(28 Dec 2019, 9:53 pm)Jimmi wrote Single journeys are far more attractive, I have less desires to go to Sunderland since Arriva curtailed the X21 at Peterlee as can't be chewed on changing in either Durham or Peterlee to get there.

Another example is Transdev are withdrawing their service X41 between Accrington & Manchester (via Ramsbottom) in January and they are really trying to push the passengers along that route to use alternative routes that involve connections and try as they might people are not having it, even though from Accrington you get 464 to Rawtenstall then X43 to reach Manchester changing at the newly opened Rawtenstall Bus Station with both services operating on a 15 minute frequency, people would still prefer a slightly less frequent direct service without having to change.

Aye. The only reason we're happy to catch the X30 on a Sunday is because the same vehicle runs on to Durham. Has to be nice weather to contemplate a journey via Consett, though!

I'm the type of person that prefers to take the 'scenic' route to places, so I'll purposely go the long way round and have multiple connections.
When I'm on my way back down, I'll often get the X30 to Stanley, 16 to Durham, then catch the X21 to Bishop rather than getting the X30 to Newcastle (or 49 to Gateshead, depending if I'm craving Cheese Straws or not) then getting the X21 to Bishop.

I find myself trapped in the house on a Sunday because I'm too lazy to walk the 2 miles to Bishop Bus Station, and I'm too cheap to pay the £1.40 to Arriva to get there!

(28 Dec 2019, 10:28 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I'm the type of person that prefers to take the 'scenic' route to places, so I'll purposely go the long way round and have multiple connections.
When I'm on my way back down, I'll often get the X30 to Stanley, 16 to Durham, then catch the X21 to Bishop rather than getting the X30 to Newcastle (or 49 to Gateshead, depending if I'm craving Cheese Straws or not) then getting the X21 to Bishop.

I find myself trapped in the house on a Sunday because I'm too lazy to walk the 2 miles to Bishop Bus Station, and I'm too cheap to pay the £1.40 to Arriva to get there!

Amount of times you've complained about expresses not being expresses, this has surprised me

(29 Dec 2019, 12:46 am)JP6004 wrote Amount of times you've complained about expresses not being expresses, this has surprised me

I've said many times in the past that I like taking the scenic route, most of the time it's to avoid other people, like taking the 1A from Gateshead to Metrocentre instead of the X66

The thing is it though for me it actually takes the same amount of time to go via Stanley than it does to go to Gateshead/Newcastle and take the X21, including the time waiting for changes. If we take out the time waiting for changes, it's actually 10 minutes faster going via Stanley.

I'm right to complain about some express services not being expresses, because they're bloody well not!

If we look at the X30, the it takes about 10 minutes longer than if you took the car. I'd say that's pretty express for a bus service.

Now look at the X21, if you wanted to drive from Eldon Square to Tindale Tesco, it would take 50 minutes (according to Google Maps anyway following basically the same route, it can be done quicker if you 'know the roads'), the X21 takes pretty much spot on 2 hours. That's more than double the time it takes in the car. The issue is that half of the route isn't actually express!

This also goes back to my other point about express services, you shouldn't be allowed to call it an express service unless there's a slower service available. And with the X21 there isn't! You could argue that it's an express 21, but then what about the Durham to Bishop part of the route. For the most part it follows the 6 (except the 6 goes via the university, and with traffic is actually faster), stopping at every stop. 

I have no issue with the route of the X21, only with the branding of it as express. I've said in the past that it should be renamed, and then if they want they can introduce an actual express service to run along side it.

(29 Dec 2019, 1:20 am)streetdeckfan wrote I've said many times in the past that I like taking the scenic route, most of the time it's to avoid other people, like taking the 1A from Gateshead to Metrocentre instead of the X66

The thing is it though for me it actually takes the same amount of time to go via Stanley than it does to go to Gateshead/Newcastle and take the X21, including the time waiting for changes. If we take out the time waiting for changes, it's actually 10 minutes faster going via Stanley.

I'm right to complain about some express services not being expresses, because they're bloody well not!

If we look at the X30, the it takes about 10 minutes longer than if you took the car. I'd say that's pretty express for a bus service.

Now look at the X21, if you wanted to drive from Eldon Square to Tindale Tesco, it would take 50 minutes (according to Google Maps anyway following basically the same route, it can be done quicker if you 'know the roads'), the X21 takes pretty much spot on 2 hours. That's more than double the time it takes in the car. The issue is that half of the route isn't actually express!

This also goes back to my other point about express services, you shouldn't be allowed to call it an express service unless there's a slower service available. And with the X21 there isn't! You could argue that it's an express 21, but then what about the Durham to Bishop part of the route. For the most part it follows the 6 (except the 6 goes via the university, and with traffic is actually faster), stopping at every stop. 

I have no issue with the route of the X21, only with the branding of it as express. I've said in the past that it should be renamed, and then if they want they can introduce an actual express service to run along side it.

I seriously don’t know anyone who would take the longest way around to get between point A and point B whilst there is a direct service, unless somewhat detached from reality.

Now seriously you’ve said time and again your point on the whole express branding, most of us on here I’m sure don’t agree with your point.

(29 Dec 2019, 8:14 am)Stanleyone wrote I seriously don’t know anyone who would take the longest way around to get between point A and point B whilst there is a direct service, unless somewhat detached from reality.

Now seriously you’ve said time and again your point on the whole express branding, most of us on here I’m sure don’t agree with your point.

As I mentioned before, on a Sunday, it can be quicker to do Metrocentre to Durham via Stanley. From Newcastle, it's a little slower but we still get home the same time as if we'd waited another 10 minutes for a 21. We often drive that way, from the Metrocentre, if the Western bypass is heavy and slow, as it's genuinely scenic. Unlike the 1A through some of the ugliest parts of Gateshead, which is just plain lengthy.

(28 Dec 2019, 9:48 pm)BusLoverMum wrote "No demand" is a vicious circle, isn't it? I think ANE 22 is a good example of that. Used to be unreliable and infrequent and people didn't trust it enough to use it. Then they made it twice as frequent, put newer vehicles on it and rolled it out properly instead of halfassedly on a sunday and suddenly it became busy quite a lot. Similarly, GNE has grown that Durham-Newcastle corridor on a Sunday and the buses are just as busy, presumably because more people find them an attractive and reliable option (though the Chester-Durham journey breaks down a bit with 3 of the 4 journeys an hour (21, X21, 50) all running within a few minutes of each other.)

I think that 22 example is a good one. 
Having lived on its route when it ran under a previous guise, I remember what it was like. 
Someone, somewhere saw the potential, took a gamble and did something about it.

Looking at services across the region now as a whole, isn't too different to pre-86. There are the slight variations to routes - but the majority of corridors are the same.
Less the evening and Sunday services, less the fast 'expresses' and less the attractive fares.
Then take in to account the mass consolidation that took place in 2006 and an ingrained culture within commercial depts and you can see why passengers become frustrated - voting with their feet when they have that option.

I was reading an interesting article on twitter earlier, regarding management within tocs and subsequent problems. Layers have been cut back on and the experience gained in BR days lost (and not replaced).
I wonder what the impact would be within bus ops if this happened? Better services or worse?

With the Ferry replacement service finished, has any of the Scania L94's been withdrawn?, as i know  5230-32 are just float vehicles at Deptford?

Just because, according to bus times. 5230-5232 were all on the 55 yesterday, was just wondering if any others were withdrawn?

(29 Dec 2019, 1:15 pm)Michael wrote With the Ferry replacement service finished, has any of the Scania L94's been withdrawn?, as i know  5230-32 are just float vehicles at Deptford?

Just because, according to bus times. 5230-5232 were all on the 55 yesterday, was just wondering if any others were withdrawn?

As 6337 wasn’t able to be put through MOT test (allowing 5485 to transfer to Deptford), 5230 is now part of the main fleet allocation at Deptford, displacing 8299 to Riverside, allowing 5220 to be withdrawn. 5230 can become a float vehicle again (or withdrawn) once 5485 transfers in from Consett.

5225 has also now been withdrawn following the transfer of 6931 from Consett (Riverside were one double-deck short).

5231/32 remain at Deptford as float vehicles - one covering for a coach which is VOR, the other as a repaint float (the final Wear Xpress Citaros will be repainted in fleet livery over the next few weeks).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(29 Dec 2019, 1:22 pm)Dan wrote As 6337 wasn’t able to be put through MOT test (allowing 5485 to transfer to Deptford), 5230 is now part of the main fleet allocation at Deptford, displacing 8299 to Riverside, allowing 5220 to be withdrawn. 5230 can become a float vehicle again (or withdrawn) once 5485 transfers in from Consett.

5225 has also now been withdrawn following the transfer of 6931 from Consett (Riverside were one double-deck short).

5231/32 remain at Deptford as float vehicles - one covering for a coach which is VOR, the other as a repaint float (the final Wear Xpress Citaros will be repainted in fleet livery over the next few weeks).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Dan, those Scania's are going down fast at Riverside now.



About time the remaining Wear Xpress Citaros will be repainted, i take it after that the FAB 56 B9's will start to go in for a repaint?

(29 Dec 2019, 1:22 pm)Dan wrote As 6337 wasn’t able to be put through MOT test (allowing 5485 to transfer to Deptford), 5230 is now part of the main fleet allocation at Deptford, displacing 8299 to Riverside, allowing 5220 to be withdrawn. 5230 can become a float vehicle again (or withdrawn) once 5485 transfers in from Consett.

5225 has also now been withdrawn following the transfer of 6931 from Consett (Riverside were one double-deck short).

5231/32 remain at Deptford as float vehicles - one covering for a coach which is VOR, the other as a repaint float (the final Wear Xpress Citaros will be repainted in fleet livery over the next few weeks).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Those E400s seem to be causing a whole heap of trouble! What is the issue with it now?

(29 Dec 2019, 1:30 pm)Michael wrote Thanks Dan, those Scania's are going down fast at Riverside now.

About time the remaining Wear Xpress Citaros will be repainted, i take it after that the FAB 56 B9's will start to go in for a repaint?

Hopefully, although 5275-82 also need to be painted now, too, due to the 6 and 12 services interworking from the end of January, and they'd be the priority now. Unlikely many of those will be done before 26 January!

Has 5265 been in service since it transferred to Chester le Street? Seems to have been VOR for a while.

(29 Dec 2019, 1:41 pm)Dan wrote Hopefully, although 5275-82 also need to be painted now, too, due to the 6 and 12 services interworking from the end of January, and they'd be the priority now. Unlikely many of those will be done before 26 January!

Ahh ye, that's true, could they not do both at the same time?

Will the Fab 56 B9s just get a repaint or will they get a full refurb like their Cobalt & Coast counterparts?

(29 Dec 2019, 3:56 pm)L469 YVK wrote Will the Fab 56 B9s just get a repaint or will they get a full refurb like their Cobalt & Coast counterparts?

They're *not* getting a full refurb to the same spec as the Cobalt & Coasts

(29 Dec 2019, 4:00 pm)streetdeckfan wrote They're getting a full refurb to the same spec as the Cobalt & Coasts

No they're not.

(29 Dec 2019, 4:04 pm)Dan wrote No they're not.

I stand corrected!

(29 Dec 2019, 1:53 pm)Dans_bus_photos wrote Has 5265 been in service since it transferred to Chester le Street? Seems to have been VOR for a while.

It's been off service with engine failure since 28 May - used in service at Chester-le-Street from 19 May until this point - so yes, albeit briefly!

Believe it's now nearing completion (with an engine donated from one of the ex-Metrobus OmniCitys acquired earlier this year), but 5234 (withdrawn/awaiting transfer to East Yorkshire) and 5241 (Riverside) have been off service with similar engine issues since 2 October and 8 October respectively.

When is 6334 entering service on X9/X10

(29 Dec 2019, 8:24 pm)Citaro5338 wrote When is 6334 entering service on X9/X10

Still a fair amount of work that needs to be done to it - so not for a while yet.

(29 Dec 2019, 8:25 pm)Dan wrote Still a fair amount of work that needs to be done to it - so not for a while yet.

What work needs doing to it?

(29 Dec 2019, 8:32 pm)Michael wrote What work needs doing to it?

It still needs to be re-certified (seating layout amended at Saltmeadows), cab door modifications completed, seat-back USB charging points installed, speed limiter increased, a deep clean, safety inspection, and then all defects cleared.

(29 Dec 2019, 8:34 pm)Dan wrote It still needs to be re-certified (seating layout amended at Saltmeadows), cab door modifications completed, seat-back USB charging points installed, speed limiter increased, a deep clean, safety inspection, and then all defects cleared.

That's a lot of work, least it'll get done properly, instead of rushed in to service!

With the seating layout changes, how different will be when its done? (so from EY to GNE?)

(30 Dec 2019, 3:14 pm)Michael wrote That's a lot of work, least it'll get done properly, instead of rushed in to service!

With the seating layout changes, how different will be when its done? (so from EY to GNE?)

Possibly the removal of the buggy bay and installation of normal seating?

(30 Dec 2019, 3:37 pm)JP6004 wrote Possibly the removal of the buggy bay and installation of normal seating?

I thought GNE preferred having separate buggy and wheelchair bays

(30 Dec 2019, 3:14 pm)Michael wrote That's a lot of work, least it'll get done properly, instead of rushed in to service!

With the seating layout changes, how different will be when its done? (so from EY to GNE?)

All that'll be changing in terms of seating is replacing the seats - both B5s have non-standard seats so they're being replaced with Civics. Have seen it posted elsewhere that 5229 has had its Civics removed to be fitted to one of the B5s.

(30 Dec 2019, 3:37 pm)JP6004 wrote Possibly the removal of the buggy bay and installation of normal seating?

(30 Dec 2019, 4:02 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I thought GNE preferred having separate buggy and wheelchair bays

Both are ex-Demos and therefore don't have a separate buggy bay anyway.

(30 Dec 2019, 4:11 pm)Kuyoyo wrote All that'll be changing in terms of seating is replacing the seats - both B5s have non-standard seats so they're being replaced with Civics. Have seen it posted elsewhere that 5229 has had its Civics removed to be fitted to one of the B5s.



Both are ex-Demos and therefore don't have a separate buggy bay anyway.

I assume the Civics will be reupholstered in the new moquette/leather, which might be why it's taken so long?

I wonder if while they're at it they'll install tables so they somewhat match the existing B5s

(30 Dec 2019, 4:29 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I assume the Civics will be reupholstered in the new moquette/leather, which might be why it's taken so long?

I wonder if while they're at it they'll install tables so they somewhat match the existing B5s

But then they wont match the leather on the other B5s....gotta be consistent

(30 Dec 2019, 4:32 pm)JP6004 wrote But then they wont match the leather on the other B5s....gotta be consistent ?

They can't even get replacement seats on the same bus to match, so at this point I'm past caring about consistency!