(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417

5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently?  amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!

That's under half the price of an explorer, I think.

(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417

5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently?  amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!

Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)
Explore is £10.90

(10 Oct 2021, 12:47 pm)Train8261 wrote Day rover is currently £7.80 (Across Arriva,Go North East, Stagecoach, Metro, Ferry & Raill between Metrocentre and Sunderland)
Explore is £10.90

Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County Durham

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(10 Oct 2021, 12:48 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Isn't the Day Rover only within Tyne and Wear, so you can't cross into Northumberland or County Durham

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Unfortunately.  Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn't

(10 Oct 2021, 12:01 pm)Rob44 wrote https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...y-21804417

5 pound ticket for whole of north east? how much is an explorer currently?  amd 1 pound for under 19's? oh to be young again!

Ironically (?) on the same page, there is a link for this: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...g-21794039
Whilst I agree that lower fares are definitely a positive; to counter it - the state of the regions transport network is holding people back.
I've said it before - if people can't get a bus to and from work, they ain't gonna use it. No matter how cheap it is.

(10 Oct 2021, 3:37 pm)Andreos1 wrote Ironically (?) on the same page, there is a link for this: https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...g-21794039
Whilst I agree that lower fares are definitely a positive, to counter it - the state of the regions transport network is holding people back.
I've said it before - if people can't get a bus to and from work, they ain't gonna use it. No matter how cheap it is.

Agreed, cheaper, cross operator fares is a good start, but better links should be something that this is paying for too for it to make a proper change.

A cheap £5 multi-operator, multi-modal ticket will probably entice me to use public transport for longer distance journeys, mostly for leisure purposes, when time isn't really an issue.

(10 Oct 2021, 1:06 pm)Train8261 wrote Unfortunately.  Seems a bit over kill. Your paying £7.80 to stay in T&W but you need £10.90 to cross the border. Still confused why the Explorer doesn't get you any futher on the Northern train than Blaydon or Sunderland since the ticket is valid all the way to Carlisle, Berwick & Scarborough (I think on the X93/X94) but it's probably been told before why it isn't

Because the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.

If the Explorer ticket was valid on more of the Northern Rail network, the Explorer ticket would be a lot more expensive. For example Northern sell a Tyne & Tees Day Ranger which is valid on LNER; Northern; TransPennine Express; CrossCountry services on the following lines: Morpeth - Darlington, Hexham - Middlesbrough, Bishop Auckland - Saltburn, Middlesbrough - Whitby & Middlesbrough - Northallerton. It is not valid before 09:00 and in 2019 it was £23.40 for Adult ticket - so more than double the £10.90 for the Explorer Ticket and it does not get you to Berwick, Carlisle or Scarborough (although the Explorer ticket is not valid on the Yorkshire Coastliner buses between York and Scarborough which is the only way you can get there by train):
Tyne & Tees Day Ranger

(10 Oct 2021, 6:36 pm)IRHardy wrote Because the Northern line between Blaydon and Sunderland is the only bit that is included within the Network One ticketing system.

If the Explorer ticket was valid on more of the Northern Rail network, the Explorer ticket would be a lot more expensive. For example Northern sell a Tyne & Tees Day Ranger which is valid on LNER; Northern; TransPennine Express; CrossCountry services on the following lines: Morpeth - Darlington, Hexham - Middlesbrough, Bishop Auckland - Saltburn, Middlesbrough - Whitby & Middlesbrough - Northallerton. It is not valid before 09:00 and in 2019 it was £23.40 for Adult ticket - so more than double the £10.90 for the Explorer Ticket and it does not get you to Berwick, Carlisle or Scarborough (although the Explorer ticket is not valid on the Yorkshire Coastliner buses between York and Scarborough which is the only way you can get there by train):
Tyne & Tees Day Ranger

For great value throughout the region, you can’t beat Network One Explorer North East! It’s one of the most extensive schemes in the country, from the Scottish Borders down to Richmond in the south and Carlisle in the west

Stagecoach North East & Cumbria services within the Carlisle city boundary

From the Scottish Borders throughout Northumberland, Tyne & Wear, County Durham, Teesside and North Yorkshire the Network One Explorer North East Ticket gives you the freedom to plan your days out

(10 Oct 2021, 3:41 pm)deanmachine wrote Agreed, cheaper, cross operator fares is a good start, but better links should be something that this is paying for too for it to make a proper change.

It needs to be imo, otherwise any growth from lower fares would only be temporary.
The changes to fares and the network could make numbers sustainable longer term, reversing the trends seen for decades.

(10 Oct 2021, 8:41 pm)Andreos1 wrote It needs to be imo, otherwise any growth from lower fares would only be temporary.
The changes to fares and the network could make numbers sustainable longer term, reversing the trends seen for decades.

I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people off

(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 wrote I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people off

It really depends on where you live and work, if you travel in one 'zone', the prices are reasonable, if you travel from the end of one zone to the end of another, it's also reasonable. It's when you're in the middle that it gets pricey.

For me in Bishop, most of my travel is to Newcastle/Gateshead areas, so that's at least a 60 mile round trip. For that the bus actually works out fairly similar to the cost of fuel. The only 'expensive' part is the time it takes - 2 hours by bus, 30-40 mins by car.

For a friend living in High Spen and working in the MetroCentre, it costs them £2.70 a day, which is a fair price imo.

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(11 Oct 2021, 7:48 am)Rob44 wrote I hate to disagree with you Andreos and this is only from a personal perspective but if i could get to and from work.... about a 3-4 mile journey for say £10 a week i would actually put up with the waiting around, dirty buses, noisy kids and bad weather. Its the fact that if i were to buy singles it would cost me almost £10 per day and if i got a day ticket it would cost me £25 + per week. Especially with the cost of petrol! Obviuosly a direct bus to where i work would make it even more enticing but for me, and a quick poll in my office suggests the current cost of bus travel even when you purchase weekly and 4 weekly tickets puts people off

That's the thing. For some who live 3-4miles and there is a direct route, it may be a viable alternative. For those needing 2/3 buses to get to work and the same back, it's not going to be an alternative - particularly if the car is not only quicker/direct, but the journey significantly shorter too.

I don't believe the vast majority of people live and work within a 3/4 mile radius and for the majority of those commuting to/from work, I reckon the lack of public transport impacts on their mode of transport. Just look at the major employment sites and the transport connectivity in those areas.

I agree pricing is a major factor. That goes without saying. I do think it is just part of the fix though.

(11 Oct 2021, 9:29 am)Andreos1 wrote That's the thing. For some who live 3-4miles and there is a direct route, it may be a viable alternative. For those needing 2/3 buses to get to work and the same back, it's not going to be an alternative - particularly if the car is not only quicker/direct, but the journey significantly shorter too.

I don't believe the vast majority of people live and work within a 3/4 mile radius and for the majority of those commuting to/from work, I reckon the lack of public transport impacts on their mode of transport. Just look at the major employment sites and the transport connectivity in those areas.

I agree pricing is a major factor. That goes without saying. I do think it is just part of the fix though.

I've long said that people just use buses out of necessity. no access to car use the bus. Getting drunk use the bus.  Streetdeck fan often says he prefers the bus to car but i believe he is learning to drive. Once hes done this and gets himself a motor he'll think why was i making 2 hour journeys when i can sit here  in elegance and do the journey in less then half the time"!  I know that was me before I got a car!!

(11 Oct 2021, 10:14 am)Rob44 wrote I've long said that people just use buses out of necessity. no access to car use the bus. Getting drunk use the bus.  Streetdeck fan often says he prefers the bus to car but i believe he is learning to drive. Once hes done this and gets himself a motor he'll think why was i making 2 hour journeys when i can sit here  in elegance and do the journey in less then half the time"!  I know that was me before I got a car!!

See, I honestly don't believe that would be the case, mainly because I don't see the time I spend on a bus as a 'waste'. While I do spend a lot longer on the bus, that time is usable to get some work done. So, in my eyes, I'm being paid to travel by bus, whereas that 40 or so minutes that I would spend sitting in a car would be 'wasted'.

The other thing is the cost. At the minute, it's considerably cheaper for me to travel by bus (to places I'd want to visit anyway!). Maybe in a year and a half when I can no longer take advantage of the 5-25 tickets, that will change.

It’s been said many times that you can’t force people to use the bus. But one thing being missed is human nature itself.

When it comes down to it, would you rather drive yourself somewhere or share that space with other people you don’t know at a time not of your choosing?

I’ve personally been fortunate that I’ve lived in a relatively good area for public transport with frequent bus services that I can use. They obviously take longer than I’d like, but as I walk to work and use the bus for leisure, time is not important to me. However, it is to others.

I have a friend that lives just outside a semi- rural market town in a new build estate. He works from home and travels to the office 2/3 days a week. He has driven all his life. At the very end of his back garden he has a gate with a bus stop less than 2 minutes away. The buses from that stop operate four times an hour to within 5 minutes walk of his place of work. Two buses an hour via a quick route and two an hour via a slightly longer route.

He can buy a ticket valid on any 5 days in a month for just £19, perfect for his scenario. He can keep his car for the random trips he makes to play football or snooker. But he won’t use the bus for work, despite it being a viable option. Why? He told me he’d have to get out of bed 30 minutes earlier as he “knows what the traffic is like”. He and other like him are causing that traffic he is complaining about!

He isn’t the only one. I have family member that works from home 5 days a week. She lives on a bus route operating every 15 minutes to the place she does her shopping and makes use of the local services. £1.70 each way that would cost her and it would take around 20 minutes, but she uses the car instead! This is because she does her weekly shop there, so she can’t drag an ALDI trolley laden with goods on to the bus!

Two non-scientific real world examples of where a bus is clearly a genuinely viable option for the actual main journey being made, but for different reasons the people involved would rather drive.

If that sort of thing is happening where bus services are comparatively decent and at an affordable price, what hope is there of persuading long term car users travelling to and from areas where the bus service is not so good at present?

(11 Oct 2021, 6:01 pm)DeltaMan wrote It’s been said many times that you can’t force people to use the bus. But one thing being missed is human nature itself.

When it comes down to it, would you rather drive yourself somewhere or share that space with other people you don’t know at a time not of your choosing?

I’ve personally been fortunate that I’ve lived in a relatively good area for public transport with frequent bus services that I can use. They obviously take longer than I’d like, but as I walk to work and use the bus for leisure, time is not important to me. However, it is to others.

I have a friend that lives just outside a semi- rural market town in a new build estate. He works from home and travels to the office 2/3 days a week. He has driven all his life. At the very end of his back garden he has a gate with a bus stop less than 2 minutes away. The buses from that stop operate four times an hour to within 5 minutes walk of his place of work. Two buses an hour via a quick route and two an hour via a slightly longer route. 

He can buy a ticket valid on any 5 days in a month for just £19, perfect for his scenario. He can keep his car for the random trips he makes to play football or snooker. But he won’t use the bus for work, despite it being a viable option. Why? He told me he’d have to get out of bed 30 minutes earlier as he “knows what the traffic is like”. He and other like him are causing that traffic he is complaining about!

He isn’t the only one. I have family member that works from home 5 days a week. She lives on a bus route operating every 15 minutes to the place she does her shopping and makes use of the local services. £1.70 each way that would cost her and it would take around 20 minutes, but she uses the car instead! This is because she does her weekly shop there, so she can’t drag an ALDI trolley laden with goods on to the bus!

Two non-scientific real world examples of where a bus is clearly a genuinely viable option for the actual main journey being made, but for different reasons the people involved would rather drive. 

If that sort of thing is happening where bus services are comparatively decent and at an affordable price, what hope is there of persuading long term car users travelling to and from areas where the bus service is not so good at present?

I'm lucky that at my current place basically everything I need is within walking distance, so I could easily get by without a car, and for most things I don't even need to catch a bus. But here I have a half-hourly service to Newcastle and allegedly a 15 minute frequency to Durham.

I'm also probably unusual in the fact that I chose to move 30 miles away from basically all my friends, but the thought of bumping into people I knew from school just made me feel physically sick! (I basically moved as far as I could while staying on GNE's network)
So, since family, friends and basically anything fun is back up north, I travel up regularly for only £4.50 a day (£5.90 if I leave Newcastle after 4pm!)

To match that price with a car, I'd have to have a car that did 80mpg, and was free to own, insure and tax!

So, in my rather unusual circumstance, travelling by bus isn't just 'comparatively decent', it's the logical option!


Going back to a friend that works in the Metrocentre, she was quite happy travelling by bus to work and back until recently, when reliability went to shit. She's been late for work countless times because buses either haven't run or have run late, to the point where she's considering taking driving lessons.

Another friend lives in Jarrow and works in Newcastle city centre, she could get the Metro to work, but she chooses to torture herself and drive into and out of Newcastle at rush hour because it's less torture than using the Metro!

The reduction in services was quite visible when we popped into Newcastle, this morning. Eldon square bus station was quite empty.

(11 Oct 2021, 9:32 pm)BusLoverMum wrote The reduction in services was quite visible when we popped into Newcastle, this morning. Eldon square bus station was quite empty.

It was very quiet when I was there last week as well. It felt quite deserted seeing a good 3/4 of the stands empty. I'm used to seeing buses literally queuing to get in!

I had a right carry on getting from Eldon Square to Metrocentre. I had to wait quite a while for a bus because an X45 or X46 was cancelled (might have been both, wouldn't surprise me), the 10/A/B/C/D I was planning on getting never turned up, the one after turned up late and just dawdled on the way there.

Speaking of buses dawdling, the same friend ended up being late for work a week or so back because the 10A managed turn up late at High Spen despite it leaving Blackhall Mill on time.
I can't remember the exact timings but when I looked at Bus Times at the time it took them nearly 10 minutes to get up Mill Road, which would normally take 3-4 minutes, then spent 10 minutes doing the loop around the river streets, which would once again should only take 5 minutes. By the time it got to High Spen it was running 10 minutes late, and she ended up getting to Metrocentre about 25 minutes late. She said there was very little traffic on the route, it was just the driver going slow.

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london

An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.

(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london

An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.

Providing people can actually get there by public transport. Not going well on the railways today.

(11 Oct 2021, 10:45 pm)streetdeckfan wrote Speaking of buses dawdling, the same friend ended up being late for work a week or so back because the 10A managed turn up late at High Spen despite it leaving Blackhall Mill on time.
I can't remember the exact timings but when I looked at Bus Times at the time it took them nearly 10 minutes to get up Mill Road, which would normally take 3-4 minutes, then spent 10 minutes doing the loop around the river streets, which would once again should only take 5 minutes. By the time it got to High Spen it was running 10 minutes late, and she ended up getting to Metrocentre about 25 minutes late. She said there was very little traffic on the route, it was just the driver going slow.

Driver might well have had a legit excuse sush as a delivery vehicle, car etc blocking the road beetween Blackhall Mill & High Spen or even several cyclists etc. Or the bus was in limp mode and had a fault.

However, deliberately dawdling / toading (not doing speed where road & traffic conditions allow) is unacceptable and GNE would no doubt nip it in the bud if they noticed a pattern.

Happened several times for me but mostly Arriva. One of them being around the X21/X22 Sapphire launch day back in 2014. Slow X22 driver in a new 7524 on way to town & running late. Massive queue for the outbound X21 towards Ashington in the Haymarket when the bus pulled in.

(31 Oct 2021, 4:16 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://tribunemag.co.uk/2021/10/glasgow...und-london

An interesting article on transport integration in Glasgow and how it can apparently happen when there's a big conference going on.

It's amazing what is possible when there's political will and desire. Let's hope the same is present at COP26.

https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic/status...-U5v4N_KvA&s=19

Where are the cars going? Where are they coming from? What public transport allows them to make that same journey? If there is any - what are the time differences?

Or is it all about bus priority measures and forcing the car users on to public transport?

And look at all that empty space at Heworth Interchange. Coming up to rush hour when services should be at peak but not a single bus waiting.

Charles

Even if those drivers were driving to and from a place on a frequent bus/Metro route, it's not as binary as saying "you should get the bus or Metro instead"... until a time when catching a train further than Chester-le-Street or Morpeth is cheaper than driving, when it doesn't take two bus journeys to travel three miles to a friend's house, or when it isn't awkward (for those not within 5 miles of each!) to get to the Silverlink, MetroCentre or Dalton Park for a bit of retail therapy then barely anyone will switch from car to bus. 

When you get a car, you probably won't have enough money for the weekly or monthly ticket that can only be used in the areas you're commuting to and from. People can't afford both, and the car will always win because that's what gets them around after their commutes.

(02 Dec 2021, 4:14 pm)Andreos1 wrote https://twitter.com/NELiveTraffic/status...-U5v4N_KvA&s=19

Where are the cars going? Where are they coming from? What public transport allows them to make that same journey? If there is any - what are the time differences?

Or is it all about bus priority measures and forcing the car users on to public transport?

To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.

If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.

If I need to be somewhere at peak times, I'll usually just travel there early and sit in Spoons for an hour or two to avoid it. But I suppose those that only those who work from home have that luxury!

(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan wrote To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.

If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.

I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.

(03 Dec 2021, 7:32 am)DeltaMan wrote I've seen polling which states 62% of car users won't switch to public transport for this very reason.

I'm surprised it's that low tbh!

I know it's not just me that keeps their bag on the seat next to them until there are literally no seats left on the bus and they have to give it up, and even then I do it reluctantly.

(03 Dec 2021, 6:59 am)streetdeckfan wrote To be honest, even as an avid bus user, if I had to choose between sitting on a packed bus or sitting in traffic in a car, I probably would choose to sit in traffic.

If there's one thing I hate more than sitting in traffic, it's having someone sit next to me on the bus.

If I need to be somewhere at peak times, I'll usually just travel there early and sit in Spoons for an hour or two to avoid it. But I suppose those that only those who work from home have that luxury!

You've changed your tune. You got most of your work for the day done at one of the x21 tables?!