(06 Apr 2021, 10:31 am)col87 wrote Would be nice if they could be bothered to try new services from Hartlepool to places although anything past Peterlee they don’t care about.  Let’s be honest the X9/X10 is just a service to get people to Newcastle but other than that they don’t care. It’s not exactly Go North East when they can’t be bothered with a good part of it.  The X21 only got extended in Bishop to serve them the bother of doing regular local services there.  Darlington and Hartlepool don’t seem to exist to them. They could have tried services from them places but no just do more services from Newcastle instead.  A similar X11 service could have been done from Hartlepool for example.

I'm the first to critisise GNE on here but it's not their fault they don't serve Hartlepool as it's not their area. It's Arriva and Stagecoach in particular who you should be complaining about as it's their operational area. Similar story in Bishop Auckland and Darlington bar they're both Arriva only. GNE don't have a depot anywhere near any of those 3 places and unless you want to cause petty price wars which never end well on their busy corridors aka the 6/7 corridors out of Durham with Arriva reacting with services along Durham Road again in Low Fell or even worse pulling out the other local services because the lost revenue on those services can no longer top over the less profitable services alone.

(06 Apr 2021, 10:31 am)col87 wrote Would be nice if they could be bothered to try new services from Hartlepool to places although anything past Peterlee they don’t care about.  Let’s be honest the X9/X10 is just a service to get people to Newcastle but other than that they don’t care. It’s not exactly Go North East when they can’t be bothered with a good part of it.  The X21 only got extended in Bishop to serve them the bother of doing regular local services there.  Darlington and Hartlepool don’t seem to exist to them. They could have tried services from them places but no just do more services from Newcastle instead.  A similar X11 service could have been done from Hartlepool for example.

I don't know why it's a case of Go North East not being bothered, when arguably Arriva and Stagecoach are the principle operators in that area and could quite easily take some commercial risk in creating/trying new links.

(05 Apr 2021, 4:52 pm)Dan wrote Hurrah! I'm glad you've finally acknowledged the point that has been continuously made regarding passenger loadings and the impact that the acceptance of standard 'local bus' tickets could have, even if you disagree.

I have already acknowledged the point on the vehicle branding, and the reasons for this. In normal circumstances, this service would have been allocated a coach, and been a part of the 'Northern Coaching' unit. This would be a good use for a coach which is otherwise confined to scholars duties during the week, and therefore naturally available on a weekend and during school holidays (unlike 6377, which would have been otherwise been the spare bus for services X9/X10 on Saturdays and during school holidays). Unfortunately we live in a world of social distancing at the moment, and, to ensure that there is sufficient capacity available to allow the service to cover its costs, a double-deck bus must be allocated. That double-deck bus has to be a newer bus, which has proven reliability. The 6-cylinder StreetDeck has proven itself as being more than capable on services X9/X10. Unfortunately Go North East can't justify painting a bus for an experimental seasonal service like this, and even if it was, you'd still have the same issue with it being sighted on services X9/X10 during the week, as it would still be intended to be the spare bus for those services during the week. All that said, there are differences between the X9/X10 and X11, with the latter serving different stops in Newcastle, Gateshead and Heworth. The destination displays will not reference Middlesbrough on the southbound journey to avoid confusion. What else would you do, if this was Andreos1's bus company, to differentiate the two (noting that the vehicle allocation is more or less set in stone this year, for the aforementioned reasons)?

Clearly you're a lone voice in that opinion with everyone else having echoed my comments regarding 'local travel' on the X11 service, but I can't help but feel your argument is flawed. In one breath you state that you 'don't think the numbers for those travelling locally would make too much difference' as they're so small in number, yet the main basis for your argument is that those passengers would supplement the revenue on the service. If, by your own admission, the numbers travelling locally would be so small, and wouldn't make a difference to the available capacity on-board, how on earth could it possibly make a notable difference to the sustainability of that route?

You make a good point regarding overnight stays in Whitby and Scarborough - particularly in Scarborough where there are holiday parks - and I would be surprised if this point had been 'overlooked' or 'ignored' by Go North East's commercial team. This would add a layer of risk, as it would become another unknown as to how many passengers would return from Scarborough. If, during the school holidays, families decide to head to Scarborough on a Friday for the weekend in a holiday park, and on the Sunday morning the bus is already full for the main target audience (the day-tripper market), how do those families on Sunday evening get back home? In a world of social distancing and reduced capacity on board buses, standees are sadly not permitted.

I can only echo the previous comment of this thread and the counter-argument being incredibly anal, over what is one return journey per day on a new service introduced to take advantage of the 'staycation' market, expected to be higher this year than previous due to the current travel restrictions. In my opinion your argument would have so much more substance if this service was something of a far greater frequency, but that's not the case.

Everyone else and 'lone voice'?

I've got no idea if you're still a GNE employee, are furloughed or have moved on to pastures new.
Either way, I'm not sure a public forum is the ideal place to come up with solutions that employees at multi-million pound organisation should be coming up with and are being paid to come up with. 
Regardless, I normally I charge for such advice in the role of a business consultant. 

You've identified potential problems, so work out methods or solutions to overcome them. Rather than putting barriers in place and giving it a typical shrug of the shoulders.
I've spent 5mins thinking of cheap, manageable and efficient methods to overcome each of the problems you have outlined. Cost effective, effective and easy to manage, with minimal outlay.

If making comments on the forum, about how the service isn't quite hitting the mark is 'anal', then I'm not sure what that makes other parts of the forum.

(06 Apr 2021, 6:11 pm)Andreos1 wrote Everyone else and 'lone voice'?

You've identified potential problems, so work out methods or solutions to overcome them. Rather than putting barriers in place and giving it a typical shrug of the shoulders.
I've spent 5mins thinking of cheap, manageable and efficient methods to overcome each of the problems you have outlined. Cost effective, effective and easy to manage, with minimal outlay.

If making comments on the forum, about how the service isn't quite hitting the mark is 'anal', then I'm not sure what that makes other parts of the forum.

But GNE would've thought out everything before taking on a commercial risk. There is always scope for development. 

The X11 is a simple and straightforward concept. No if's and no but's or complex ticketng. It's a case of:

- Day trip in Whitby and or Scarborough
- These are the prices
- These are the times (the timetable)

If it proves itself, GNE will expand the offering. The big advantage over a coach trip is you can simply turn up and go (no pun intended). And before getting onto capacity, if that proved to be an issue, GNE (and or EY) would be agile in responding to that no doubt given their recent track record.

(06 Apr 2021, 7:20 pm)L469 YVK wrote But GNE would've thought out everything before taking on a commercial risk. There is always scope for development. 

The X11 is a simple and straightforward concept. No if's and no but's or complex ticketng. It's a case of:

- Day trip in Whitby and or Scarborough
- These are the prices
- These are the times (the timetable)

If it proves itself, GNE will expand the offering. The big advantage over a coach trip is you can simply turn up and go (no pun intended). And before getting onto capacity, if that proved to be an issue, GNE (and or EY) would be agile in responding to that no doubt given their recent track record.

Really?

Two people board in Newcastle and get off in Whitby. What else is the bus doing apart from leech money on its trip to Scarborough, back to Whitby, back to Scarborough and then back to Newcastle via Whitby?
You're telling me that everything has been thought out before taking on commercial risk? I applaud them for doing something different and I applaud them for accepting the inevitable loss they're going to make.

There's absolutely no chance of them making any revenue from that day out at all. None whatsoever.
At least by letting people travel on it locally, you're reducing any loss. Slightly. Despite paying out nothing extra or incurring any additional costs?
But won't do so, incase it impacts on social distancing or people are forced to make their way back by other means. When (as Dan said so himself), the weather will impact on day-trippers and the numbers travelling.
Even though the weather won't impact on people travelling or commuting for work, seeing family, getting to uni after some time back home etc.

Regardless of the weather, a 6 hour round trip on the X11, plus an hour or so combined either side of it for travelling and connecting to/from the X11 for the sake of a couple of hours in Whitby or Scarborough is going to attract the very bravest of souls with the strongest of bladders. 
The additional income can make a difference and there are many ways of achieving that and overcoming the problems or the shrug of the shoulders we keep seeing. 'can't do this because of x', 'can't do this because of y'. So what? Do something about it so that x and y are overcome. That something doesn't need to be expensive or out of the ordinary either. It just needs to overcome x and y.

I want this to work and I want it to change the way operators think about services.
Like the X55, it could achieve so much. I just hope it doesn't go the way of the X55.

(06 Apr 2021, 11:00 pm)Andreos1 wrote Really?

Two people board in Newcastle and get off in Whitby. What else is the bus doing apart from leech money on its trip to Scarborough, back to Whitby, back to Scarborough and then back to Newcastle via Whitby?
You're telling me that everything has been thought out before taking on commercial risk? I applaud them for doing something different and I applaud them for accepting the inevitable loss they're going to make.

There's absolutely no chance of them making any revenue from that day out at all. None whatsoever.
At least by letting people travel on it locally, you're reducing any loss. Slightly. Despite paying out nothing extra or incurring any additional costs?
But won't do so, incase it impacts on social distancing or people are forced to make their way back by other means. When (as Dan said so himself), the weather will impact on day-trippers and the numbers travelling.
Even though the weather won't impact on people travelling or commuting for work, seeing family, getting to uni after some time back home etc.

Regardless of the weather, a 6 hour round trip on the X11, plus an hour or so combined either side of it for travelling and connecting to/from the X11 for the sake of a couple of hours in Whitby or Scarborough is going to attract the very bravest of souls with the strongest of bladders. 

But the X11 is not aimed at local journeys. If GNE / EY wanted to attract local journeys on that section of route, they'd set up a competitor to the X93.

The whole purpose of the X11 is to offer a day out to Whitby & Scarborough from anywhere between Newcastle & M'Boro plus the "odd" discretionary fare.

I reckon while they’re at it, they should accept all normal tickets and concessionary passes on the final trip of the day on the Toon Tour... for the local journeys people will make within Newcastle City Centre, on those rainy days with very few tourists, aiding the sustainability of the route.

It may add a huge layer of complexity, create another barrier, and an element of risk of passengers over-riding which would reduce the revenue intake, but hey, at least we’ve broken one barrier at the expense of putting another up.


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(07 Apr 2021, 5:20 am)Dan wrote I reckon while they’re at it, they should accept all normal tickets and concessionary passes on the final trip of the day on the Toon Tour... for the local journeys people will make within Newcastle City Centre, on those rainy days with very few tourists, aiding the sustainability of the route.

It may add a huge layer of complexity, create another barrier, and an element of risk of passengers over-riding which would reduce the revenue intake, but hey, at least we’ve broken one barrier at the expense of putting another up.


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Howay man, you can be more innovative and creative than that. Surely?

A change to report - the X11 is no longer being promoted under the X-lines brand, but ‘Seasider’ instead.
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/services/G...2021-04-08&direction=outbound

(06 Apr 2021, 12:43 pm)Adrian wrote I don't know why it's a case of Go North East not being bothered, when arguably Arriva and Stagecoach are the principle operators in that area and could quite easily take some commercial risk in creating/trying new links.

Yes they could but until last Go North East had always had a service of some sort in the Hartlepool area going back to the early days of it been known as Northern. If the 55 was not working they could have tried other services from Hartlepool instead like a new service to Newcastle or extending some of the East Durham services into the town plenty of options there.  They called Go North East but are not serving the whole of the North East are they if parts of Country Durham or Teesside just get some token services. I mean I know people up in Tyneside think the North East just revolves around them but it’s actually Berwick down to Middlesbrough so if they calling themselves Go North East they should try and serve the whole of the North East properly.  

As for Stagecoach and Arriva I agree they should try different services as well but they don’t really care and since both are controlled from Sunderland why would they care about providing better services in Hartlepool.  

They could have as easily done a Yorkshire coast from Peterlee and Hartlepool as well though which could have Served Billingham and Stockton as well.

(08 Apr 2021, 9:15 am)col87 wrote Yes they could but until last Go North East had always had a service of some sort in the Hartlepool area going back to the early days of it been known as Northern. If the 55 was not working they could have tried other services from Hartlepool instead like a new service to Newcastle or extending some of the East Durham services into the town plenty of options there.  They called Go North East but are not serving the whole of the North East are they if parts of Country Durham or Teesside just get some token services. I mean I know people up in Tyneside think the North East just revolves around them but it’s actually Berwick down to Middlesbrough so if they calling themselves Go North East they should try and serve the whole of the North East properly.  

As for Stagecoach and Arriva I agree they should try different services as well but they don’t really care and since both are controlled from Sunderland why would they care about providing better services in Hartlepool.  

They could have as easily done a Yorkshire coast from Peterlee and Hartlepool as well though which could have Served Billingham and Stockton as well.

Arriva and Stagecoach also use the 'North East' suffix, yet I'd argue that their networks are much more condensed than Go North East's

I'd also imagine its more operationally difficult to try something new, when you haven't an established presence in the area. I mean, if GNE were going to run Hartlepool to Scarborough for instance, where do you anticipate the buses come from? Sunderland is probably closest, but that is 25 miles of dead mileage out and in, on top of anything you do...

Stagecoach are arguably in the best position, given they have a depot there, if there was such demand...

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(08 Apr 2021, 6:41 am)S813 FVK wrote A change to report - the X11 is no longer being promoted under the X-lines brand, but ‘Seasider’ instead.
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/services/G...2021-04-08&direction=outbound

I wonder if our incessant complaining about confusing branding had anything to do with that?!

(08 Apr 2021, 10:48 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if our incessant complaining about confusing branding had anything to do with that?!

I don't imagine many/any comments here would have an impact at GNE towers. Possibly more likely that it was meant to be under that brand all along, especially given the nature of the route and the included open top ride?

(08 Apr 2021, 10:56 am)mb134 wrote I don't imagine many/any comments here would have an impact at GNE towers. Possibly more likely that it was meant to be under that brand all along, especially given the nature of the route and the included open top ride?

So then why would Dan, who is essentially a GNE representative, spend so much time defending it if it was going to change. I'd imagine in his role he'd have been pretty aware of the planned branding.

I'm not saying that our complaining made them change it, but it is a massive coincidence!

(08 Apr 2021, 10:48 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder if our incessant complaining about confusing branding had anything to do with that?!

Absolutely not - you’re giving this forum too much credit and Go North East’s commercial team not enough.

It was always planned for the service to be branded as Seasider, but the artwork hadn’t been completed with the new logo on so the name X-lines was used in the press release and in initial graphics just to get something out. The X11 is not an X-lines service, it doesn’t have a good fit within the X-lines family, and it’s nothing more than an operational decision to allocate an X-lines bus, for all the reasons mentioned previously.

The main promotion elements including the leaflet have all used Seasider, and any previous reference to X-lines in initial comms has been replaced.

Sorry to disappoint...


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(08 Apr 2021, 11:08 am)streetdeckfan wrote So then why would Dan, who is essentially a GNE representative, spend so much time defending it if it was going to change. I'd imagine in his role he'd have been pretty aware of the planned branding.

I'm not saying that our complaining made them change it, but it is a massive coincidence!

It isn’t changing?!


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When will the pdf be updated on the website for the x11

(08 Apr 2021, 11:15 am)Dan wrote Absolutely not - you’re giving this forum too much credit and Go North East’s commercial team not enough.

It was always planned for the service to be branded as Seasider, but the artwork hadn’t been completed with the new logo on so the name X-lines was used in the press release and in initial graphics just to get something out. The X11 is not an X-lines service, it doesn’t have a good fit within the X-lines family, and it’s nothing more than an operational decision to allocate an X-lines bus, for all the reasons mentioned previously.

The main promotion elements including the leaflet have all used Seasider, and any previous reference to X-lines in initial comms has been replaced.

Sorry to disappoint...


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Sorry, but I just don't believe you.

Why not just launch it with, get this, no logo!

It's not as if it was a proper launch anyway, and the only place the logo is visible is on the timetable page. The rest just referred to it by its name, so it could have just been called Seasider X11 on socials rather than Xlines X11

It could also just have easily been launches unbranded as shoving the Xlines branding in.

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Moderation note: I'm reluctant to do this, as I'd normally let the debate flow, but I've got two issues with this from a moderation perspective.

1. This is becoming an 'Ask Dan' thread. He's on this forum as an enthusiast, just like everyone else is, and I frankly find some of the responses directed personally to be unacceptable. This needs to stop. Now.

2. Some of the arguments being made are coming back around faster than a broken record. I'm prepared to give this thread a chance to flow and expand, but I'll simply close it at the point I feel it is warranted.

This is not up for discussion, and I'd ask that members take heed of this now.

(08 Apr 2021, 3:40 pm)Adrian wrote Moderation note: I'm reluctant to do this, as I'd normally let the debate flow, but I've got two issues with this from a moderation perspective.

1. This is becoming an 'Ask Dan' thread. He's on this forum as an enthusiast, just like everyone else is, and I frankly find some of the responses directed personally to be unacceptable. This needs to stop. Now.

2. Some of the arguments being made are coming back around faster than a broken record. I'm prepared to give this thread a chance to flow and expand, but I'll simply close it at the point I feel it is warranted.

This is not up for discussion, and I'd ask that members take heed of this now.

Totally agree!

Leaflet for x11:

https://twitter.com/johngelson/status/13...67267?s=21

Good you can transfer onto the open top Beachcomber for free.

(14 Apr 2021, 8:16 am)ne14ne1 wrote Leaflet for x11:

https://twitter.com/johngelson/status/13...67267?s=21

Good you can transfer onto the open top Beachcomber for free.

Looks like a very good leaflet, as usual.

Is there any reason why the full versions of the leaflet (with the extra details/prices/map etc.) aren't put on the website in the pdf versions of the timetable? Provides some good info for us enthusiasts and promotes other services to the general public. Much more useful than the cropped versions...

PDF copy of the leaflet is available from the main X11 promotion page
https://images-gonortheast.passenger-web...0PRINT.pdf

Can't answer for all of the other services though.

(14 Apr 2021, 5:51 pm)S813 FVK wrote PDF copy of the leaflet is available from the main X11 promotion page
https://images-gonortheast.passenger-web...0PRINT.pdf

Can't answer for all of the other services though.

Cheers, thanks for that!

I've just been down to John Dobson Street to witness the launch of the X11 on her maiden voyage to Scarborough and, my goodness, what a spectacle!

While, sadly, I was unable to sample the route today due to prior engagements, I was very impressed with what seemed to be on offer at the launch. I enjoyed the brass band and the whippets on display and thought the bunting looked nice. The stalls were a bit nondescript but I did manage to buy an official piece of merchandise commemorating the day from a guy with a flat cap and a faux camel-skinned coat selling wares out of a suitcase who introduced himself as Derek Woddle.

Overall, it was an enjoyable morning. Keep up the good work and I hope to sample the route soon.

7111 on dope with 6377 on the X11.

I wonder what the loading was like, according to Bus Times there are 28 seats free, although not sure how accurate that is, or whether it includes the social distancing measures like halving the capacity and removing the rearward facing seats (the best seats)

(17 Apr 2021, 10:25 am)streetdeckfan wrote I wonder what the loading was like, according to Bus Times there are 28 seats free, although not sure how accurate that is, or whether it includes the social distancing measures like halving the capacity and removing the rearward facing seats (the best seats)

Judging by this photo, it seems like it did carry a rather decent load, especially for the first journey!

https://twitter.com/darloscott/status/13...20/photo/1

(17 Apr 2021, 10:22 am)Malarkey wrote 7111 on dope with 6377 on the X11.

I wondered what that funny smelling smoke was eminating from between the vehicles.

(17 Apr 2021, 10:30 am)Adtrainsam wrote Judging by this photo, it seems like it did carry a rather decent load, especially for the first journey!

https://twitter.com/darloscott/status/13...20/photo/1

I would actually expect the first journey to be one of the most busy since all the people that need to try everything first will rush to use it (the same crowd that hang around the depots getting the first picture of a new tyre)

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(17 Apr 2021, 10:32 am)Clifton Hignett III wrote I wondered what that funny smelling smoke was eminating from between the vehicles.

I would suggest it was from last nights journey on the X21, but we haven't had 6377 in a while!