(11 Jul 2021, 3:26 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote I would agree with the 27, 57, 93/94, 309/310 & X1 ideas. I would also make a full 4 night service.

I can see there at least being short 4s running all night especially with Amazon opening, connecting with the 56. A lot of people making the once a night connection.

QE Hospital already has a really good service. I haven't counted, but it must have 6 - 8 buses an hour still on an evening, but having said that, I'm not sure why you'd need to have even more buses later on? Visiting times for hospitals have usually ended by 19.30.

(12 Jul 2021, 9:08 am)Adrian wrote QE Hospital already has a really good service. I haven't counted, but it must have 6 - 8 buses an hour still on an evening, but having said that, I'm not sure why you'd need to have even more buses later on? Visiting times for hospitals have usually ended by 19.30.

What about staff, wasnt there uproar regarding this in South Tyneside?

(12 Jul 2021, 9:54 am)ASX_Terranova wrote What about staff, wasnt there uproar regarding this in South Tyneside?

What sort of shift patterns do you think hospital staff are on, to think there needs to be more buses throughout the evening? 

I don't know buses around South Tyneside hospital as well as I do with the QEH, but you've actually got 11 buses per hour (each direction) throughout the evening. 

X1 = 2ph
56 = 2ph
57 = 2ph
67 = 1ph
93/94 = 2ph
Q1/Q2 = 2ph

(12 Jul 2021, 10:40 am)Adrian wrote What sort of shift patterns do you think hospital staff are on, to think there needs to be more buses throughout the evening? 

I don't know buses around South Tyneside hospital as well as I do with the QEH, but you've actually got 11 buses per hour (each direction) throughout the evening. 

X1 = 2ph
56 = 2ph
57 = 2ph
67 = 1ph
93/94 = 2ph
Q1/Q2 = 2ph

Speaking from anecdotal experience of friends/family and hospital shifts, quite often a taxi is the only option for those who don't drive. Even with salary deductions in to Network Travelticket schemes. Shifts just don't always work with public transport. 
For those who do drive, car is king.

As an example, just searched a whatsapp chat and there was mention of a 12 hour shift starting at 6am.
He obviously needs to be there in advance (5.30am ish). Despite living on a bus route which would take him within yards of the hospital he works at - there's nothing which can get him to work (or home) for the majority of his shifts.

Another example saw him leave the house at 6, do the 12 hours (plus a little extra) and he got back home at 9.30 the next morning.

(12 Jul 2021, 11:26 am)Andreos1 wrote Speaking from anecdotal experience of friends/family and hospital shifts, quite often a taxi is the only option for those who don't drive. Even with salary deductions in to Network Travelticket schemes. Shifts just don't always work with public transport. 
For those who do drive, car is king.

As an example, just searched a whatsapp chat and there was mention of a 12 hour shift starting at 6am.
He obviously needs to be there in advance (5.30am ish). Despite living on a bus route which would take him within yards of the hospital he works at - there's nothing which can get him to work (or home) for the majority of his shifts.

Another example saw him leave the house at 6, do the 12 hours (plus a little extra) and he got back home at 9.30 the next morning.

I don't disagree, but it comes down to a chicken and egg situation. The ideal solution would be an 'out of hours' DRT service, which I hope the impending enhanced partnerships scheme would look to offer and it would be well used. Because even with 24 hour services on the likes of the 21 and 56, its never going to be possible to ensure everyone can get a conventional bus out of hours, at a frequency where it's going to be convenient to use.

(12 Jul 2021, 10:40 am)Adrian wrote What sort of shift patterns do you think hospital staff are on, to think there needs to be more buses throughout the evening? 

I don't know buses around South Tyneside hospital as well as I do with the QEH, but you've actually got 11 buses per hour (each direction) throughout the evening. 

X1 = 2ph
56 = 2ph
57 = 2ph
67 = 1ph
93/94 = 2ph
Q1/Q2 = 2ph

I was thinking of shift finishes between 12am and 5am, this may be the same for factories as well.

(12 Jul 2021, 11:53 am)Adrian wrote I don't disagree, but it comes down to a chicken and egg situation. The ideal solution would be an 'out of hours' DRT service, which I hope the impending enhanced partnerships scheme would look to offer and it would be well used. Because even with 24 hour services on the likes of the 21 and 56, its never going to be possible to ensure everyone can get a conventional bus out of hours, at a frequency where it's going to be convenient to use.

I'm not sure it is a chicken and egg situation in this case.
The passengers are there. Just as they are at Amazon. Just as they were at Npower. 

A pro-active commercial department could work with the NHS trusts and find out exactly what demand there is and where the flows are.
The relationship is already there with Newcastle NHS and could easily be developed beyond what is in place now.
Staff are paying in to a system that they can't always use, the trusts are paying for parking at places like SJP and contracts have been in place previously - shuttling staff back and forth between the QE and the overflow carpark a mile up the road.

I'm just finished upgrading some GNE, ANE (Durham & Northumbria) & SNE (Tyne & Wear) routes. 
I have changed some routes and numbers and also given a lot of services their own distinct branding. 
It took me a while to do this, so I hope it was worth it.

New Service X39
Newcastle - NON STOP - Coach Lane Campus - Benton ASDA - Cobalt - Northumberland Park - Shiremoor - Monkseaton - Whitley Bay - Seaton Sluice - Blyth

New Service X40
Newcastle - NON STOP - Silverlink - Cobalt - Norham Road - Percy Main - North Shields (Ferry & Town Centre) - Tynemouth - Whitley Bay (Uses Full Promenade Between Tynemouth & Whitley Bay)

Every 30 Minutes Each, 15 Combined

Also could you put a full length single or deck decker on either the W1, W1A, W2, W3 or 333?

(17 Jul 2021, 5:16 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote New Service X39
Newcastle - NON STOP - Coach Lane Campus -  Benton ASDA - Cobalt - Northumberland Park - Shiremoor - Monkseaton - Whitley Bay - Seaton Sluice - Blyth

New Service X40
Newcastle - NON STOP - Silverlink - Cobalt - Norham Road - Percy Main - North Shields (Ferry & Town Centre) - Tynemouth - Whitley Bay (Uses Full Promenade Between Tynemouth & Whitley Bay)

Every 30 Minutes Each, 15 Combined

Also could you put a full length single or deck decker on either the W1, W1A, W2, W3 or 333?

Deckers have been on the 333 in the past.
I've often thought the 333 and Whitley local services could be merged and see no reason why they couldn't.

Suggestions for late evening 309/310/311 journeys:

- 2240 & 2320 310 ex Newcastle via Hadrian Park. 2320 310 retimed to run 5 mins later at 2325.

- 2300 311 ex Newcastle replaced with later 309 journey to Whitley Bay only departing at 2305.

(20 Jul 2021, 5:40 pm)L469 YVK wrote Suggestions for late evening 309/310/311 journeys:

- 2240 & 2320 310 ex Newcastle via Hadrian Park. 2320 310 retimed to run 5 mins later at 2325.

- 2300 311 ex Newcastle replaced with later 309 journey to Whitley Bay only departing at 2305.

Why?

(20 Jul 2021, 6:05 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Why?

Would give a later 309 journey after 11pm to fully compete with the 308. Last 2x 310 journeys would cover Hadrian Park in lieu of the 311.

The loadings on Friday's 2220 journey was decent and that was under Step 3 of lockdown rules. Obviously the £1 fare will no doubt be helping as well as reliability confidence given the situation with Arriva.

(20 Jul 2021, 10:14 pm)L469 YVK wrote Would give a later 309 journey after 11pm to fully compete with the 308. Last 2x 310 journeys would cover Hadrian Park in lieu of the 311.

The loadings on Friday's 2220 journey was decent and that was under Step 3 of lockdown rules. Obviously the £1 fare will no doubt be helping as well as reliability confidence given the situation with Arriva.

Noticed the other night that one of the late 309 (last but one if I remember correctly) runs was cancelled due to isolation.
A tweet went out 10mins before it was due to depart.
What made it worse, was that they had already tweeted an hour earlier, that the inbound journey from Blyth wasn't running.
Those who know the interworking patterns, would have been Ok.
The ordinary punter would have been left standing at Haymarket, wondering if the last one was going to rock up.
Hardly 'reliability confidence' for those users.

(20 Jul 2021, 10:14 pm)L469 YVK wrote Would give a later 309 journey after 11pm to fully compete with the 308. Last 2x 310 journeys would cover Hadrian Park in lieu of the 311.

The loadings on Friday's 2220 journey was decent and that was under Step 3 of lockdown rules. Obviously the £1 fare will no doubt be helping as well as reliability confidence given the situation with Arriva.

Why does it need to be competed against, if the 308 is already running that route? Overbussing on the Coast Road is one of the things that Enhanced Partnerships are supposed to deal with.

(21 Jul 2021, 7:48 am)Andreos1 wrote Noticed the other night that one of the late 309 (last but one if I remember correctly) runs was cancelled due to isolation.
A tweet went out 10mins before it was due to depart.
What made it worse, was that they had already tweeted an hour earlier, that the inbound journey from Blyth wasn't running.
Those who know the interworking patterns, would have been Ok.
The ordinary punter would have been left standing at Haymarket, wondering if the last one was going to rock up.
Hardly 'reliability confidence' for those users.

I bet there was no alternative journey options tweeted either.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused. Enjoy your overnight experience in Haymarket bus station.

(21 Jul 2021, 9:31 am)Adrian wrote Why does it need to be competed against, if the 308 is already running that route? Overbussing on the Coast Road is one of the things that Enhanced Partnerships are supposed to deal with.


I bet there was no alternative journey options tweeted either.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused. Enjoy your overnight experience in Haymarket bus station.

I think the Coast road is an example of competition taken too far.

One thing I hope the Enhanced Partnerships bring is cross ticketing on common sections of routes, the X21 and Arriva 6 basically mirror each other between Durham and West Auckland, so should I not be able to just hop on the 6 with my GNE weekly ticket since it's more frequent if I just want to get to Durham.

(21 Jul 2021, 9:31 am)Adrian wrote Why does it need to be competed against, if the 308 is already running that route? Overbussing on the Coast Road is one of the things that Enhanced Partnerships are supposed to deal with.


I bet there was no alternative journey options tweeted either.

Sorry for any inconvenience caused. Enjoy your overnight experience in Haymarket bus station. 

How did you know? It's almost as if the standard shrug of the shoulders and lack of ownership is to be expected!

The line about tracking the next bus was trotted out and that was it. 
No forward planning, no consideration for customers and no signposting. 

I appreciate sickness can't be helped, but they knew well in advance, that particular service wasn't running and they should know that passengers rely on them to get home. Tweeting 10mins before departure is pretty poor. 

Good job there are alternatives for most. Hopefully it didn't cost them too much extra to get home that night.

(21 Jul 2021, 10:57 am)Andreos1 wrote How did you know? It's almost as if the standard shrug of the shoulders and lack of ownership is to be expected!

The line about tracking the next bus was trotted out and that was it. 
No forward planning, no consideration for customers and no signposting. 

I appreciate sickness can't be helped, but they knew well in advance, that particular service wasn't running and they should know that passengers rely on them to get home. Tweeting 10mins before departure is pretty poor. 

Good job there are alternatives for most. Hopefully it didn't cost them too much extra to get home that night.

I was stood waiting for the first Sunderland-bound 2A of the morning on Sunday. App was showing me a live time of 3 minutes, but it wasn't moving beyond that, so 10mins in I checked the Facebook page to find out that the journey wouldn't be running due to a breakdown. Didn't even get an apology on that occasion, just a note to check the app to track my bus in real-time... because that was accurate up until now 

Perhaps the most bizarre part about it, was that I then decided to walk to catch a 4 instead (changing on to a 56 at Concord), and the so-called cancelled 2A went past! Nothing was added to Facebook to update that the 2A was running again. #BetterThanEver

To many buses in my opinion serve the coast road between Newcastle and the Corner house. Way to many. Then after that it's at battle hill where the 308 stick to it. And the rest go through battle hill.

No more services should go along the coast road. There's enough already

(21 Jul 2021, 11:10 am)Train8261 wrote To many buses in my opinion serve the coast road between Newcastle and the Corner house. Way to many. Then after that it's at battle hill where the 308 stick to it. And the rest go through battle hill.

No more services should go along the coast road. There's enough already

I disagree. We need more express buses that miss out Battle hill and Silverlink so that people to the East of these places can have a quick bus to Newcastle like the 44 did before Arriva destroyed it.

I mean. I'd like to see an X Lines route. Newcastle to Ashington via Coast Road and say stops like Whitley Bay Blyth then Ashington. Some sort of Express Route

I'm in the middle of trying to do an express 309 (X39) right now actually.
Going to Send the service into West Monkseaton (specifically Brentwood Road) & Monkseaton ( Metro), Whitley Lodge (Claremont Road) & Briardene (Wesley Avenue).

(22 Jul 2021, 10:10 am)ian foster wrote I disagree. We need more express buses that miss out Battle hill and Silverlink so that people to the East of these places can have a quick bus to Newcastle like the 44 did before Arriva destroyed it.

Although it is a stopping service I found the 308 reasonably quick from Whitley Bay to Newcastle yesterday afternoon but I do agree in having a more limited stopping service being in place and only serving major stops such as Silverlink, North Tyneside Hospital, Whitley Bay Town Centre/The Links & Seaton Sluice, You could in turn cut a journey which is currently 66 Minutes from Blyth to Newcastle down by potentially 15/20 Minutes as from looking at Google Maps it 37 minutes in a car.

(22 Jul 2021, 5:29 pm)Malarkey wrote Although it is a stopping service I found the 308 reasonably quick from Whitley Bay to Newcastle yesterday afternoon but I do agree in having a more limited stopping service being in place and only serving major stops such as Silverlink, North Tyneside Hospital, Whitley Bay Town Centre/The Links & Seaton Sluice, You could in turn cut a journey which is currently 66 Minutes from Blyth to Newcastle down by potentially 15/20 Minutes as from looking at Google Maps it 37 minutes in a car.

Doubt it. Maybe 10 if you're lucky. Remember a car is non-stop from A to B. A bus needs passengers for it to be useful.

(22 Jul 2021, 5:29 pm)Malarkey wrote Although it is a stopping service I found the 308 reasonably quick from Whitley Bay to Newcastle yesterday afternoon but I do agree in having a more limited stopping service being in place and only serving major stops such as Silverlink, North Tyneside Hospital, Whitley Bay Town Centre/The Links & Seaton Sluice, You could in turn cut a journey which is currently 66 Minutes from Blyth to Newcastle down by potentially 15/20 Minutes as from looking at Google Maps it 37 minutes in a car.

Don't really see the point personally.

Blyth has the X7/X9/X10/X11/X30
Half of Seaton Sluice has the X7
Whitley / Monkseaton has the Metro

Once you take all of them away there's not that many people left, especially when there's a few who use them to travel to college or to Silverlink etc to warrant an express service along there.

Either way it should be an Arriva service anyway. One thing I do think could be changed is the fact there's currently 9 buses an hour between Whitley and Lynn Road yet streets 1/2 a mile away have nothing especially Marden, can't blame people like Ian for being genuinely annoyed as they're service is crap (55 mins believe it is) and it's too far to realistically walk to Cullercoats Metro / Foxhunters.

(22 Jul 2021, 7:12 pm)Storx wrote Don't really see the point personally.

Blyth has the X7/X9/X10/X11/X30
Half of Seaton Sluice has the X7
Whitley / Monkseaton has the Metro

Once you take all of them away there's not that many people left, especially when there's a few who use them to travel to college or to Silverlink etc to warrant an express service along there.

Either way it should be an Arriva service anyway. One thing I do think could be changed is the fact there's currently 9 buses an hour between Whitley and Lynn Road yet streets 1/2 a mile away have nothing especially Marden, can't blame people like Ian for being genuinely annoyed as they're service is crap (55 mins believe it is) and it's too far to realistically walk to Cullercoats Metro / Foxhunters.

If you can incorporate the W1/W1A/W2/W3 maybe it could work.

I have a few suggestions for the 21, 25 and 2 brand new services.

21 would stay the same.
25 renumbered to 21A and terminates at Chester le Street.
New 13 service Chester le Street to Langley Park.

New 21B service from Newcastle to Chester le Street via:
Gateshead, Bensham, Team Valley, Lamesley, Kibblesworth, Birtley, Ouston, Pelton, South Pelaw

21 would keep Streetdecks.
21A would have Angel liveried Geminis.
21B would have Angel liveried Streetlites.

(22 Jul 2021, 7:12 pm)Storx wrote Don't really see the point personally.

Blyth has the X7/X9/X10/X11/X30
Half of Seaton Sluice has the X7
Whitley / Monkseaton has the Metro

Once you take all of them away there's not that many people left, especially when there's a few who use them to travel to college or to Silverlink etc to warrant an express service along there. 

Either way it should be an Arriva service anyway. One thing I do think could be changed is the fact there's currently 9 buses an hour between Whitley and Lynn Road yet streets 1/2 a mile away have nothing especially Marden, can't blame people like Ian for being genuinely annoyed as they're service is crap (55 mins believe it is) and it's too far to realistically walk to Cullercoats Metro / Foxhunters.

Plenty of people commute along the Coast Road between various points of North Tyneside.
This is all in addition to the ANE and GNE, the Metro and to an extent SNE.
All that competition and still there's traffic jams, cries for bus priority measures, road improvements etc.

In addition to that, you've got the A19 corridor teaming with business parks, manufacturing sites and new housing.
Despite that, money is spent on improving the road network or subsidising a bus between two desolate town centres and the Tyne Tunnel.

There's the A189 (which obviously connects directly/indirectly with both the A19 and Coast Road), with new housing at various points along it and business parks at various stages of it. 
Despite that, it's more or less impossible to get to/from many of them using public transport.

Sticking with the same old route network isn't working.
Whacking a collapsible bench on a rear facing seat isn't working.
I'm not sure 'desirable' branding is doing anything other than creating identikit fleets up and down the country.

Someone needs to find out where the people are coming from, where they're going to and work out what will encourage them to make the modal shift.

It might be a quicker service, it may be variations to the network or it might mean new services that allow people to travel easily and quickly between places like (the sorts of journeys that can be a bit of a nightmare as it stands, but shouldn't be) Marden and Quorum, Annitsford and Cobalt, New York and Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate or Howdon and the AMP.
Not just Town Centre to City Centre, in some sort of multi-coloured convoy.

(22 Jul 2021, 8:54 pm)Andreos1 wrote Plenty of people commute along the Coast Road between various points of North Tyneside.
This is all in addition to the ANE and GNE, the Metro and to an extent SNE.
All that competition and still there's traffic jams, cries for bus priority measures, road improvements etc.

In addition to that, you've got the A19 corridor teaming with business parks, manufacturing sites and new housing.
Despite that, money is spent on improving the road network or subsidising a bus between two desolate town centres and the Tyne Tunnel.

There's the A189 (which obviously connects directly/indirectly with both the A19 and Coast Road), with new housing at various points along it and business parks at various stages of it. 
Despite that, it's more or less impossible to get to/from many of them using public transport.

Sticking with the same old route network isn't working.
Whacking a collapsible bench on a rear facing seat isn't working.
I'm not sure 'desirable' branding is doing anything other than creating identikit fleets up and down the country.

Someone needs to find out where the people are coming from, where they're going to and work out what will encourage them to make the modal shift.

It might be a quicker service, it may be variations to the network or it might mean new services that allow people to travel easily and quickly between places like (the sorts of journeys that can be a bit of a nightmare as it stands, but shouldn't be) Marden and Quorum, Annitsford and Cobalt, New York and Tyne Tunnel Trading Estate or Howdon and the AMP.
Not just Town Centre to City Centre, in some sort of multi-coloured convoy.

Yeah agreed with that if I had to be honest, the services in parts of Whitley are a disgrace and it's no wonder bus usage is high. Monkseaton, Marden and Red House Farm must have some of the worst services in the North East especially the Southern Parts of Monkseaton which has the 57/57A and that's pretty much your lot, similar with Red House Farm which has the hourly 51 and that's your lot it's no wonder car usage is through the roof.

That's why I don't see the point in more expresses to add to the other 7 buses doing the same route through Whitley to Newcastle/Blyth (308 / 309) or the 5 buses between Whitley and Tynemouth doing pretty much the same route (1 / 306).

It's crazy how difficult it is to get to Silverlink, Tynemouth / Shields Morrison's, Monkseaton Sainsbury's and Norham Road Tesco from pretty much everywhere in East North Tyneside, argubly places where people need to get to if they want to shop. Sadly services which used to exist until not too long ago with the 75/76/85/86 before the 310/311 came along which are no better than the services they replaced (or in the case of the 311 cart around fresh air).