"Great to join @MayorJD and @NewcastleCC Cllr @GedBell with our friends @Co_wheels this afternoon to launch ‘Flexility’, our new flexible mobility smartcard and bundled season ticket offer that’s both a bus pass + car club membership key! Full details tomorrow @gonortheast"

https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/14...0609645573

Thought the messaging was about getting people out of cars and on to buses...?

(15 Sep 2021, 6:38 pm)Adrian wrote https://twitter.com/MartijnGNE/status/14...0609645573

Thought the messaging was about getting people out of cars and on to buses...? 

I personally think it's a great idea. If they can't encourage people back onto the bus, then it makes sense to try and get a slice of the pie from car-sharing. Plus it seems to be Newcastle based, and GNE don't really have that many services north of the city.

(15 Sep 2021, 7:47 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I personally think it's a great idea. If they can't encourage people back onto the bus, then it makes sense to try and get a slice of the pie from car-sharing. Plus it seems to be Newcastle based, and GNE don't really have that many services north of the city.

I'm not sure I understand the aim of the partnership, if I'm honest.

We're going from 'getting people out of their cars and onto buses' to 'getting people off our buses and into cars'. What's this doing to combat congestion, where buses are supposedly struggling from the lack of bus priority and private car use domination. 

I don't see what is in it for GNE either. I've just had a quick look on the Co Wheels website, and the nearest hire locations to me are Low Fell and Gateshead Town Centre. If I've bussed that far, then I can't foresee any reason why I'd alight to pay around £5.50 an hour to use a car. Especially when I've got to take it back to the same location. The majority of locations appear to be in the student areas of Newcastle, where there's already more than enough buses - plus the Metro.

Maybe there's another message behind it, but I'm not seeing it. It's almost a defeatist stance to public transport, highlighting its inadequacies.

(15 Sep 2021, 9:44 pm)Adrian wrote I'm not sure I understand the aim of the partnership, if I'm honest.

We're going from 'getting people out of their cars and onto buses' to 'getting people off our buses and into cars'. What's this doing to combat congestion, where buses are supposedly struggling from the lack of bus priority and private car use domination. 

I don't see what is in it for GNE either. I've just had a quick look on the Co Wheels website, and the nearest hire locations to me are Low Fell and Gateshead Town Centre. If I've bussed that far, then I can't foresee any reason why I'd alight to pay around £5.50 an hour to use a car. Especially when I've got to take it back to the same location. The majority of locations appear to be in the student areas of Newcastle, where there's already more than enough buses - plus the Metro.

Maybe there's another message behind it, but I'm not seeing it. It's almost a defeatist stance to public transport, highlighting its inadequacies.

Co Wheels is also ridiculously expensive.

(15 Sep 2021, 9:44 pm)Adrian wrote I'm not sure I understand the aim of the partnership, if I'm honest.

We're going from 'getting people out of their cars and onto buses' to 'getting people off our buses and into cars'. What's this doing to combat congestion, where buses are supposedly struggling from the lack of bus priority and private car use domination. 

I don't see what is in it for GNE either. I've just had a quick look on the Co Wheels website, and the nearest hire locations to me are Low Fell and Gateshead Town Centre. If I've bussed that far, then I can't foresee any reason why I'd alight to pay around £5.50 an hour to use a car. Especially when I've got to take it back to the same location. The majority of locations appear to be in the student areas of Newcastle, where there's already more than enough buses - plus the Metro.

Maybe there's another message behind it, but I'm not seeing it. It's almost a defeatist stance to public transport, highlighting its inadequacies.

I can sort of see it from both perspectives.

On one hand, it definitely does, like you say, look defeatist as they're basically promoting the use of a car.

But on the other hand, they could turn the promotion the other way round and target the sort of people that would normally use the likes of Co Wheels, and try and get them to use the bus.


I've also been trying to think of ways that, for someone like me, it would be useful.

I work from home, but occasionally have to nip up north into the office to pick things up (usually big batches of surveys etc.), and for something like that it would look attractive. I suppose it could also be handy for when we have to pick things up from clients, who's offices are rarely on a bus route (at least within a reasonable walking distance). Something like that would probably only take half an hour or so, so the cost would probably be on par, or cheaper than a taxi. 
I'd still have to traipse all the way back with them down to Bishop on the bus, but since I live a 2 minute walk from the bus stop, it wouldn't be any more difficult than carrying shopping.

Other than that, I can't really think of any reasons for me to personally use it.

(15 Sep 2021, 9:52 pm)Keeiajs wrote Co Wheels is also ridiculously expensive.

Also unless it's just me, a confusing refuelling policy.  the below is from their website

"Driving is easy when you're a car club member. We cover everything, including insurance, cleaning, servicing and refueling - you just book a car when you need one, and drive away! - We don't cover refueling of the vehicles, this is the members' responsibility to make sure that there is a minimum of a quarter tank remaining at the end of the booking."

https://www.co-wheels.org.uk/how-it-works

Can’t be a bad idea. Perhaps a recognition that the buses can’t meet every journey need, particularly in a post COVID world. I can’t see them selling in vast quantities but would be helpful for someone perhaps working from home 4 days per week with occasional journeys to an office on a business park off the bus network. Or maybe someone in a job generally in a fixed location but with occasional needs to work in the field.

No offence to GNE, who I assume have been approached directly, but it's totally the wrong public transport product bolted on to have the maximum effect. Should be Network One for full network coverage.

This sort of scheme could be good with network wide coverage, so it really should be NEXUS taking the lead with this sort of thing.

I do think that this is an acknowledgement that buses aren't going to meet everyone's needs, however I just can't see any North East residents using the scheme. Visitors - yes, if they want a mix of car rental and public transport to get around.

If it's targeted at NE residents however, then who with a driving licence is able to afford both public transport AND car rental when it's probably cheaper to just drive the whole way? Just seems like another case of bus companies thinking they know what drivers want.

Why introduce another new card. Use Pop Card, then Co Wheels users aren’t limited to just GNE services.

Like others, I don’t really understand the point in this yet.

(15 Sep 2021, 10:39 pm)streetdeckfan wrote I work from home, but occasionally have to nip up north into the office to pick things up (usually big batches of surveys etc.), and for something like that it would look attractive. I suppose it could also be handy for when we have to pick things up from clients, who's offices are rarely on a bus route (at least within a reasonable walking distance). Something like that would probably only take half an hour or so, so the cost would probably be on par, or cheaper than a taxi. 
I'd still have to traipse all the way back with them down to Bishop on the bus, but since I live a 2 minute walk from the bus stop, it wouldn't be any more difficult than carrying shopping.

Other than that, I can't really think of any reasons for me to personally use it.

One of your examples is one of three reasons I thought would make this kind of scheme some use, but then I thought how many people are going to bus from A to B, then use a hire car from B to C? I'd suggest that most people, if their own office is not on a bus route anyway, would be a private car owner and rely on that for at least 95% of their journeys. Others would just cycle etc. The point about picking things up from clients, I'd suggest most businesses already have either company cars or pool cars for this kind of work anyway. I can't see them sending someone who doesn't own a car, when the majority of their workforce probably do.

The other two examples I could think of was grocery shopping or bulky item shopping. Grocery shopping is cheaper to do for home delivery, and most bulky items that would fit in a car would usually be offered with a reasonable delivery fee (or free delivery with Amazon). Bigger bulky items, which you'd need a van for, then there may be some use. But that is likely to be a very niche market! Plus I can only see one van near me with a search, and that's over on the Quayside.

(15 Sep 2021, 10:41 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Also unless it's just me, a confusing refuelling policy.  the below is from their website

"Driving is easy when you're a car club member. We cover everything, including insurance, cleaning, servicing and refueling - you just book a car when you need one, and drive away! - We don't cover refueling of the vehicles, this is the members' responsibility to make sure that there is a minimum of a quarter tank remaining at the end of the booking."

https://www.co-wheels.org.uk/how-it-works

So they cover fuelling, but its the hirer's responsibility to make sure there's fuel left? That's cleared that one up then... 

(15 Sep 2021, 10:57 pm)James101 wrote Can’t be a bad idea. Perhaps a recognition that the buses can’t meet every journey need, particularly in a post COVID world. I can’t see them selling in vast quantities but would be helpful for someone perhaps working from home 4 days per week with occasional journeys to an office on a business park off the bus network. Or maybe someone in a job generally in a fixed location but with occasional needs to work in the field.

I think there has to be a recognition that buses cannot meet every journey, but I'm far from being convinced that adding more single-user cars on the road is the solution. I really like the idea of bookable DRT schemes, similar to what Teesflex and ArrivaClick offers, for more bespoke or lesser-made journeys. This just feels like another gimmick, similar to the flurry of orange eScooters.

Working patterns for predominantly office-based workers are clearly changing, and certainly a lot of businesses are investing heavily in the infrastructure to allow that to become a more permanent thing. I therefore cannot help but feel that this is a bit defeatist of operators. Prepared to hand over the journeys, for those now making one or two office commutes per week, over to a flexible car hire company. I'd hope operators would be prepared to create (and promote) more flexible multi-journey products, similar to the Flexi 5, and encourage people to continue making those journeys by bus.

I'm also a bit confused how we've gone from the messaging that cars are bad/congestion is the biggest threat to buses, to now going into partnership with a view of promoting more cars on the City Centre roads. As a reminder, this was two years ago now:

(16 Sep 2021, 12:56 am)omnicity4659 wrote I do think that this is an acknowledgement that buses aren't going to meet everyone's needs, however I just can't see any North East residents using the scheme. Visitors - yes, if they want a mix of car rental and public transport to get around.

If it's targeted at NE residents however, then who with a driving licence is able to afford both public transport AND car rental when it's probably cheaper to just drive the whole way? Just seems like another case of bus companies thinking they know what drivers want.

I think you're spot on. Those with a licence (and that can afford to use this scheme in addition to monthly bus fares), will likely be a car owner anyway. Or if not, they'll have access to a car (e.g. 1 car households)

I just can't see people being prepared to make a bus journey to a car, to do a bit driving, and then make the bus journey back. It'll be a bit of a come down to be honest, having had a couple hours of freedom of going where you want and not having sit through Karen on her phone the whole journey, telling her mate about the latest drama in her life.

(16 Sep 2021, 7:50 pm)Adrian wrote I just can't see people being prepared to make a bus journey to a car, to do a bit driving, and then make the bus journey back. It'll be a bit of a come down to be honest, having had a couple hours of freedom of going where you want and not having sit through Karen on her phone the whole journey, telling her mate about the latest drama in her life.

If anything it's likely to make folk more likely to bite the bullet and get a private car. I saw the following in the GNE press release: 

"and examples of things like blended home-office working where full-time car ownership is now even less financially viable for many people." 

I'd have thought it was the opposite. Same income, lower expenses on fuel etc, so surely it's more attractive for folk to look into car ownership for the few days they do go into the office and as a better alternative for days out. Regardless, as a long term business move I don't see how beneficial it is for a bus company to be dangling the carrot of a private car (especially at the moment where it's a lottery to see if your bus is even going to turn up).

(16 Sep 2021, 8:08 pm)mb134 wrote If anything it's likely to make folk more likely to bite the bullet and get a private car. I saw the following in the GNE press release: 

"and examples of things like blended home-office working where full-time car ownership is now even less financially viable for many people." 

I'd have thought it was the opposite. Same income, lower expenses on fuel etc, so surely it's more attractive for folk to look into car ownership for the few days they do go into the office and as a better alternative for days out. Regardless, as a long term business move I don't see how beneficial it is for a bus company to be dangling the carrot of a private car.

I agree. Fuel for a daily commute, plus whatever it costs to park daily/weekly/monthly in a City Centre, then its a considerable saving. It's not just that, but its the incidental spend that you save from working at home, even for things as simple as cooking your own bacon sandwich and making your own coffee, rather than going to Greggs.

The additional disposal income is likely to make car ownership more attractive, at least to those with driving licences who use buses as a cost saving. I'm not convinced many use it for the convenience...

(16 Sep 2021, 8:13 pm)Adrian wrote I agree. Fuel for a daily commute, plus whatever it costs to park daily/weekly/monthly in a City Centre, then its a considerable saving. It's not just that, but its the incidental spend that you save from working at home, even for things as simple as cooking your own bacon sandwich and making your own coffee, rather than going to Greggs.

The additional disposal income is likely to make car ownership more attractive, at least to those with driving licences who use buses as a cost saving. I'm not convinced many use it for the convenience...

Definitely, those Tesco Meal Deals/Starbucks/Costa's/Greggs all add up! 

I do wonder how many cars they have? Are you always guaranteed a car whenever you fancy, or might you go to book one for a day out on the Saturday and find you're too late - at which point you're back to the bus anyway. I can't find a number on their website, and I imagine it'll be a decent amount, but it's an apprehension I'd always have.

(16 Sep 2021, 8:25 pm)mb134 wrote Definitely, those Tesco Meal Deals/Starbucks/Costa's/Greggs all add up! 

I do wonder how many cars they have? Are you always guaranteed a car whenever you fancy, or might you go to book one for a day out on the Saturday and find you're too late - at which point you're back to the bus anyway. I can't find a number on their website, and I imagine it'll be a decent amount, but it's an apprehension I'd always have.

Don't forget Cooplands. Every time I pop up north I have to call in to get my bacon sandwich, and when I get to Gateshead I call in to get some cheese straws for the next bus ride! I think I've got a good 4 or 5 loyalty cards just about filled as I only redeem the meal deals when I go on a day out!