(04 Aug 2019, 10:47 am)Andreos1 wrote

X10 broadcasting that the next stop is Testo's when leaving Dalton Park.

Not sure how many complaints there will be this weekend (or in the past or future).

Appreciate the road closure over an entire weekend isn't a normal occurrence, but there's many a time Testo's is missed out due to issues on the A19.

It still doesn't make it right that an organisation the size of GNE can't reflect, use initiative or common sense to make adaptations to the NSA.

I'm a big advocate of listening and using customer feedback, but it can't just be one way. Surely there has to be some common sense and self analysis used internally in situations like this?

Largely agree with you - and the A/V system on buses has a lot of potential, but as has been identified on this forum many times recently, a number of services allocated buses with an operational system, aren't working at the moment. If they aren't working, I'm doubtful there's the time to focus on diversions at this moment in time; however, I am aware that work is progressing to allow remote access to GNE's Service Delivery Centre to make announcements on the bus via the radio system to provide information about diversions etc.

I travelled on a number of Lothian bus services yesterday - the buses were fully equipped with an A/V system, but on one journey the route was diverted and the system did not reflect this, and on another journey the route was regulated and curtailed short, and the announcements were turned off completely. I dare say this is an industry-wide issue, not just Go North East.

My only other comment would be to ask where do you draw the line? When the X9 and X10 services are diverted via the "other" route, announcements are programmed, but what happens if Stockton High Street is ever omitted due to a road closure? Should this instance be programmed too? Even if they were, would the drivers use the correct destination code to reflect this variant to the route?

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(04 Aug 2019, 10:53 am)Dan wrote Agree - the system has a lot of potential, but as has been identified on this forum many times recently, a number of services allocated buses with an operational system, aren't working at the moment.

If they aren't working, I'm doubtful there's the time to focus on diversions at this moment in time.

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So what are the options?

Invest in more staff and allow them to make changes, updates or fixes. These staff can be contracted on short-term/fixed term contracts if required and technology is allowed to fulfil its potential.

Keep as it is and spread staff so thinly, that customers don't benefit from the technology, which the company has invested time and money in to.

(04 Aug 2019, 10:59 am)Andreos1 wrote

So what are the options?

Invest in more staff and allow them to make changes, updates or fixes. These staff can be contracted on short-term/fixed term contracts if required and technology is allowed to fulfil its potential.

Keep as it is and spread staff so thinly, that customers don't benefit from the technology, which the company has invested time and money in to.

OP updated with additional comments.

Not sure how easy it would be to hire staff on a short-term basis to complete a skilled job which may not be particularly easy to pick up? Who, or what, would fund or subsidise the additional costs incurred by the operator?

As I say, where do you draw the line when it comes to diversions? At least Go North East are looking to combat this issue via radio comms from the Service Delivery Centre - not sure what any other operators are doing.

How easy would it be for the London iBus system to be rolled out across every operators' fleet in the UK? What sort of cost implication would there be?

As I say, it's an industry-wide issue, but I don't think there's an industry-wide fix.

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(04 Aug 2019, 11:13 am)Dan wrote OP updated with additional comments.

Not sure how easy it would be to hire staff on a short-term basis to complete a skilled job which may not be particularly easy to pick up? Who, or what, would fund or subsidise the additional costs incurred by the operator?

As I say, where do you draw the line when it comes to diversions? At least Go North East are looking to combat this issue via radio comms from the Service Delivery Centre - not sure what any other operators are doing.

How easy would it be for the London iBus system to be rolled out across every operators' fleet in the UK? What sort of cost implication would there be?

As I say, it's an industry-wide issue, but I don't think there's an industry-wide fix.

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I agree that the issue isn't unique to GNE, but I'm sure GNE would want to lead the way and set a benchmark with regional operators, rather than tag along with them.

However, the example comparing Stockton High St and Testo's is a moot point.

The impact of a closure of Stockton High Street on a customer will be significantly smaller to that of a customer wanting to board or alight at Testo's during a road closure.

An alternative on Stockton High St will inconvenience a customer a few hundred yards and a few minutes. A closure of Testo's means (depending on the direction affected), that nearest alternative could be Heworth or Peterlee, with the obvious implications and inconveniences.

Marketing and fancy liveries are picked up by the operator. Why not this?

I know which one would benefit the customer the most.

(04 Aug 2019, 11:30 am)Andreos1 wrote

I agree that the issue isn't unique to GNE, but I'm sure GNE would want to lead the way and set a benchmark with regional operators, rather than tag along with them.

However, the example comparing Stockton High St and Testo's is a moot point.

The impact of a closure of Stockton High Street on a customer will be significantly smaller to that of a customer wanting to board or alight at Testo's during a road closure.

An alternative on Stockton High St will inconvenience a customer a few hundred yards and a few minutes. A closure of Testo's means (depending on the direction affected), that nearest alternative could be Heworth or Peterlee, with the obvious implications and inconveniences.

Marketing and fancy liveries are picked up by the operator. Why not this?

I know which one would benefit the customer the most.

I'd like to think that the work with the radio system and centralised Service Delivery Centre is an example of Go North East attempting to lead the way to combat this issue, no? What are other operators doing? Arriva North East's buses don't even have radio systems, never mind a centralised control room that can regulate services and assist.

It was a moot point indeed, but a fair question. I wonder how many passengers board or alight at Stockton High Street vs Testo's Roundabout?

The fact Testo's is, as you say, regularly omitted, makes me think that there can't be many passengers who use these stops (otherwise why would the company so regularly miss them out?) Depending on how you measure the impact to customers, if far more customers use Stockton High Street, it could be deemed that diversions not being announced for this stop could have a greater impact.

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(04 Aug 2019, 11:42 am)Dan wrote I'd like to think that the work with the radio system and centralised Service Delivery Centre is an example of Go North East attempting to lead the way to combat this issue, no? What are other operators doing? Arriva North East's buses don't even have radio systems, never mind a centralised control room that can regulate services and assist.

It was a moot point indeed, but a fair question. I wonder how many passengers board or alight at Stockton High Street vs Testo's Roundabout?

The fact Testo's is, as you say, regularly omitted, makes me think that there can't be many passengers who use these stops (otherwise why would the company so regularly miss them out?) Depending on how you measure the impact to customers, if far more customers use Stockton High Street, it could be deemed that diversions not being announced for this stop could have a greater impact.

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I used to be regular user of X9/X10 at Testos. Daily Monday to Friday.   I always got the 0558 X9 to Middlesbrough and when diverted and omitted Testo, how on earth do you guys at GNE think someone can get to Heworth for that time of the morning without incurring taxi costs etc. I lost count of the number of times I contacted GNE and we discussed alternative diversions will still observed Boldon near to Testos all to no avail. GNE were not willing to listen to suggestions and when I contacted Martijn he referred me back to customer services.

Those if you on here who don't use Testos roundabout. Try it for a month and see how much patience you have at the end.

Hence I learned to drive. Passed my test, and avoid Testos like the plague. But not all of us have this luxury now. There are still a lot of customers having to put up with this.

Mind you if we lived elsewhere there would be shuttle buses provided as in most other diversions but no we aren't entitled to them either.

(04 Aug 2019, 11:42 am)Dan wrote I'd like to think that the work with the radio system and centralised Service Delivery Centre is an example of Go North East attempting to lead the way to combat this issue, no? What are other operators doing? Arriva North East's buses don't even have radio systems, never mind a centralised control room that can regulate services and assist.

It was a moot point indeed, but a fair question. I wonder how many passengers board or alight at Stockton High Street vs Testo's Roundabout?

The fact Testo's is, as you say, regularly omitted, makes me think that there can't be many passengers who use these stops (otherwise why would the company so regularly miss them out?) Depending on how you measure the impact to customers, if far more customers use Stockton High Street, it could be deemed that diversions not being announced for this stop could have a greater impact.

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It's all fine and well having radio control contact a driver, but if that information isn't shared with the passengers - it becomes an exercise in pointlessness.

One person inconvenienced because Testo's isn't served and they can no longer get to work or home from work; or 21 dropped off round the corner, just off Stockton High Street. Hmm...

(04 Aug 2019, 12:01 pm)Andreos1 wrote

It's all fine and well having radio control contact a driver, but if that information isn't shared with the passengers - it becomes an exercise in pointlessness.

One person inconvenienced because Testo's isn't served and they can no longer get to work or home from work; or 21 dropped off round the corner, just off Stockton High Street. Hmm...

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The Service Delivery Centre have had contact to drivers for many years now, that isn't something new.

The intention is that the radio controller would be able to make an announcement on the bus to passengers, in addition to the driver, linking to the audio-visual announcement system on the bus.

Work is underway. Trials are to take place by the end of the year. That is what Go North East are doing to combat the issue we are discussing, that is how they are trying to lead the way... Not an "exercise in pointlessness"!

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(04 Aug 2019, 12:09 pm)Dan wrote Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. The Service Delivery Centre have had contact to drivers for many years now, that isn't something new.

The intention is that the radio controller would be able to make an announcement on the bus to passengers, in addition to the driver, linking to the audio-visual announcement system on the bus.

Work is underway. Trials are to take place by the end of the year. That is what Go North East are doing to combat the issue we are discussing, that is how they are trying to lead the way... Not an "exercise in pointlessness"!

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Yeah, I know it's not new.

I remember when the first radios were rolled out fleet wide 20plus years back.

In the time since, sometimes the driver shouts back that there's going to be a little diversion, sometimes there isn't (cue typical example of old biddies whispering that the driver must have got lost/must be new/or there's been a crash somewhere and one brave soul venturing to the front to ask what's going on).

I'm pleased to see there will be amendments to that system and hopefully customers will see improvements.

I hope it coincidences with changes to the NSA's, so that in the case of a road closure (planned or otherwise), customers aren't given conflicting pieces of information regarding the next stop.

I haven't been on a Houghton bound 4 since the long-term closure of the A183 westbound at Bournmoor.

I'd have hoped the NSA's would have been amended to reflect that Boundary Houses wasn't the next stop beyond Shiney Row, that an approx 3mile section was being omitted and the next scheduled stopping point is Fatherly Terrace in Chilton Moor.

Ditto, I havent been on a Chester bound 78, which omits a handful of stops between Boundary Houses and Woodstone Village. Again, I'd hope changes were made to the NSA's on that service too.

(04 Aug 2019, 12:21 pm)Andreos1 wrote

Yeah, I know it's not new.

I remember when the first radios were rolled out fleet wide 20plus years back.

In the time since, sometimes the driver shouts back that there's going to be a little diversion, sometimes there isn't (cue typical example of old biddies whispering that the driver must have got lost/must be new/or there's been a crash somewhere and one brave soul venturing to the front to ask what's going on).

I'm pleased to see there will be amendments to that system and hopefully customers will see improvements.

I hope it coincidences with changes to the NSA's, so that in the case of a road closure (planned or otherwise), customers aren't given conflicting pieces of information regarding the next stop.

I haven't been on a Houghton bound 4 since the long-term closure of the A183 westbound at Bournmoor.

I'd have hoped the NSA's would have been amended to reflect that Boundary Houses wasn't the next stop beyond Shiney Row, that an approx 3mile section was being omitted and the next scheduled stopping point is Fatherly Terrace in Chilton Moor.

Ditto, I havent been on a Chester bound 78, which omits a handful of stops between Boundary Houses and Woodstone Village. Again, I'd hope changes were made to the NSA's on that service too.

Again, I go back to my original question. For all of the operators now equipping their buses with Next Stop Announcements, who funds the additional resource required to update the announcements for the short-term closures and/or diversions in place?

Right or wrong; until the systems become less clunky, I don't think you'll ever get the announcements to reflect the correct route all of the time. I'd doubt many, if any at all, operators could resource it currently (I used Lothian as my example previously as they've really upped their game for providing this feature, and are definitely leading the way in the entire industry in my opinion, currently, yet they face the same challenges and seemingly haven't overcome them).

If operators don't have the resource, one option could be to disable the announcements to prevent incorrect information being given to passengers. This isn't ideal either though, is it? I suspect the current situ means that they're right the majority of the time, for the majority of stops, benefiting the majority of passengers.

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(04 Aug 2019, 12:56 pm)Dan wrote Again, I go back to my original question. For all of the operators now equipping their buses with Next Stop Announcements, who funds the additional resource required to update the announcements for the short-term closures and/or diversions in place?

Right or wrong; until the systems become less clunky, I don't think you'll ever get the announcements to reflect the correct route all of the time. I'd doubt many, if any at all, operators could resource it currently (I used Lothian as my example previously as they've really upped their game for providing this feature, and are definitely leading the way in the entire industry in my opinion, currently, yet they face the same challenges and seemingly haven't overcome them).

If operators don't have the resource, one option could be to disable the announcements to prevent incorrect information being given to passengers. This isn't ideal either though, is it? I suspect the current situ means that they're right the majority of the time, for the majority of stops, benefiting the majority of passengers.

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I mean, you could always give the driver a microphone and tell them to do the NSAs

(04 Aug 2019, 1:00 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I mean, you could always give the driver a microphone and tell them to do the NSAs

All jokes aside I think that's what we're possibly forgetting in all of this.

Whilst there's a system on board buses to assist passengers, if ever the information given by this system is inaccurate, there is always a customer-facing person at the front of the bus, who should be able to assist with any enquiries...

In my Lothian example from yesterday, the driver came upstairs to advise us that we'd arrived at the point in the route he had been regulated from, and we'd have to alight and wait for the next bus, if we wished to continue our journey.

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(04 Aug 2019, 12:56 pm)Dan wrote Again,  I go back to my original question. For all of the operators now equipping their buses with Next Stop Announcements, who funds the additional resource required to update the announcements for the short-term closures and/or diversions in place?  Right or wrong; until the systems become less clunky, I don't think you'll ever get the announcements to reflect the correct route all of the time. I'd doubt many, if any at all, operators could resource it currently (I used Lothian as my example previously as they've really upped their game for providing this feature, and are definitely leading the way in the entire industry in my opinion, currently, yet they face the same challenges and seemingly haven't overcome them).

If operators don't have the resource, one option could be to disable the announcements to prevent incorrect information being given to passengers. This isn't ideal either though, is it? I suspect the current situ means that they're right the majority of the time, for the majority of stops, benefiting the majority of passengers.

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The operators themselves?

I made the point previously that they're happy to paint the vehicles funky colours.

Why not pay for something which actually benefits the customers, on an ongoing basis.

As for 'benefitting the majority of passengers'. Accessible vehicles don't really benefit the majority of passengers. They make it accessible to the minority.

It goes without saying, that it needs to work for all passengers, not just the majority.

(04 Aug 2019, 1:07 pm)Andreos1 wrote

The operators themselves?

I made the point previously that they're happy to paint the vehicles funky colours.

Why not pay for something which actually benefits the customers, on an ongoing basis.

As for 'benefitting the majority of passengers'. Accessible vehicles don't really benefit the majority of passengers. They make it accessible to the minority.

It goes without saying, that it needs to work for all passengers, not just the majority.

Wouldn't that then lead to some operators doing it, and others not? One being more customer-focused, the other less so (just how, using your example, some operators will paint buses more frequently than others)?

I don't think the answer is as simple as you suggest. Alas, here in the North East (until later this year anyway) Stagecoach have still not equipped a single one of their buses with this system (whereas a fair proportion of the Arriva and Go North East fleets are).

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(04 Aug 2019, 11:56 am)ifm001 wrote

I used to be regular user of X9/X10 at Testos. Daily Monday to Friday.   I always got the 0558 X9 to Middlesbrough and when diverted and omitted Testo, how on earth do you guys at GNE think someone can get to Heworth for that time of the morning without incurring taxi costs etc. I lost count of the number of times I contacted GNE and we discussed alternative diversions will still observed Boldon near to Testos all to no avail. GNE were not willing to listen to suggestions and when I contacted Martijn he referred me back to customer services.

Those if you on here who don't use Testos roundabout. Try it for a month and see how much patience you have at the end.

Hence I learned to drive. Passed my test, and avoid Testos like the plague. But not all of us have this luxury now. There are still a lot of customers having to put up with this.

Mind you if we lived elsewhere there would be shuttle buses provided as in most other diversions but no we aren't entitled to them either.

I think you make some good points there, which really emphasise the importance of the customer being a priority.

Whilst previous comments have focused on, on-bus technology; your points have reiterated the fact that operational requirements often come first.

You were a minority.

You now don't bother.

The operator have now lost a passenger, due to the inconveniences and problems you faced.

---

(04 Aug 2019, 1:13 pm)Dan wrote Wouldn't that then lead to some operators doing it, and others not? One being more customer-focused, the other less so (just how, using your example, some operators will paint buses more frequently than others)?

I don't think the answer is as simple as you suggest. Alas, here in the North East (until later this year anyway) Stagecoach have still not equipped a single one of their buses with this system (whereas a fair proportion of the Arriva and Go North East fleets are).

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Isn't that what makes the businesses stand out above others?

The customer focused ones spend their time (appearing to anyway), making the customer the priority. Making the customer feel important.

That tends to be why those businesses succeed.

Wants, needs and expectations.

When those expecations are exceeded, then the business knows it is on the right track.

I've recently been working with a multinational organisation and developing their customer service offer.

It was an eye-opener!

When needs aren't met (stops missed, customers not informed of changes/given conflicting information etc), then the loyalty, trust and whatever else isn't achieved.

(04 Aug 2019, 1:13 pm)Dan wrote Wouldn't that then lead to some operators doing it, and others not? One being more customer-focused, the other less so (just how, using your example, some operators will paint buses more frequently than others)?

I don't think the answer is as simple as you suggest. Alas, here in the North East (until later this year anyway) Stagecoach have still not equipped a single one of their buses with this system (whereas a fair proportion of the Arriva and Go North East fleets are).

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I think until things like this start becoming a requirement there are always going to be some companies that cheap out and don't bother installing it.
I can't imagine it being that difficult or expensive to make a simple NSA system for local operators that only have a few routes.

(04 Aug 2019, 1:25 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I think until things like this start becoming a requirement there are always going to be some companies that cheap out and don't bother installing it.
I can't imagine it being that difficult or expensive to make a simple NSA system for local operators that only have a few routes.

A lot of what we've discussed today was covered under the 'accessible information' consultation in relation to the Bus Services Act 2017. There's a fair chance that these solutions will need to be (at least partially) funded by Government.

More info: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bus-services-act-2017-accessible-information/bus-services-act-2017-accessible-information-html

(04 Aug 2019, 1:43 pm)Dan wrote

A lot of what we've discussed today was covered under the 'accessible information' consultation in relation to the Bus Services Act 2017. There's a fair chance that these solutions will need to be (at least partially) funded by Government.

More info: 

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bus-services-act-2017-accessible-information/bus-services-act-2017-accessible-information-html

I can understand retrofits and installs for independents being funded by the government, but I'd imagine for the likes of Go Ahead, Arriva and Stagecoach, the cost to implement NSA on new vehicles would be negligible when you consider the amount that they're spending on the vehicles in the first place.

On the FAB 56, first time in ages... still has the "Hylton College" as part of the stop announcement system.

Hylton College has been shut for ages now.. will it be removed?

(04 Aug 2019, 4:02 pm)Michael wrote On the FAB 56, first time in ages... still has the "Hylton College" as part of the stop announcement system.

Hylton College has been shut for ages now.. will it be removed?

Maybe next month.

(04 Aug 2019, 4:13 pm)Dan wrote

Maybe next month.

Is that when they come back from a refurb?

(04 Aug 2019, 4:16 pm)Michael wrote Is that when they come back from a refurb? " alt="" title="">

The Fab56 B9s aren't being refurbished.

(04 Aug 2019, 4:17 pm)Dan wrote

The Fab56 B9s aren't being refurbished.

Shame, thought they would of....

(04 Aug 2019, 4:23 pm)Michael wrote Shame, thought they would of....

From what I've seen the 56s are looking a bit more tired inside compared to others of a similar age

(04 Aug 2019, 5:07 pm)streetdeckfan wrote

From what I've seen the 56s are looking a bit more tired inside compared to others of a similar age

Ye, i noticed that today, wonder if that means new buses are on order in the 2020/2021 financial year?... we can hope

(04 Aug 2019, 5:20 pm)Michael wrote Ye, i noticed that today, wonder if that means new buses are on order in the 2020/2021 financial year?... we can hope " alt="" title="">

I doubt it like, they might just do an Arriva and spray a bit of Febreeze on it and call it a new bus ?

(04 Aug 2019, 4:17 pm)Dan wrote

The Fab56 B9s aren't being refurbished.

Guess the same goes for the Tyne Valley Tens as well then


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(04 Aug 2019, 4:17 pm)Dan wrote

The Fab56 B9s aren't being refurbished.

Any plans in place for repainting them given they are now nearly 6 years old?

Also any plans for repaints for the Drifter Streetlites and Connections 4 Mercs?

(04 Aug 2019, 6:49 pm)Malarkey wrote

Any plans in place for repainting them given they are now nearly 6 years old?

Also any plans for repaints for the Drifter Streetlites and Connections 4 Mercs?

Hope so, the orange looks horrendous now, if the Drifter Streetlites get done, i think we will see the brand dropped, its a pointless brand.

(04 Aug 2019, 6:56 pm)Michael wrote Hope so, the orange looks horrendous now, if the Drifter Streetlites get done, i think we will see the brand dropped, its a pointless brand.

I was at the match yesterday so got the 56 from Gateshead and back and the paint is very faded now, an internal spruce up is needed.

I am surprised they are not going for refurbishment to be honest.