(24 Feb 2022, 10:32 pm)Adrian wrote Most deregulated markets have been operating in managed decline for the best part of 25 years. Happy enough to run anything profitable and to send that money straight back to investors. Any accountant can make most things either profitable or loss-making on a balance sheet, and it doesn't help that bus services are always looked at parochially. Anything that is a bit tight, even if its the odd trip, is quickly shoved in the local authorities' direction to sort out. Usually ending up in the situation that the tax payer then funds their business, if not farmed out to another operator. It doesn't increase the operators profits, it just decreases the overhead and cuts more customers off from their bus network.

These are the key issues.  Under the current model operators are far too easily able to carve up services to cream off the profitable bits, into the pockets of shareholders and abandon both the bits that are less well used, and the people reliant on those.  Local government then has to try to make a fixed pool of public money, not shored up by profits that the fat cat investors have creamed off in the PLC, spread to cover an ever expanded wasteland of abandoned routes.  In turn this increases the profits for private operator, often those same operators who weren't interested in running the service without a load of public subsidy but are happy to cream off anything they can get from the public they "serve".  At least under public ownership, the public purse would get the benefit of the most profitable runs, to more effectively maintain the network as a whole.

(24 Feb 2022, 11:13 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote These are the key issues.  Under the current model operators are far too easily able to carve up services to cream off the profitable bits, into the pockets of shareholders and abandon both the bits that are less well used, and the people reliant on those.  Local government then has to try to make a fixed pool of public money, not shored up by profits that the fat cat investors have creamed off in the PLC, spread to cover an ever expanded wasteland of abandoned routes.  In turn this increases the profits for private operator, often those same operators who weren't interested in running the service without a load of public subsidy but are happy to cream off anything they can get from the public they "serve".  At least under public ownership, the public purse would get the benefit of the most profitable runs, to more effectively maintain the network as a whole.

Do you honestly think "shareholders" or corporate types in big PLC offices are plotting the downfall of the 32 bus route in Newcastle??

(24 Feb 2022, 11:58 pm)DeltaMan wrote Do you honestly think "shareholders" or corporate types in big PLC offices are plotting the downfall of the 32 bus route in Newcastle??

No, I think they are interested in profits, not services.

(24 Feb 2022, 11:58 pm)DeltaMan wrote Do you honestly think "shareholders" or corporate types in big PLC offices are plotting the downfall of the 32 bus route in Newcastle??

Are the Monday to Friday early 32s still going to run? There is one early morning departure to Walker on the 32 currently, but I'm not sure if Nexus will replace this. Be interesting to see if Stagecoach or GCT win the 32 (I don't think any other bids are being considered).

(24 Feb 2022, 11:58 pm)DeltaMan wrote Do you honestly think "shareholders" or corporate types in big PLC offices are plotting the downfall of the 32 bus route in Newcastle??

Remember that policy is determined at the top of the corporate ladder. They will have determined that big savings and efficiencies are needed, to be achieved by all means necessary. The finer detail on how these savings are realised, is left to the local management.

People are angry apparently.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-23209949

(25 Feb 2022, 10:53 am)ASX_Terranova wrote People are angry apparently.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-23209949

can i just say that rob newcastle 39 isnt me!

(25 Feb 2022, 10:53 am)ASX_Terranova wrote People are angry apparently.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...e-23209949

Quiet before the pandemic and relied on a paint job to create desire beyond it.
Unsurprisingly, the paint job doesn't appear to have done that if numbers are still low. 

It doesn't seem obvious in that article, that they've used their initiative or done anything to find out why numbers are so low and find out what could be done to increase usage in a low income, high unemployment and potentially low car ownership area.

PB0003954/1226 Cancelled
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Metrocentre Asda to Sunnside Front Street via Whickham
Service number: 643
Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022


PB0003954/304 Registered
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Blyth Bus Station to Newcastle Haymarket Bus Station
Service number: 309 (310, X39, 311)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022

PB0003954/1151 Registered
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Hadrian Park to Howdon, Tynemouth Road via Wallsend
Service number: 41 (41a)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022

Looks like GNE have the 41/41A

-- from the same date:

PB0003954/1219
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X1 (X1A) Newcastle Peterlee/Dalton Park

(25 Feb 2022, 7:06 pm)Michael wrote PB0003954/1226 Cancelled
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Metrocentre Asda to Sunnside Front Street via Whickham
Service number: 643
Service type: Hail & Ride, Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022


PB0003954/304 Registered
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Blyth Bus Station to Newcastle Haymarket Bus Station
Service number: 309 (310, X39, 311)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022

PB0003954/1151 Registered
GO NORTH EAST LIMITED
Route: Hadrian Park to Howdon, Tynemouth Road via Wallsend
Service number: 41 (41a)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 27 Mar 2022

Looks like GNE have the 41/41A

-- from the same date:

PB0003954/1219
Variation GO NORTH EAST LIMITED X1 (X1A) Newcastle Peterlee/Dalton Park

The 41 is a commercial service as far as I'm aware bar evenings / Sundays as of now.

Shouldnt the 41/41A say cancelled for around Howdon?

(25 Feb 2022, 9:33 pm)V514DFT wrote Shouldnt the 41/41A say cancelled for around Howdon?

It does - "Revised to operate between Wallsend and Hadrian Park only, with 41A additionally serving Wiltshire Drive."

That's in the notes, guessing it's still every 15 minutes. 2 direct, 2 via Wiltshire Drive, hence the 41/41A numbering.

I sit corrected,must of just been me being blind again

(26 Feb 2022, 11:21 am)V514DFT wrote I sit corrected,must of just been me being blind again

Ah the registration still mentions Howdon, probably get updated sometime, if ever. The Arriva 1 (Northumberland) registration still mentions Amble even known it hasn't gone anywhere near for years now and the X7 registration still mentions the 363 which hasn't been around for over a decade now.

(24 Feb 2022, 10:32 pm)Adrian wrote Simple maths is a very simplistic way of looking at it, when in fact the two are very different issues.

Most deregulated markets have been operating in managed decline for the best part of 25 years. Happy enough to run anything profitable and to send that money straight back to investors. Any accountant can make most things either profitable or loss-making on a balance sheet, and it doesn't help that bus services are always looked at parochially. Anything that is a bit tight, even if its the odd trip, is quickly shoved in the local authorities' direction to sort out. Usually ending up in the situation that the tax payer then funds their business, if not farmed out to another operator. It doesn't increase the operators profits, it just decreases the overhead and cuts more customers off from their bus network.

I was trying to think of examples of other businesses that are able to do this. I wonder what my local shop decided they didn't want to open between 6am-10am for morning papers, should the tax payer fund them to do that instead? Or do we just admit that the model is broken?

On the other hand, TfL's financial issues are politically motivated and most people can see exactly what is happening. 

There's an aim to reduce Government funding to 0%, which is why any funding deals lately have been subject to making cuts. It's really no different to what was done to Councils up and down the country since 2010, and I assume TfL are in the same position as Councils whereby they must set a balanced budget every year or the Finance Officer has to issue a section 114 notice.

Who knows what the long-term plan is, but likely to make TfL services attractive enough to be deregulated, carved out and sold off.

Reduced usage of TfL bus services in Central London predate COVID and were as a result of the expansion of cycle lanes making it quicker to walk than catch a bus. Also there were changes to major junctions to make them "bus unfriendly", sorry that should be "more cyclist and pedestrian friendly".
e.g. at Ludgate Circus, because of the extra phases for cyclists, it can now take a bus 5 minutes to go from the bus stop outside City Thameslink station to getting across Ludgate Circus which is less than 100 metres. You are extremely lucky if you get straight across without stopping.

Then COVID came along and TfL did not reduce services quickly enough, even there was no usage. It was also decided to have centre door boarding and people didn't have to pay as they didn't want people going up to touch in on the ticket machine to keep people away from the drivers.

So TfL have not shone themselves with glory, even without the ongoing political problems.

Anyone know what buses will be allocated the 19, (I wonder if it'll be branded?) It needs a min Capacity of 60.

So it's a double deck operation?

(26 Feb 2022, 8:36 pm)Omega54 wrote Anyone know what buses will be allocated the 19, (I wonder if it'll be branded?) It needs a min Capacity of 80.

The buses needs to have capacity of 80. Scania N94UD OmniDekka then I'm guessing unless Percy Main gets a transfer for Volvo B9TL

(26 Feb 2022, 10:00 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote So it's a double deck operation?

Its single deck apparently

(26 Feb 2022, 10:00 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote So it's a double deck operation?

If it was, there’d be a few de-roofed buses going under the low bridge at Percy Main!

The contract requires buses with a minimum capacity of 60 - not 80 - so a Versa or Streetlite as a minimum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(26 Feb 2022, 8:36 pm)Omega54 wrote Anyone know what buses will be allocated the 19, (I wonder if it'll be branded?) It needs a min Capacity of 60.

Versa's surely, there's no Streetlite's spare from what I know. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5377 - 5379 from Hexham with Solo's going in the opposite direction, they seem dead half the time and Solo's have been running random boards already. It would also mean all the Quaycity batch are together.

Bring back 8294 to Percy Main (still never know why that was there)

(26 Feb 2022, 10:13 pm)Dan wrote If it was, there’d be a few de-roofed buses going under the low bridge at Percy Main!

The contract requires buses with a minimum capacity of 60 - not 80 - so a Versa or Streetlite as a minimum.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought no one was using the 19?, but it requires a minimum capacity of 60.......... NEXUS logic strikes again, gonna be another waste of a big bus.

(27 Feb 2022, 9:23 am)Michael wrote I thought no one was using the 19?, but it requires a minimum capacity of 60.......... NEXUS logic strikes again, gonna be another waste of a big bus.

What gives you the idea that no-one was using the 19?

I thought it was just not sufficient passengers to allow Go North East to operate it commercially - some journeys can be quite busy.

(26 Feb 2022, 10:39 pm)Storx wrote Versa's surely, there's no Streetlite's spare from what I know. Wouldn't be surprised if it's 5377 - 5379 from Hexham with Solo's going in the opposite direction, they seem dead half the time and Solo's have been running random boards already. It would also mean all the Quaycity batch are together.

Go North East don't have any spare Euro 6 Solos to operate service 684 - from 1 July it'll have to comply with the Newcastle Clean Air Zone, or the operator must have evidence that they have placed an order to upgrade the buses to Euro 6.

Currently the 74 does not comply either.

(27 Feb 2022, 9:45 am)busmanT wrote What gives you the idea that no-one was using the 19?

I thought it was just not sufficient passengers to allow Go North East to operate it commercially - some journeys can be quite busy.

Clearly didn't know that.. never use the service, I just assumed because NEXUS was gonna run it... it didn't need a 60 capacity bus... as GNE wasn't getting the passengers.

(27 Feb 2022, 9:59 am)Michael wrote Clearly didn't know that.. never use the service, I just assumed because NEXUS was gonna run it... it didn't need a 60 capacity bus... as GNE wasn't getting the passengers.

The Stagecoach 18 (Byker) has a minimum capacity of 84, so needs to be a double-deck (all day and all night!)

(27 Feb 2022, 9:46 am)Dan wrote Go North East don't have any spare Euro 6 Solos to operate service 684 - from 1 July it'll have to comply with the Newcastle Clean Air Zone, or the operator must have evidence that they have placed an order to upgrade the buses to Euro 6.

Currently the 74 does not comply either.

There's still the 2 spare Drifter streetlites, which aren't needed for the 60 - maybe they could be upgraded to Euro 6 as spares or are they planning on keeping 5369-5376 and 8339-8346 together?

(27 Feb 2022, 9:46 am)Dan wrote Go North East don't have any spare Euro 6 Solos to operate service 684 - from 1 July it'll have to comply with the Newcastle Clean Air Zone, or the operator must have evidence that they have placed an order to upgrade the buses to Euro 6.

Currently the 74 does not comply either.

I just assumed whatever the plan for the 74 was is going to be the same for the 684. (assuming the Zebra bus order being that evidence for Euro 6 or another alternative if it fails).

(27 Feb 2022, 10:04 am)Michael wrote There's still the 2 spare Drifter streetlites, which aren't needed for the 60 - maybe they could be upgraded to Euro 6 as spares or are they planning on keeping 5369-5376 and 8339-8346 together?

There is only 1 Spare Drifter. However there are 4 spare 16' Plate Streetlites off the Prince bishops when it was moved from every 10 to 12 mins. 
And now there is 4 more off when it was moved from 12 to 15.