So, will the evening X30 and X70 journeys be run by Riverside? If so, what will the interworking pattern be and what vehicle type will be used?

(06 Jul 2019, 11:56 am)L469 YVK wrote So, will the evening X30 and X70 journeys be run by Riverside? If so, what will the interworking pattern be and what vehicle type will be used?

X30 riverside inter working with 6A, don’t know what type. Dan might answer this on his return from hols.

X70 Consett could be streetdecks or diamond streetlites as it is now. We never get told operational equipment. Again this could be for dan.

I agree with the comments about the dilution of the Xlines services by including the 45/46/47 in them.  Surely to count as an express route it should be limited stop on large sections if not all of the route? The renumbered x45 will still serve all stops between Consett and Metrocentre. On that principle, they could have added the 10 in to Xlines as its basically the same thing. Stop at every stop then non stop from metrocentre to Newcastle.

(07 Jul 2019, 9:56 am)big mac wrote

I agree with the comments about the dilution of the Xlines services by including the 45/46/47 in them.  Surely to count as an express route it should be limited stop on large sections if not all of the route? The renumbered x45 will still serve all stops between Consett and Metrocentre. On that principle, they could have added the 10 in to Xlines as its basically the same thing. Stop at every stop then non stop from metrocentre to Newcastle.

I hate to say it, but for me X-Lines has become GNE's equivalent of Arriva's Max brand. Unnecessarily renumbering services to have the X-prefix, something which has always been used to distinguish an express service, just so they can fit services in with the new 'brand I.D'. From a marketing perspective it is quite a good one, the average passengers get upgraded vehicles and are lured into thinking their bus is quicker, but I think the reality for those a lot more in the know about bus routes and services such as members of this forum is that it seems a little unimaginative, is arguably inapplicable to some of the services, and compared to GNE's previous brand history, is a bit bland. 

In perspective though, the X45/X46 are only 2-5 mins slower than the X70/X71.

I wouldn't exactly say GNE have abused the X-Lines brand the way Arriva have with MAX. Passengers around the Consett and Stanley areas will benefit from better operational efficiency.

Another strange thing is the lack of pattern or logic to the Xlines brand. For example in the last round of changes, the x25 had its "x" prefix removed, even though it still remains an express between Wrekenton and Gateshead.

So on the one hand, they are wanting the "big up" the fact that a short section of route is express ie. The x45, but on the other hand with the x25 (now the 25), they want to keep it a secret.

(07 Jul 2019, 12:05 pm)big mac wrote

Another strange thing is the lack of pattern or logic to the Xlines brand. For example in the last round of changes, the x25 had its "x" prefix removed, even though it still remains an express between Wrekenton and Gateshead.

So on the one hand, they are wanting the "big up" the fact that a short section of route is express ie. The x45, but on the other hand with the x25 (now the 25), they want to keep it a secret.

In perspective though, the X25 isn't really an express as the X21 is far quicker from CLS and the 21 only takes slightly longer as well as being more frequent.

(07 Jul 2019, 12:24 pm)L469 YVK wrote

In perspective though, the X25 isn't really an express as the X21 is far quicker from CLS and the 21 only takes slightly longer as well as being more frequent.

I'd also argue that the X21 isnt that much of an express service either now they've extended it to Tindale. It seems to go round the bloody world. Sure, it's express from Gateshead to CLS, but it's not really that much faster than the 21, and when you consider it's a 2 hour journey end to end, the difference is negligible

(07 Jul 2019, 12:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I'd also argue that the X21 isnt that much of an express service either now they've extended it to Tindale. It seems to go round the bloody world. Sure, it's express from Gateshead to CLS, but it's not really that much faster than the 21, and when you consider it's a 2 hour journey end to end, the difference is negligible

But these are the journey times to / from CLS:

- X21 to Newcastle: 31 mins

- X21 to CLS: 30 mins

- 21 to Newcastle: 46 mins

- 21 to CLS: 42 mins

So there's at least 10 minutes saving if not more. It's like people saying that Arriva's X20 isn't an express as it goes all the way to Alnwick despite saving around 10-15 minutes over the X21 / X22.

Why are you snowflakes complaining about the Red Kites being rebranded to X-Lines because of Go North East making the services non-stop between MetroCentre and Newcastle yet on the flip side your saying the Red Arrows/Castles Express should become X-Lines because of their express nature.

Just to note with the upcoming changes to the Red Kites these services will have a faster journey time point to point than that of the X1/X21 so of course they should fall under X-Lines, In personal opinion I don't see this as brand dilution with Eldon Square becoming a sea of Gold in the coming months, how many services in past carried "Express Link", "Northern Superliner" & "Go Xpress" branding.

If anything for me Go North East are revisiting this type of network branding and it's actually a very clever business strategy on the part of Go North East to promote their express services in order to boost passenger numbers so that less people are taking the car to work etc which is exactly what it's purpose was 15-20 years ago and it worked.

Quite clearly Go North East are investing highly into the network of services which run from Newcastle to Stanley/Consett which many passengers have been calling for since the days in which the services were branded West Durham Swift. A majority of users on here have said on numerous occasions that these services should be invested in on the fleet order predictions thread in the past. Go North East have now done so and you lot still complain.

If you look at the bigger scale of things just look at how much money Go North East have spent since 2013 on the network of services which operate from Stanley/Consett to surrounding areas, quite clearly those previous investments have brought growth over the past 6 years.

Also confirmed from Martijn Gilbert on twitter, that the pictures of the red kite will stop on the X45/X46/X47.

So far they is X line Cherry/black and White/Green and White and now red kite

(07 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm)Malarkey wrote

Why are you snowflakes complaining about the Red Kites being rebranded to X-Lines because of Go North East making the services non-stop between MetroCentre and Newcastle yet on the flip side your saying the Red Arrows/Castles Express should become X-Lines because of their express nature.

Just to note with the upcoming changes to the Red Kites these services will have a faster journey time point to point than that of the X1/X21 so of course they should fall under X-Lines, In personal opinion I don't see this as brand dilution with Eldon Square becoming a sea of Gold in the coming months, how many services in past carried "Express Link", "Northern Superliner" & "Go Xpress" branding.

If anything for me Go North East are revisiting this type of network branding and it's actually a very clever business strategy on the part of Go North East to promote their express services in order to boost passenger numbers so that less people are taking the car to work etc which is exactly what it's purpose was 15-20 years ago and it worked.

Quite clearly Go North East are investing highly into the network of services which run from Newcastle to Stanley/Consett which many passengers have been calling for since the days in which the services were branded West Durham Swift. A majority of users on here have said on numerous occasions that these services should be invested in on the fleet order predictions thread in the past. Go North East have now done so and you lot still complain.

If you look at the bigger scale of things just look at how much money Go North East have spent since 2013 on the network of services which operate from Stanley/Consett to surrounding areas, quite clearly those previous investments have brought growth over the past 6 years.

Couldn't agree more! Its nice to see the area getting new buses and advertising them.

Go North Easts only competition is the car in these areas. I live in Consett, and work in Durham/Newcastle and drive. Majority of the the week I drive, but maybe once or twice a week I have to take the bus, using the main services from Consett. The investment and changes are needed!

My only disagreement, and from a personal point of view, I do think removing the 45/46 from the estate's around Consett would be beneficial to the 'Main Route' and using the Venture services as a connection similar to how the current 30/30A works with services at Stanley. I know GNE will have taken data from these services before implementing any changes & from experience they do pick passengers up on these estates, why wouldn't they? but I would argue making the route even quicker, whilst still running along main roads and the main destination wouldn't have a negative effect on passenger numbers, with a good Venture service connecting at points and ensuring the customer isn't paying more. If anything it may encourage patronage along the route for other customers.

Would these estates lose out? Maybe, good links with Venture services would prevent it and keep journey times the same as they are.

Would the route be quicker and fit more with the promotion of an 'Express'? Yes

There are loads of pros & cons to doing this, like any decision that is made by any company you could argue all day.

(07 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm)Malarkey wrote

Why are you snowflakes complaining about the Red Kites being rebranded to X-Lines because of Go North East making the services non-stop between MetroCentre and Newcastle yet on the flip side your saying the Red Arrows/Castles Express should become X-Lines because of their express nature.

Just to note with the upcoming changes to the Red Kites these services will have a faster journey time point to point than that of the X1/X21 so of course they should fall under X-Lines, In personal opinion I don't see this as brand dilution with Eldon Square becoming a sea of Gold in the coming months, how many services in past carried "Express Link", "Northern Superliner" & "Go Xpress" branding.

 

My issue is that they've literally changed nothing about the 45/46/47 other than change the name. Sure it's now none stop between Metrocentre and Newcastle, but it might as well have been already, in all the times I've used them, I've rarely seen anyone get on or off between them.

And I actually don't think the X21 should fall under X-Lines at all, as I don't see it as an express service. Yes, between Newcastle and Durham it is, but the rest of the route it isn't. In my eyes at least, for a service to be branded as express, there has to be a slow alternative, and since the X21 is the only GNE service that goes to Bishop, it's not.

(07 Jul 2019, 4:21 pm)Michael wrote Also confirmed from Martijn Gilbert on twitter, that the pictures of the red kite will stop on the X45/X46/X47.

As long as they ditch the eyes on the front, they can do what the want!

(07 Jul 2019, 4:41 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

 

My issue is that they've literally changed nothing about the 45/46/47 other than change the name. Sure it's now none stop between Metrocentre and Newcastle, but it might as well have been already, in all the times I've used them, I've rarely seen anyone get on or off between them.

And I actually don't think the X21 should fall under X-Lines at all, as I don't see it as an express service. Yes, between Newcastle and Durham it is, but the rest of the route it isn't. In my eyes at least, for a service to be branded as express, there has to be a slow alternative, and since the X21 is the only GNE service that goes to Bishop, it's not.

But the X21 is still an express even from Bishop Auckland as Bishop Auckland uses to only get the slower 21 or 724 service.

(07 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm)Malarkey wrote

If anything for me Go North East are revisiting this type of network branding and it's actually a very clever business strategy on the part of Go North East to promote their express services in order to boost passenger numbers so that less people are taking the car to work etc which is exactly what it's purpose was 15-20 years ago and it worked.

So what was their reason for dropping it?  :-s

(07 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm)Malarkey wrote

Why are you snowflakes complaining about the Red Kites being rebranded to X-Lines because of Go North East making the services non-stop between MetroCentre and Newcastle yet on the flip side your saying the Red Arrows/Castles Express should become X-Lines because of their express nature.

Just to note with the upcoming changes to the Red Kites these services will have a faster journey time point to point than that of the X1/X21 so of course they should fall under X-Lines, In personal opinion I don't see this as brand dilution with Eldon Square becoming a sea of Gold in the coming months, how many services in past carried "Express Link", "Northern Superliner" & "Go Xpress" branding.

If anything for me Go North East are revisiting this type of network branding and it's actually a very clever business strategy on the part of Go North East to promote their express services in order to boost passenger numbers so that less people are taking the car to work etc which is exactly what it's purpose was 15-20 years ago and it worked.

Quite clearly Go North East are investing highly into the network of services which run from Newcastle to Stanley/Consett which many passengers have been calling for since the days in which the services were branded West Durham Swift. A majority of users on here have said on numerous occasions that these services should be invested in on the fleet order predictions thread in the past. Go North East have now done so and you lot still complain.

If you look at the bigger scale of things just look at how much money Go North East have spent since 2013 on the network of services which operate from Stanley/Consett to surrounding areas, quite clearly those previous investments have brought growth over the past 6 years.

Services through Stanley are certainly well used on a Sunday, when we
often come back from the Metrocentre via Stanley because it takes no
longer than via Gateshead and it's a much more scenic route.

---

(07 Jul 2019, 4:41 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

 

My issue is that they've literally changed nothing about the 45/46/47 other than change the name. Sure it's now none stop between Metrocentre and Newcastle, but it might as well have been already, in all the times I've used them, I've rarely seen anyone get on or off between them.

And I actually don't think the X21 should fall under X-Lines at all, as I don't see it as an express service. Yes, between Newcastle and Durham it is, but the rest of the route it isn't. In my eyes at least, for a service to be branded as express, there has to be a slow alternative, and since the X21 is the only GNE service that goes to Bishop, it's not.

The X21 still manages to be a little faster than the Arriva 6, during the week, as it's not snarled up on South Road and Church street and picking up dozens of students who can't be arsed to walk half a mile.

(07 Jul 2019, 8:26 pm)BusLoverMum wrote

Services through Stanley are certainly well used on a Sunday, when we
often come back from the Metrocentre via Stanley because it takes no
longer than via Gateshead and it's a much more scenic route.

I much prefer taking the 'scenic route' wherever possible, mostly because they're usually less busy and I don't like people!

(07 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm)Malarkey wrote

Why are you snowflakes complaining about the Red Kites being rebranded to X-Lines because of Go North East making the services non-stop between MetroCentre and Newcastle yet on the flip side your saying the Red Arrows/Castles Express should become X-Lines because of their express nature.

Just to note with the upcoming changes to the Red Kites these services will have a faster journey time point to point than that of the X1/X21 so of course they should fall under X-Lines, In personal opinion I don't see this as brand dilution with Eldon Square becoming a sea of Gold in the coming months, how many services in past carried "Express Link", "Northern Superliner" & "Go Xpress" branding.

If anything for me Go North East are revisiting this type of network branding and it's actually a very clever business strategy on the part of Go North East to promote their express services in order to boost passenger numbers so that less people are taking the car to work etc which is exactly what it's purpose was 15-20 years ago and it worked.

Quite clearly Go North East are investing highly into the network of services which run from Newcastle to Stanley/Consett which many passengers have been calling for since the days in which the services were branded West Durham Swift. A majority of users on here have said on numerous occasions that these services should be invested in on the fleet order predictions thread in the past. Go North East have now done so and you lot still complain.

If you look at the bigger scale of things just look at how much money Go North East have spent since 2013 on the network of services which operate from Stanley/Consett to surrounding areas, quite clearly those previous investments have brought growth over the past 6 years.

Customers ain't daft. Anyone drawn to the service, under the impression it is fast and express, will be left disappointed when they find out its not.

Even though the X1 operates as an express between the Galleries and Newcastle, it's often no quicker than a 4 and a metro.

Regardless of any measures to stop/not stop, it's the existing road infrastructure that is often the ultimate deciding factor.

Fancy livery and X prefix or not.

Is there any clue yet as to what the new daytime interworking patterns of the X30/X31, X45/X46/X47 and X70/X71 will be??

(07 Jul 2019, 9:48 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Customers ain't daft. Anyone drawn to the service, under the impression it is fast and express, will be left disappointed when they find out its not.

Even though the X1 operates as an express between the Galleries and Newcastle, it's often no quicker than a 4 and a metro.

Regardless of any measures to stop/not stop, it's the existing road infrastructure that is often the ultimate deciding factor.

Fancy livery and X prefix or not.

Congestion, and the management thereof is the problem in hand.

1) Our roads are poorly planned, especially bus lanes. The few we have, they either have bottleneck blind joining junctions (eg bottom of lobley hill), filled to the brim with cyclists so renders them useless (eg durham road-harlow green) or so short, pathetic and end up merging with cars every few meters (bensham bank).

2) It's a waste of everybody's money and time to develop these 'solutions', when they offer no benefit except to the white paint and signage budget.

3) Simply put, the only express service I can think of - that is a quicker version of a normal route is the X122, where there's minimal congestion along the route until you hit hexham.

4) If we weren't negotiating traffic lights with no priority and bus lanes that are redundant (...and more painful to use than the normal road), then this would create huge opportunities for the industry.

It's great we're having these new look buses, and I believe it vastly improves how buses can be seen, but it's not going to work any magic tricks until the infrastructure takes on funding and a competent planning team - but neither seems likely for now.

(07 Jul 2019, 10:01 pm)peter wrote

Is there any clue yet as to what the new daytime interworking patterns of the X30/X31, X45/X46/X47 and X70/X71 will be??

This appeared a few pages back, and is the main reason for the Red Kite renumbering as far as I'm concerned:

X30 on its own

X31 interwork with X45/X46

X70/X71 interwork with X47

https://northeastbuses.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?tid=1832&pid=230968#pid230968

- for some reason link doesn't want to take you to the post I'm referring to, so I've attached a screenshot of it instead.

(07 Jul 2019, 10:06 pm)Jamie M wrote Congestion, and the management thereof is the problem in hand.

1) Our roads are poorly planned, especially bus lanes. The few we have, they either have bottleneck blind joining junctions (eg bottom of lobley hill), filled to the brim with cyclists so renders them useless (eg durham road-harlow green) or so short, pathetic and end up merging with cars every few meters (bensham bank).

2) It's a waste of everybody's money and time to develop these 'solutions', when they offer no benefit except to the white paint and signage budget.

3) Simply put, the only express service I can think of - that is a quicker version of a normal route is the X122, where there's minimal congestion along the route until you hit hexham.

4) If we weren't negotiating traffic lights with no priority and bus lanes that are redundant (...and more painful to use than the normal road), then this would create huge opportunities for the industry.

It's great we're having these new look buses, and I believe it vastly improves how buses can be seen, but it's not going to work any magic tricks until the infrastructure takes on funding and a competent planning team - but neither seems likely for now.

I feel like the bus lanes were added purely to say they have them, or it was some scheme to get extra funding from the government for 'saving the environment'.

I wouldn't say our roads are necessarily poorly planned, its just our road network was designed for less traffic than we have now, and any 'improvements' have either made no difference or have made things worse!

(07 Jul 2019, 8:18 pm)ne14ne1 wrote

So what was their reason for dropping it?  :-s

I would imagine as with any company a change of leadership at the top comes with a change of vision and difference of opinion regardless of whether people agree or disagree, quite clearly in 2006 when route branding was introduced a lot of services were merged together creating one core route opening up new quick links for passengers while other links were lost has had an impact on grown for the company over the last 13 years.

I'm sure you will heard of the saying "If something isn't broke don't fix it", well I would say in 2006 everything got ripped to shreds and a new era begun under whoever was the MD at the time and with the upcoming services the current MD I feel clearly shares a similar vision to those that come before him, a bit old school shall we say rolling the clock back almost 20 years and reusing an old business model with some tweaks and adaptations to make his own vision successful in the present day.

(07 Jul 2019, 10:06 pm)Jamie M wrote Congestion, and the management thereof is the problem in hand.

1) Our roads are poorly planned, especially bus lanes. The few we have, they either have bottleneck blind joining junctions (eg bottom of lobley hill), filled to the brim with cyclists so renders them useless (eg durham road-harlow green) or so short, pathetic and end up merging with cars every few meters (bensham bank).

2) It's a waste of everybody's money and time to develop these 'solutions', when they offer no benefit except to the white paint and signage budget.

3) Simply put, the only express service I can think of - that is a quicker version of a normal route is the X122, where there's minimal congestion along the route until you hit hexham.

4) If we weren't negotiating traffic lights with no priority and bus lanes that are redundant (...and more painful to use than the normal road), then this would create huge opportunities for the industry.

It's great we're having these new look buses, and I believe it vastly improves how buses can be seen, but it's not going to work any magic tricks until the infrastructure takes on funding and a competent planning team - but neither seems likely for now.

Durham Road through Low Fell was designed in such a way, that from the mid 80's onwards, it was only going to suit pedestrians and local traffic.

The removal of footbridges and installation of traffic lights every few yards, was a determined way to discouraging traffic from the area.

The recent installation of speed humps, is just painful.

It does nothing to make me want to use the bus (express or not) and I can't be the only one.

In the past, you had longer distance services from say Co Durham, which operated on a limited stop basis once they got in to T&W.

Since then, it seems that a number of these routes have had an x pre-fix added and they now call anywhere any everywhere.

Going from Birtley to Newcastle back in the day, you had the limited stop services or the local services, that stopped everywhere.

The X1 (or X5 as it was known), was limited stop south of the Galleries too. It didn't offer the painful stop/start service around the coalfields, that it does now.

I do think there needs to be some balance, offering passengers an alternative, particularly when travelling a distance.

The X21 did offer some alternative over the 21, but seeing as it now serves Low Fell, the only major difference between the two, is Birtley.

(08 Jul 2019, 10:30 am)Andreos1 wrote

Durham Road through Low Fell was designed in such a way, that from the mid 80's onwards, it was only going to suit pedestrians and local traffic.

The removal of footbridges and installation of traffic lights every few yards, was a determined way to discouraging traffic from the area.

The recent installation of speed humps, is just painful.

It does nothing to make me want to use the bus (express or not) and I can't be the only one.

In the past, you had longer distance services from say Co Durham, which operated on a limited stop basis once they got in to T&W.

Since then, it seems that a number of these routes have had an x pre-fix added and they now call anywhere any everywhere.

Going from Birtley to Newcastle back in the day, you had the limited stop services or the local services, that stopped everywhere.

The X1 (or X5 as it was known), was limited stop south of the Galleries too. It didn't offer the painful stop/start service around the coalfields, that it does now.

I do think there needs to be some balance, offering passengers an alternative, particularly when travelling a distance.

The X21 did offer some alternative over the 21, but seeing as it now serves Low Fell, the only major difference between the two, is Birtley.

The X5 wasn't as frequent, though, with the X1 appearing to be a merger of that and the 194(?) from Washington to Easington Lane.

(08 Jul 2019, 10:34 am)BusLoverMum wrote

The X5 wasn't as frequent, though, with the X1 appearing to be a merger of that and the 194(?) from Washington to Easington Lane.

Yeah, from Shiney to Easington Lane (via Herrington) , you had the hourly 164, the 3 times an hour 194 and the half hourly (limited stop) X5.

The X5 and X6 (that went along the A183 to Sunderland) provided fast links between Shiney and the Galleries.

Between the Galleries and Newcastle, you had (all half hourly) the X4 and X5.

You had others come and go, such as the X2, X15 and X94 - but those two combined to give a frequency not too different to now.

Add in the other services and the frequency was probably greater then, than now.

The X21 did offer some alternative over the 21, but seeing as it now serves Low Fell, the only major difference between the two, is Birtley.

[/quote

Even though it serves low fell it is only one stop. Still a lot quicker than the 21 which is stop/start every five seconds along Durham Road.

I'd probably say it started to change around 2003

Has owt been mentioned anywhere about the westbound road closure at the A183/Bournmoor?

Saw a sign earlier, stating its going to be closed for 10 weeks. Obviously this will affect a few services and a few stops are going to be missed out.

Checked out the DCC website and it's on there too

http://www.durham.gov.uk/roadworks

(08 Jul 2019, 10:54 am)big mac wrote

Even though it serves low fell it is only one stop. Still a lot quicker than the 21 which is stop/start every five seconds along Durham Road.

To be fair though, it's hardly free flowing along there, even if it's only stopping once.

Chances are, it gets stuck behind a stopping service or at one of the many red lights.