These are my suggestions on what the best fitting vehicles would be on most services. I am not predicting that these will happen, this is just my opinion on what types of buses should be allocated on what types of service.

X11- Just keep the X-Lines X9/10 and spares.
B1- Keep the Northern Versa.
ToonTour- Keep the open top Presidents (obvs)
AD122- Keep the Solo SR's but they should refurb the insides as they are getting a bit old.
X1- Def keep the Streetdeck MH 3 for now but in a few years they should upgrade to E400MMC.
X5,15- Keep the Streetdecks but maybe redo the seats into the 2018 red and blue leather as the plain blue ones still have the old logo on.
X6- Keep the Optare Solo SR.
X9,10- Keep the Elites but in a few years they should upgrade to better coaches.
X20- Get rid of the Citaros and upgarde to E200MMC.
X21- Upgrade to Streetdeck MH 3
X22- Keep using the spare X-Lines Gem 3
X30,1,2- Downgrade to Streetdeck MH 3, swap with X1.
X45,6,7- Keep the Streetdecks.
X66- Keep the Streetlites but rebrand as intu doesn't even own MetroCentre anymore. IMO they should bring back CentreLink.
X70,1,2- Keep the E400MMC.
X84,5- Keep the E400MMC.
1A,B- Keep the Gems but refurb them with the red seats and also get a new livery as the current one is getting a bit old.
2, 2A- Keep the Streetlites but get a new livery.
4- Get the citaros from X20 as they have the leather insides, and repaint the current ones into 2019 FL.
5,5A- I dont really know just keep whatever they have rn.
6,6A- Keep the citaros.
8,8A- Keep the streetlites.
9- Upgrade back to citaros but dont have a brand just 2019 FL.
10,10A,10B,10X- Upgrade to Streetdecks.
11- Keep the Solos.
12,12A- Keep the citaros.
16,16A- Keep the streetlites.
19- Keep the Solos.
20- Upgrade to Citaros, those streetlites are so thrashy on the A690.
21- Upgrade to E400MMCS.
25- Upgrade from those boring Versas to some Gems. 25 is getting way to busy for single deck.
26,7- Keep the Gems.
28,28A,28B- Keep the versas but I bet they wont last for long. After that I have no clue.
29- Same with 28.

I don't know anything about 30-40.

40,40B- Keep the Solos.
41,42,42A- Keep the Solos.
49- Keep the Streetlites but brand it, with an actual name not just "The 49".
50- Get rid of those terrible Omnicities and get some Streetlites or something.
53,54- Keep the Yutongs, nout wrong with them.
56- Get Streetdecks.
57- Rebrand and upgrade to E200MMC.
58- Keep the Gems.

ALL INDIGOS- Keep the Solos (and little pinks)

Cant be bothered to do the rest.
Share your opinions.

(05 Jun 2021, 9:24 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote These are my suggestions on what the best fitting vehicles would be on most services. I am not predicting that these will happen, this is just my opinion on what types of buses should be allocated on what types of service.

X11- Just keep the X-Lines X9/10 and spares.
B1- Keep the Northern Versa.
ToonTour- Keep the open top Presidents (obvs)
AD122- Keep the Solo SR's but they should refurb the insides as they are getting a bit old.
X1- Def keep the Streetdeck MH 3 for now but in a few years they should upgrade to E400MMC.
X5,15- Keep the Streetdecks but maybe redo the seats into the 2018 red and blue leather as the plain blue ones still have the old logo on.
X6- Keep the Optare Solo SR.
X9,10- Keep the Elites but in a few years they should upgrade to better coaches.
X20- Get rid of the Citaros and upgarde to E200MMC.
X21- Upgrade to Streetdeck MH 3
X22- Keep using the spare X-Lines Gem 3
X30,1,2- Downgrade to Streetdeck MH 3, swap with X1.
**not possible due to low bridge at Dunston on X30**

X45,6,7- Keep the Streetdecks.
X66- Keep the Streetlites but rebrand as intu doesn't even own MetroCentre anymore. IMO they should bring back CentreLink.
X70,1,2- Keep the E400MMC.
X84,5- Keep the E400MMC.
1A,B- Keep the Gems but refurb them with the red seats and also get a new livery as the current one is getting a bit old.
2, 2A- Keep the Streetlites but get a new livery.
4- Get the citaros from X20 as they have the leather insides, and repaint the current ones into 2019 FL.
**this would be a downgrade, newly refurbished 63 plate Citaro's on the 4 in exchange for 10(?) plate Citaro's**

5,5A- I dont really know just keep whatever they have rn.
**5 interworks with the 50 so Omnicities, these will be due an upgrade within the next two or three years**

6,6A- Keep the citaros.
**will have to be changed due to CAZ in Newcastle**
8,8A- Keep the streetlites.
9- Upgrade back to citaros but dont have a brand just 2019 FL.
**again downgrade in terms of age of vehicle**
10,10A,10B,10X- Upgrade to Streetdecks.
11- Keep the Solos.
12,12A- Keep the citaros.
**same as 6**

16,16A- Keep the streetlites.
19- Keep the Solos.
20- Upgrade to Citaros, those streetlites are so thrashy on the A690.
**downgrade due to age**
21- Upgrade to E400MMCS.
25- Upgrade from those boring Versas to some Gems. 25 is getting way to busy for single deck.
26,7- Keep the Gems.
28,28A,28B- Keep the versas but I bet they wont last for long. After that I have no clue.
29- Same with 28.

I don't know anything about 30-40.

40,40B- Keep the Solos.
41,42,42A- Keep the Solos.
49- Keep the Streetlites but brand it, with an actual name not just "The 49".
50- Get rid of those terrible Omnicities and get some Streetlites or something.
**see 5**

53,54- Keep the Yutongs, nout wrong with them.
56- Get Streetdecks.
57- Rebrand and upgrade to E200MMC.
58- Keep the Gems.

ALL INDIGOS- Keep the Solos (and little pinks)

Cant be bothered to do the rest.
Share your opinions.

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The solos on the little coasters are horrible

(06 Jun 2021, 7:44 am)V514DFT wrote The solos on the little coasters are horrible

Thank the lord someone said it

The Newcastle services need to be euro 6 eventually and the omnicities on 5/50 had a conversion to euro 6 so would need to replaced with vechiles that are also euro 6 and the 5 and 50 are weird becasue the 50 could be double decker operated but the 5 would be fine with a solo

(06 Jun 2021, 8:42 am)Ds1197 wrote The Newcastle services need to be euro 6 eventually and the omnicities on 5/50 had a conversion to euro 6 so would need to replaced with vechiles that are also euro 6 and the 5 and 50 are weird becasue the 50 could be double decker operated but the 5 would be fine with a solo

A solution to this would be to withdraw the 5 altogether. Revise the 50 / 50A to 50 / 51 / 52 and increase frequency Durham to Washington to Boldon as per normal 50 amd 50A and then send 52 via 5 from Boldon to Jarrow via Hedworth and Fellgate and the 51 to operate 5 and 50A routes between Shields and Jarrow. Maybe a few tweaks needed here and there but a plausible option.  Gives Jarrow and Fellgate direct services to Washington, Chester and Durham and keeps the link for Whiteleas etc.

100% agree on the 25 needing double deckers due to the passenger numbers. I am sure I read on this forum a few weeks back they are going to get them but not sure if that is definitely happening or not.

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(06 Jun 2021, 8:58 am)ifm001 wrote A solution to this would be to withdraw the 5 altogether. Revise the 50 / 50A to 50 / 51 / 52 and increase frequency Durham to Washington to Boldon as per normal 50 amd 50A and then send 52 via 5 from Boldon to Jarrow via Hedworth and Fellgate and the 51 to operate 5 and 50A routes between Shields and Jarrow. Maybe a few tweaks needed here and there but a plausible option.  Gives Jarrow and Fellgate direct services to Washington, Chester and Durham and keeps the link for Whiteleas etc.

Why would the people of Jarrow, Fellgate, and Whiteleas want a link to Chester and Durham at the loss of a link for the rest of South Tyneside?

(06 Jun 2021, 10:59 am)big mac wrote 100% agree on the 25 needing double deckers due to the passenger numbers.  I am sure I read on this forum a few weeks back they are going to get them but not sure if that is definitely happening or not.

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With 6001, 6049, 6050 and 6377 acting as spares (depending what's done with the 26) at Riverside, perhaps 6084-86 will replace 6045-47 with 6071-6086 getting a full refurb for the 10/10A/10B/10X.

That would then release 6043-48 for the 25 if the 25 is or would run standalone.

So this is what the B9TL allocations would look like:
- 6001 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6002-07 - Riverside - Crusader 27
- 6043-48 - Chester Le Street - 25
- 6049-50 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6051-55 - Riverside - Spare
- 6071-86 - Riverside/Hexham - 10/10A/10B/10X
- 6087 - Deptford - Spare
- 6088-98 - Deptford - CityRider 56
- 6099 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6100-01 - Percy Main - Spare (6101 branded)
- 6102-17 - Percy Main - Cobalt & Coast
- 6149-61 - Riverside - Loop & Gateshead EastRider

The 25 doesn't need anything fancy as a spare though as long as whatever allocated going forward is CAZ compliant.

Whatever is spare at Percy Main will depend if the 309/310/311 PVR is eventually re-increased back to 16.

(06 Jun 2021, 12:15 pm)L469 YVK wrote With 6001, 6049, 6050 and 6377 acting as spares (depending what's done with the 26) at Riverside, perhaps 6084-86 will replace 6045-47 with 6071-6086 getting a full refurb for the 10/10A/10B/10X.

That would then release 6043-48 for the 25 if the 25 is or would run standalone.

So this is what the B9TL allocations would look like:
- 6001 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6002-07 - Riverside - Crusader 27
- 6043-48 - Chester Le Street - 25
- 6049-50 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6051-55 - Riverside - Spare
- 6071-86 - Riverside/Hexham - 10/10A/10B/10X
- 6087 - Deptford - Spare
- 6088-98 - Deptford - CityRider 56
- 6099 - Riverside/Hexham - Spare
- 6100-01 - Percy Main - Spare (6101 branded)
- 6102-17 - Percy Main - Cobalt & Coast
- 6149-61 - Riverside - Loop & Gateshead EastRider

The 25 doesn't need anything fancy as a spare though as long as whatever allocated going forward is CAZ compliant.

Whatever is spare at Percy Main will depend if the 309/310/311 PVR is eventually re-increased back to 16.

Percy Main seem to use anything atm cause 
6056 last seen 14th May & 6059 last seen 28th May.  (Coasters)

Cobalt & Coast being 6101 last seen 27th May. I've noticed an increase of OmniDekka on the 309/310/311/1A/1B

Didn't Percy Main have 6099 on Loan for a while or was that 6100 I remember seeing last year. Also I remember Percy Main had 6332 on Loan last year for some unknown reason

Some great suggestions! 

I agree with the 25 needing upgrading as they are always quite busy even outside peak times. When they had the 1 going to Wrekenton they were never busy but since changing to the 25 it's definitely seen an increase in passengers even tho the buses have been downgraded... 

Since getting the streetlites on the X66 I have always thought they were never suitable for it as there is never enough room. The only thing they have done is made the service more reliable which is a good thing but its bad points. 

One service which you did not mention but really needs some upgrade is the Q1/2. Great service and very well used but the buses have always been a let down, need to see some streetlites or Mercs put on them.

(06 Jun 2021, 1:59 pm)Blockybus wrote One service which you did not mention but really needs some upgrade is the Q1/2. Great service and very well used but the buses have always been a let down, need to see some streetlites or Mercs put on them.

Yes, I agree. I just don't think Versas are fit for branded services. I think those new Scania Fencers would go well on the Q1/2, maybe the new single decker Streetdeck. Also a suggestion I have for the livery is that they should rebrand to the swoopy livery, with the purple on the bottom and the yellow on the top, like the QuayCity.

(06 Jun 2021, 1:54 pm)Micheal Aaron wrote Didn't Percy Main have 6099 on Loan for a while or was that 6100 I remember seeing last year. Also I remember Percy Main had 6332 on Loan last year for some unknown reason

6099 was initially earmarked as an additional spare when the Cobalt & Coast PVR was 17x (10x 309 & 7x 310) but hasn't been needed since as such although has been used in other roles.

(06 Jun 2021, 11:41 am)deanmachine wrote Why would the people of Jarrow, Fellgate, and Whiteleas want a link to Chester and Durham at the loss of a link for the rest of South Tyneside?

Jarrow Fellgate and Whiteleqs have multiple links available via other operators to the parts of South Tyneside served by the service 5.  Have you been to South Tyneisde yourself recently? Are you a resident? I'm a resident and I do anything to go elsewhere as we have nothing here.

(06 Jun 2021, 8:58 am)ifm001 wrote A solution to this would be to withdraw the 5 altogether. Revise the 50 / 50A to 50 / 51 / 52 and increase frequency Durham to Washington to Boldon as per normal 50 amd 50A and then send 52 via 5 from Boldon to Jarrow via Hedworth and Fellgate and the 51 to operate 5 and 50A routes between Shields and Jarrow. Maybe a few tweaks needed here and there but a plausible option.  Gives Jarrow and Fellgate direct services to Washington, Chester and Durham and keeps the link for Whiteleas etc.

The 50 is every 30 minutes though and the 5/50 run different routes between Boldon and South Shields?

So either your going to cut the service from half hourly to hourly on each of the spurs which you might aswell get arid of it as no-one wants an hourly service or increase it from 2 buses an hour to 6 buses an hour between Durham and Boldon which is insane, even 3 buses an hour is too many.

(06 Jun 2021, 3:15 pm)ifm001 wrote Jarrow Fellgate and Whiteleqs have multiple links available via other operators to the parts of South Tyneside served by the service 5.  Have you been to South Tyneisde yourself recently? Are you a resident? I'm a resident and I do anything to go elsewhere as we have nothing here.

Fellgate has no other link to Jarrow or Boldon (excluding late night journeys on the 30) and more importantly, the 5 links all of these areas to South Shields Hospital. As a resident of South Tyneside I see this as an important link which should be maintained.

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(06 Jun 2021, 3:41 pm)Storx wrote The 50 is every 30 minutes though and the 5/50 run different routes between Boldon and South Shields?

So either your going to cut the service from half hourly to hourly on each of the spurs which you might aswell get arid of it as no-one wants an hourly service or increase it from 2 buses an hour to 6 buses an hour between Durham and Boldon which is insane, even 3 buses an hour is too many.

If a possible 3 buses an hour is too many between Durham and Boldon that would then go against the suggestion made previously that the 50 would warrant double deckers.  Increase capacity woth larger buses or increase frequency with same size vehicles.   

Yes the routes differ between Boldon and Shields hence why I recommended numbers 50 and 51 which would retain the route difference. 

As I said some tweaks etc would also be needed  this was just a quick thought that popped into my head.

---

(06 Jun 2021, 4:50 pm)6049 wrote Fellgate has no other link to Jarrow or Boldon (excluding late night journeys on the 30) and more importantly, the 5 links all of these areas to South Shields Hospital. As a resident of South Tyneside I see this as an important link which should be maintained.

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Fellgate has a daily link to Boldon with the 558 during the day and the 30 on late evenings.
Jarrow as you say has the link with the 5 but there is also the service 9 from Boldon Lad (or Herons as it is now). Yes that would warrant a change of bus  but there are many areas that have the same issue  a change of bus is required.  I guess most people would love direct services to everywhere but regrettably in some instances changes would be necessary .
There is also the Metro although again that would warrant warrant change.
As I've just stated in previous post, these may need tweaking, this was just a thought gone through my head.
Maybe it's good that conversation has moved across the other side of the Tyne for a change  instead of being constantly about the North Tyneside network.  
I'm sure there are plenty other alternatives that could be put forward and recommended. This was just mine.

(05 Jun 2021, 9:24 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote These are my suggestions on what the best fitting vehicles would be on most services. I am not predicting that these will happen, this is just my opinion on what types of buses should be allocated on what types of service.

X11- Just keep the X-Lines X9/10 and spares.
B1- Keep the Northern Versa.
ToonTour- Keep the open top Presidents (obvs)
AD122- Keep the Solo SR's but they should refurb the insides as they are getting a bit old.
X1- Def keep the Streetdeck MH 3 for now but in a few years they should upgrade to E400MMC.
X5,15- Keep the Streetdecks but maybe redo the seats into the 2018 red and blue leather as the plain blue ones still have the old logo on.
X6- Keep the Optare Solo SR.
X9,10- Keep the Elites but in a few years they should upgrade to better coaches.
X20- Get rid of the Citaros and upgarde to E200MMC.
X21- Upgrade to Streetdeck MH 3
X22- Keep using the spare X-Lines Gem 3
X30,1,2- Downgrade to Streetdeck MH 3, swap with X1.
X45,6,7- Keep the Streetdecks.
X66- Keep the Streetlites but rebrand as intu doesn't even own MetroCentre anymore. IMO they should bring back CentreLink.
X70,1,2- Keep the E400MMC.
X84,5- Keep the E400MMC.
1A,B- Keep the Gems but refurb them with the red seats and also get a new livery as the current one is getting a bit old.
2, 2A- Keep the Streetlites but get a new livery.
4- Get the citaros from X20 as they have the leather insides, and repaint the current ones into 2019 FL.
5,5A- I dont really know just keep whatever they have rn.
6,6A- Keep the citaros.
8,8A- Keep the streetlites.
9- Upgrade back to citaros but dont have a brand just 2019 FL.
10,10A,10B,10X- Upgrade to Streetdecks.
11- Keep the Solos.
12,12A- Keep the citaros.
16,16A- Keep the streetlites.
19- Keep the Solos.
20- Upgrade to Citaros, those streetlites are so thrashy on the A690.
21- Upgrade to E400MMCS.
25- Upgrade from those boring Versas to some Gems. 25 is getting way to busy for single deck.
26,7- Keep the Gems.
28,28A,28B- Keep the versas but I bet they wont last for long. After that I have no clue.
29- Same with 28.

I don't know anything about 30-40.

40,40B- Keep the Solos.
41,42,42A- Keep the Solos.
49- Keep the Streetlites but brand it, with an actual name not just "The 49".
50- Get rid of those terrible Omnicities and get some Streetlites or something.
53,54- Keep the Yutongs, nout wrong with them.
56- Get Streetdecks.
57- Rebrand and upgrade to E200MMC.
58- Keep the Gems.

ALL INDIGOS- Keep the Solos (and little pinks)

Cant be bothered to do the rest.
Share your opinions.

Don't forget the low bridge for the X30 which would rule out the stteetdecks from Washington appearing on that route ?

(06 Jun 2021, 5:26 pm)ifm001 wrote If a possible 3 buses an hour is too many between Durham and Boldon that would then go against the suggestion made previously that the 50 would warrant double deckers.  Increase capacity woth larger buses or increase frequency with same size vehicles.   

Yes the routes differ between Boldon and Shields hence why I recommended numbers 50 and 51 which would retain the route difference. 

As I said some tweaks etc would also be needed  this was just a quick thought that popped into my head.

---

Fellgate has a daily link to Boldon with the 558 during the day and the 30 on late evenings.
Jarrow as you say has the link with the 5 but there is also the service 9 from Boldon Lad (or Herons as it is now). Yes that would warrant a change of bus  but there are many areas that have the same issue  a change of bus is required.  I guess most people would love direct services to everywhere but regrettably in some instances changes would be necessary .
There is also the Metro although again that would warrant warrant change.
As I've just stated in previous post, these may need tweaking, this was just a thought gone through my head.
Maybe it's good that conversation has moved across the other side of the Tyne for a change  instead of being constantly about the North Tyneside network.  
I'm sure there are plenty other alternatives that could be put forward and recommended. This was just mine.

The links you have mentioned are infrequent and run by two different operators - the latter meaning unless you get a Day Rover, you will have to pay two separate fares (unless GCT accept South Tyneside SmartZone which I suspect they don't). Off the top of my head, the 30 runs once every two hours and the 558 is hourly, with a number of early morning journeys not running through Fellgate, not to mention only serving one side of the estate.

Even the point about the Metro runs into difficulties in that it is not free for the elderly (token payment I accept to use it for the year), the change to the 9 would have to occur in Boldon for 558 users as there isn't a stop prior to that where they meet or they face a hike over to Calf Close which for anyone with walking difficulties may be too much.

I agree there's room for improvement, but given the links the 5 provides, I can't see it going anywhere or being changed. Especially as the whole drive at the moment is to make public transport more accessible.

On a side note, the 50 works half hourly as it interworks with the 5. The 5 is generally not the busiest of buses, but the 50 is. Quite a few departures from Durham have students packing the Omnicities out. They've changed it to serve Nissan all day now, and naturally it's the direct link for anyone in the Chester-Le-Street area for a day out at the seaside. Weekend's on the 50 in the Summer can be standing room only by the time it gets to Washington. Hence why Sunday allocations used to be Red Arrow B9s. The same argument could be used with the 26 and 27. 27 warrants a decker, the 26 generally won't. I'd argue that converting the 50 and 5 to DD wouldn't be a bad idea when suitable deckers are available. The Angels are a few years old now, maybe they'll be upgraded about the same time as the Omnicities are ready to expire and they come over to the 50 and 5?



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(07 Jun 2021, 2:02 pm)6049 wrote The links you have mentioned are infrequent and run by two different operators - the latter meaning unless you get a Day Rover, you will have to pay two separate fares (unless GCT accept South Tyneside SmartZone which I suspect they don't). Off the top of my head, the 30 runs once every two hours and the 558 is hourly, with a number of early morning journeys not running through Fellgate, not to mention only serving one side of the estate.

Even the point about the Metro runs into difficulties in that it is not free for the elderly (token payment I accept to use it for the year), the change to the 9 would have to occur in Boldon for 558 users as there isn't a stop prior to that where they meet or they face a hike over to Calf Close which for anyone with walking difficulties may be too much.

I agree there's room for improvement, but given the links the 5 provides, I can't see it going anywhere or being changed. Especially as the whole drive at the moment is to make public transport more accessible.

On a side note, the 50 works half hourly as it interworks with the 5. The 5 is generally not the busiest of buses, but the 50 is. Quite a few departures from Durham have students packing the Omnicities out. They've changed it to serve Nissan all day now, and naturally it's the direct link for anyone in the Chester-Le-Street area for a day out at the seaside. Weekend's on the 50 in the Summer can be standing room only by the time it gets to Washington. Hence why Sunday allocations used to be Red Arrow B9s. The same argument could be used with the 26 and 27. 27 warrants a decker, the 26 generally won't. I'd argue that converting the 50 and 5 to DD wouldn't be a bad idea when suitable deckers are available. The Angels are a few years old now, maybe they'll be upgraded about the same time as the Omnicities are ready to expire and they come over to the 50 and 5?



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Now if they did convert both routes to DD that would be ideal and I'm more than happy with ideal.  I only put forward my ideas when the other member raised the issue that minibuses would be suffice on the 5 as opposed to the decker on the 50.   But if they did do away with the interlocking and make them standalone then what would need to be considered is the capacity requirements once more.

(06 Jun 2021, 5:26 pm)ifm001 wrote If a possible 3 buses an hour is too many between Durham and Boldon that would then go against the suggestion made previously that the 50 would warrant double deckers.  Increase capacity woth larger buses or increase frequency with same size vehicles.   

Yes the routes differ between Boldon and Shields hence why I recommended numbers 50 and 51 which would retain the route difference. 

As I said some tweaks etc would also be needed  this was just a quick thought that popped into my head.

---

Yeah that's fair enough then. Personally if I was going to try something I'd probably say something like this called the South Tyneside Loop and combine the 5, 26, H2 and the 9 between Jarrow and Hebburn - https://goo.gl/maps/SfRdU6tBK6SZ359o7. It would be extended to South Shields via the current 5 route and serve Whiteleas and Green Lane (I ran out of pins).

It provides links to pretty much everywhere you need to be in South Tyneside on one massive route. I know you'd have dead running for drivers but it's better than running deckers on the 5 / 26 which don't need them so you'd make savings then plus the H2 which is useless.

I'd also extend the 35 to Jarrow via the 9 route including Kirkstone Avenue during the day to keep buses along Bede Burn Road / York Avenue to keep enough buses along there (6 buses to 2 buses is a bit excessive).