Read an article in the Sunday Mirror yesterday about further possible cuts to the BSOG which will be tied into the next budget announcement.

Also, not sure if anyone has ever seen this next website.
It contains details of operators who have used the grant to subsidise the cost of claiming smartcard, automatic vehicle locations or low carbon emission buses.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...incentives

Details of this years BSOG to both operators, local authorities and PTE's

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...march-2015

It's a while since this thread was updated and seeing as it's my latest pet peeve, I thought I'd dig out the latest BSOG rates and enhancements. 

It also ties nicely in with the prices thread and discussion which appears to have been ongoing over the course of today. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...-operators

Here's the latest figures. 
The current rate of BSOG is:

Fuel type Unit payable BSOG rate from 1 January 2014
Diesel Pence per litre 34.57
Biodiesel Pence per litre 34.57
Bioethanol Pence per litre 34.57
Biofuels – used cooking oil Pence per litre 34.57
Unleaded petrol Pence per litre 32.66
Natural gas used as road fuel Pence per kilogram 18.88
Road fuel gas other than natural gas Pence per kilogram 18.88

You can see it hasn't changed much over the last few years.

One point to note and one which is hidden at the bottom of the link/page, is the following:
You can draw your own conclusions, particularly when one 'premium' service (usually operated by the newer, more fuel efficient vehicles), charges higher fares than a service operated by older, more polluting, less efficient vehicles - despite the uplift and enhancements quoted below. 

Operators of vehicles that hold a low carbon emission certificate may be eligible for an additional 6p per kilometre.
A low carbon emission vehicle must have 22 or more seats and be able to achieve a 30% reduction in its greenhouse gas emissions compared to an average Euro 3 diesel bus of the same passenger capacity.
Operators may receive an 8% increase in their BSOG rate if vehicles have operational smartcard systems installed on their vehicles, and a further 2% increase if vehicles are fitted with automatic vehicle location equipment.

 

(14 Apr 2020, 8:52 pm)Andreos1 wrote It's a while since this thread was updated and seeing as it's my latest pet peeve, I thought I'd dig out the latest BSOG rates and enhancements. 

It also ties nicely in with the prices thread and discussion which appears to have been ongoing over the course of today. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicatio...-operators

Here's the latest figures. 
The current rate of BSOG is:

Fuel type Unit payable BSOG rate from 1 January 2014
Diesel Pence per litre 34.57
Biodiesel Pence per litre 34.57
Bioethanol Pence per litre 34.57
Biofuels – used cooking oil Pence per litre 34.57
Unleaded petrol Pence per litre 32.66
Natural gas used as road fuel Pence per kilogram 18.88
Road fuel gas other than natural gas Pence per kilogram 18.88

You can see it hasn't changed much over the last few years.

One point to note and one which is hidden at the bottom of the link/page, is the following:
You can draw your own conclusions, particularly when one 'premium' service (usually operated by the newer, more fuel efficient vehicles), charges higher fares than a service operated by older, more polluting, less efficient vehicles - despite the uplift and enhancements quoted below. 

 

To be fair though and I'm one who hates giving money away for free it's just a rebate for the fuel duty more so than a free grant with a fancy name. They're still paying roughly 20% of the fuel duty that's due and with the governments efforts to move people away from cars to buses and reducing emissions it's not exactly the worst thing, at the end of the day it's a bit unfair to charge them the same rate as a car especially when other industries such as airlines don't pay any fuel duty at all and trains use red diesel which is a lower rate. It'll be the same reason why it hasn't increased since Fuel Duty hasn't neither.

To the QE stuff I can't imagine that's the reason - it's probably a legacy thing in place to try and spread loads out more to let people get on who are going further afield. You have to remember until not too long a go the X1 and 56 were both ran by singles which were often packed at peaks. The last thing you want to do is have a bus full of people going to the QE and leaving people going to Concord or wherever behind when those people could use a different bus with plenty seats or it's just a pricing error.

(14 Apr 2020, 10:15 pm)Storx wrote To be fair though and I'm one who hates giving money away for free it's just a rebate for the fuel duty more so than a free grant with a fancy name. They're still paying roughly 20% of the fuel duty that's due and with the governments efforts to move people away from cars to buses and reducing emissions it's not exactly the worst thing, at the end of the day it's a bit unfair to charge them the same rate as a car especially when other industries such as airlines don't pay any fuel duty at all and trains use red diesel which is a lower rate. It'll be the same reason why it hasn't increased since Fuel Duty hasn't neither.

To the QE stuff I can't imagine that's the reason - it's probably a legacy thing in place to try and spread loads out more to let people get on who are going further afield. You have to remember until not too long a go the X1 and 56 were both ran by singles which were often packed at peaks. The last thing you want to do is have a bus full of people going to the QE and leaving people going to Concord or wherever behind when those people could use a different bus with plenty seats or it's just a pricing error.

There's a couple of bits in here I wanted to respond to, so hopefully it comes across OK. 

You mention the X1 and 56 and single decker ops. Both were double deckers for a significant period prior. The X5 operated as a double decker for years prior to the 2006 changes, although on a less frequent basis.
Ditto the 56 when it terminated at Spring Well Est, before it merged with the dd operated 187 and 188.

Although I didn't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of whether or not operators should be getting freebies, I think you make an interesting point regarding the rebates. However, they're getting the fuel at rock bottom prices already. The bulk buying in advance sees to that. Add on the fuel element of the BSOG and they're paying a lot less p/l than everyone else does at Morrisons.
The bit that annoys me the most (and I've pointed out elsewhere), is that these operators don't want to be regulated again. They don't want local or national interference, but are more than happy receiving financial support as and when it suits.
I appreciate they're merely making use of the money available under its current guise, but there is no end of hypocrisy in doing so. 

They get the financial help with the fuel costs and they get financial help with AVL and smartcard technology.
They then get additional financial help and a 10% uplift on the existing financial help, as a result of utilising the financial help already received.
But don't want regulating.

(15 Apr 2020, 10:18 am)Andreos1 wrote There's a couple of bits in here I wanted to respond to, so hopefully it comes across OK. 

You mention the X1 and 56 and single decker ops. Both were double deckers for a significant period prior. The X5 operated as a double decker for years prior to the 2006 changes, although on a less frequent basis.
Ditto the 56 when it terminated at Spring Well Est, before it merged with the dd operated 187 and 188.

Although I didn't want to get in to the rights and wrongs of whether or not operators should be getting freebies, I think you make an interesting point regarding the rebates. However, they're getting the fuel at rock bottom prices already. The bulk buying in advance sees to that. Add on the fuel element of the BSOG and they're paying a lot less p/l than everyone else does at Morrisons.
The bit that annoys me the most (and I've pointed out elsewhere), is that these operators don't want to be regulated again. They don't want local or national interference, but are more than happy receiving financial support as and when it suits.
I appreciate they're merely making use of the money available under its current guise, but there is no end of hypocrisy in doing so. 

They get the financial help with the fuel costs and they get financial help with AVL and smartcard technology.
They then get additional financial help and a 10% uplift on the existing financial help, as a result of utilising the financial help already received.
But don't want regulating.

Yeah it's totally fine at the end of the day it's a discussion board which some seem to forget.

Honestly, I'm too young to remember the services before 2006 as I'm not from the area but I know that happens quite often which is fair enough thing to do in terms of pushing people on other services (if it is that anyway). I wonder what would happen though if you bought a return fare on say the 25 which is cheaper then try to return on the 56 coming back which in theory shouldn't be valid but at the end of the day your travelling between the same two points.

See personally I don't mind the rebate for buses as it gives a push to get people out of cars and only balances it with other forms of public transport - whether any of them should get it is a debate but it's only fair especially in areas where there's competition trains vs bus. If they didn't do it, then no doubt the money would be just getting thrown into subsidies instead which affects other public services especially with the councils having no money as it is so to me it's not the worst thing plus the price of a bus fare is way over the price of fuel for the majority of journeys anyway. The thing I hate though is when we get these green funds for things like along the Coast Road on the 308 and then as soon as the subsidy is over their shipped off somewhere else because of a new Euro regulation elsewhere.