(30 Aug 2021, 1:10 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Wiill all the PDF versions of the new timetables be uploaded by Sunday?
Also which service change does anyone think will be reversed first?

X72

Pressure will be brought to bear to restore some sort of service between Stanley and Gateshead not going via Catchgate, Annfield Plain and Tanfield.

Also, people in Annfield Plain will want a Metrocentre service restored.

It's annoying as I'll benefit from the X72.

(30 Aug 2021, 9:23 pm)Drifter60 wrote Well the obvious ones, will be 730, 643, 734. They’ll not last as we’ve seen with the 938 & 925. The 938 is been reversed though? I think I’m right in suggesting that the 38 is going back to what it ran previously therefore no need for the 938? The 925 though is just withdrawn. I’d hazard a guess that Service 30 will go back the way it is now, one to Lanchester, one terminating early at Quaking Houses, withdrawing the 730.

Have I missed something here but what is the purpose of this new 734 service? Looking at Google maps, it looks like this route is already covered by the 34. Can't understand how this can be run commercially when only a handful of people will use it no doubt. It's the same as parts of the 23. I know this isn't commercially ran but I have never understood some parts of this service and how this has been funded for years. I've never understood why it serves several side streets in Springwell and Donwell carrying more or less fresh air all day, when the main bus stops in these areas are within short walking distance!

Don't get me wrong I am quite happy myself with most of the changes coming into effect from Sunday, but how is it fair for GNE and other operators to expect people of certain areas to walk further to a bus stop, while other areas get what they want? Its like Lambton, they are gaining yet another bus during the day and another two on an evening when the changes come into effect, and this is an area that is over saturated with bus services. During the day they will have two buses an hour with Service 2, two buses an hour with the 50, two an hour with the 82 and three an hour with the 84. Thats 9 an hour! On evenings and Sundays there will be six buses an hour, up from the current four! How is this fair when parts of Donwell will no longer have any bus service. Coach Road Estate is a big estate that gets only one bus an hour during Monday - Saturday daytimes, and yet again there has been no thought for them! I'm sure I've said it before but years ago we had much better all round service coverage, but step entrance vehicles. Now we have easy access vehicles but poorer service coverage in certain areas! No wonder people complain really!

(31 Aug 2021, 1:00 am)Washingtonian wrote Have I missed something here but what is the purpose of this new 734 service? Looking at Google maps, it looks like this route is already covered by the 34. Can't understand how this can be run commercially when only a handful of people will use it no doubt. It's the same as parts of the 23. I know this isn't commercially ran but I have never understood some parts of this service and how this has been funded for years. I've never understood why it serves several side streets in Springwell and Donwell carrying more or less fresh air all day, when the main bus stops in these areas are within short walking distance!

Don't get me wrong I am quite happy myself with most of the changes coming into effect from Sunday, but how is it fair for GNE and other operators to expect people of certain areas to walk further to a bus stop, while other areas get what they want? Its like Lambton, they are gaining yet another bus during the day and another two on an evening when the changes come into effect, and this is an area that is over saturated with bus services. During the day they will have two buses an hour with Service 2, two buses an hour with the 50, two an hour with the 82 and three an hour with the 84. Thats 9 an hour! On evenings and Sundays there will be six buses an hour, up from the current four! How is this fair when parts of Donwell will no longer have any bus service. Coach Road Estate is a big estate that gets only one bus an hour during Monday - Saturday daytimes, and yet again there has been no thought for them! I'm sure I've said it before but years ago we had much better all round service coverage, but step entrance vehicles. Now we have easy access vehicles but poorer service coverage in certain areas! No wonder people complain really!

734 is replacing the 34 around pelaw Estate. In my opinion the 34 was well used when I worked at CLS but that was over 5 years ago

(31 Aug 2021, 2:47 am)Stanleyone wrote 734 is replacing the 34 around pelaw Estate. In my opinion the 34 was well used when I worked at CLS but that was over 5 years ago

Ah right thanks for that. When I looked at the bus stops around Pelaw Estate on Google maps they have both the 34 and 734 as serving them. Perhaps the 28A should be extended from Perkinsville to serve Pelaw Estate and then on to Chester. I can't see the 734 lasting long serving only two places.

So where are the rest of the 15 & 17' plate streetlites going?

(30 Aug 2021, 11:24 pm)Wybus wrote I’d love to know what Nexus’s stand point is on that, there is literally no reason why the racks can’t be reintroduced now Covid restrictions have been removed.

They could open the Gateshead travel centre unmanned and use the ones in there as well. I imagine it is pretty doubtful that that unit will ever get a commercial tenant considering the number of shops already present around the Interchange, so it’s just sitting there empty

They seem to jump straight to eliminating the activity, rather than controlling the risk. There are several examples of this:

- Timetable racks (as you mention) have been removed since the uncertainty around the start of COVID-19. This is excessive, as I imagine very few people pick up and put back timetables. An even smaller percentage of those people are likely to have COVID.
- Toilets have been removed from use at Nexus managed bus stations; Gateshead and South Shields spring to mind, but I believe it is also the case at Park Lane. My understanding is that at South Shields, they're not even available for bus driver use, given that there's a portable welfare room in place at Shields Bus Station. This out of the four makes the least sense, because at a time we were all told to wash our hands more frequently, Nexus decide to close off access to do that...
- Seating has been removed en-mass at some locations. Gateshead springs to mind. Again, this is excessive and far beyond reasonable controlling of risk. The seating is yet to be replaced.
- Travel Shops may have been in decline over the past couple of years, but Nexus made the decision during a pandemic to close the remaining ones, including the South Shields bus station that opened just a year previous. Again excessive, and at a point that they're probably needed more than ever, to get people back out and using public transport.

I really worry about the future under an enhanced partnership and a world of bus service improvement plans, when we have a PTE that is so backward thinking.

(31 Aug 2021, 12:41 pm)Washingtonian wrote Ah right thanks for that. When I looked at the bus stops around Pelaw Estate on Google maps they have both the 34 and 734 as serving them. Perhaps the 28A should be extended from Perkinsville to serve Pelaw Estate and then on to Chester. I can't see the 734 lasting long serving only two places.

Bizarrely, they have the 28 running on to the 734 from Chester and back on to the 28 as it returns.
Not as one service, opening up new links, but as two separate services.
Travelling from Pelton Fell to Pelaw to save walking up the huge steps by the viaduct? Two tickets mate. Even though its the same vehicle.

You've then got the Chester Town service that turns left opposite Pelaw Estate and in to Hilda Park.
Pretty sure they could have squeezed an extra few hundred yards out of it, without it affecting the timetable too much.

(31 Aug 2021, 2:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Bizarrely, they have the 28 running on to the 734 from Chester and back on to the 28 as it returns.
Not as one service, opening up new links, but as two separate services.
Travelling from Pelton Fell to Pelaw to save walking up the huge steps by the viaduct? Two tickets mate. Even though its the same vehicle.

You've then got the Chester Town service that turns left opposite Pelaw Estate and in to Hilda Park.
Pretty sure they could have squeezed an extra few hundred yards out of it, without it affecting the timetable too much.

Ah yes I see what you mean about the 28 running onto the 734. That is a very strange decision and surely they could merge the two services into one.

Now that you've mentioned the Chester Town service I wonder can GNE not extend this service to serve the estates in Barley Mow and Birtley? Either that or can they not operate a seperate commercially ran Birtley town service to replace parts of the 23?

(31 Aug 2021, 3:04 pm)Washingtonian wrote Ah yes I see what you mean about the 28 running onto the 734. That is a very strange decision and surely they could merge the two services into one.

Now that you've mentioned the Chester Town service I wonder can GNE not extend this service to serve the estates in Barley Mow and Birtley? Either that or can they not operate a seperate commercially ran Birtley town service to replace parts of the 23?

They used to run a 734 that ran Chester - Durham Rd - Birtley then as is 'new' 734 but even in the days of the Metrorider minis it was carrying fresh air. It lasted as recentley as to when the original Solos came into the fleet (late 90s early 00s)

They could feasibly route that through Barley Mow but then I'm not sure where you'd terminate the 23 as it still needs to serve Birtley Town Centre (you could potentially turn left at Station Lane and loop round Birtley Lane and down Harras Bank)

(31 Aug 2021, 2:27 pm)Andreos1 wrote Bizarrely, they have the 28 running on to the 734 from Chester and back on to the 28 as it returns.
Not as one service, opening up new links, but as two separate services.
Travelling from Pelton Fell to Pelaw to save walking up the huge steps by the viaduct? Two tickets mate. Even though its the same vehicle.

You've then got the Chester Town service that turns left opposite Pelaw Estate and in to Hilda Park.
Pretty sure they could have squeezed an extra few hundred yards out of it, without it affecting the timetable too much.

In the years I worked at CLS the only destination that the folk of pelaw estate went to was chester Town centre. I'm pretty sure nobody travels between Pelton Fell and Pelaw even when the same bus done both the 28 & 34 on a Sunday. As for the town service being diverted to cover pelaw, it's a DCC service, if it could've been done it would have.

(31 Aug 2021, 12:56 pm)Adrian wrote They seem to jump straight to eliminating the activity, rather than controlling the risk. There are several examples of this:

- Timetable racks (as you mention) have been removed since the uncertainty around the start of COVID-19. This is excessive, as I imagine very few people pick up and put back timetables. An even smaller percentage of those people are likely to have COVID.
- Toilets have been removed from use at Nexus managed bus stations; Gateshead and South Shields spring to mind, but I believe it is also the case at Park Lane. My understanding is that at South Shields, they're not even available for bus driver use, given that there's a portable welfare room in place at Shields Bus Station. This out of the four makes the least sense, because at a time we were all told to wash our hands more frequently, Nexus decide to close off access to do that...
- Seating has been removed en-mass at some locations. Gateshead springs to mind. Again, this is excessive and far beyond reasonable controlling of risk. The seating is yet to be replaced.
- Travel Shops may have been in decline over the past couple of years, but Nexus made the decision during a pandemic to close the remaining ones, including the South Shields bus station that opened just a year previous. Again excessive, and at a point that they're probably needed more than ever, to get people back out and using public transport.

I really worry about the future under an enhanced partnership and a world of bus service improvement plans, when we have a PTE that is so backward thinking.

That wouldnt of helped towards the shortage of bus drivers either atm cus of the pandemic,and i bet the poor souls were just told 'use sanitiser',so i guess Four Lane Ends will be out of use to drivers aswell?

(31 Aug 2021, 3:27 pm)Ambassador wrote They used to run a 734 that ran Chester - Durham Rd - Birtley then as is 'new' 734 but even in the days of the Metrorider minis it was carrying fresh air. It lasted as recentley as to when the original Solos came into the fleet (late 90s early 00s)

They could feasibly route that through Barley Mow but then I'm not sure where you'd terminate the 23 as it still needs to serve Birtley Town Centre (you could potentially turn left at Station Lane and loop round Birtley Lane and down Harras Bank)

Yes that's how I would terminate the 23, and I would reduce it to hourly if a new Birtley town service was provided in the way of a new service or through the extension of another service.

A Chester/Birtley town service could go: -

From Chester le Street

Barley Mow - Dorset Avenue
Vigo Bridge
Portobello
Northside Estate
Birtley Crematorium
Lansbury Drive
Birtley Town Centre
Drum Industrial Estate
Back to Chester le Street

(31 Aug 2021, 3:31 pm)Stanleyone wrote In the years I worked at CLS the only destination that the folk of pelaw estate went to was chester Town centre. I'm pretty sure nobody travels between Pelton Fell and Pelaw even when the same bus done both the 28 & 34 on a Sunday. As for the town service being diverted to cover pelaw, it's a DCC service, if it could've been done it would have.

Whether the folk of Pelaw Estate travel beyond front st or not, creating a barrier, such as having two different route numbers, isn't going to help encourage use between the two points - even with Pelton Fell being part of the catchment area for the CoE School just off Pelaw Bank. 

When you were based at Chester, how many cars did you see coming from under the viaduct, before taking a left and left again up Pelaw Bank? 
What about the times you were coming down Pelaw Bank and got stuck behind all those cars trying to take a right before the mini roundabout and forcing their way out at North Burns towards the viaduct? 

It costs the operator absolutely nothing to have the 28 extend to Pelaw Estate and create new, through links. No matter how insignificant it may appear. 

I posted the following elsewhere on the forum today.

 Yes, it is just one example - but it is possibly a snapshot of the issues commuters face in that because there's never been an established, regular connection between two points, operators think that should never be a regular connection between the two points.

Except, maybe there should be. Or at least something that is better than what we have now.

It's about more than just the good folk of Pelaw Estate and Chester front street.

(31 Aug 2021, 12:56 pm)Adrian wrote They seem to jump straight to eliminating the activity, rather than controlling the risk. There are several examples of this:

- Timetable racks (as you mention) have been removed since the uncertainty around the start of COVID-19. This is excessive, as I imagine very few people pick up and put back timetables. An even smaller percentage of those people are likely to have COVID.
- Toilets have been removed from use at Nexus managed bus stations; Gateshead and South Shields spring to mind, but I believe it is also the case at Park Lane. My understanding is that at South Shields, they're not even available for bus driver use, given that there's a portable welfare room in place at Shields Bus Station. This out of the four makes the least sense, because at a time we were all told to wash our hands more frequently, Nexus decide to close off access to do that...
- Seating has been removed en-mass at some locations. Gateshead springs to mind. Again, this is excessive and far beyond reasonable controlling of risk. The seating is yet to be replaced.
- Travel Shops may have been in decline over the past couple of years, but Nexus made the decision during a pandemic to close the remaining ones, including the South Shields bus station that opened just a year previous. Again excessive, and at a point that they're probably needed more than ever, to get people back out and using public transport.

I really worry about the future under an enhanced partnership and a world of bus service improvement plans, when we have a PTE that is so backward thinking.

Couldn't agree more and it's a real shame.  Back in the early to mid 90s I used to find the PTE pretty decent - promoting all forms of public transport, making info accessible etc.  Something happened not long after they became Nexus when they became entirely Metro focused (not dereg - a good 15 years or so after that) and it has been downhill since then.  They are now utterly pointless and in some cases appear to undermine rather than promote public transport.  Given the lack of contribution they make, I'd happily see them disbanded and leave it to the five LAs individually who let's face it couldn't do a worse job.

On a related note, has anyone seen any of the new timetables on any GNE buses yet?  Less than a week to go now for the changes "supported by full printed leaflets"...

(31 Aug 2021, 8:21 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote On a related note, has anyone seen any of the new timetables on any GNE buses yet?  Less than a week to go now for the changes "supported by full printed leaflets"...

I’ve seen them, but only half (200k copies) of the c. 90 new leaflets are actually on buses - due to issues at the printers.

So they aren’t invisible, and they do exist (no need for the sarcastic remarks - they’re becoming tiresome!) - don’t forget we’re still living in a global pandemic putting huge pressure on suppliers.

All expected to be back by next week and have been drip fed onto buses in five batches so far over the last three weeks.

Nexus contracts were only issued last week for evening journeys in Sunderland, Washington and North Tyneside which has resulted in delays to these leaflets and/or area guides being produced - again, factors outside of GNE’s control due to short notice tenders and last minute awards.

One of the first batches can be seen below:

https://twitter.com/dan3942/status/14272...62690?s=21


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(31 Aug 2021, 8:35 pm)Dan wrote I’ve seen them, but only half (200k copies) of the c. 90 new leaflets are actually on buses - due to issues at the printers.


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That's good to know - I genuinely havent seen one on a single vehicle for weeks so I must just be very unlucky, or they must be getting snapped up quickly, which I guess bodes well for future ridership.

(31 Aug 2021, 8:44 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote That's good to know - I genuinely havent seen one on a single vehicle for weeks so I must just be very unlucky, or they must be getting snapped up quickly, which I guess bodes well for future ridership.

I think you’ve been very unlucky and been on the buses of the 45 services which haven’t come back from print yet - they definitely do exist though.

Unlike your example with Stagecoach, leaflets are being re-produced (updated with better maps, fares info etc) regardless of whether the route has changed or not. Just because there is no change doesn’t make that route any less worthy of a printed timetable leaflet.

Frustratingly, the print process might therefore mean that a service with no changes (if it is only a small concentina fold leaflet) actually comes back before something like the 8/78 (which is a huge map fold and quite time-consuming and complicated to print) - especially as they would have been produced more quickly given there wasn’t any change.


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(31 Aug 2021, 8:58 pm)Dan wrote Unlike your example with Stagecoach, leaflets are being re-produced (updated with better maps, fares info etc) regardless of whether the route has changed or not. Just because there is no change doesn’t make that route any less worthy of a printed timetable leaflet.

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Agree with you on this sentiment - if the GNE leaflets were more readily available I'd wholeheartedly agree Stagecoach had a thing or two to learn from GNE on this. I'm no advocate of the argument that leaflets are only needed for major changes (though I believe that was GNE's position from mid 2017 to mid 2019 ish and one I'm glad to see they have retrenched from) and remain hopeful Stagecoach will reinstate theirs fully soon.

On the subject of timetables, does anyone know if the Washington or Peterlee locals ever received printed leaflets from 2020 onward?  The most recent I found were 2019 (but only 85/86), back in 2017 for the other Washington locals and 2016 for Peterlee network - but suspect I missed some more recently?

Finally - anyone know why there are a few different styles of leaflets?  The road stripe style introduced in 2020 seemed to be replaced in the Oct 2020 issues with the likes of the 21 and 56 aving coloured corners but no stripes - yet the likes of 8/78  continued in the road stripe style but also issued Oct 2020.  It seems from photos the new style thus far are also back to the road stripe (excluding Xlines which I get are different).  Then there's the Berries 2 which is different again.  Yet the Q3 which has a wavey livery does stick to the road stripe design leaflet whereas the 53/54 which has similar livery doesnt.  Do the inconsistent leaflet styles mean anything in terms of the services they relate to (X lines aside) or just random/trying different designs?

What services are GNE taking over from Nexus/SC or GCT?

(31 Aug 2021, 10:24 pm)Keeiajs wrote What services are GNE taking over from Nexus/SC or GCT?

18/18A (Walker to Four Lane Ends) Evening and Sundays 
19 (Northumberland Park to North Shields) Evening and Sundays 
That's all I know off

(31 Aug 2021, 10:28 pm)Train8261 wrote 18/18A (Walker to Four Lane Ends) Evening and Sundays 
19 (Northumberland Park to North Shields) Evening and Sundays 
That's all I know off

Washington 82/83/84 
Sunderland 39? 135/136?

(30 Aug 2021, 1:59 pm)Ambassador wrote The main issue is Newcastle City Council own very little land in the city and developing what little land they own into a bus station is not in their economic interest.

nobody is going to do park and ride because it’s just not appealing. It’s not York or Durham, it’s big enough to cope with traffic.

If you’re used to undercover brightly secure Eldon Sq, then Market St East is a 2nd rate drop off, it’s nowhere near St James for a matchday, it’s a canny hike for the old dears heading to M&S and at the moment it requires passing across 2 busy roads from Northumberland St

Yeah totally agreed tbh with you. You'll never promote people over imo not to mention that people going to Newcastle will actually want to buy stuff so hauling loads of shopping onto buses etc just isn't ideal in comparison to Durham and York which are both touristy places. Agreed with Market Street East aswell tbh it's a horrible place to stand aswell tbh. 

On the discussion after which is going to go first the 62 between Sunderland and Easington imo an hourly bus route with no real reason to use it as it's a the weird bus and everyone will stick on the 60 or one of the other buses doing other parts of the routes (65 / 55 / X1).

(30 Aug 2021, 2:47 pm)Stanleyone wrote Yes, the security guards lock individual doors after the last bus pulls off stand. Shutters in place to stop anyone entering the shopping centre.

It's a bit of a shame that the N21 has to do that as from a passenger point of view, I can't imagine Market Street East to be the most pleasant place to wait for a bus at 3 in the morning.

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(01 Sep 2021, 8:17 am)big mac wrote It's a bit of a shame that the N21 has to do that as from a passenger point of view, I can't imagine Market Street East to be the most pleasant place to wait for a bus at 3 in the morning. 

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In fairness Eldon Square would be worse imo. The bus station itself might be nice but Percy Street which I'd assume would be the only way in is an absolute dive or via Haymarket which is also a dump with druggies.

Personally if I had a choice I'd rather get on at Market Street in the evening heading towards Blyth than Haymarket as you feel trapped with only 2 entrances at both ends and no-one round half the time. Imagine Eldon Square being the same.

It stops outside TJ Hughes aswell which at least there's some life and police presence around.

(01 Sep 2021, 8:31 am)Storx wrote In fairness Eldon Square would be worse imo. The bus station itself might be nice but Percy Street which I'd assume would be the only way in is an absolute dive or via Haymarket which is also a dump with druggies.

Personally if I had a choice I'd rather get on at Market Street in the evening heading towards Blyth than Haymarket as you feel trapped with only 2 entrances at both ends and no-one round half the time. Imagine Eldon Square being the same.

I wouldn't call Percy Street a dive. It's far far nicer than Pilgrim St/Market St 

Not sure how you feel trapped in what is essentially an outdoor bus station with a roof. Market St East (where buses will stop) is next to a half way house, a hostel and a drugs dependency walk in centre plus a  a raft of delapidated buildings

(01 Sep 2021, 8:35 am)Ambassador wrote I wouldn't call Percy Street a dive. It's far far nicer than Pilgrim St/Market St 

Not sure how you feel trapped in what is essentially an outdoor bus station with a roof. Market St East (where buses will stop) is next to a half way house, a hostel and a drugs dependency walk in centre plus a  a raft of delapidated buildings

Just nowhere to go if your in the middle stands and there's no-one round so your isolated as it's eeriely quiet. The seats outside the Junction is a right haven for druggies and alcoholics aswell qlaa they go down the back alley behind M&S. It's been happening for years but nothing gets done about it and they tend to wander into Haymarket begging for money etc. Quite intimidating when your there by yourself. The alleyway from Northumberland Street to Haymarket is one of the worst streets in Newcastle imo. 

Least at Market Street outside TJ Hughes, I wouldn't use the other stop, you have people around and there's businesses open so it's a bit more lively ie McDonalds and The Mushroom who both have bouncers. Haymarket is alright until M&S shuts then its not a nice place imo and I have no choice as the next bus stop is South Gosforth.

It's hard to explain but if you ever go in after 9pm, Sun - Thurs you'll see what I mean.

65 to be branded as East Durham Explorer

(01 Sep 2021, 8:31 am)Storx wrote In fairness Eldon Square would be worse imo. The bus station itself might be nice but Percy Street which I'd assume would be the only way in is an absolute dive or via Haymarket which is also a dump with druggies.

Personally if I had a choice I'd rather get on at Market Street in the evening heading towards Blyth than Haymarket as you feel trapped with only 2 entrances at both ends and no-one round half the time. Imagine Eldon Square being the same.

It stops outside TJ Hughes aswell which at least there's some life and police presence around.

Personally I think if the N21 can't go in to Eldon Square then the stop at St Andrews Church would be better than Market Street East as that's near the Gate and the Premier Inn etc so there's likely to be more people around there. Also the regular 21 serves this stop during the day anyway so this would at least standardise the route a little bit more rather than have it go from somewhere totally different to the daytime route.

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(01 Sep 2021, 11:52 am)big mac wrote Personally I think if the N21 can't go in to Eldon Square then the stop at St Andrews Church would be better than Market Street East as that's near the Gate and the Premier Inn etc so there's likely to be more people around there.  Also the regular 21 serves this stop during the day anyway so this would at least standardise the route a little bit more rather than have it go from somewhere totally different to the daytime route.

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Not a bad shout that really then do Newgate Street as usual and you've covered the Bigg Market with the stops outside the cathedral. Shouldn't take too much longer either really.

Must admit Market Street is a bit weird but wonder if it's because it's out the way for its layover so there's no drunken yobs banging on windows etc which could be a problem outside The Gate.

(01 Sep 2021, 12:14 pm)Storx wrote Not a bad shout that really then do Newgate Street as usual and you've covered the Bigg Market with the stops outside the cathedral. Shouldn't take too much longer either really.

Must admit Market Street is a bit weird but wonder if it's because it's out the way for its layover so there's no drunken yobs banging on windows etc which could be a problem outside The Gate.

With the layover, possibly that is the reason, although the layover time is only three minutes. So, if it did stop at St Andrew's Church it would probably just be coming in, picking the passengers up and going straight back out again rather than being parked up at the stop for a long period.

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