(29 Jul 2021, 2:03 pm)JP6004 wrote I think if people saw the data behind the changes they would understand. If services are vastly underused or one section of the route is always dead, then pointless running them to  carry fresh air.

No doubt we'll have another 925 scenario to maintain like for the 2 people that used the lost link.

I think it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

Pulling out of an area or changing a service is the easy option imo.

Promoting, advertising, encouraging growth and finding out what people need/want/expect is harder, but could ultimately be more rewarding and could fill the bus up a little bit more.

Organic growth from a fancy new decker or a 'cringe' advert on the rear of a Versa isn't guaranteed to grow patronage.
Sending it where passengers need/want to go at times and pricing which suits, isn't either. But is likely to lead to more success.

Based on what I've seen from the outside in and insistence on keeping routes they've had for decades, with a little tweak here and there, along with a bit of investment seems to be the option GNE keep taking.
It's almost the lazy option.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

Pulling out of an area or changing a service is the easy option imo.

Promoting, advertising, encouraging growth and finding out what people need/want/expect is harder, but could ultimately be more rewarding and could fill the bus up a little bit more.

Organic growth from a fancy new decker or a 'cringe' advert on the rear of a Versa isn't guaranteed to grow patronage.
Sending it where passengers need/want to go at times and pricing which suits, isn't either. But is likely to lead to more success.

Based on what I've seen from the outside in and insistence on keeping routes they've had for decades, with a little tweak here and there, along with a bit of investment seems to be the option GNE keep taking.
It's almost the lazy option.

I don't think you can say gne or any operator is being lazy, things have changed massively over the last 18 months and these changes, whilst drastic are needed. As I said earlier there is a number of new connections being added, and not put out yet is the new fare offers (eff 2nd August), which added to the success of the £1 evening fare might (and probably will) get more people on board over the summer and beyond.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote I think it's a bit of a double-edged sword.

Pulling out of an area or changing a service is the easy option imo.

Promoting, advertising, encouraging growth and finding out what people need/want/expect is harder, but could ultimately be more rewarding and could fill the bus up a little bit more.

Organic growth from a fancy new decker or a 'cringe' advert on the rear of a Versa isn't guaranteed to grow patronage.
Sending it where passengers need/want to go at times and pricing which suits, isn't either. But is likely to lead to more success.

Based on what I've seen from the outside in and insistence on keeping routes they've had for decades, with a little tweak here and there, along with a bit of investment seems to be the option GNE keep taking.
It's almost the lazy option.

But at the same time, if passengers arent using it, no matter how good you market it, then there is little point in running it. The X27....although allocated an MPD didnt survive, even after GNE/Nexus implored people to use it or loose it. You can bring water to the desert, but if they won't drink...

Wonder whats going on at percy main, they should withdraw the 311 and instead reroute both the 309 and 310 into hadrian Park as it adds an every 10 minute service between there and Newcastle aswell as creating new links to North Shields & the coast (Blyth, Seaton sluice and Whitley Bay)

So in a nutshell, is the X72 basically a normal 6 between Stanley & Dipton then via Hobson, Sunniside and Gateshead to Newcastle?

(29 Jul 2021, 3:15 pm)Stanleyone wrote I don't think you can say gne or any operator is being lazy, things have changed massively over the last 18 months and these changes, whilst drastic are needed. As I said earlier there is a number of new connections being added, and not put out yet is the new fare offers (eff 2nd August), which added to the success of the £1 evening fare might (and probably will) get more people on board over the summer and beyond.

How many changes are being forced by the CAZ and how many are commercial decisions?

The 6 has existed in various guises for a number of years and has had very little done with it in terms of promotion, marketing or anything else.
The axing of the entire Newcastle - Durham route and curtailment at Stanley, was only going to have a negative effect, as it reduced the chances of someone in say Craghead making that journey towards Tyneside.
Ditto for any through fares from say Dipton - Durham.
For those passengers who have a choice between a car or two buses, the decision may be heavily weighted towards the car.

I would be very concerned if decisions on services were being made as a result of what has happened over the last 18months.

(29 Jul 2021, 2:33 pm)JP6004 wrote Cant remember the last time the forum was so busy. Even the spikes in traffic when announcements/arrivals of new vehicles hasn't caused this much excitement 

I remember it getting busy before the July 2016 changes

(29 Jul 2021, 3:02 pm)Andreos1 wrote Based on what I've seen from the outside in and insistence on keeping routes they've had for decades, with a little tweak here and there, along with a bit of investment seems to be the option GNE keep taking.
It's almost the lazy option.

I think calling what they do with regards service changes a "lazy option" is very disrespectful to be honest.

I'd challenge anyone to come up with a fully costed network with timetables of the area they live in with the same number of vehicles the local operator uses

(29 Jul 2021, 3:23 pm)L469 YVK wrote So in a nutshell, is the X72 basically a normal 6 between Stanley & Dipton then via Hobson, Sunniside and Gateshead to Newcastle?

 

Stanleyone said interesting route, so what's the catch? 

My maths indicates no service for Tanfield Village.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:16 pm)JP6004 wrote But at the same time, if passengers arent using it, no matter how good you market it, then there is little point in running it. The X27....although allocated an MPD didnt survive, even after GNE/Nexus implored people to use it or loose it. You can bring water to the desert, but if they won't drink...

An entire new route, on an infrequent basis, with competition nearby isn't likely to be a roaring success.
If they looked to fill the gap created by the commercial changes and see what else could be achieved in an alternative guise, then I could have seen it working a lot better.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:23 pm)L469 YVK wrote So in a nutshell, is the X72 basically a normal 6 between Stanley & Dipton then via Hobson, Sunniside and Gateshead to Newcastle?

Its more a cobble together or various other routes, adds in new connections. Think there'll be raised eyebrows when it's actually released.

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(29 Jul 2021, 3:28 pm)DH9 wrote Stanleyone said interesting route, so what's the catch? 

My maths indicates no service for Tanfield Village.

Still being served.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:28 pm)DeltaMan wrote I think calling what they do with regards service changes a "lazy option" is very disrespectful to be honest.

I'd challenge anyone to come up with a fully costed network with timetables of the area they live in with the same number of vehicles the local operator uses

Where's the creativity?
Where do people in Annfield Plain or Catchgate work and spend their spare time?
Where are the links that take those people to those places, in an efficient, reliable and cost effective manner?

Or is it a case of the operator re-numbering what has existed for years, deciding where it will operate and at what times - to suit their needs?

If they are operating services which are innovative and creative, are taking the residents of Annfield Plain and Catchgate to their places of work and leisure and are offering a service which is reliable, efficient and cost effective, then I will apologise profusely.
If it's the latter, then I'm not sure 'lazy option' is disrespectful at all.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:25 pm)Andreos1 wrote How many changes are being forced by the CAZ and how many are commercial decisions?

The 6 has existed in various guises for a number of years and has had very little done with it in terms of promotion, marketing or anything else.
The axing of the entire Newcastle - Durham route and curtailment at Stanley, was only going to have a negative effect, as it reduced the chances of someone in say Craghead making that journey towards Tyneside.
Ditto for any through fares from say Dipton - Durham.
For those passengers who have a choice between a car or two buses, the decision may be heavily weighted towards the car.

I would be very concerned if decisions on services were being made as a result of what has happened over the last 18months.

Dipton to Durham never lost its direct route to Durham. In terms of craghead to Newcastle the old 43/44/44a route took an absolute age, it was great in terms of shift length, most folk would travel to Stanley and change onto the X30/X31 or via the 78 route to CLS then onto X21. 
Things have changed with home working and businesses closing down, so unfortunately these changes will partly be down to the last 18 months.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:40 pm)Stanleyone wrote Dipton to Durham never lost its direct route to Durham. In terms of craghead to Newcastle the old 43/44/44a route took an absolute age, it was great in terms of shift length, most folk would travel to Stanley and change onto the X30/X31 or via the 78 route to CLS then onto X21. 
Things have changed with home working and businesses closing down, so unfortunately these changes will partly be down to the last 18 months. 

Dunno about you, but I've not got a clue what is happening regarding covid19 and the future of homeworking/office working.

To base a commercial decision on something that has existed for 18months and might end next month (seeing homeworking end and retail pick back up at the Metrocentre), seems very short sighted.
I struggle to see how a commercial team can decide a route is no longer viable, because of the last 18months and totally skewed data.

They were certainly keen to have the Stanley to Metrocentre market sewn up when Stanley Taxi's had their MC Solo's.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:39 pm)Andreos1 wrote Where's the creativity?
Where do people in Annfield Plain or Catchgate work and spend their spare time?
Where are the links that take those people to those places, in an efficient, reliable and cost effective manner?

Or is it a case of the operator re-numbering what has existed for years, deciding where it will operate and at what times - to suit their needs?

If they are operating services which are innovative and creative, are taking the residents of Annfield Plain and Catchgate to their places of work and leisure and are offering a service which is reliable, efficient and cost effective, then I will apologise profusely.
If it's the latter, then I'm not sure 'lazy option' is disrespectful at all.

So what are your innovate and create solutions within a sensible budget for the good folk of Annfield Plain and Catchgate if the current or proposed network isn't good enough?

(29 Jul 2021, 3:46 pm)Andreos1 wrote Dunno about you, but I've not got a clue what is happening regarding covid19 and the future of homeworking/office working.

To base a commercial decision on something that has existed for 18months and might end next month (seeing homeworking end and retail pick back up at the Metrocentre), seems very short sighted.
I struggle to see how a commercial team can decide a route is no longer viable, because of the last 18months and totally skewed data.

They were certainly keen to have the Stanley to Metrocentre market sewn up when Stanley Taxi's had their MC Solo's.

I did say "partly". No doubt there'll be other data available to commercial and has there been input from local authorities on these changes?....on that I've no idea.

(29 Jul 2021, 3:01 pm)deanmachine wrote The changes in Sunderland at least seem mainly positive, I'm usually quite critical of the cuts in Sunderland but happy to see it go the other way this time. You'd hope so with the Sunderland District brand introduced too. Ditto with South Tyneside, positive stuff from what I've seen so far.

Thats good news then.

(29 Jul 2021, 4:00 pm)DeltaMan wrote So what are your innovate and create solutions within a sensible budget for the good folk of Annfield Plain and Catchgate if the current or proposed network isn't good enough?

There are all sorts of things that could be done differently. Many, many things. 
But seeing as I'm just an ordinary punter, who knows naff all, I'll leave it up to the operators to sort and leave their merry band of sycophants to pat them on the back on a job well done :wink:

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(29 Jul 2021, 4:06 pm)Stanleyone wrote I did say "partly". No doubt there'll be other data available to commercial and has there been input from local authorities on these changes?....on that I've no idea.

Agree, you did say partly. However, I do think using skewed data (whether full or in part) from the last 18months is daft.

I do think their hand has been forced by the CAZ and I do think they could have worked harder prior to the pandemic, making those hard improvements to the network rather than the changes we had seen.

As far as anyone's aware will anything replace the 1B Section through Lobley Hill.

(29 Jul 2021, 4:36 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote As far as anyone's aware will anything replace the 1B Section through Lobley Hill.

Im sure the 96 was mentioned somewhere

(29 Jul 2021, 4:39 pm)V514DFT wrote Im sure the 96 was mentioned somewhere

The 96 will go through Chiltern & Malvern Gardens won't it. Not Cragside Gardens (think that was the 95)

(29 Jul 2021, 4:41 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote The 96 will go through Chiltern & Malvern Gardens won't it. Not Cragside Gardens (think that was the 95)

Not sure mate,i just know the 96 was mentioned

(28 Jul 2021, 9:01 pm)Washingtonian wrote Has anyone heard anything of any changes to services in the Washington area?

Since most other changes have been leaked now, having seen the Washington Briefing:
Little Pinks network is being simplified - the current 81/82/83/84/85/86 are replaced by:
new 82 linking Birtley, Portmeads, Ayton Dunnock Drive, Lambton, Galleries, Sainsburys, Glebe, Washington Village and Barmston Court every 30 minutes - Team Farm and Waterview Park are additionally served Monday to Saturday daytime
new 84 linking Rickleton, Harraton, Ayton, Lambton, Galleries, Sainsburys, Biddick, Barmston Waskerely Road, Barmston Village Centre, Peel and Spout Lane to Concord every 20 minutes - effectively replacing the 81 and parts of the 83/84. Heworth to Concord via Lingley Lane, Follingslby, Usworth and Donwell is withdrawn without replacement
new 85 linking Concord, Oxclose, Galleries and Sainsburys every 20 minutes (interworking with the 84 at Concord) - additionally serving The Drive between Concord and Donwell in place of the current 84
Washington will lose operation of the 5 to Deptford while taking on operation of the 26 from Riverside - the 26 will be extended to Lukes Lane via Hebburn replacing the 9 and reinstating the old 88 service (H1/H2 withdrawn as a result), the 26 will interwork with the 50 in South Shields (5 will interwork with the 9 at Jarrow)
One X1 an hour will be extended from Easington Lane to Peterlee via South Hetton, and one an hour to Dalton Park

Where are the extra StreetDecks going to come from for the X1? Only thing I can think is a reduction to every 15 mins from every 12 mins perhaps? Likely wrong no doubt.

26 is an interesting one. Will that likely mean 6043-48 ending up on the 25? (continue on fleet changes thread if needed)

I'll wait and see what GNE say,might give me a better understanding

(29 Jul 2021, 5:18 pm)L469 YVK wrote Where are the extra StreetDecks going to come from for the X1? Only thing I can think is a reduction to every 15 mins from every 12 mins perhaps? Likely wrong no doubt.

Could see a reduction elsewhere on the X-Lines network?

Jesus that X1 sounds like a hell of a trip if it's true

(29 Jul 2021, 5:19 pm)V514DFT wrote I'll wait and see what GNE say,might give me a better understanding

MG has done a fb session and it'll be next week possibly thurs/Fri when they are released to the public giving 4 clear weeks.

What every change that's happing.

Do we know of any schools contracts yet or is it to early

X20 to serve Doxford Int & 55 Withdrawn Maybe (Would be replaced between Houghton & Peterlee by X1)