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(06 Jan 2022, 2:41 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Here is an idea ?For a while now, I've shared links that show traffic jams and tailbacks across T&W.
Washington Galleries-Regent Centre
Service Number ... X123
Literately a limited stop to make it an Express. (Stop at locations only)
Washington Galleries
Concord Bus Station
Amazon Bus Station Follingsby
Jarrow Bus Station (for Metro link)
(Through tunnel)
Wallsend Bus Station (for Metro Link)
(Express )
Four Lane Ends Metro interchange - Park and Ride (possibly or direct to Freeman)
Freeman Hospital
South Gosforth Metro Station
Regent Centre Metro Station
Benefits is
Link to Amazon for North of Tyne
Direct link from Jarrow Metro to Wallsend Metro
Washington has a link to Freeman Hospital
Creating quicker links between Metro stations avoiding Newcastle City Centre
Jarrow has a direct link to Freeman Hospital
Serving Hospital and Amazon workers but improves reliability if Metro are off passengers visiting Hospital has a quick link
Wallsend to Amazon in less than 30mins perhaps?
(06 Jan 2022, 2:41 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Here is an idea ?I would extend it up the A690 to Sunderland as like a express to Washington. Or just send it straight up the A1231. Also From the Regent Centre you maybe could extend it to Haymarket with the Q3 to add a further connection to the bus station which Wallsend, nor Jarrow have at this moment.
Washington Galleries-Regent Centre
Service Number ... X123
Literately a limited stop to make it an Express. (Stop at locations only)
Washington Galleries
Concord Bus Station
Amazon Bus Station Follingsby
Jarrow Bus Station (for Metro link)
(Through tunnel)
Wallsend Bus Station (for Metro Link)
(Express )
Four Lane Ends Metro interchange - Park and Ride (possibly or direct to Freeman)
Freeman Hospital
South Gosforth Metro Station
Regent Centre Metro Station
Benefits is
Link to Amazon for North of Tyne
Direct link from Jarrow Metro to Wallsend Metro
Washington has a link to Freeman Hospital
Creating quicker links between Metro stations avoiding Newcastle City Centre
Jarrow has a direct link to Freeman Hospital
Serving Hospital and Amazon workers but improves reliability if Metro are off passengers visiting Hospital has a quick link
Wallsend to Amazon in less than 30mins perhaps?
(05 Jan 2022, 11:34 pm)Storx wrote Ah possibly then might have got mixed up with something elsewhere. I know there was the big scandal with tachometers at Snaiths which muddles everything up which is when they gained some of those I believe.These all came about following that fall out with Howard Snaith which saw NCC strip them of all contracts with PCL winning most of the less frequent runs like the 808, 815, 882 & 885 with the 680 coming about as a result of that plus Tyne Valley Coaches deciding to withdraw their commercially operated 880 runs to Bellingham
(04 Jan 2022, 3:02 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Is Metrocentre still a destination where people want to go?
If you're a teenager meeting friends; or if it raining and want to spend somewhere indoors; or if you're going to for something to eat then the cinema then yes, perhaps it is somewhere people still want to go, on occasion. However, the amount of boarded up shops and the introduction of things like Jobcentres, Eye Clinics and Community Hubs into empty units suggest Metrocentre is struggling for tenants and will be for years to come. I think the future of Metrocentre will be, at best, an out-of-town version of Jarrow, Wallsend, West Denton, or Stanley only with shops which are slightly more upmarket than your B&Ms or Shoezones (both of which are present at the Metrocentre) unless drastically changes soon. The main anchors have largely disappeared leaving only M&S, Next, and Primark in the centre itself, and IKEA in the Retail Parks, and only IKEA offers something which isn't found in any other town/city centre in the North East area.
So is it really a good move to extend the 29 to the Metrocentre? I'd argue probably not, especially in a climate where bus operators are seeking to cut costs wherever possible. Plus, in the past, there was a bus between Kibblesworth and Metrocentre which, presumably, wasn't massively popular otherwise it would still exist in some form.
The 29A seems like it would be a reintroduction of the 1/24/25... lineage of bus routes. Not necessarily against that idea, however it is unlikely it would be implemented as within the last year or so GNE have merged this into what was once the 25/X25/725 service between Langley Park and Newcastle. Presumably this was done to save a bus or two so unless there are major reliability issues further south on the route, it's probably nt happening.
(06 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But why Blaydon? You have yet to provide a reason why anyone from the West End of Newcastle would want to travel to Blaydon. The only reason I can think of is that YOU want to travel to Blaydon, which is fine, but at least be honest about it rather than disguising it under the premise of wanting to create new links between places where very few people either end of the route wish to travel
While Metrocentre is a ghost of what it is once was, it still provides a number of things which Blaydon does not. So diverting the 6 or the 7 away from the Metrocentre would be commercial suicide for either service. My point about Metrocentre, which I think you misunderstood, is that there is little point in creating new Metrocentre specific services, shoppers specials if you will, like we might have seen in the past as shopping habits have drastically changed over the last decade or so.
On a final note, there were once services which operated between Blaydon and Westerhope (616/617/641/M16/M17). The reason they originally existed was to provide Stella Power Station with a bus service. Once that was demolished in 1990 ridership declined which led to the eventual withdrawal of the route sometime in the early 2000s, if not earlier. So to go back to my opening question: Why Blaydon? What has suddenly changed which would make folk want to go there?
(06 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But why Blaydon? You have yet to provide a reason why anyone from the West End of Newcastle would want to travel to Blaydon. The only reason I can think of is that YOU want to travel to Blaydon, which is fine, but at least be honest about it rather than disguising it under the premise of wanting to create new links between places where very few people either end of the route wish to travel
While Metrocentre is a ghost of what it is once was, it still provides a number of things which Blaydon does not. So diverting the 6 or the 7 away from the Metrocentre would be commercial suicide for either service. My point about Metrocentre, which I think you misunderstood, is that there is little point in creating new Metrocentre specific services, shoppers specials if you will, like we might have seen in the past as shopping habits have drastically changed over the last decade or so.
On a final note, there were once services which operated between Blaydon and Westerhope (616/617/641/M16/M17). The reason they originally existed was to provide Stella Power Station with a bus service. Once that was demolished in 1990 ridership declined which led to the eventual withdrawal of the route sometime in the early 2000s, if not earlier. So to go back to my opening question: Why Blaydon? What has suddenly changed which would make folk want to go there?
(06 Jan 2022, 8:25 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote In theory, because of the close proximity of Blaydon to West Newcastle, people might want to go there and whilst I do wish to go there and feel having to go into town and then back out is crazy and incentivises car ownership, creating new links, even infrequently, gives people the choice. The long withdrawn services from Westerhope inspired my thinking. Apologies I did misunderstand your post.
(06 Jan 2022, 8:39 pm)Storx wrote I know there's a lot of joking around with Kingston Park and the Metro Centre lately but one thing that is noticeable is there's a large chunk of the West End without a link to any supermarket at all. Benwell and Elswick in particular don't and nor does a large chunk of West Road without trailing through to Byker for over 30 minutes. I'm not counting West Denton that place is terrible. Yet 5 minutes drive South is the biggest ASDA in the North East and 10 minutes North is the biggest Tesco in the North East.
It's similar around North Kenton, 5 minutes drive from Tesco Kingston Park, no service at all. 5 minutes from ASDA and M&S Gosforth no service at all. Nearest supermarket Morrisons West Denton, 27 minutes on a bus and it's crap.
I agree they don't deserve buses from everywhere but when you can't get the basics right it's no wonder people are driving. Tesco Kingston Park, ASDA Metro Centre and ASDA Gosforth are pretty much inaccessible from most of the Stagecoach network in North / West Newcastle and they're there to serve those areas pretty much.
(06 Jan 2022, 9:03 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Benwell, and by extension Elswick given it's relatively close proximity, has an Asda, Iceland and Lidl. The Asda isn't huge admittedly, but the presence of all three gives local shoppers a good deal of choice. Elswick/Arthurs Hill also has a small Asda Supermarket too.
If you're travelling to Tesco at Kingston Park or Asda at Metrocentre, then the chances are you're probably there to do a bigger shop than you normally would in Benwell. This means you'll probably be lugging around a trolley-load of shopping in carrier bags and, lets face it, the prospect of using a bus whilst carrying a load of shopping isn't the most desirable due to the lack of space etc. The chances are, even if there was a service available, people would still opt to use the car.
(06 Jan 2022, 9:03 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Benwell, and by extension Elswick given it's relatively close proximity, has an Asda, Iceland and Lidl. The Asda isn't huge admittedly, but the presence of all three gives local shoppers a good deal of choice. Elswick/Arthurs Hill also has a small Asda Supermarket too.
If you're travelling to Tesco at Kingston Park or Asda at Metrocentre, then the chances are you're probably there to do a bigger shop than you normally would in Benwell. This means you'll probably be lugging around a trolley-load of shopping in carrier bags and, lets face it, the prospect of using a bus whilst carrying a load of shopping isn't the most desirable due to the lack of space etc. The chances are, even if there was a service available, people would still opt to use the car.
(06 Jan 2022, 9:08 pm)Adrian wrote And there isn't anywhere to put a large shop on a bus. Most buses nowadays have zero luggage space, so you're limited at a bag or two at most.You know what your spot on. When I was a kid using the 20 service stagecoach in Sunderland there was room for passengers as well as luggage.
**¼
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(06 Jan 2022, 8:52 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But if these long withdrawn services didn't work in the period between 1990 and 2000 when the service existed outside of providing workers with transport to a place of employment; and at a time when car ownership was lower and internet shopping didn't exist; why might people suddenly want to travel to Blaydon now? West Denton has a Morrisons. Slatyford has a B&Ms (as well as a Lidl, a Wickes, and an Iceland). Kingston Park has a Home Bargains (and a whole host of other things). I can't see Boyes or Cooplands being that much of a draw where people would be coming to visit in their droves; and the rest of the shops in Blaydon Precinct are nothing to write home about either.
Creating infrequent links is not sustainable for a place like Blaydon. Now just supposing people did want to travel there to shop, would people really be prepared to go shopping then wait potentially hours for the bus back to Westerhope? Probably not, right? What would actually happen is people would travel into Newcastle then onto Westerhope in order to save time (and possibly sanity), thus doing the opposite of what the infrequent service sets out to achieve.
It's another dead horse suggestion I'm afraid.
(06 Jan 2022, 8:52 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But if these long withdrawn services didn't work in the period between 1990 and 2000 when the service existed outside of providing workers with transport to a place of employment; and at a time when car ownership was lower and internet shopping didn't exist; why might people suddenly want to travel to Blaydon now? West Denton has a Morrisons. Slatyford has a B&Ms (as well as a Lidl, a Wickes, and an Iceland). Kingston Park has a Home Bargains (and a whole host of other things). I can't see Boyes or Cooplands being that much of a draw where people would be coming to visit in their droves; and the rest of the shops in Blaydon Precinct are nothing to write home about either.
Creating infrequent links is not sustainable for a place like Blaydon. Now just supposing people did want to travel there to shop, would people really be prepared to go shopping then wait potentially hours for the bus back to Westerhope? Probably not, right? What would actually happen is people would travel into Newcastle then onto Westerhope in order to save time (and possibly sanity), thus doing the opposite of what the infrequent service sets out to achieve.
It's another dead horse suggestion I'm afraid.
(07 Jan 2022, 2:35 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote There is more to life than shopping, people might have family or friends in different areas. Also tickets are problematic as Blaydon is GNE and Westerhope is Stagecoach (apart from the 74) so it costs more in this case travelling into Newcastle and then on to Westerhope. Sometimes the demand hasn't been explored (a service could run from the Metrocentre to Blaydon or Elswick and it makes little difference).
(07 Jan 2022, 7:08 am)MurdnunoC wrote I give up.
I honestly find the idea of a suggestions thread laughable as operators in the region can barely operate the services they have yet alone start new ones based upon the whims of enthusiasts.
This situation isn't about to change.
Is it time to close these threads once and for all?
(07 Jan 2022, 11:35 am)Adrian wrote You could never design a route or timetable to cater for where everyone's friends or family might live. It's impossible to cater for all the variables that would throw up.
I'd imagine when trying to design or develop a service, that the starting point should be where there's a logical link, e.g. connecting villages to Town or City Centres, to services (e.g. Hospitals), or to employment hubs and so on.
For all we know, the demand you're suggesting hasn't been explored, could have been explored. It's not like operators haven't got access to this data, with so many using smart cards, ticketing and so on, all that leaves a trackable footprint every time you scan it. I'd argue that operators have a greater ability to measure demand now than they've ever had.
I'm starting to agree. I think the original purpose of these threads was to suggest minor tweaks or alterations with some logic behind them, not wholesale changes or complete network overhauls that are pure fantasy, and would really serve no objective than to suit a poster's own circumstances.
(07 Jan 2022, 11:35 am)Adrian wrote You could never design a route or timetable to cater for where everyone's friends or family might live. It's impossible to cater for all the variables that would throw up.I agree, if used appropriately, the data they have access to will be more accurate than ever before. However, there will still be gaps.
I'd imagine when trying to design or develop a service, that the starting point should be where there's a logical link, e.g. connecting villages to Town or City Centres, to services (e.g. Hospitals), or to employment hubs and so on.
For all we know, the demand you're suggesting hasn't been explored, could have been explored. It's not like operators haven't got access to this data, with so many using smart cards, ticketing and so on, all that leaves a trackable footprint every time you scan it. I'd argue that operators have a greater ability to measure demand now than they've ever had.
I'm starting to agree. I think the original purpose of these threads was to suggest minor tweaks or alterations with some logic behind them, not wholesale changes or complete network overhauls that are pure fantasy, and would really serve no objective than to suit a poster's own circumstances.
(07 Jan 2022, 11:52 am)streetdeckfan wrote So you're saying a I shouldn't suggest a service that goes Tindale to Metrocentre via Bishop, Crook, Durham, Arnison Centre, CLS, Gateshead, Dunston, and IKEA?
I think that would be a very popular route and totally not just because that covers 90% of the places I travel to!
(06 Jan 2022, 7:49 pm)MurdnunoC wrote But why Blaydon? You have yet to provide a reason why anyone from the West End of Newcastle would want to travel to Blaydon. The only reason I can think of is that YOU want to travel to Blaydon, which is fine, but at least be honest about it rather than disguising it under the premise of wanting to create new links between places where very few people either end of the route wish to travel
While Metrocentre is a ghost of what it is once was, it still provides a number of things which Blaydon does not. So diverting the 6 or the 7 away from the Metrocentre would be commercial suicide for either service. My point about Metrocentre, which I think you misunderstood, is that there is little point in creating new Metrocentre specific services, shoppers specials if you will, like we might have seen in the past as shopping habits have drastically changed over the last decade or so.
On a final note, there were once services which operated between Blaydon and Westerhope (616/617/641/M16/M17). The reason they originally existed was to provide Stella Power Station with a bus service. Once that was demolished in 1990 ridership declined which led to the eventual withdrawal of the route sometime in the early 2000s, if not earlier. So to go back to my opening question: Why Blaydon? What has suddenly changed which would make folk want to go there?
(06 Jan 2022, 7:09 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Could we see the 6 and 7 withdrawn in the future if the Metrocentre is losing popularity? Maybe a new Four Lane Ends - Kingston Park - West Denton - Blaydon service? Be good to see the 6 and 7 run to Blaydon.
(07 Jan 2022, 12:45 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote There is more to life than shopping, people might have family or friends in different areas. Also tickets are problematic as Blaydon is GNE and Westerhope is Stagecoach (apart from the 74) so it costs more in this case travelling into Newcastle and then on to Westerhope. Sometimes the demand hasn't been explored (a service could run from the Metrocentre to Blaydon or Elswick and it makes little difference).
For my journey to Blaydon I believe I can get the 941 to Scotswood Road and then get the 12/12A from Scotswood Bridge towards Winlaton, so it avoids going into Newcastle unnecessarily.
(07 Jan 2022, 12:57 pm)Chris 1 wrote I can remember getting Atlanteans, Olympians and Nationals on the 616/617 back in the day. The demise was stark, mini buses in the end and even then in the M16/M17 days the service was split at Blaydon on evenings and Sundays.
(06 Jan 2022, 4:23 pm)Omega54 wrote I would extend it up the A690 to Sunderland as like a express to Washington. Or just send it straight up the A1231. Also From the Regent Centre you maybe could extend it to Haymarket with the Q3 to add a further connection to the bus station which Wallsend, nor Jarrow have at this moment.
Extending it to Sunderland would add connnections from the A690 to Newcastle & Washington, Wallsend, Freemans, Amazon.
And X123 I don't really like that. But maybe X56. Or just a X65
(07 Jan 2022, 4:16 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Just to be clear, I think areas in close proximity should have a bus, regardless of where I do or don't wish to go. Going into Newcastle to come back the other way makes no sense to me. Particularly with the additional cost of that wasted journey. A privatised bus network is not the best!Your ideas are quite entertaining, if not a little self centred. I d like bus to leave Hartlepool on a Saturday morning , at regular intervals, to take me direct to Sunderland. It must not stop at any place in between (except Ryhope, to pick my mate up). I d like it to call at Greggs, a few pubs in town, then direct to the SoL. Then , after 1930, I d like a regular service, at taxi speed, to return me to Hartlepool. I d ask GNE to run this service, but if they did, they’d feck around with it so many times , thst walking it would be more reliable!! ?.
In terms of Blaydon/Winlaton it was the 792/941 works buses that inspired my thinking, in addition to bygone era services and Westerhope being close to the A1, not my personal travel plans alone.
(07 Jan 2022, 9:46 pm)Economic505 wrote Your ideas are quite entertaining, if not a little self centred. I d like bus to leave Hartlepool on a Saturday morning , at regular intervals, to take me direct to Sunderland. It must not stop at any place in between (except Ryhope, to pick my mate up). I d like it to call at Greggs, a few pubs in town, then direct to the SoL. Then , after 1930, I d like a regular service, at taxi speed, to return me to Hartlepool. I d ask GNE to run this service, but if they did, they’d feck around with it so many times , thst walking it would be more reliable!! ?.
(07 Jan 2022, 10:19 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote All I'm saying is places in close proximity should have a service linking them. For example the Stagecoach 71 from Slatyford to Westerhope and onto Throckley or likewise the 72 to Chapel House doesn't involve a trip into Newcastle whereas to Blaydon it does, despite being little further than Scotswood which has the direct 6 and 7. For me and whoever else uses GNE tickets in Stagecoach territory because they cover the most areas it means walking or waiting for a less frequent service.
Personally I care about everyone, and think convenient travel is vital (who drives from Westerhope to Newcastle onto to Blaydon to just get to Blaydon?). Gateshead is popular and serviced can operate either side of Blaydon through Gateshead into Durham.
(07 Jan 2022, 10:45 pm)MurdnunoC wrote The reason Throckley, Chapel House and Westerhope have services which link one another is because the conduit is more or less linear and doesn't involve moving through an impassable object, namely that blue squiggly thing on the bottom of the map: The River Tyne. Gateshead is popular because it is a municipal centre for the Borough of Gateshead, just like Newcastle City Centre is for suburbs of Newcastle. Both are linked by a series of bridges that cross the River Tyne. Newcastle is also a regional capital and hub for people wishing to travel onwards to other regional hubs via train or coach, so it makes sense to have buses from the hinterlands of Gateshead (ie: Blaydon, Ryton, Winlaton and so forth) into Newcastle but not from suburban Newcastle (Westerhope, West Denton, Chapel House and beyond) into Gateshead as there would not be much point.
There may well be others, aside from yourself, who use opt GNE tickets within Stagecoach territory. However, I'd wager there use is specific to one service at one particular time of day for the purposes of commuting to/from a permanent place of work or education (not because they fancy a jolly on the bus to the furthest outreaches of the network). I would also wager these people are in the tiniest fractional minority. If people need to use two operators, there are multi-operator/mutli-modal tickets available for that specific purpose. Once this alleged BSIP comes to fruition, it is mooted that the cost of this ticketing will significantly come down in price thus benefiting passengers who use this type of ticket or pass. As for the rest, they will be happy to use Stagecoach tickets because that is the operator who, by hook or crook, are the most dominant in the area. They won't walk miles just to use another operator due to some bad experience. There may be issues with reliability here and there, but there are with all operators and I don't think the sudden introduction of a GNE service into the territory will solve that because, guess what, they can be unreliable too (as evidenced by threads elsewhere on the forum).
