(05 Mar 2022, 1:10 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote 5xx is South Tyneside isnt it?

Yeah. You beat me to my edits .

Added a little bit more to the original post.

Much preferred that system to be honest.
Clear clarity even beyond the first digit with punters tending to know that the second digit indicated a particular route or direction between at least two common, key points - 721, 722, 723, 724 etc rather than the 20 and 21 heading off in total opposite directions and having no common route other than North Road.

Not sure the 22 is used now, but the current 23 is a legacy of the 24, 25, 26, 27 and 28 that served Durham Road and were classed as local services in southern Gateshead. They had nothing to do with the current set up, where the 25 has absolutely nothing to do with the 26 or 27. But has some similarlity at one or two different points with the 28, 28a and 29.

The pattern was the same with the 18x series between Sunderland, Washington and/or Tyneside. There were clear variations between the likes of the 183, 184, 185, X85, 186, 187, 188 and 189 - but people knew that there were connections.

(05 Mar 2022, 12:55 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So what's the full numbering?.

2xx = Durham (204)
3xx = Wallsend / North Tyneside (306, 308, 309, 310, 333, 335, 392, the 1 used to be 301)
5xx = Sunderland (558)
6xx = Hexham (683, 684, 685 etc) 
7xx = Gateshead? (792, 794)
8xx = Northumberland (808, 815, 885)

North of the Tyne was I believe, might be wrong though.

1x - Walker
2x - South Tyne / Throckley
3x - West End
4x - Gt North Road
5x - South Tyne
6x - Killingworth
7x/8x - Outer West End
9x - South Tyne
1xx/2xx = Unused...?
3xx = Whitley Bay / Wallsend
4xx = Ashington / Morpeth
5xx = Alnwick / Berwick
6xx = Tyne Valley
7xx = South Tyne
8xx = North W Northumberland / Hunter's Buses
9xx = Misc

This goes back much further than reported.

In the early 1970s, United ran a large network of services in Northumberland and Durham (before Tyne and Wear was thought of). In both areas service numbers were usually single- or double digits.
This led to one anomaly in Newcastle where the Durham service 56 ran to Bishop Auckland and the Northumberland 56 ran to Dudley.
Between 1970 and 1971 United decided to renumber the Northumberland services with 3 digits. This was to get rid of anomalies and also to avoid using letter suffixes. The 1971 timetable shows services in Ashington, Blyth and Cramlington coming down to the Tyne allocated 3xx. 3xx extended along the Tyne Valley to Hexham and Carlisle. 4xx was also used in the Ashington/Blyth area (the present-day 308 was, for a while 408) and 4xx extended further north into Northumberland. 5xx was used for the Edinburgh services from Newcastle via Berwick, Wooler or Carter Bar.
There was also a large number of services operated by private operators and most of these were numbered 8xx (hence the 808 which still runs with that number today).
Around the time when the Metro started running in 1980, the Tyne and Wear Passenger Transport Executive changed many route numbers. As correctly reported above, these included 5xx for South Tyneside, 6xx for areas west of Gateshead on the south side of the Tyne, and 7xx for services further into County Durham.

Re the point raised about Nexus returning to the 3-digit format for North Tyneside: they have been using this for a long time, for example the (soon to disappear) 359 and the 319 which until last year linked North Shields through the Tunnel to Jarrow. One last point, new service 317 isn’t new. That number was allocated to the Whitley Bay – North Shields Ferry service around 1980 (see above). In recent years the service was amalgamated with the North Shields – Wallsend (and beyond) service (at one time the 313), then renumbered 17 then renumbered again to the present day 11.

(05 Mar 2022, 1:10 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote 5xx is South Tyneside isnt it?

Yea 5xx was south Tyneside with the 1xx wearside area


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(05 Mar 2022, 12:55 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote So what's the full numbering?.

2xx = Durham (204)
3xx = Wallsend / North Tyneside (306, 308, 309, 310, 333, 335, 392, the 1 used to be 301)
5xx = Sunderland (558)
6xx = Hexham (683, 684, 685 etc) 
7xx = Gateshead? (792, 794)
8xx = Northumberland (808, 815, 885)

1xx wearside, 5xx south Tyneside, 4xx scholar services, 7xx consett/Stanley/Chester


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I heard that the 17 (previously the 317) was a mash together of a few services,,parts of the 322/323,the 319 aswell,probably a few others ive missed,which is why the 17 became so long,the 342 has been about before too,arriva had it ,it ran from the Freeman Hospital along with the 340,not to be confused with GNE's 340 which became the 40,now known as the 41

(05 Mar 2022, 6:03 pm)V514DFT wrote I heard that the 17 (previously the 317) was a mash together of a few services,,parts of the 322/323,the 319 aswell,probably a few others ive missed,which is why the 17 became so long,the 342 has been about before too,arriva had it ,it ran from the Freeman Hospital along with the 340,not to be confused with GNE's 340 which became the 40,now known as the 41

It was commerical the 340/342 I believe.

Replaced by the 1, (Cresswall to Ashington), 2 (Red House Farm), 57 (Ashington to Cramlington) and 52 (Cramlington to Freeman). The Ashington to Newbiggin bit was never replaced nor was the part from Ashington to Bedlington via Bedlington Station.

http://travelnortheast.co.uk/downloads/b...-free-.pdf - Timetable.

I know there was hell on when they first done it as Ashington lost it's link to the Freeman.

(05 Mar 2022, 6:03 pm)V514DFT wrote I heard that the 17 (previously the 317) was a mash together of a few services,,parts of the 322/323,the 319 aswell,probably a few others ive missed,which is why the 17 became so long,the 342 has been about before too,arriva had it ,it ran from the Freeman Hospital along with the 340,not to be confused with GNE's 340 which became the 40,now known as the 41

Re the 17, see my comments above.

(05 Mar 2022, 5:30 pm)Ex-conductor wrote This goes back much further than reported.

In the early 1970s, United ran a large network of services in Northumberland and Durham (before Tyne and Wear was thought of). In both areas service numbers were usually single- or double digits.
This led to one anomaly in Newcastle where the Durham service 56 ran to Bishop Auckland and the Northumberland 56 ran to Dudley.
Between 1970 and 1971 United decided to renumber the Northumberland services with 3 digits. This was to get rid of anomalies and also to avoid using letter suffixes. The 1971 timetable shows services in Ashington, Blyth and Cramlington coming down to the Tyne allocated 3xx. 3xx extended along the Tyne Valley to Hexham and Carlisle. 4xx was also used in the Ashington/Blyth area (the present-day 308 was, for a while 408) and 4xx extended further north into Northumberland. 5xx was used for the Edinburgh services from Newcastle via Berwick, Wooler or Carter Bar.
There was also a large number of services operated by private operators and most of these were numbered 8xx (hence the 808 which still runs with that number today).
Around the time when the Metro started running in 1980, the Tyne and Wear Passenger Transport Executive changed many route numbers. As correctly reported above, these included 5xx for South Tyneside, 6xx for areas west of Gateshead on the south side of the Tyne, and 7xx for services further into County Durham.

Re the point raised about Nexus returning to the 3-digit format for North Tyneside: they have been using this for a long time, for example the (soon to disappear) 359 and the 319 which until last year linked North Shields through the Tunnel to Jarrow. One last point, new service 317 isn’t new. That number was allocated to the Whitley Bay – North Shields Ferry service around 1980 (see above). In recent years the service was amalgamated with the North Shields – Wallsend (and beyond) service (at one time the 313), then renumbered 17 then renumbered again to the present day 11.

Great post. That was a very  good local bus history that you posted. I have a few old PTE timetable booklets and I can’t help lamenting how good the system was back in the 70s and 80s ( up till ‘86). If only we could turn back time….

(05 Mar 2022, 9:23 pm)Economic505 wrote Great post. That was a very  good local bus history that you posted. I have a few old PTE timetable booklets and I can’t help lamenting how good the system was back in the 70s and 80s ( up till ‘86). If only we could turn back time….

Thanks for your reply. Just for the record, United's change to a 3-digit route numbering system in Northumberland was a little earlier than I thought, between 1967 and 1968. And yes, if only we could turn back time...

Fun fact, 342 is the first direct link between Wallsend and Newbiggin Hall / Westerhope since Stagecoach withdrew the 49 (Wallsend to Throckley Outer Line)

Still surprised Nexus haven't put out the rest of there changes yet

(08 Mar 2022, 9:59 pm)Train8261 wrote Still surprised Nexus haven't put out the rest of there changes yet

https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/27march2022

643 extended to Asda at the Metrocentre

The service will continue to operate hourly, Monday - Saturday daytime (between 0840 - 1440) with minor timetable changes in the Metrocentre area.

(12 Mar 2022, 11:29 pm)Michael wrote https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/27march2022

643 extended to Asda at the Metrocentre

The service will continue to operate hourly, Monday - Saturday daytime (between 0840 - 1440) with minor timetable changes in the Metrocentre area.

These changes have been quite a blow for GCT:

Losing: 6/552, 13, 333, 359, K1/K2, W1A, W2 and W3 as well as their evening/sunday work on the 11, 41 and 32A. 

Admittedly they've gained the 342 but with 2 buses off the 335 it's not a massive win - think they're losing about 7-ish buses worth.

(12 Mar 2022, 11:29 pm)Michael wrote https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/27march2022

643 extended to Asda at the Metrocentre

The service will continue to operate hourly, Monday - Saturday daytime (between 0840 - 1440) with minor timetable changes in the Metrocentre area.

Already serves Asda Michael, do you not mean route from Asda amended to serve IKEA also.

(13 Mar 2022, 7:40 am)ifm001 wrote Already serves Asda Michael, do you not mean route from Asda amended to serve IKEA also.

Yes, dunno why I put Asda... -.-

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(13 Mar 2022, 1:08 am)peter wrote These changes have been quite a blow for GCT:

Losing: 6/552, 13, 333, 359, K1/K2, W1A, W2 and W3 as well as their evening/sunday work on the 11, 32A, 41/41A, 42/42A. 

Admittedly they've gained the 342 but with 2 buses off the 335 it's not a massive win - think they're losing about 7-ish buses worth.

The new 41/41a will operate up to every 15 minutes Monday-Saturday daytime with these trips operated by Go North East. During evening/Sunday hours there will be an hourly 41a service provided operated under contract to Nexus by Gateshead Central Taxis

They're still running the 41A.
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They could gain services back from the Sunderland, Washington & Gateshead changes in May though.

(13 Mar 2022, 8:34 am)Michael wrote The new 41/41a will operate up to every 15 minutes Monday-Saturday daytime with these trips operated by Go North East. During evening/Sunday hours there will be an hourly 41a service provided operated under contract to Nexus by Gateshead Central Taxis

They're still running the 41A.
--------------
They could gain services back from the Sunderland, Washington & Gateshead changes in May though.

Ah I missed the 41A, looks like that will interwork with an evening/sunday 342, bus still less work for them. Yeah they could, will be interesting to see what happens with those. But certainly around Newcastle and North Tyneside they'll be much less prevalent than they were over the past couple years.

(12 Mar 2022, 11:29 pm)Michael wrote https://www.nexus.org.uk/bus/27march2022

643 extended to Asda at the Metrocentre

The service will continue to operate hourly, Monday - Saturday daytime (between 0840 - 1440) with minor timetable changes in the Metrocentre area.

The 335 timetable is very unclear.

It mentions Murton Village and Silverlink as additions to the route, but no mention of these on the timetable at all?

(14 Mar 2022, 2:45 pm)Thomas12 wrote The 335 timetable is very unclear.

It mentions Murton Village and Silverlink as additions to the route, but no mention of these on the timetable at all?

These locations are shown on the Nexus timetable.

(14 Mar 2022, 2:53 pm)Ex-conductor wrote These locations are shown on the Nexus timetable.

I can't see them.

They're also not on bustimes or Traveline versions - https://bustimes.org/services/335-four-l...2022-03-28

So it's unclear which route it's actually taking.

Edit - apologies, just noticed there are two different versions of the timetable.

This is the one I was looking at - https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...270322.pdf
But this one mentions it - https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...22_new.pdf

(14 Mar 2022, 2:58 pm)Thomas12 wrote I can't see them.

They're also not on bustimes or Traveline versions - https://bustimes.org/services/335-four-l...2022-03-28

So it's unclear which route it's actually taking.

Edit - apologies, just noticed there are two different versions of the timetable.

This is the one I was looking at - https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...270322.pdf
But this one mentions it - https://www.nexus.org.uk/sites/default/f...22_new.pdf

The 335 is gonna be one hell of a long route now

(17 Mar 2022, 8:34 am)cbma06 wrote North East bus cuts 'tsunami' put on hold – but it's too late for Newcastle and North Tyneside routes

A new government funding pledge has given some services a temporary reprieve, but cuts already planned for the end of this month will not be stopped

A “tsunami” of cuts to bus services for most of the North East is on hold for now – but passengers in Newcastle and North Tyneside will not be so lucky.

It has been expected that the region’s bus operators would be making major cutbacks to routes across the area, equating to up to 17% of their mileage, due to a funding crisis amid reduced passenger numbers caused by the pandemic. But many under-threat routes appear to have been given a temporary stay of execution, after a new government funding announcement earlier this month.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor...GSl72OtkzA


Does this mean the cuts to Sunderland and Gateshead service won’t be going through until October?


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North Tyneside was gonna fail anyway. Its just not cared about

(17 Mar 2022, 8:39 am)Train8261 wrote North Tyneside was gonna fail anyway. Its just not cared about

Has the North Tyneside network ever been any good (and sustainable)? At least since the Metro was introduced?

(17 Mar 2022, 9:39 am)streetdeckfan wrote Has the North Tyneside network ever been any good (and sustainable)? At least since the Metro was introduced?

I suspect the answer is Yes, and can be confirmed by looking in the bible. The bible in this case being the TW PTE timetable books from the early 1980s. The time before Thatcher started screwing with transport. Her legacy still persists .

(17 Mar 2022, 9:39 am)streetdeckfan wrote Has the North Tyneside network ever been any good (and sustainable)? At least since the Metro was introduced?

Was great years ago. But recently before covid. Don't know was just gonna fail. You could tell the second GNE lost the contract to GCT

(17 Mar 2022, 10:09 am)Train8261 wrote Was great years ago. But recently before covid. Don't know was just gonna fail. You could tell the second GNE lost the contract to GCT

If the network was great, why was it largely secured? Surely GNE (or someone else) would be running it commercially, and it wouldn't be coming down to being contracted to GCT.

(17 Mar 2022, 9:50 am)Economic505 wrote I suspect the answer is Yes, and can be confirmed by looking in the bible. The bible in this case being the TW PTE timetable books from the early 1980s. The time before Thatcher started screwing with transport. Her legacy still persists .

It may have had a good timetable, but I mean were passenger numbers high enough to be sustainable?

(17 Mar 2022, 11:56 am)Adrian wrote If the network was great, why was it largely secured? Surely GNE (or someone else) would be running it commercially, and it wouldn't be coming down to being contracted to GCT.

This was my thinking

(17 Mar 2022, 9:39 am)streetdeckfan wrote Has the North Tyneside network ever been any good (and sustainable)? At least since the Metro was introduced?

The biggest problem with North Tyneside is it's so fragmented. Right now there's Arriva, GNE, Stagecoach, GCT and the Metro (soon add Phoenix aswell) and there's absolutely no sensible ticketing to use in between them for the odd journey so it gets expensive fast. Not to mention Network One tickets are horribly advertised and some operators are terrible (GCT).

It doesn't help that the profitable Stagecoach routes all end in Wallsend and then GNE pick up the rumps to the East from there either. In an ideal world the likes of the 317 would extend onto the 40 or 41 would extend onto the 12 (similar to the 62/63 in Westerhope for example) but it'll never happen when there's two operators. The 22 being a prime example of something useful happening and giving Howdon direct services through.

(17 Mar 2022, 10:30 pm)Storx wrote The biggest problem with North Tyneside is it's so fragmented. Right now there's Arriva, GNE, Stagecoach, GCT and the Metro (soon add Phoenix aswell) and there's absolutely no sensible ticketing to use in between them for the odd journey so it gets expensive fast. Not to mention Network One tickets are horribly advertised and some operators are terrible (GCT).

It doesn't help that the profitable Stagecoach routes all end in Wallsend and then GNE pick up the rumps to the East from there either. In an ideal world the likes of the 317 would extend onto the 40 or 41 would extend onto the 12 (similar to the 62/63 in Westerhope for example) but it'll never happen when there's two operators. The 22 being a prime example of something useful happening and giving Howdon direct services through.

My thinking is that the 342 would be better suited to Stagecoach and the 317 to either Arriva or GNE. But still good to see Stagecoach (and the other of the big 3) securing contracts and not to GCT and the likes of which through ticketing and easier journeys are not applicable. 

I think the 317 should've been added onto the 18 with this being re-routed to wallsend like it used to before the Q3. As telling people between St Peters Basin and Walker to use the 12 instead is preposterous.

(18 Mar 2022, 12:36 am)logidoodah wrote My thinking is that the 342 would be better suited to Stagecoach and the 317 to either Arriva or GNE. But still good to see Stagecoach (and the other of the big 3) securing contracts and not to GCT and the likes of which through ticketing and easier journeys are not applicable. 

I think the 317 should've been added onto the 18 with this being re-routed to wallsend like it used to before the Q3. As telling people between St Peters Basin and Walker to use the 12 instead is preposterous.

The 317 is a funny one imo as the North Shields to Wallsend is best ran by Stagecoach but the other half is better ran by Arriva. Hard one to really pick the right operator without splitting it.

It's poor the Wallsend links for St Peters Basin like.

Personally though the 18 would be better merged with the 6/7 and the Freeman -> BT Call Centre been covered by an extended 38 every 30 mins imo. Would give Stoneleigh Avenue a faster service to Newcastle (they already have Byker) and give Heaton / Byker a direct link through to Gosforth and beyond including the beloved Kingston Park on here and just get arid of it altogether similar to the 62 extension in West Newcastle.

Spotted this on the Stagecoach site under the changes:


Ahead of the changes, there’ll also be a number of drop in sessions hosted by our colleagues at Nexus. If you’ve any questions, just pop along!

Monday 21 March, 13.00 - 14.00, Newburn Library, High Street, Newburn, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE15 8LN

Monday 21 March, 14.30 - 15.30, The Lemington Centre, Tyneview, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE15 8DE

Tuesday 22 March, 10.00 - 11.00, Outer West Library, West Denton Way, Denton Park, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE5 2QZ

Tuesday 22 March, 11.30 - 12.30, The Percy Arms, Queens Road, Walbottle, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE15 8JB

Tuesday 22 March, 13.30 - 14.30, Westerhope Community Association, Hillhead Road, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE5 1NE

Wednesday 23 March, 09.00 - 10.00, Walker Activity Centre, Wharrier Street, Walker, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE6 3BR

Wednesday 23 March 11.00 - 13.00, North Shields Customer First Centre, Northumberland Square North Shields, NE30 1QU

Thursday 24 March, 13.00 - 15.00, The White Swan Centre, Citadel East, Killingworth, NE12 6SS

Friday 25 March, 09.00 - 11.00, Whitley Bay Customer First Centre, York Road, Whitley Bay, NE26 1AB

Friday 25 March, 12.00 - 14.00, Wallsend Customer First Centre, 16 The Forum, Wallsend, NE28 8JR

Friday 25 March, 14.30 - 15.30, Gosforth Library, Regent Farm Road, Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE3 3HD.