(14 Oct 2020, 3:49 pm)ne14ne1 wrote Hopefully not as that would mean the Xlines livery wouldn't stand out against the rest.

Course it would still stand out. The gold always stands out against other liveries at main interchanges

(14 Oct 2020, 3:39 pm)L469 YVK wrote As it stands, GoNe as of Jan 2020 has reduce the Coast Road & 57 PVR count combined by 16%. If they dropped the 309 & 310 to every 30 minutes with the 311 running every 15 minutes, that would reduce the PVR by a further 11% which I doubt they would do for a negligible saving.

Arriva on the other hand if they reduced the 306 & 308 to every 20 minutes would reduce the headcount of full size vehicles (single or double deck) by nearly 28%. With the 51/51A (minibuses) also taken into account and an extension of the 51A to Marden & Whitley Bay, that saving would still almost be 20%.

GoNE are in the stronger position and if Arriva reduced frequency, they'd likely have to pull the X6 unless other misc workings could be pulled in to cover it. I tried timetabling a reduced 306/308 with the X6 and it's almost impossible. Most of the connections onto the X6 are covered by GoNE too.

The Coast Road corridor has been dog p!ssing territory for years now. A quick look of any zonal structure will add weight to the theory and that competition drives down prices.
However, if the market isn't there (metro, bus, car, taxi is a big divider), then you're going to see the empty buses and reductions to frequencies. Regardless of how attractive ticketing may be. It just isn't sustainable.

I'd also argue that the creation of the business parks on or near the A19 corridor has had an impact, particularly as businesses move there away from the city centre.

Something has to give and I can't see it being the attractive prices. I can see it being frequency or vehicle size though. 
The first operator to flinch and increase their ticket prices, will be the one who loses out imo.

(14 Oct 2020, 5:03 pm)Andreos1 wrote The Coast Road corridor has been dog p!ssing territory for years now. A quick look of any zonal structure will add weight to the theory and that competition drives down prices.
However, if the market isn't there (metro, bus, car, taxi is a big divider), then you're going to see the empty buses and reductions to frequencies. Regardless of how attractive ticketing may be. It just isn't sustainable.

I'd also argue that the creation of the business parks on or near the A19 corridor has had an impact, particularly as businesses move there away from the city centre.

Something has to give and I can't see it being the attractive prices. I can see it being frequency or vehicle size though. 
The first operator to flinch and increase their ticket prices, will be the one who loses out imo.

Agreed.

At the moment there's very little loyalty from passengers on the Coast Road corridor. A lot of them are discretionary users who get on the first bus that turns up, but this is likely because each of the operators have very similarly priced (cheap!) ticketing.

The moment those prices are increased and a divide created, will be when passengers begin to show more loyalty towards the cheaper operator, regardless of when or how frequently they run.

(14 Oct 2020, 5:36 pm)Dan wrote Agreed.

At the moment there's very little loyalty from passengers on the Coast Road corridor. A lot of them are discretionary users who get on the first bus that turns up, but this is likely because each of the operators have very similarly priced (cheap!) ticketing.

The moment those prices are increased and a divide created, will be when passengers begin to show more loyalty towards the cheaper operator, regardless of when or how frequently they run.

I do think GNE will stand better in the long term. Arriva however have a very big strong hold though between Lynn Road and Station Road including the common section with the 306.

If they were to downsize and reduce both to every 20 minutes including pulling the 306 out of Battle Hill for reliability (already well served by GoNE), they wouldn't be losing out massively as their capacity would be better matched to demand and in practice, passengers on their unique section with no competition would actually get an increased level of service with buses running at an even 10 minute frequency and not 5/15 gaps like now. So in perespective, the levels of service wouldn't be too dissimilar as the 308 bears the brunt of most loads towards Newcastle anyways at the moment with the 306 behind not really picking up.

(14 Oct 2020, 5:36 pm)Dan wrote Agreed.

At the moment there's very little loyalty from passengers on the Coast Road corridor. A lot of them are discretionary users who get on the first bus that turns up, but this is likely because each of the operators have very similarly priced (cheap!) ticketing.

The moment those prices are increased and a divide created, will be when passengers begin to show more loyalty towards the cheaper operator, regardless of when or how frequently they run.

Most be great to have competition and decent fares!

(14 Oct 2020, 3:39 pm)L469 YVK wrote As it stands, GoNe as of Jan 2020 has reduce the Coast Road & 57 PVR count combined by 16%. If they dropped the 309 & 310 to every 30 minutes with the 311 running every 15 minutes, that would reduce the PVR by a further 11% which I doubt they would do for a negligible saving.

Arriva on the other hand if they reduced the 306 & 308 to every 20 minutes would reduce the headcount of full size vehicles (single or double deck) by nearly 28%. With the 51/51A (minibuses) also taken into account and an extension of the 51A to Marden & Whitley Bay, that saving would still almost be 20%.

GoNE are in the stronger position and if Arriva reduced frequency, they'd likely have to pull the X6 unless other misc workings could be pulled in to cover it. I tried timetabling a reduced 306/308 with the X6 and it's almost impossible. Most of the connections onto the X6 are covered by GoNE too.

You keep going on about too many buses along the Coast Road, there's one bus that stands out here that you keep missing and that's the 311. It's utterly pointless serves nothing new and just duplicates everything else but now your suggesting that's every 15 minutes and the long distance 309/310 get cut down to every 30 minutes. That's the bus that needs to go if anything; send the 310 around Hadrian Park and just be done with it.

Also the X9 failed, the 44 failed why on earth you'd want the 51A going to Marden again when it's not purpose of the 306 through there is a mystery. Now that's a waste of a bus.

I would remove the 306 from Battle Hill though just not to disagree with everything but the 309 along Station Road is a similar problem, one every 20 minute service inbetween a 7.5 minute bus service which leaves a messy 5, 6, 9 service in Battle Hill. The 22X is another service which is pointless and that really does carry fresh air and the 10 minute 22 and 15 minute 1 which aren't all needed neither going into Cobalt.

Surprised you don't mention the other side which is genuinely a problem though with 9 buses an hour between South Beach and Seaton Sluice and even 8 if you dropped the 308 down to every 20 minutes.

Personally if you could control both an ideal service would be:

306: Same (Don't serve Battle Hill)
308: 30 Mins, Blyth to Newcastle; 30 Mins, Whitley to Newcastle
309: 30 Mins, Blyth to Newcastle
310: 30 Mins, Whitley to Newcastle via Monkseaton - old 75/76/85/86 (whichever one it was) then same as 309 from Foxhunters.
311: 30 Mins, North Shields to Newcastle - current 310 via Mullen Road
312: 30 Mins, North Shields to Newcastle - current 310 to Meadowell, High Flatworth, 310, Hadrian Park, current 310 via Mullen Road.

The 312 is about creating new links in particular Tyne Trading Estate which doesn't have a bus to Newcastle and new link from Meadowell, Battle Hill and Mullen Road to Silverlink and the 310 restores a better service to Monkseaton.

306 / 308 - Arriva so nothing.
309 / 310 - Cobalt Brand.
311 / 312 - Nothing or Centurion.

I haven't done the maths but I think the PVR would be roughly the same overall for GNE and slightly less for Arriva and it stops this stupid Cobalt and Coast crap brand.

Noticed the AD122 is also running through winter too - NEW weekend only Winter timetable will run from 7 November to 20 December 2020, and 13 February to 28 March 2021

(14 Oct 2020, 6:54 pm)Storx wrote You keep going on about too many buses along the Coast Road, there's one bus that stands out here that you keep missing and that's the 311. It's utterly pointless serves nothing new and just duplicates everything else but now your suggesting that's every 15 minutes and the long distance 309/310 get cut down to every 30 minutes. That's the bus that needs to go if anything; send the 310 around Hadrian Park and just be done with it.

If the 310 was sent through Hadrian Park with 309 & 310 on a 15 minute frequency, that would increase the PVR to 18x (1 more than the original 309 & 310 PVR of 17x. 311 is a fine route and far from a waste of time and in fact, a very innovative idea by GNE compared by previous attempts to sort the problem child out (Hadrian Park) without the need to de-tour the 310.

Also the X9 failed, the 44 failed why on earth you'd want the 51A going to Marden again when it's not purpose of the 306 through there is a mystery. Now that's a waste of a bus.

Purpose since the 44/X9/X6 failed was to try and find a steady replacement. The easiest option was to tag on the 306. An extended 51A would actually be a 'gem' for Arriva as it would likely be subsidised by Nexus if they agreed to replace parts of the 359 with that and the 54 duplicates most of the 359.

I would remove the 306 from Battle Hill though just not to disagree with everything but the 309 along Station Road is a similar problem, one every 20 minute service inbetween a 7.5 minute bus service which leaves a messy 5, 6, 9 service in Battle Hill. The 22X is another service which is pointless and that really does carry fresh air and the 10 minute 22 and 15 minute 1 which aren't all needed neither going into Cobalt.

I think the Sunday 309 could be better spaced out but the actual frequency does it's job quite well in terms of streamlining compared to having the 57 as the 'oddball'. I reckon for Cobalt, GNE will hold the fort until Stagecoach start reducing or withdrawing services from Cobalt. With the rumoured acquisition of Q12 to Quorum by BT/EE, it's likely that both Arriva & Stagecoach will shift focus there.

Surprised you don't mention the other side which is genuinely a problem though with 9 buses an hour between South Beach and Seaton Sluice and even 8 if you dropped the 308 down to every 20 minutes.
Primary purpose of the 308 & 309 is to provide links to North Tyneside so not a big problem and not that the operators would expect to make a fortune on that particular section of route. Arriva do have a good stronghold though in that part regarding Seaton Sluice and South Beach.

L469 YVK wroteYou keep going on about too many buses along the Coast Road, there's one bus that stands out here that you keep missing and that's the 311. It's utterly pointless serves nothing new and just duplicates everything else but now your suggesting that's every 15 minutes and the long distance 309/310 get cut down to every 30 minutes. That's the bus that needs to go if anything; send the 310 around Hadrian Park and just be done with it.

If the 310 was sent through Hadrian Park with 309 & 310 on a 15 minute frequency, that would increase the PVR to 18x (1 more than the original 309 & 310 PVR of 17x. 311 is a fine route and far from a waste of time and in fact, a very innovative idea by GNE compared by previous attempts to sort the problem child out (Hadrian Park) without the need to de-tour the 310.

Also the X9 failed, the 44 failed why on earth you'd want the 51A going to Marden again when it's not purpose of the 306 through there is a mystery. Now that's a waste of a bus.

Purpose since the 44/X9/X6 failed was to try and find a steady replacement. The easiest option was to tag on the 306. An extended 51A would actually be a 'gem' for Arriva as it would likely be subsidised by Nexus if they agreed to replace parts of the 359 with that and the 54 duplicates most of the 359.

I would remove the 306 from Battle Hill though just not to disagree with everything but the 309 along Station Road is a similar problem, one every 20 minute service inbetween a 7.5 minute bus service which leaves a messy 5, 6, 9 service in Battle Hill. The 22X is another service which is pointless and that really does carry fresh air and the 10 minute 22 and 15 minute 1 which aren't all needed neither going into Cobalt.

I think the Sunday 309 could be better spaced out but the actual frequency does it's job quite well in terms of streamlining compared to having the 57 as the 'oddball'. I reckon for Cobalt, GNE will hold the fort until Stagecoach start reducing or withdrawing services from Cobalt. With the rumoured acquisition of Q12 to Quorum by BT/EE, it's likely that both Arriva & Stagecoach will shift focus there.

Surprised you don't mention the other side which is genuinely a problem though with 9 buses an hour between South Beach and Seaton Sluice and even 8 if you dropped the 308 down to every 20 minutes.
Primary purpose of the 308 & 309 is to provide links to North Tyneside so not a big problem and not that the operators would expect to make a fortune on that particular section of route. Arriva do have a good stronghold though in that part regarding Seaton Sluice and South Beach.

The problem is the 311 is just the new problem child. Dan has said, no-one cares about loyality and they get on the first bus and all the buses carry fresh air along the Coast Road. Having a bus that only serves the Coast Road is a problem least with the 306, 308, 309 and 310 you can get fares at the other end. Meadowell to North Shields; Whitley to Blyth etc and create some loyalty there.

The 57 / 58 has been a problem for awhile I won't deny that but now you've just renumbered it the 311 and it's still the same bus. People don't care if it's GNE or Arriva because it's cheaper to buy singles than day tickets. Hadrian Park tbf is a pain in the arse where it is for routing a bus through. I didn't say increase the 309 and 310 upto every 15 minutes fully tho.

For the short 51A I'd send it around the new housing estates in Backworth like the 359 does personally, might be able to pick up a few punters wanting to go to Newcastle. The 306 isn't really a replacement for the X9 though tbf it's more a replacement for the 310 if anything.

Let's see what happens though we might be both right and the 306, 308 and 311 end up being the 3 routes getting cuts.

Do we think from the 31st the latest Xlines routes will start announcing themselves as so?

(14 Oct 2020, 7:54 pm)Storx wrote [/b]

The problem is the 311 is just the new problem child. Dan has said, no-one cares about loyality and they get on the first bus and all the buses carry fresh air along the Coast Road. Having a bus that only serves the Coast Road is a problem least with the 306, 308, 309 and 310 you can get fares at the other end. Meadowell to North Shields; Whitley to Blyth etc and create some loyalty there.

The 57 / 58 has been a problem for awhile I won't deny that but now you've just renumbered it the 311 and it's still the same bus. People don't care if it's GNE or Arriva because it's cheaper to buy singles than day tickets. Hadrian Park tbf is a pain in the arse where it is for routing a bus through. I didn't say increase the 309 and 310 upto every 15 minutes fully tho.

For the short 51A I'd send it around the new housing estates in Backworth like the 359 does personally, might be able to pick up a few punters wanting to go to Newcastle. The 306 isn't really a replacement for the X9 though tbf it's more a replacement for the 310 if anything.

Let's see what happens though we might be both right and the 306, 308 and 311 end up being the 3 routes getting cuts.

The 57 was a problem child but I wouldn't say the 311 is. Only thing I can say is that if the 311 was to be withdrawn and the 309 & 310 ran every 20 mins with 310 through Hadrian Park, that again would only reduce the PVR by 2x vehicles. GNE acted early pre-covid so I reckon they'll just about be fine give or take. Arriva are in a position for numerous reasons that they'll need to streamline and adapt.

(14 Oct 2020, 1:18 pm)JP6004 wrote What is interesting is the like of the 10/21/56 have 3 colour timetables. Other services only have 2 colour. Does this suggest new intercity, non express routes will have 3 colour base livery? Like Xlines but without the gold?

I’m probably branching into streetdeckfan levels of outrage here but...

I really don’t like the Angel branding, I never have. The pink one was a crime against humanity, I kinda got the hybrid one but I think they missed an opportunity with streetdecks to rebrand a bit. The 21 is the original northern route and it’s the only they’d get away with a basic northern brand if the wanted to. People will let X12s, 25s, 28bs and 1s sail by to get an esteemed 21.I preferred the whole 21 24/7 branding which kinda fits in more with this new route focused over random landmarks approach they have.

(14 Oct 2020, 10:41 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m probably branching into streetdeckfan levels of outrage here but...

I really don’t like the Angel branding, I never have. The pink one was a crime against humanity, I kinda got the hybrid one but I think they missed an opportunity with streetdecks to rebrand a bit. The 21 is the original northern route and it’s the only they’d get away with a basic northern brand if the wanted to. People will let X12s, 25s, 28bs and 1s sail by to get an esteemed 21.I preferred the whole 21 24/7 branding which kinda fits in more with this new route focused over random landmarks approach they have.

I agree, never really been a great fan of the Angel branding, however did love the original pink livery. Looked amazing. Hopefully the new design will be a lot nicer.....and not back to the dismal Red Angel.

Yea the 21, 24/7 did do what it says on the tin. However so such a high profile, high frequency route, I dont see that happening, nor would I want it to

(14 Oct 2020, 10:49 pm)JP6004 wrote I agree, never really been a great fan of the Angel branding, however did love the original pink livery. Looked amazing. Hopefully the new design will be a lot nicer.....and not back to the dismal Red Angel.

Yea the 21, 24/7 did do what it says on the tin. However so such a high profile, high frequency route, I dont see that happening, nor would I want it to

The pink was of its time shall we say? Not helped by the disastrous omincity allocation. 

It’s high profile but it’s also probably the only route that doesn’t need advertising. Its on a lucrative corridor, there’s little competition and it links the regions 2 major cities via rich commuter belts, working class heroes and lots of pubs  (sorry Sunderland but well...Sunderland) It’s the ‘hoover’ of buses. I’ve yet to meet anyone who uses it call it the Angel, but you could probably say that for most branded routes.

(14 Oct 2020, 11:02 pm)Ambassador wrote The pink was of its time shall we say? Not helped by the disastrous omincity allocation. 

It’s high profile but it’s also probably the only route that doesn’t need advertising. Its on a lucrative corridor, there’s little competition and it links the regions 2 major cities via rich commuter belts, working class heroes and lots of pubs  (sorry Sunderland but well...Sunderland) It’s the ‘hoover’ of buses. I’ve yet to meet anyone who uses it call it the Angel, but you could probably say that for most branded routes.

I've met a few people who call it the angel as opposed to the 21...young and old. Might be the lower syllable count as opposed to the route number, same as the loop 

(14 Oct 2020, 10:41 pm)Ambassador wrote I’m probably branching into streetdeckfan levels of outrage here but...

What are you insinuating?! 

(14 Oct 2020, 11:02 pm)Ambassador wrote The pink was of its time shall we say? Not helped by the disastrous omincity allocation. 

It’s high profile but it’s also probably the only route that doesn’t need advertising. Its on a lucrative corridor, there’s little competition and it links the regions 2 major cities via rich commuter belts, working class heroes and lots of pubs  (sorry Sunderland but well...Sunderland) It’s the ‘hoover’ of buses. I’ve yet to meet anyone who uses it call it the Angel, but you could probably say that for most branded routes.

Pretty much everyone I know calls it 'The Angel', I can't even remember the last time I heard someone refer to it as the 21!

Personally, I'm 50/50 on the livery. It's eye catching and stands out, but also really doesn't have anything to do with the route other than it goes past. It'd be like naming the 78 'The Penshaw'.

The issue is when they come to replace it, there's nothing much more they can really do with it. It only stands out because there's a massive Angel of the North on the side of it, and with the new policy of not covering windows, we'll just end up with another Cobalt and Coast but green.

Maybe an age thing, I still associate the 21 with Classic Coaches and the 221 with Go Ahead

(14 Oct 2020, 11:21 pm)JP6004 wrote I've met a few people who call it the angel as opposed to the 21...young and old. Might be the lower syllable count as opposed to the route number, same as the loop 

Same, it's so much faster just saying The Angel as opposed to the Twenty One.
Then again, I'm also the sort of person that always referred to the X21 as 'The Castles Express X21 Service to Bishop Auckland' (or Newcastle, depending on what direction I intended on travelling) purely because of the ridiculously long name, to the point where my friend that lives in South Shields started calling it that despite never travelling on it

My mother, who has probably been on 10 buses in the last 20 years only knows them by the colours and brands. She knows that the gold and blue one goes to Bishop, and the Green one goes to Durham. She's turned into a right bus spotter, every time we drive past the X21, even if it's in the distance she points it out!

She also refuses to get an Arriva bus because they're, in her words, 'shitey old buses', to be fair though, her only experience of Arriva has been the X46! When she went to the hospital in Durham, she waited for the Go North East X46 back home (RIP). So now whenever she's getting the train from Durham, she'll just park at mine and get the X21.

I personally refer to the 21 as ‘The Angel’, and the Q1/2/3 as ‘a Quaylink’, as do a few of my friends/relatives/colleagues who are not interested in buses whatsoever, however every other route I’d call by number.

Being a regular Angel 21 commuter pre-COVID, I’d often overhear tourists onboard travelling from central Newcastle out to see Angel of the North, no doubt made easier by the obvious route branding which does what it says on the tin - no argument.
To suggest this route be renamed seems ridiculous to me personally. And calling it something like Northern would only be appreciated a very small percentage (probably a few elderly or some enthusiasts), and to the other 99% it would be meaningless, with many probably preferring the Angel name reinstated.

Having previously worked in a role where we’d often help with local/tourist information, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been able to easily refer people wanting to visit Angel of the North to the Angel 21 bus service, and even more so to the ‘Quaylink’ network for hopping on and off at tourist attractions, landmarks and points of interest around central Newcastle/Gateshead and the Quaysides.

The ‘Quaylink’ name has been known here for years, pre GNE slapping names on routes willy nilly, and I’d argue the name is a brand in itself.
The ‘Q’ for Quaylink symbol was always shown on city centre maps along with the ‘M’ is for Metro symbol, & the National Rail station symbol, almost like Quaylink was its own form of transport. It was certainly a noticeable stand out bus service from the rest when it began.
I reckon a large percentage of people here would know what ‘Quaylink’ is and for that reason I don’t think it should be renamed.
Yes you could say GNE came along and saved it and made it profitable after the original organisations pulled funding from it, but I don’t think they should now rename it. It’s almost been a recent City icon for years, and will only remain a familiar thing to residents & visitors if named Quaylink and kept (mostly) yellow.

One last thing, to see some of you now complaining that any local routes being repainted are just going to be a [insert colour] version of the Cobalt or new Crusader, well isn’t that the whole point of this huge company image transformation? To actually have a design house style again, where there’s a chance these randomly coloured, randomly named buses will actually look like they belong to one identifiable, and hopefully professional looking company.

Did the 44 fail?

As a regular weekend and sometimes weekday user of the service from hazlerigg to Whitley I have to say it used to pick up a fare few passengers at Blacket Street, Haymarket, St Mary's place. Never seemed that busy on the way back but got busy on the Newcastle to Hazlerigg part.

I was told when Arriva/Northumbria decided to scrap the Newcastle to whitley section this was due to timekeeping rather than anything else and they couldn't increase the PVR of the route due to lack of spare buses and drivers!

(15 Oct 2020, 11:19 am)Rob44 wrote Did the 44 fail?

As a regular weekend and sometimes weekday user of the service from hazlerigg to Whitley I have to say it used to pick up a fare few passengers at Blacket Street, Haymarket, St Mary's place. Never seemed that busy on the way back but got busy on the Newcastle to Hazlerigg part.

I was told when Arriva/Northumbria decided to scrap the Newcastle to whitley section this was due to timekeeping rather than anything else and they couldn't increase the PVR of the route due to lack of spare buses and drivers!

I might be wrong here but didn't the Whitley side get replaced with the X8/X9 (one of them) at the same time? I know that used to carry fresh air all the time - never used it before the change though. The other replacing the 355 which eventually became the 51 partly but cut down to hourly for half the route - quite a big step down from the old branded Wright Renowns.

Never remember which one was the X8 and which was the X9.

I'm sure they replaced it with a service... what number it was I couldn't tell you. but i did wonder at the time where they got the buses and the drivers from considering what i was told in my last post?

(15 Oct 2020, 1:57 pm)Rob44 wrote I'm sure they replaced it with a service... what number it was I couldn't tell you. but i did wonder at the time where they got the buses and the drivers from considering what i was told in my last post?

Just had a look as I was curious. Seems that the 44 Whitley Bay to Newcastle was replaced by the X8/X9 but they also replaced the 307, 337 and 335 at the same time so it seems the drivers and buses have come from there and it was subsidised by Cobalt at first.

http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/news/st...eview.html

Can't find any timetables but they seem to be both hourly aswell? but I could be wrong.

The first X8 attempt was the 355
The first X9 attempt i assume was in part the 44
It was the X8/X9 loop,they interworked at Whitley Bay
They then (in part) merged the 56 and X8 which became the X6 but the other parts were the 53A with the 53 going to Whitley Bay (old 343)
Then it became its current format

(15 Oct 2020, 2:56 pm)Storx wrote Just had a look as I was curious. Seems that the 44 Whitley Bay to Newcastle was replaced by the X8/X9 but they also replaced the 307, 337 and 335 at the same time so it seems the drivers and buses have come from there and it was subsidised by Cobalt at first.

http://www.travelnortheast.co.uk/news/st...eview.html

Can't find any timetables but they seem to be both hourly aswell? but I could be wrong.

Sorry to the admins, this is going so off topic (being old services and Arriva based) but to dig further with useful / useless info 

X8 / X9 Timetables
https://web.archive.org/web/201112242120...x?id=10575

Nexus 2011 map showing X8 / X9, don't think the route had changed up to that point
https://web.archive.org/web/201604050716...%20Pro.pdf

Nexus 2008 Map Showing 44
https://web.archive.org/web/200812210931...0guide.pdf

Basically the 44 used to go Non-stop St Marys Place to Willington Square then all stops Norham Road North to Whitley Bay. 
The X9 ran non stop from Sandyford Road / Portland Terrace to High Farm Coast Road / Station Road before working the 337 route to the south end of the Cobalt, doing its own route through the Cobalt before picking up the 44 route in New York

1 thing doing this research has made me remember how superior the old North Tyneside network used to be Pre-Cobalt

(14 Oct 2020, 11:42 pm)Ambassador wrote Maybe an age thing, I still associate the 21 with Classic Coaches and the 221 with Go Ahead

What was the 221? Was it Northern trying to directly compete with Classic when they first introduced the 21?

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(15 Oct 2020, 11:09 pm)anvil1984 wrote Sorry to the admins, this is going so off topic (being old services and Arriva based) but to dig further with useful / useless info 

X8 / X9 Timetables
https://web.archive.org/web/201112242120...x?id=10575

Nexus 2011 map showing X8 / X9, don't think the route had changed up to that point
https://web.archive.org/web/201604050716...%20Pro.pdf

Nexus 2008 Map Showing 44
https://web.archive.org/web/200812210931...0guide.pdf

Basically the 44 used to go Non-stop St Marys Place to Willington Square then all stops Norham Road North to Whitley Bay. 
The  X9 ran non stop from Sandyford Road / Portland Terrace to High Farm Coast Road / Station Road before working the 337 route to the south end of the Cobalt, doing its own route through the Cobalt before picking up the 44 route in New York

1 thing doing this research has made me remember how superior the old North Tyneside network used to be Pre-Cobalt

(16 Oct 2020, 9:38 am)big mac wrote What was the 221? Was it Northern trying to directly compete with Classic when they first introduced the 21?

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I’m sure Northern and United ran the 221 in front of classic 21, can’t remember if it was just between Newcastle and Chester or continued to Durham, I remember United running the 221 with double deckers and northern was using nationals


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(16 Oct 2020, 9:47 am)cbma06 wrote I’m sure Northern and United ran the 221 in front of classic 21, can’t remember if it was just between Newcastle and Chester or continued to Durham, I remember United running the 221 with double deckers and northern was using nationals


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I might be wrong here but did Classic run the 21 to Chester but had a couple an hour that extended to Durham that were numbered the 21A?

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The 44 was a great service. Never used the rubbish that followed it as they took over 20 minutes longer than the 44 to get to Newcastle. Deliberately run down by Arriva with old clapped out rubbish on it including minibuses. X8 waste of space,X9 waste of time,306 don,t even bother as it takes nearly an hour from Marden Estate to Newcastle,use the car instead. A perfect example of how to discourage bus use. Nobody from Marden want's a detour round Battle Hill.