(02 Sep 2021, 8:48 pm)JP6004 wrote MG did say that the 25 would receive refreshed DD later in year

I'd imagine G2's

(02 Sep 2021, 8:44 pm)Keeiajs wrote I don't think the 25 needs double deckers, Versa's are perfectly fine But they do need Euro 6.

They really do, in rush hour sometimes the Versa's get completely full. IMO it would be the best if they brought back the 16 plate Streetdecks onto the 25.

(02 Sep 2021, 9:06 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote They really do, in rush hour sometimes the Versa's get completely full. IMO it would be the best if they brought back the 16 plate Streetdecks onto the 25.

In rush hour, that is the same for many services. Don't go upgrading all them to double deckers.

Mod note: Moved posts around the Newcastle Clean Air Zone to this thread -
Newcastle Clean Air Zone: services which need to be upgraded

(02 Sep 2021, 7:16 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I personally don't mind an older vehicle (say 15 years old) as long as it meets the specification promised on the route.

If I'm getting the X21, I expect to get a bus with high-back seats, WiFi, USB ports and tables as that is what is advertised. Anything less I consider to be false advertising.
If you go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac, and get given a saver menu hamburger, you wouldn't be happy. If they turn around and say "well, it's still food", you'd tell them to shove it. So why is it alright for an operator to turn around and says "it's still a bus" and that's the end of it?

As for the likes of the Olympians, the reason they're still 'solid as a rock' is because people will have spent far more than the vehicle is worth restoring them, and keeping them on the road!

I understand what you are saying about the specification of a bus matching the expectations of a route and getting what's advertised and I never said anything to suggest otherwise! However, some people seem to be a bit obsessed with saying "this service needs new buses because it's currently using buses that are 10 or 11 years old etc". And I'm sure people on here have said stuff like the Versas need withdrawing because the are 09 plates. That's just ridculous! Those buses have plenty of life in them and cost a lot of money to buy in the first place so theres nothing wrong at all with them being in service for around 20 years or so. Of course every bus company needs to upgrade it's vehicles every so often, but not as often as some people suggest.

Not trying to be funny here but going off your second point most GNE buses have high backed seats, WiFi, USB ports etc. Even the older buses have had upgrades to accomodate such things, such as the Versas that have gone onto the Sunderland District Berries.! So what does the age matter and why are people so obsessed whether a bus is new or not? Go North East have always looked after their fleet very well with regular repainting (as we all know!), regular refurbishments and regular maintainence etc. As well as the stuff you already mentioned, as long as the buses provided are clean, tidy, smart, well maintained, safe, warm and comfortable what does the bus's age matter? Buses that do tend to look untidy in the fleet tend to be the ones they are planning on withdrawing very soon and rarely turn up on the major routes from what I can see.

As for your point about the Olympians, some of them were still in service with the likes of Refearn Travel and Herbert's travel as recently as 2018 so they must be solid!

(02 Sep 2021, 7:32 pm)Storx wrote I think it's more about downgrading rather than age. Like I live up Blyth way and we have the Gemini's and tbh they're perfectly fine and I have no problems with them. Now if you gave us brand new buses with tables which have a nicer interior etc. I wouldn't be too happy to then get the Gemini's back a year later while the other Blyth bus routes keep there brand new buses because they want to move them to Ashington for the X21/X22 instead while I still pay the same price as the other punters with their brand new buses (which would be actually more here because of Coastliner and Cramlington discounts).

Like in your case you didn't want the B9's to go but next year you probably wouldn't want them back either when you've had brand new Streetdecks for the past 2 year.

Also whoever mentioned the old Metrobuses/Olympians in the 00's they were mid 80's buses if I'm right so no older than the 03/04 plate Omnidekkas running around now.

Yeah as I mentioned in my earlier post I can understand why people would be annoyed to have new buses taken off their service when they've not been on there long etc. I don't deny that must be frustrating. If a bus is bought new for a service it should be bought to last on that service for a decent period of time. To be honest the age of a bus has never bothered me personally at all just and It's more the way vehicles are presented that I look for. To be honest I love getting on an older bus when it is kept immaculate. I personally am more satisfied when I see bus companies take real pride in their fleet. Weardale are very much like this as were OK Travel. The likes of Redby on the other hand were the total opposite most of the time. That was a company that bought a lot of knackered and untidy vehicles and they could never seem to decide on their livery until nearer the end of their days!

The last A-reg Metrobuses GNE hadwould have been aorund 23 years old I think when they were withdrawn. I think it was around mid to late 2006 when they left the fleet. The last Nationals were getting on for 30 year old as some of them were V and W regs, so they would have been around 26/27.

Change the 55 to 36, it follows the route from Sunderland basically then goes to Peterlee, and I don't really like the number 55. 36 just seems nicer.

(03 Sep 2021, 1:19 am)Washingtonian wrote I understand what you are saying about the specification of a bus matching the expectations of a route and getting what's advertised and I never said anything to suggest otherwise! However, some people seem to be a bit obsessed with saying "this service needs new buses because it's currently using buses that are 10 or 11 years old etc". And I'm sure people on here have said stuff like the Versas need withdrawing because the are 09 plates. That's just ridculous! Those buses have plenty of life in them and cost a lot of money to buy in the first place so theres nothing wrong at all with them being in service for around 20 years or so. Of course every bus company needs to upgrade it's vehicles every so often, but not as often as some people suggest.

Not trying to be funny here but going off your second point most GNE buses have high backed seats, WiFi, USB ports etc. Even the older buses have had upgrades to accomodate such things, such as the Versas that have gone onto the Sunderland District Berries.! So what does the age matter and why are people so obsessed whether a bus is new or not? Go North East have always looked after their fleet very well with regular repainting (as we all know!), regular refurbishments and regular maintainence etc. As well as the stuff you already mentioned, as long as the buses provided are clean, tidy, smart, well maintained, safe, warm and comfortable what does the bus's age matter? Buses that do tend to look untidy in the fleet tend to be the ones they are planning on withdrawing very soon and rarely turn up on the major routes from what I can see.

As for your point about the Olympians, some of them were still in service with the likes of Refearn Travel and Herbert's travel as recently as 2018 so they must be solid!

I don't think I was disagreeing with you (was I? I can't remember).

As I've said before, if they upgrade an Omnidekka to X-lines spec, I'd have absolutely no issues with them running it on the X21.
Would I be happy if they complete replaced the 67 plate B5s with 15+ year old Omnidekkas?
Definitely not, but at least they'd be keeping to the specification promised!

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So since service 59 and 204/204A won’t be under the Peterlee Purples brand, which depot going to operate these services, unless Peterlee are keeping at least 1 cooperative colours solo? For these services


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Seems to be 3 buses tracking as the 65 this morning (and have been all week, looking back), despite the service not starting until 5th September... https://bustimes.org/services/65-seaham-...2021-09-03

(03 Sep 2021, 9:04 am)Adrian wrote Seems to be 3 buses tracking as the 65 this morning (and have been all week, looking back), despite the service not starting until 5th September... https://bustimes.org/services/65-seaham-...2021-09-03

Same thing has happened with the 1. Started sometime last week

(03 Sep 2021, 9:04 am)Adrian wrote Seems to be 3 buses tracking as the 65 this morning (and have been all week, looking back), despite the service not starting until 5th September... https://bustimes.org/services/65-seaham-...2021-09-03

Looks like bustimes is getting the numbers mixed up and is showing the 265 as 65 (it's the same registration).

Going to be a busy weekend for fleet movements.

I wonder what branding the 643, 730 and 734 will receive?

Whickham Wanderer? Chester Clipper? Quakies Quaker? Burnhope Bouncer?

What buses will they use on it

(03 Sep 2021, 10:12 am)Storx wrote Looks like bustimes is getting the numbers mixed up and is showing the 265 as 65 (it's the same registration).

Bustimes literally takes whatever Go North East are feeding to BODS.

You can see here that even the GNE app is reporting it, so its very likely what the ticket machine is transmitting...



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I’m getting confused , on the 38 pdf timetable, top part of timetable saying the 38A goes from docks to tunstall with the 38 doing dock circle, but lower part of the timetable it has the 38 running from tunstall to docks with the 38a doing dock circle, is that right? As I thought the 38 will be doing the full route with the 38A just doing the other circle route around the docks


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(03 Sep 2021, 3:16 pm)cbma06 wrote I’m getting confused , on the 38 pdf timetable, top part of timetable saying the 38A goes from docks to tunstall  with the 38 doing dock circle, but lower part of the timetable it has the 38 running from tunstall to docks with the 38a doing dock circle, is that right? As I thought the 38 will be doing the full route with the 38A just doing the other circle route around the docks


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Must admit I was confused as to what the 38 is doing and what the difference was to the 38A. The PDF shows the 38A but the main embedded timetable doesn’t show any runs to the docks or any 38A buses.

Just noticed that according the timetable on the Nexus website states that the 83 is being binned but the 83A is being kept,seems a bit odd that the standard service is being withdrawn,but the 'A' variant is being kept

(02 Sep 2021, 9:06 pm)transportintyneandwear wrote They really do, in rush hour sometimes the Versa's get completely full. IMO it would be the best if they brought back the 16 plate Streetdecks onto the 25.

Yes that's a good idea. It should be remembered that the current 25 is essentially two routes combined into one with the old 25/X25 and the old Coaster 1 route. In the past both of those services were normally operated by double deckers.

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(03 Sep 2021, 6:09 pm)V514DFT wrote Just noticed that according the timetable on the Nexus website states that the 83 is being binned but the 83A is being kept,seems a bit odd that the standard service is being withdrawn,but the 'A' variant is being kept

Odd, but not unprecedented.

The Nexus boards for the evening 82/84 doesn't seem to match what is happening during the day at all. Evening 82s are curtailed at Washington Galleries, arriving at xx.11 and xx.41, then appear to go out with an 85 to Concord, which then does an 84 or 84A from Concord to Rickleton.

(03 Sep 2021, 6:09 pm)V514DFT wrote Just noticed that according the timetable on the Nexus website states that the 83 is being binned but the 83A is being kept,seems a bit odd that the standard service is being withdrawn,but the 'A' variant is being kept

83A existed before the 83 came back as a standard service. If I recall, it's a once a day service ran by GCT and pretty much runs an entirely different route.

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(03 Sep 2021, 5:31 pm)Drifter60 wrote Must admit I was confused as to what the 38 is doing and what the difference was to the 38A. The PDF shows the 38A but the main embedded timetable doesn’t show any runs to the docks or any 38A buses.

Go to the timetables set a date say 11th sept and it shows 38 doing a dock loop one way to Park Lane and the 38A the other way through to Hollycarrside until 6pm

With the 2A shown via Leechmere until 6pm, so if you want to go to Asda after that... walk

What will be allocated to the 135/136 from Sunday, as its normally allocated the Black Cat Streetlites.

Been out and about today across 10 different buses and 4 different bus stations, but I could barely find anything about the service changes. The only reference was some vague notices about stand reallocations at Gateshead Interchange, which were nothing more than an A4 sheet stuck on the window.

Either I'm massively unlucky, or there's something amiss here? I acknowledge what Dan said earlier about issues at the printers, and completely appreciate these things happen, but these are my observations:

- 'Service Changes' poster appears to be disappearing prematurely
- Only 1 out of 10 buses carrying any sort of timetable (a 21, but it was the Oct 2020 edition!)
- Only 2 out of 10 buses carrying the 'Summer Fares' leaflets
- Service Changes booklets are still as rare as hens teeth

It was alarming to see so many timetable holders completely empty, and in addition to that, I saw more buses carrying 'The Big Bus Conversation' posters than anything else. One bus had nothing in the clip frame, and another had a poster still advising we're in a local lockdown 

Anyhow, I've done a bit of a write-up here. Have a read, if you've got the chance: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2021/09...s-the-key/

(03 Sep 2021, 8:21 pm)54APhotography wrote Go to the timetables set a date say 11th sept and it shows 38 doing a dock loop one way to Park Lane and the 38A the other way through to Hollycarrside until 6pm

With the 2A shown via Leechmere until 6pm, so if you want to go to Asda after that... walk

A second go at this…
The embedded timetable only shows the docks runs (east of the City centre) when you select “towards Hollycarrside”. Selecting towards “Sunderland Docks” is showing runs between Tunstall Bank and Vine Place only, no further east and no 38A runs. Surely the wrong way round, if anything? But shouldn’t both directions show runs to the Docks consider you could want to travel through the City Centre and back again. 
I now also noticed the PDF and embedded timetable differ on the route number, the former suggests that its the 38A that run to Tunstall Bank but the return journey into Sunderland/Docks is just the 38. The embedded timetable has all the shorts (City centre to Docks) as 38A and all runs to Tunstall Bank as 38. 
I don’t live on this route, but it seems very confusing to me.

What number bus do I need? Can I go from Hollycarrside direct to the docks? I’m not sure I could answer either confidently…

(03 Sep 2021, 11:24 pm)Adrian wrote Been out and about today across 10 different buses and 4 different bus stations, but I could barely find anything about the service changes. The only reference was some vague notices about stand reallocations at Gateshead Interchange, which were nothing more than an A4 sheet stuck on the window.

Either I'm massively unlucky, or there's something amiss here? I acknowledge what Dan said earlier about issues at the printers, and completely appreciate these things happen, but these are my observations:

- 'Service Changes' poster appears to be disappearing prematurely
- Only 1 out of 10 buses carrying any sort of timetable (a 21, but it was the Oct 2020 edition!)
- Only 2 out of 10 buses carrying the 'Summer Fares' leaflets
- Service Changes booklets are still as rare as hens teeth

It was alarming to see so many timetable holders completely empty, and in addition to that, I saw more buses carrying 'The Big Bus Conversation' posters than anything else. One bus had nothing in the clip frame, and another had a poster still advising we're in a local lockdown 

Anyhow, I've done a bit of a write-up here. Have a read, if you've got the chance: https://www.busesandbeyond.co.uk/2021/09...s-the-key/

I will take a read of your link when it’s a more socialable hour (writing this at 1:30am!) but I do agree about communicating changes still needs improving. I can appreciate the four week notice the GNE website gave, which I think is a fair amount of time, providing that its backed up with other formats, printed leaflets/posters and bus station/stop information. I realise that bus stops maybe outside the bus company’s control but I do think all bus stations and interchanges, and main town/villages bus stops should have details on this, for better or worse. Bus companies working with local authorities to achieve this etc. It’s a two street too, promote the improvements, the new 65/new X72/new links on the 47/later evening and Sunday buses on the 8 etc. As well as the ones they’re cancelling of course! 

I understand the printing issues, staffing issues etc but it seems bad planning has to be blamed in part. With a few exceptions - the 71/28 and introduction of 730,734 and 643 - the timetables for the rest were finalised weeks ago. Could they not have been printed weeks ago? Perhaps extra suppliers are needed for major changes such as this. Or perhaps changing services just after summer, a summer when people have taken arguably more annual leave (having been in lockdown and the need for a break) and on the back of the “pingdemic”, maybe changes could have been planned a few weeks into September?

I think Seaham is going to be a change over point, for the 62 & 65.  Mon-Sat. Not sure about a Sunday.

(04 Sep 2021, 12:30 am)Drifter60 wrote A second go at this…
The embedded timetable only shows the docks runs (east of the City centre) when you select “towards Hollycarrside”. Selecting towards “Sunderland Docks” is showing runs between Tunstall Bank and Vine Place only, no further east and no 38A runs. Surely the wrong way round, if anything? But shouldn’t both directions show runs to the Docks consider you could want to travel through the City Centre and back again. 
I now also noticed the PDF and embedded timetable differ on the route number, the former suggests that its the 38A that run to Tunstall Bank but the return journey into Sunderland/Docks is just the 38. The embedded timetable has all the shorts (City centre to Docks) as 38A and all runs to Tunstall Bank as 38. 
I don’t live on this route, but it seems very confusing to me.

What number bus do I need? Can I go from Hollycarrside direct to the docks? I’m not sure I could answer either confidently…

The timetables have been uploaded to confuse... I selected the dates of the 11th & 13th September, then selected to the docks you get an hourly from Tunstall Bank to Vine Place, select to Hollycarrside and up pop the 38 and 38A.

The 38 arrives Vine Place at xx56, then goes forward to the Docks and back to Tunstall Bank at xx00

The 38A on the timetable shows Vine Place at xx30 to the docks and returning to the Interchange at xx49

No matter how you look at it the service to Asda is much poorer.



The 38C appears ex Interchange at 1910/2010/2110/2210/2310 and returning from Tunstall at 1935/20/35/2135/2235

(04 Sep 2021, 8:44 am)54APhotography wrote The timetables have been uploaded to confuse... I selected the dates of the 11th & 13th September, then selected to the docks you get an hourly from Tunstall Bank to Vine Place, select to Hollycarrside and up pop the 38 and 38A.

The 38 arrives Vine Place at xx56, then goes forward to the Docks and back to Tunstall Bank at xx00

The 38A on the timetable shows Vine Place at xx30 to the docks and returning to the Interchange at xx49

No matter how you look at it the service to Asda is much poorer.



The 38C appears ex Interchange at 1910/2010/2110/2210/2310 and returning from Tunstall at 1935/20/35/2135/2235

could it not be worth, sending the 2A or 2 & 39 or 39A up passed Holymere & Asda, through to Sunderland...I'd imagine it would be around 2-3 mins extra for the 2..