot more palatable.

I can only speak from my County, but although Corbyn was one of the top 5 negatives brought up during canvassing, more than double that quoted Brexit/our Brexit stance.

The leadership issue is complicated, and as we now know, was setup to fail. See: https://labourlist.org/2020/04/internal-...by-labour/

(30 Apr 2020, 10:26 pm)Adrian wrote I can only speak from my County, but although Corbyn was one of the top 5 negatives brought up during canvassing, more than double that quoted Brexit/our Brexit stance.

The leadership issue is complicated, and as we now know, was setup to fail. See: https://labourlist.org/2020/04/internal-...by-labour/

I suppose, either way you look at it there was no conceivable way that Labour could have won the last election. Having said that, I stayed up to watch the results come in and I was genuinely surprised by the amount of seats that the Conservatives took.

I was expecting them to take Bishop Auckland as it was already fairly close, but the likes of NW Durham and Blyth Valley I never would have thought.

Having lived in a Labour area all my life, it always felt pointless voting as it was pretty much guarantee that Labour would win, but the last election has shown that they can't take anything for granted anymore. All that remains to be seen is whether those areas that have turned blue for the first time stay that way, or whether people will go back to Labour now that Brexit has been done

The Liberal Democrats had been due to announce their new leader in July, but then postponed the leadership contest to next year. They have now reconsidered and decided to hold the contest this summer after all. The result is due shortly after August 26th.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52736616

According to the LibDems' website, the idea is to have the new leader in place before the (virtual) party conference in September.

Most likely to stand are Ed Davey, Layla Moran, Wera Hobhouse and potentially Daisy Cooper.

Good news today for the North East and Nissan:

Nissan's UK factory in Sunderland will stay open as the Japanese carmaker carries out a global restructuring amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The carmaker also announced it will close its factory in Barcelona with the loss of about 2,800 jobs, prompting protests at the Spanish plant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52829348


FUNNY, because i thought they were closing because of Brexit according the Labour Mp's??????????????


What's also funny, is that not one of the Labour MP's in the NE has said anything about it staying open

(28 May 2020, 2:56 pm)Michael wrote Good news today for the North East and Nissan:

Nissan's UK factory in Sunderland will stay open as the Japanese carmaker carries out a global restructuring amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The carmaker also announced it will close its factory in Barcelona with the loss of about 2,800 jobs, prompting protests at the Spanish plant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52829348


FUNNY, because i thought they were closing because of Brexit according the Labour Mp's??????????????


What's also funny, is that not one of the Labour MP's in the NE has said anything about it staying open

There was absolutely no way they'd have closed the factory, I think most people saw right through it all, especially considering the amount of leave voters in the area.
I wouldn't be surprised if we saw quite a bit more investment in the plant once we're done with leaving the EU.

I do hope Boris keeps to his word and doesn't extend the transition period like the EU want, the fact that they are so adamant to extend it gives the impression they're desperate

You'll recall that it was Nissan itself that threatened to leave if/when left the EU, if it was in the terms of a *hard (no deal) Brexit*

We haven't even left yet, but the terminology is really important here. This is what Nissan said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin...03721.html

https://inews.co.uk/news/business/nissan...and-506775

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50000530

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(31 May 2020, 4:26 pm)Adrian wrote You'll recall that it was Nissan itself that threatened to leave if/when left the EU, if it was in the terms of a *hard (no deal) Brexit*

We haven't even left yet, but the terminology is really important here. This is what Nissan said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin...03721.html

https://inews.co.uk/news/business/nissan...and-506775

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50000530

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Yet they've confirmed the Sunderland plant will stay open....... job losses may still occur as Nissan are still reducing production, as its in the red for the first time in years.

Don't think they'll leave the UK now, with them shutting the Barcelona plant and the Sunderland plant becoming the main EU producer for cars.