(09 Mar 2021, 5:30 pm)mb134 wrote Yeah there is the 418, but I believe it still uses Solos - not ideal for the loads you'd hope to get (or have the potential to). 

I had thought about running the X15 shorts up, but then you'd miss out on a direct journey from Ashington/Ellington/Lynemouth and some of the caravan parks around there, for the sake of Felton and Shilbottle? If done properly you'd ensure a connection from the X15s onto the Berwick X18s at Alnwick. My initial suggestion was more to target villages and towns up the coast than to target the Newcastle section anyway, so from Ashington north the most you'd be on the bus for would be 2 hours which is similar to the X93. 

I tried to think of a way to find the time to get the X20 suggestion to Bamburgh, I think as you've shown on that link the only way to really do it is miss out Craster, but then that's potentially one of the main places you'd want to send it? By my reckoning you'd need to find approximately 20 minutes, and there's nowhere along the route where you could realistically cut if you're wanting to promote the coast. Even omitting the Craster section would only gain about 14 minutes.

Edit: I do like your way out of Alnwick. I've often thought that with a bit of creative thinking it would be great to find a way to serve the entrance to the Gardens directly and market the hell out of it. Folk going in cars seeing a double decker stopping outside during the summer on a reasonably frequent service would likely think about it for their next visit, especially if they live on the route. Most X18s that don't extend to Berwick have 8 minutes layover at Alnwick Bus Station, if we assume it's a 5 minute diversion to the Gardens then it is certainly doable.

You know you make an interesting point there but a different option would be keep my quick X15 as the 'fast' bus upto North Northumberland. Then change the southern section and flip the X18 and X20 around, with the X20 being extended to Berwick.

The X20 arguable is the better Coast bus anyway as it serves more of Amble, and it serves the Caravan parks like you mentioned, the X18 doesn't really serve anything unless your trying to get prisoners on days trips up the Coast. Your opening loads of new links, Ashington / Lynemouth to all of North Northumberland for example but also a bus from Ashington to Berwick even known it's a bit slow whereas the X18 lost links would be mostly be covered by the X15 anyway excluding Ulgham and Pegswood.

You could easily reroute the X15 (the current one) to go out my way out of Alnwick aswell btw and just got up the A1 instead tbh. There's no bus stops between the top end of Alnwick and the A1 anyway so it's just wasting time. Massive seller imo having, 'Catch the X15 direct from Morpeth/Newcastle to Alnwick Gardens hourly' rather than the X18.

Then any new buses would be for the premium X15 (if they ever come), with the current Enviro's doing the less harsh X18 / X20.

Anyway of doing something with the X14

(09 Mar 2021, 6:12 pm)Storx wrote You know you make an interesting point there but a different option would be keep my quick X15 as the 'fast' bus upto North Northumberland. Then change the southern section and flip the X18 and X20 around, with the X20 being extended to Berwick.

The X20 arguable is the better Coast bus anyway as it serves more of Amble, and it serves the Caravan parks like you mentioned, the X18 doesn't really serve anything unless your trying to get prisoners on days trips up the Coast. Your opening loads of new links, Ashington / Lynemouth to all of North Northumberland for example but also a bus from Ashington to Berwick even known it's a bit slow whereas the X18 lost links would be mostly be covered by the X15 anyway excluding Ulgham and Pegswood.

Then any new buses would be for the premium X15 (if they ever come), with the current Enviro's doing the less harsh X18 / X20.

The flip is interesting. Thinking about it the only real place to be disadvantaged would be Acklington and Pegswood, but I don't think that people either of those would be making many journeys north of Alnwick?

I think any new buses all need to be the same spec and branding so they can all be used flexibly. The problem at the moment is that too much work is being done by the newer vehicles since the older stuff is all shot, you really need to even that out and the best way to do that is to buy a batch to cover all the Alnwick routes to even out the workload.

(09 Mar 2021, 7:23 pm)mb134 wrote The flip is interesting. Thinking about it the only real place to be disadvantaged would be Acklington and Pegswood, but I don't think that people either of those would be making many journeys north of Alnwick?

I think any new buses all need to be the same spec and branding so they can all be used flexibly. The problem at the moment is that too much work is being done by the newer vehicles since the older stuff is all shot, you really need to even that out and the best way to do that is to buy a batch to cover all the Alnwick routes to even out the workload.

It's all I can think of tbh, and those from Pegswood it's probably just as quick to hop on the 35 and change to the X15 anyway. Guessing it's from legacy routes of the 420/20 terminating at Ashington.

Oh definitely, I just meant to have the newer ones ones on the X15 as it's the hardest route. Then have the 14 plates on the the other routes. Heck if you terminated the X18 at Alnwick, you could probably get away with having singles on if your trying to push more people onto the X20.

(09 Mar 2021, 11:36 pm)Storx wrote It's all I can think of tbh, and those from Pegswood it's probably just as quick to hop on the 35 and change to the X15 anyway. Guessing it's from legacy routes of the 420/20 terminating at Ashington.

Oh definitely, I just meant to have the newer ones ones on the X15 as it's the hardest route. Then have the 14 plates on the the other routes. Heck if you terminated the X18 at Alnwick, you could probably get away with having singles on if your trying to push more people onto the X20.

I think my suggestion, vehicle wise, for the Alnwick/Thropton routes would be something along the lines of the following:

X14: Heavy duty single decks (i.e B8RLE, new WrightBus integral single deck, 6-cyl E200 MMC)
X15: E400 MMCs. Preferably Scania powered, though new Cummins powered ones will be more than fine if ZF coupled.
X16: Heavy duty single decks (same as X14)
X18: E400 MMCs, again preferably Scania.
X20: E400 MMCs.

You'd have to sort out the scholars board that one of the X14 boards does in the afternoon, but I'm sure you could find something somewhere for that. Generally the X14 is absolutely fine with single decks, as is the X16. If you get heavy duty stuff it offers more flexibility if you need to quickly sling one onto the X15 due to late running or a failure - Streetlites on the X15 are horrendous. As part of this you'd also move the X16 across to Ashington, again to improve operational flexibility as well as cutting dead mileage.

(09 Mar 2021, 11:53 pm)mb134 wrote I think my suggestion, vehicle wise, for the Alnwick/Thropton routes would be something along the lines of the following:

X14: Heavy duty single decks (i.e B8RLE, new WrightBus integral single deck, 6-cyl E200 MMC)
X15: E400 MMCs. Preferably Scania powered, though new Cummins powered ones will be more than fine if ZF coupled.
X16: Heavy duty single decks (same as X14)
X18: E400 MMCs, again preferably Scania.
X20: E400 MMCs.

You'd have to sort out the scholars board that one of the X14 boards does in the afternoon, but I'm sure you could find something somewhere for that. Generally the X14 is absolutely fine with single decks, as is the X16. If you get heavy duty stuff it offers more flexibility if you need to quickly sling one onto the X15 due to late running or a failure - Streetlites on the X15 are horrendous. As part of this you'd also move the X16 across to Ashington, again to improve operational flexibility as well as cutting dead mileage.

Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.

Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.

(10 Mar 2021, 12:14 am)Storx wrote Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.

Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.

I'm told reasonably reliably that certain X15 journeys now (well, pre-Covid), would struggle with a coach in terms of loading - with deckers being reasonably full. I'm possibly wrong on the specifics, but I believe one such trip is the 0653 from Alnwick which can take a decent load into Newcastle. I'd love to see coaches but I think it's unrealistic anyway with Arriva, though they possibly wouldn't make sense anyway with loads. 

I've seen virtually all of the Alnwick runs (X15/18/20) take full seated loads in and out of Newcastle in the past, so I think they realistically need deckers for flexibility if nothing else. I've never seen an X16 need anything more than a Pulsar, and I think I've seen an X14 fill a single decker on a few occassions (tends to be if the Alnwick express before it is running late). 

The 685, however... I'd hope Arriva realise with all routes currently operated by Scanias that they really need heavy duty replacements, though I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.

Isn't the X16 a Jesmond route dur to 1499 being on it a few times

(10 Mar 2021, 12:14 am)Storx wrote Honestly can't really disagree with that tbh expecially for the X14, X16, X18 and X20. Maybe could do a swap with the 35/X14 for the school run.

Would love to see coaches back on the X15 though mind over deckers, just think for the distance think they'd be actually useful as it's pretty much an express service throughout with a small batch at Jesmond for the 685 aswell. Think the additional comfort would suit them. The extra dwell time might be a problem going into Morpeth, Alnwick and Berwick but the 10 in the Highlands doesn't really have any issues with that and they've been coaches in the past.

I'm not convinced you'd even be able to suitably accommodate coaches at Morpeth Bus Station in particular the electronic ramps many coaches have these days may not have the space to be used on the conventional stands, don't know what the dedicated long distance stand is like for space.

The X14 is a weird one for what to use as I've often had not particularly high loadings on it but at other times you can end up with pretty much a full seated loading on an E400.

Not sure on having coaches on 685 again as more tends to be used in parts rather than the full route although you do get some that will do a full journey to/from Carlisle for a jolly, part of me would like to see it go decker operated but it's only required for the school loadings most of the time.

Having travelled on these routes many times, I would prefer double deckers. They are much better for tourist type routes for the views; the views from the top deck along the coast from Warkworth to Alnwick on the X18/X20  of Alnmouth and the river are excellent.  Likewise for the coast around Seahouses, Bamburgh, Holy Island.

(10 Mar 2021, 12:24 am)mb134 wrote I'm told reasonably reliably that certain X15 journeys now (well, pre-Covid), would struggle with a coach in terms of loading - with deckers being reasonably full. I'm possibly wrong on the specifics, but I believe one such trip is the 0653 from Alnwick which can take a decent load into Newcastle. I'd love to see coaches but I think it's unrealistic anyway with Arriva, though they possibly wouldn't make sense anyway with loads. 

I've seen virtually all of the Alnwick runs (X15/18/20) take full seated loads in and out of Newcastle in the past, so I think they realistically need deckers for flexibility if nothing else. I've never seen an X16 need anything more than a Pulsar, and I think I've seen an X14 fill a single decker on a few occassions (tends to be if the Alnwick express before it is running late). 

The 685, however... I'd hope Arriva realise with all routes currently operated by Scanias that they really need heavy duty replacements, though I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.

Yeah valid points with the loadings tbf the X15 does get bus especially at peak times in the Summer tbf. Definitely with the 685, no doubt we'll see some Streetlites though then the bosses will be confused after a few months why they've got older stock running on it.

(10 Mar 2021, 1:19 am)Jimmi wrote I'm not convinced you'd even be able to suitably accommodate coaches at Morpeth Bus Station in particular the electronic ramps many coaches have these days may not have the space to be used on the conventional stands, don't know what the dedicated long distance stand is like for space.

The X14 is a weird one for what to use as I've often had not particularly high loadings on it but at other times you can end up with pretty much a full seated loading on an E400.

Not sure on having coaches on 685 again as more tends to be used in parts rather than the full route although you do get some that will do a full journey to/from Carlisle for a jolly, part of me would like to see it go decker operated but it's only required for the school loadings most of the time.

Fair point with Morpeth, forgot they rebuilt the bus station there since the coaches we're originally on.

Dunno about the 685 though, it's quite similar to some of Stagecoach Highland's bus routes the X99 and 10 from Inverness in particular and they're quite popular on there. Suppose it depends how many people are making long'ish trips tho ie. Haltwhistle to Carlisle rather than Haltwhistle to Greenhead etc.

(10 Mar 2021, 9:48 am)RMF1254 wrote Having travelled on these routes many times, I would prefer double deckers. They are much better for tourist type routes for the views; the views from the top deck along the coast from Warkworth to Alnwick on the X18/X20  of Alnmouth and the river are excellent.  Likewise for the coast around Seahouses, Bamburgh, Holy Island.

Is there much height difference between a coach and a double decker? Genuine question that (not rhetorical). Must be quick close surely or we're talking cm's rather than metres difference at least - I could be wrong though.

(10 Mar 2021, 12:24 am)mb134 wrote The 685, however... I'd hope Arriva realise with all routes currently operated by Scanias that they really need heavy duty replacements, though I guess we'll have to wait and see about that.

We can only hope... 3 Streetlites tracking on 685 today (1574, 1583 and 1587). It's been more common to have either 3 Pulsars or 2 Pulsars and a Streetlite over the past few months. I can't imagine it is a comfortable journey for end to end passengers.

(11 Mar 2021, 10:44 am)cainebj wrote We can only hope... 3 Streetlites tracking on 685 today (1574, 1583 and 1587). It's been more common to have either 3 Pulsars or 2 Pulsars and a Streetlite over the past few months. I can't imagine it is a comfortable journey for end to end passengers.

I once did a full trip on the 685 with a Lite and the worst part was actually the seats, firm/hard e-leather for 2+ hours wasn't the best experience it must be said

(12 Mar 2021, 2:15 am)Jimmi wrote I once did a full trip on the 685 with a Lite and the worst part was actually the seats, firm/hard e-leather for 2+ hours wasn't the best experience it must be said

Is there much difference between those StreetLites and the ones we have down here?
I don't find them particularly bad, if anything I think they're slightly more cushioned than GNE's e-leather equivalents.

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks.

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby.
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service.

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services.

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm - Teesside Airport - Darlington.

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport.

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton- Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle.

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus.
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.
Most other services to remain unchanged.

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged.

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged.

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

---

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

---

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

Don't agree with the X12/X13 changes. The X12 is about giving people outside Durham a connection to Newcastle using their Arriva tickets and also Sedgefield and Coxhoe direct buses and also the same the other way from Blyth / Gosforth / Ashington to Durham. It's not about Stockton / Middlesbrough to Newcastle and Arriva doesn't serve Billingham so it makes no sense going there.

It also gives Durham University a direct bus to Newcastle and links from multiple places to Durham College and the hospital without the change.

That said though I do think you could do some form of X13 like:

Durham - Durham University - East Durham College - NON STOP - Amazon Durham - NON STOP - Sedgefield (Limited Stops) - NON STOP - Tesco Stockton - Limited Stops - Stockton - Portrack Lane - Newport Bridge - NON STOP - Middlesbrough

To give a quicker service between Durham and Teesside as it's very slow atm and also a service north to Portrack Lane where there's shops and work places and a bus to Amazon Durham as there's none atm.

Can't really comment on the rest as I don't know them.

(12 Mar 2021, 8:11 am)streetdeckfan wrote Is there much difference between those StreetLites and the ones we have down here?
I don't find them particularly bad, if anything I think they're slightly more cushioned than GNE's e-leather equivalents.

I think the seats are marginally worse on theirs than the ones round Bishop/Darlington although still don't find those great but I ain't on those for 2 hours except when they were doing Dalesbus and Moorsbus in the summer before although they weren't particularly well favoured by passengers on these routes more for the absolutely shockingly bad ride quality than anything on some of the roads the routes serve.

(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks.

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby.
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service.

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services.

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm - Teesside Airport - Darlington.

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport.

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton- Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle.

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus.
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.
Most other services to remain unchanged.

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged.

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged.

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

---

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

Some of these suggestions have been put into practice in some forms in the past and never really took off and think some were council supported before being cut and others are just pointless duplicating of existing services or inconveniencing other passengers from changed/lost links.

(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

You do realise bus operators need to make a profit, right? No profit = no bus.

(13 Mar 2021, 4:51 pm)RobinHood wrote You do realise bus operators need to make a profit, right? No profit = no bus.

You could say the same for any service. How many of the current Stagecoach, Go North East, Arriva services are making profits.  Sometimes trying new services could actually work better than existing ones.

(13 Mar 2021, 5:16 pm)col87 wrote You could say the same for any service. How many of the current Stagecoach, Go North East, Arriva services are making profits.  Sometimes trying new services could actually work better than existing ones.

You're right, in order to get profit you need passengers, one of the main reasons i post suggestions on here is that bringing positive service changes to the table could present opportunities for long term benefits.

(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks.

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby.
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service.

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services.

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm - Teesside Airport - Darlington.

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport.

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton- Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle.

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus.
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.
Most other services to remain unchanged.

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged.

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged.

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

---

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

Ok then I’ll bite...
Extending all 15s to Ingleby Barwick - how about the people in Bassleton Court and how would they get to Thornaby (& Stockton)?
Reducing the frequency through Thornaby would not go down well either - it’s Arriva’s busiest route on Teesside (along with the 63) so would overload easily.
17 extended to Stockton, what about those people (including school children) in Thornaby and Ingleby Barwick travelling to Yarm & Eaglescliffe?


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(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks.

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby.
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service.

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services.

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm - Teesside Airport - Darlington.

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport.

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton- Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle.

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus.
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.
Most other services to remain unchanged.

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged.

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged.

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

---

A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

63 will continue as now but will now serve Kirkleatheam village.

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Some X93 Journeys will re numbered X95 and will operate non stop between Whitby and Scarborough and Continue to Bridlington via most of the Holiday Parks. This will be 2 journeys each way
on a morning and afternoon.   
Most other services to remain unchanged. 

Hartlepool.

23 and 24 to be unchanged. 

New service 25 will operate between Hartlepool and Peterlee via Hart Station and Castle Eden.

57 57A remain unchanged. 

New service X23 will operate as a limited express service between Hartlepool and Sunderland via Peterlee Easington and Doxford International.

Can’t see the 25 or the x23 working at all as there’s no demand , so you want the Arriva x23 going the same way as GNE service 55 in GNE territory?

I’m surprised Arriva service 23 is still running on a 30 minute frequency as it’s making a loss even before all this pandemic


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What about sending the 53 back down to ASDA again, GNE turn their 42 around at the Wheatsheaf Roundabout,so Arriva could turn their 53 around at the Roundabout outside the Range

(14 Mar 2021, 12:21 pm)V514DFT wrote What about sending the 53 back down to ASDA again, GNE turn their 42 around at the Wheatsheaf Roundabout,so Arriva could turn their 53 around at the Roundabout outside the Range

Asda could turn the recycling bin layby next to the petrol station into a bus stop or convert the lesser used parking spaces by the delivery entrance into a turning circle?

Arriva isn't that smart. A lot of people who I've seen were quite annoyed that the 53 got cut from serving Benton Asda. But that's what happens when a roundabout was taken out. Yea they could extend it to Turn around at the Range roundabout but make more sense if the 53 went all the way to Four Lane Ends but nah that won't happen

(14 Mar 2021, 12:56 pm)omnicity4659 wrote Asda could turn the recycling bin layby next to the petrol station into a bus stop or convert the lesser used parking spaces by the delivery entrance into a turning circle?

No i totally agree,buses used to go into ASDA outside the old Garden Centre,think it was only mini bus operated routes that were allowed in,like the 343/344

(14 Mar 2021, 10:54 am)tyresmoke wrote Ok then I’ll bite...
Extending all 15s to Ingleby Barwick - how about the people in Bassleton Court and how would they get to Thornaby (& Stockton)?
Reducing the frequency through Thornaby would not go down well either - it’s Arriva’s busiest route on Teesside (along with the 63) so would overload easily.
17 extended to Stockton, what about those people (including school children) in Thornaby and Ingleby Barwick travelling to Yarm & Eaglescliffe.  



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For the 15 is it not possible to get to Ingleby Barwick from Basselton court.  If not than another idea could be 15A between there and Stockton so still regular.

The idea for the 17 would have been a mixture of the 17 and 17A routes but if that don’t work then I would guess I would do a 17S School service between Yarm and Eaglescliffe.   Thornaby would still have several regular services to Stockton between the 15 15A and 17.  It’s just an idea after all.

(14 Mar 2021, 1:11 pm)MichealAaron wrote Arriva isn't that smart. A lot of people who I've seen were quite annoyed that the 53 got cut from serving Benton Asda. But that's what happens when a roundabout was taken out. Yea they could extend it to Turn around at the Range roundabout but make more sense if the 53 went all the way to Four Lane Ends but nah that won't happen

Send the 42 from Asda via Great Lime Road & Forest Hall (53 route), and send send 53 via Asda & Benton Metro (42 route)

(12 Mar 2021, 2:56 pm)col87 wrote A few ideas to improve the Hartlepool and Teesside networks. 

Teesside

The 15 extended to North Tees Hospital and all services extending to Ingleby Berwick via Thornaby. 
Some services will be renumbered to 16 and will operate North Tees Hospital - Yarm via Preston Park replacing the service 7. Both will continue to be a regular high frequency service. 

17 Will be extended to Stockton via Thornaby replacing the existing 17 and 17A services. 

21 Middlesbrough - Yarm -  Teesside Airport - Darlington. 

This will run in conjunction with the X66 and X67 providing a direct service between Middlesbrough Yarm and Teesside Airport. 

X 12 X13

All X12 Journeys will now Terminate at Durham.
New Service X13 will take over some of the X12 route and will operate Middlesbrough - Stockton-  Billingham then Direct to Chester Le Street  - The Angel of the North - Gateshead and Newcastle. 

X4 Will no longer continue to Whitby and instead will terminate at Lofus. 
New Service 67 will operate A new Whitby - Redcar service.

Hmm...

I'd suggest 15/15a/15b operating 15 minutes each to combine a 5 minute frequency. This would replace the 7

15 - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockton, Thornaby, Basselton Court
15a - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockon, Thornaby, Ingelby Barwick
15b - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockton, Preston Park, Yarm

17/17a to remain the same as they provide great links for Yarm/Ingelby/Middlesbrough

I don't think the 21 would work, not until Teesside Airport 'Takes off' that is. However when it does I'd suggest

X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row, Darlington Rail Station, Teesside Airport, Stockton, Teesside Park, Middlesbrough. Operating every 30 minutes.
This would replace the need for the 12 to serve Teesside Airport and create a 15 minute frequency for Teesside Park links. Also would allow advertising for the X66 for a quick link from the towns, X67 as the workers connect/express, and X68 for great days out.

The X12 could benefit from Panther LEs but I'm just dreaming. The route itself is okay and to me doesn't need improving. 

Cutting the X4 at Loftus is a bit silly to me as well, it's a great back up route back to Middlesbrough from Whitby if the X93 is late or very busy.

The improvements I'd suggest for Cleveland are:

92 - Stokesley to Saltburn via Guisborough and Skelton 
X92 - Summer Express service from Middlesbrough to Whitby via Guisborough, Saltburn and Loftus this would run alongside X93 and X94

Maybe an open top bus running shuttles between Redcar & Saltburn at normal fare to entice people to use the bus rather than the train too (weather depending).

(17 Mar 2021, 2:39 pm)Benny wrote Hmm...

I'd suggest 15/15a/15b operating 15 minutes each to combine a 5 minute frequency. This would replace the 7

15 - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockton, Thornaby, Basselton Court
15a - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockon, Thornaby, Ingelby Barwick
15b - North Tees, Roseworth, Stockton, Preston Park, Yarm

17/17a to remain the same as they provide great links for Yarm/Ingelby/Middlesbrough

I don't think the 21 would work, not until Teesside Airport 'Takes off' that is. However when it does I'd suggest

X68 - Darlington Tubwell Row, Darlington Rail Station, Teesside Airport, Stockton, Teesside Park, Middlesbrough. Operating every 30 minutes.
This would replace the need for the 12 to serve Teesside Airport and create a 15 minute frequency for Teesside Park links. Also would allow advertising for the X66 for a quick link from the towns, X67 as the workers connect/express, and X68 for great days out.

The X12 could benefit from Panther LEs but I'm just dreaming. The route itself is okay and to me doesn't need improving. 

Cutting the X4 at Loftus is a bit silly to me as well, it's a great back up route back to Middlesbrough from Whitby if the X93 is late or very busy.

The improvements I'd suggest for Cleveland are:

92 - Stokesley to Saltburn via Guisborough and Skelton 
X92 - Summer Express service from Middlesbrough to Whitby via Guisborough, Saltburn and Loftus this would run alongside X93 and X94 

Maybe an open top bus running shuttles between Redcar & Saltburn at normal fare to entice people to use the bus rather than the train too (weather depending).

I agree about the X4 and Loftus. Not just for those making the full trip or using it as an alternative to the X93, but for those in parts of East Cleveland who find the 5 doesn't meet their needs or in areas such as Staithes who still have the need to travel beyond Redcar. That journey doesn't need to be made any slower or more difficult than it already is.

Im not sure about the X92 suggestion though. How much quicker would it be between Saltburn and Whitby vs the X4?

I do think the 18 will come in to its own once we end the lockdown. A shame it doesn't run on weekends. I feel Coatham are missing a trick there.