The 20 has had it branding changed to Upto every 15 mins. 

So 4 more 16' plates are chanced to be painted, or maybe just 2 to have 2 branded spares.

Personally I would have Sunderland-Durham every 10 (6ph), with it extending to South Sheilds (3ph) every 20 mins.

Isn't the South Shields to Durham as busy as the other half. I've heard people say the old 35 and variations used to be the most profitable route in the area before it was split up. There's already 6 BPH between Durham and Sunderland including the X20, 8 between Houghton and Sunderland including the 55 aswell. Not sure how many buses are needed along there.

(07 Apr 2022, 8:55 pm)Storx wrote Isn't the South Shields to Durham as busy as the other half. I've heard people say the old 35 and variations used to be the most profitable route in the area before it was split up. There's already 6 BPH between Durham and Sunderland including the X20, 8 between Houghton and Sunderland including the 55 aswell. Not sure how many buses are needed along there.

20 is always busy from Durham to Sunderland, even when it was every 12 mins, Sunderland to South Sheilds is pretty much 1/4 full bus most of the time, the odd trip I have seen with 0 on.

They're probably all waiting for the X20. That is always busy, when I catch it.

Sunderland to South shields, people aren't doing the full route and there are other options if you want to, which may be better suited to your final destination.

How does the 20 work,is it South Shields-Durham every 15 minutes?

(08 Apr 2022, 10:21 am)V514DFT wrote How does the 20 work,is it South Shields-Durham every 15 minutes?

Yes its every 15 minutes across the route but the X20 and 55 between Sunderland Houghton are meant to work with the 20 so they is a bus every 7/8 minutes on that section of the route

Do South Shields really need a bus to Durham every 15 minutes,surely every 30 would suffice?, but it could remain every 15 Durham-Sunderland

(08 Apr 2022, 4:44 pm)V514DFT wrote Do South Shields really need a bus to Durham every 15 minutes,surely every 30 would suffice?, but it could remain every 15 Durham-Sunderland

They have a bus Every 10 Minutes if you include the 50 going via Washington/Chester-Le-Street.

(08 Apr 2022, 4:44 pm)V514DFT wrote Do South Shields really need a bus to Durham every 15 minutes,surely every 30 would suffice?, but it could remain every 15 Durham-Sunderland

Durham to Sunderland is still really busy every 15mins, South Sheilds does get really busy when there is one 20 missing so that would most likely need to be every 20 mins

(08 Apr 2022, 10:30 am)Ds1197 wrote Yes its every 15 minutes across the route but the X20 and 55 between Sunderland Houghton are meant to work with the 20 so they is a bus every 7/8 minutes on that section of the route

Except they essentially all follow each other. Add in the 35 and it's like a giant multi coloured conga!

(08 Apr 2022, 6:30 pm)Andreos1 wrote Except they essentially all follow each other. Add in the 35 and it's like a giant multi coloured conga!

Why not have a bus every 5 mins, Stagecoach has one every 4 mins.

Look at it more from the point of how many buses does that release?

I take it that this means they aren't going to be rebranding the Prince Bishops for a while seeing as they updated the old branding?

(09 Apr 2022, 7:51 am)Jack Gill wrote I take it that this means they aren't going to be rebranding the Prince Bishops for a while seeing as they updated the old branding?

Only change to the branding was just changing the 12 to a 15 in the circle on the cant rail (and maybe a small sticker on the bonnet, can't remember?). They've already done this once when the frequency dropped from 10 minutes to 12 minutes.

Ah, thought they would have changed it all like the Drifter.

(07 Apr 2022, 8:55 pm)Storx wrote Isn't the South Shields to Durham as busy as the other half. I've heard people say the old 35 and variations used to be the most profitable route in the area before it was split up. There's already 6 BPH between Durham and Sunderland including the X20, 8 between Houghton and Sunderland including the 55 aswell. Not sure how many buses are needed along there.

Just wonder why it changed the old 35 at the time, the 35 seems losing all the sparkles now. The 20 seems always doing good busienss, did not expect it will have frequency cut...

Here is what I think will happen....

The 4 spare Prince Bishop Streetlites will be repainted to Sunderlandistrict Blue.
The Citaro that still has the livery with the people on the side from when it was branded for the 9 will be painted as a Cherry.
The Fab 57 Citaro that was meant to be painted for the Cherry will have its repairs cancelled and withdrawn instead.
Any other vehicles displaced from the 61 will be withdrawn or just be used as spare vehicles.

Whilst talking about the 61, it makes no sense to me that the 61 & 60 have completely different brands, surely they could have the same brand as they have a lot of common route

(11 Apr 2022, 8:08 pm)Wybus wrote Whilst talking about the 61, it makes no sense to me that the 61 & 60 have completely different brands, surely they could have the same brand as they have a lot of common route

They were, then they went into Simplicty Livery I think, then all grey, then corporate then THe 9 and now BLUE.

(11 Apr 2022, 8:08 pm)Wybus wrote Whilst talking about the 61, it makes no sense to me that the 61 & 60 have completely different brands, surely they could have the same brand as they have a lot of common route

They used to be, and I've been thinking this since they replaced the Cadets some 9 years ago. I think it must've been to do with the StreetLite order they decided to separate the 2 routes instead of ordering another 5 SLs?

(11 Apr 2022, 8:08 pm)Wybus wrote Whilst talking about the 61, it makes no sense to me that the 61 & 60 have completely different brands, surely they could have the same brand as they have a lot of common route

It's not the only bus route Sunderland has a few of them imo.

The 20 and 55 should ideally be one brand or similar as it's the same route from Houghton and Sunderland which is a fair chunk of the route. Similar to the 2 and 39/39A which is the same route from Chester Road all the way round to Grangetown.

Branding wise I always liked Trent Barton's Sixes would work well with the 2 and 39/39A imo - https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/sixes. Have something like:

2 - 2.1
2A - 2.2
39 - 2.3
39A - 2.4

and push the 7.5 minute frequency through the core section with a route diagram of what the .x means as let's be honest it's only going to be locals using the outliers really anyway.

Ironically the 8/78 shouldn't be the same brand they're two different bus routes which make no sense being together which makes the branding in Stanley / Sunderland and Chester Le Street, 3 of the main points a total waste of time.

(11 Apr 2022, 8:41 pm)F114TML wrote They used to be, and I've been thinking this since they replaced the Cadets some 9 years ago. I think it must've been to do with the StreetLite order they decided to separate the 2 routes instead of ordering another 5 SLs?

I'd imagine 60's are due new vehicles soon, maybe that could be a replacement for the 08 Citaros. 

Aswell, the 09 Versa's two of them have returned to Deptford 05/06. However the interior of versas as they get older look an awful colour near the windows.

(11 Apr 2022, 8:54 pm)Storx wrote It's not the only bus route Sunderland has a few of them imo.

The 20 and 55 should ideally be one brand or similar as it's the same route from Houghton and Sunderland which is a fair chunk of the route. Similar to the 2 and 39/39A which is the same route from Chester Road all the way round to Grangetown.

Branding wise I always liked Trent Barton's Sixes would work well with the 2 and 39/39A imo - https://www.trentbarton.co.uk/services/sixes. Have something like:

2 - 2.1
2A - 2.2
39 - 2.3
39A - 2.4

and push the 7.5 minute frequency through the core section with a route diagram of what the .x means as let's be honest it's only going to be locals using the outliers really anyway.

Ironically the 8/78 shouldn't be the same brand they're two different bus routes which make no sense being together which makes the branding in Stanley / Sunderland and Chester Le Street, 3 of the main points a total waste of time.

Oh dont like that Sixes thing at all - would be better if they were consecutively numbered though on similar routes IMO - like the 61-64 in Killingworth used to be etc.  More annoying though is a service using a single Service number with multiple route variations/termini (X-lines X1, Stagecoach 3 in Sunderland, now the 62 in Newcastle) - there's no reason for it as there are plenty of unused numbers and just causes confusion.

2/39 have literally just been removed from the common brand of Black Cats.

(11 Apr 2022, 11:01 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Oh dont like that Sixes thing at all - would be better if they were consecutively numbered though on similar routes IMO - like the 61-64 in Killingworth used to be etc.  More annoying though is a service using a single Service number with multiple route variations/termini (X-lines X1, Stagecoach 3 in Sunderland, now the 62 in Newcastle) - there's no reason for it as there are plenty of unused numbers and just causes confusion.

2/39 have literally just been removed from the common brand of Black Cats.

Yeah no arguments there, agreed with consecutive numbers either though mind. Either are just the same really.

Agreed agreed with multiple variations mind very confusing for a passenger especially the X1 which diverts in total different directions. I'm not a big fan of A's either when they're clearly two different routes 10/10A/10B, 28/28A, 47/47A in particular for GNE. Arriva are bad for it aswell imo 57/57A (both of them), 3/3A (Darlington), 17/17A (Stockton) are particular bad imo. The last having a split route aswell to make it even worse.

(11 Apr 2022, 5:52 pm)Rapidsnap wrote Here is what I think will happen....

The 4 spare Prince Bishop Streetlites will be repainted to Sunderlandistrict Blue.
The Citaro that still has the livery with the people on the side from when it was branded for the 9 will be painted as a Cherry.
The Fab 57 Citaro that was meant to be painted for the Cherry will have its repairs cancelled and withdrawn instead.
Any other vehicles displaced from the 61 will be withdrawn or just be used as spare vehicles.

Streetlite are inevitable for the 61 now, the Mercs must be next to be eliminated, two Cherry's have been oos for two months, 5293 is never going to happen, 5289 is dead and reliability is rock bottom.

Perhaps more Streetlites can be found on the market to get the X20/35/55 converted.

(12 Apr 2022, 7:43 am)54APhotography wrote Streetlite are inevitable for the 61 now, the Mercs must be next to be eliminated, two Cherry's have been oos for two months, 5293 is never going to happen, 5289 is dead and reliability is rock bottom.

Perhaps more Streetlites can be found on the market to get the X20/35/55 converted.

Are the Mercs even that bad? Ignoring all the usual caveats of Bustimes the Versa's seem much worse. Percy Main is really struggling as 4 of the Q3's are off the road. There also appears to be 4/10 VOR at Deptford aswell. There's 6/26 VOR for the Merc's in comparison which given their age isn't that bad. There's always a lot of buses off the road at for one reason or another.

(12 Apr 2022, 7:43 am)54APhotography wrote Streetlite are inevitable for the 61 now, the Mercs must be next to be eliminated, two Cherry's have been oos for two months, 5293 is never going to happen, 5289 is dead and reliability is rock bottom.

Perhaps more Streetlites can be found on the market to get the X20/35/55 converted.

Or perhaps buses re-allocated from further service cuts?

(12 Apr 2022, 9:04 am)busmanT wrote Or perhaps buses re-allocated from further service cuts?

What further is there to cut. 

Maybe the 8 60's could get onto the 35/35A. Then 4 Prince Bishops on 61, 4 Ex Prince Bishops on 55, Then 10' Plate X20's are holding up alright for now. 

If you replace deptford two of deptfords most profitable routes, 60 & 20 that leaves 22 buses to replace the older ones.

(12 Apr 2022, 9:32 am)Unber43 wrote What further is there to cut. 

Maybe the 8 60's could get onto the 35/35A. Then 4 Prince Bishops on 61, 4 Ex Prince Bishops on 55, Then 10' Plate X20's are holding up alright for now. 

If you replace deptford two of deptfords most profitable routes, 60 & 20 that leaves 22 buses to replace the older ones.

There won't be any new buses coming to GNE anytime soon, bus companies aren't making money the last thing they will be doing is buying things when they don't need them.

In the terms of the cuts no doubt the likes of 5, 6, 9, 26, 28/28A, 33, 38, 39/39A, 55, 67, 69, Peterlee Locals, Washington Locals, Consett Locals are the types of services which are at risk when the Covid money dries up. They're the type of services which have already been cut in North Tyneside and most are already subsidised at some point. That's speculation though.

(12 Apr 2022, 9:32 am)Unber43 wrote What further is there to cut. 

Maybe the 8 60's could get onto the 35/35A. Then 4 Prince Bishops on 61, 4 Ex Prince Bishops on 55, Then 10' Plate X20's are holding up alright for now. 

If you replace deptford two of deptfords most profitable routes, 60 & 20 that leaves 22 buses to replace the older ones.

I can see the 55 being withdrawn in October changes, as the 55 route route and frequency been covered by the doubled up freq X1 between Peterlee and Houghton with onward travel for passengers changing at Houghton for Sunderland on 20/x20, rest of the 55 route covered by other GNE and SNE existing routes.


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