Well I'm not going to get hung up on it because I don't really care (I'm just getting confused by the inconsistency), but also because my original point still stands. We're losing our direct bus to Peterlee, and I'm doubtful anyone's going to walk to Dalton Park to get access to one. Also i don't think many people consider it part of Murton anyway.

Whilst Dalton Park may technically be in Murton, I think we’re perhaps taking the original poster’s point a little too literally. Whilst the X6 links Dalton Park with Peterlee, that’s not helping those living in Murton, except perhaps those living in Wembley (East Moor Estate) or the new(ish) houses on the Fairfield Court development. The proposed loss of the 62, means the majority of Murton has no link to Peterlee or Easington Village and South Hetton, for that matter.

For what’s it’s worth, I’ve always classed Dalton Park as being in Murton but the sign for “Murton” is actually after Dalton Park… Also try Googling Dalton-le-Dale whilst you’re on. Google will rightly show the vast boundaries of the civil parish which extends up to include the Dalton Heights, Dalton Grange and the new Bellway homes estates. But locally you’d be laughed out of any pub in SR7 by trying to claim you’re living in Dalton-le-Dale when you live next door to the Esso or on the back of the Avenue. Technically true, yes but 99% of people class that top end as just ‘Seaham’.

(24 May 2022, 10:07 pm)Drifter60 wrote Whilst Dalton Park may technically be in Murton, I think we’re perhaps taking the original poster’s point a little too literally. Whilst the X6 links Dalton Park with Peterlee, that’s not helping those living in Murton, except perhaps those living in Wembley (East Moor Estate) or the new(ish) houses on the Fairfield Court development. The proposed loss of the 62, means the majority of Murton has no link to Peterlee or Easington Village and South Hetton, for that matter.

For what’s it’s worth, I’ve always classed Dalton Park as being in Murton but the sign for “Murton” is actually after Dalton Park… Also try Googling Dalton-le-Dale whilst you’re on. Google will rightly show the vast boundaries of the civil parish which extends up to include the Dalton Heights, Dalton Grange and the new Bellway homes estates. But locally you’d be laughed out of any pub in SR7 by trying to claim you’re living in Dalton-le-Dale when you live next door to the Esso or on the back of the Avenue. Technically true, yes but 99% of people class that top end as just ‘Seaham’.

I would keep the 62 and get rid of the x6, looks like GNE wants DCC to secure some of east Durham network again of what GNE took on commercially.

Maybe DCC doesn’t want to pay thousands of pounds to move road signs

It’s just like when Aldi closed the Peterlee town centre store and built a new one at the bottom half of Yoden Way next to Horden , you get the people from Horden saying it’s in Horden but the new store is in the boundary of Peterlee.


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(25 May 2022, 5:24 am)cbma06 wrote I would keep the 62 and get rid of the x6, looks like GNE wants DCC to secure some of east Durham network again of what GNE took on commercially.

Maybe DCC doesn’t want to pay thousands of pounds to move road signs

It’s just like when Aldi closed the Peterlee town centre store and built a new one at the bottom half of Yoden Way next to Horden , you get the people from Horden saying it’s in Horden but the new store is in the boundary of Peterlee.


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Not sure I agree with the X6/62 swap. The X6 is about giving a link between Peterlee and Seaham that doesn't go around the world whereas the 62 isn't really an alternative. It's two totally different routes imo and the Easington end of the 62 is covered by the more frequent and quicker 22/23 anyway.

I personally dont see the need for the 24,why split the 20 with this new 24 when they could easily reinstate the 35

(25 May 2022, 9:05 am)V514DFT wrote I personally dont see the need for the 24,why split the 20 with this new 24 when they could easily reinstate the 35

Because that would be logical (and probably involve them admitting it was a mistake). Also the 35 still goes as far as Town End Farm, so they mustn't be keen on removing that bit.


Re the 62, I'd just undo the changes they made to it in September (maybe keep the Sunderland extension). I don't see why it should be a choice between X6 and 62 - they're two very different routes.

(25 May 2022, 10:30 am)F114TML wrote Because that would be logical (and probably involve them admitting it was a mistake). Also the 35 still goes as far as Town End Farm, so they mustn't be keen on removing that bit.


Re the 62, I'd just undo the changes they made to it in September (maybe keep the Sunderland extension). I don't see why it should be a choice between X6 and 62 - they're two very different routes.

Don't they normally wheel out the 'experimental' or 'due to passenger requests' patter when they need to reverse a decision?

(25 May 2022, 11:19 am)Andreos1 wrote Don't they normally wheel out the 'experimental' or 'due to passenger requests' patter when they need to reverse a decision?

I've seen "Didn't result in the growth we wanted" before. Not sure it can be called experimental given it was 7 or 8 years ago now.

(25 May 2022, 9:05 am)V514DFT wrote I personally dont see the need for the 24,why split the 20 with this new 24 when they could easily reinstate the 35

Maybe when the 24 gets to shields it does the 26 then back as a 24 from shields to Sunderland , same as the 5 , so there do 24-26-24 / 24-5-24?


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(25 May 2022, 11:35 am)F114TML wrote I've seen "Didn't result in the growth we wanted" before. Not sure it can be called experimental given it was 7 or 8 years ago now.

I've not seen that one to be fair. 

I do love the passenger requests one though.
As if passengers actually have any say in re-routing the 78 via Pelaw Bank...
Meanwhile passengers in Pelton Fell are requesting a bus (any bus) and are being ignored.

No doubt passengers in Murton, vast swathes of Birtley and Gateshead are in the same position!
Heck, there was entire communities who requested the return of the 21a and another requesting the reintroduction of the link between Herrington Burn and Biddick School/St Roberts!
Told in no uncertain terms that their passenger requests were not likely to be successful.

(25 May 2022, 11:49 am)Andreos1 wrote I've not seen that one to be fair. 

I do love the passenger requests one though.
As if passengers actually have any say in re-routing the 78 via Pelaw Bank...
Meanwhile passengers in Pelton Fell are requesting a bus (any bus) and are being ignored.

No doubt passengers in Murton, vast swathes of Birtley and Gateshead are in the same position!
Heck, there was entire communities who requested the return of the 21a and another requesting the reintroduction of the link between Herrington Burn and Biddick School/St Roberts!
Told in no uncertain terms that their passenger requests were not likely to be successful.

Scroll to service 9:
https://www.gonortheast.co.uk/getting-bu...Sunderland

There also appears to be a lot of talk of "discussions with stakeholders" which is much more believable.

I guess another unforseen circumstance to this is it's likely the current provider (GNE) won't win a lot of the contracts. Passengers will get pushed to the hub and spoke model (which although lamentable is fine if you have value tickets) but you're likely going to end up needing to buy a more expensive Explorer or Network One ticket (dependent on your area) to cover your new journey

So not only are passengers now suffering a poorer reduced service its costing them more via fares and to boot, taxes!

Better than Ever! (profits)

(25 May 2022, 12:58 pm)Ambassador wrote I guess another unforseen circumstance to this is it's likely the current provider (GNE) won't win a lot of the contracts. Passengers will get pushed to the hub and spoke model (which although lamentable is fine if you have value tickets) but you're likely going to end up needing to buy a more expensive Explorer or Network One ticket (dependent on your area) to cover your new journey

So not only are passengers now suffering a poorer reduced service its costing them more via fares and to boot, taxes!

Better than Ever! (profits)

You've stole my thunder a bit..... If say the 29 is run by nexus as a secured service, and ( god forbid) GNE win the contract would the GNE tickets be available to buy and use cause ( i by the Gateshead day ticket at the moment) I'm sure when the original 29 was secured ( many moons ago) I'm quite sure you couldn't.  So if SNE won the 29 i would have to go from paying 410 to get to work to 7.80 for a day rover.  nearly a 100% increase.  Back to the car i think

(25 May 2022, 12:58 pm)Ambassador wrote I guess another unforseen circumstance to this is it's likely the current provider (GNE) won't win a lot of the contracts. Passengers will get pushed to the hub and spoke model (which although lamentable is fine if you have value tickets) but you're likely going to end up needing to buy a more expensive Explorer or Network One ticket (dependent on your area) to cover your new journey

So not only are passengers now suffering a poorer reduced service its costing them more via fares and to boot, taxes!

Better than Ever! (profits)

I'd argue the Network One ticket at its current price should be front and centre of all ticketing in Tyne and Wear, with an "own brand" operator specific ticket if it works out cheaper for the user.

(25 May 2022, 1:19 pm)Rob44 wrote You've stole my thunder a bit..... If say the 29 is run by nexus as a secured service, and ( god forbid) GNE win the contract would the GNE tickets be available to buy and use cause ( i by the Gateshead day ticket at the moment) I'm sure when the original 29 was secured ( many moons ago) I'm quite sure you couldn't.  So if SNE won the 29 i would have to go from paying 410 to get to work to 7.80 for a day rover.  nearly a 100% increase.  Back to the car i think

you should be able to buy Go North East products if they were to win the contract for the 29 for example - you can on the 19 which is secured by Nexus for instance. 

I couldn’t imagine Stagecoach bidding for contracts in Gateshead but you never know I suppose - I’d assume it will be GNE or GCT in that area.

(25 May 2022, 12:58 pm)Ambassador wrote I guess another unforseen circumstance to this is it's likely the current provider (GNE) won't win a lot of the contracts. Passengers will get pushed to the hub and spoke model (which although lamentable is fine if you have value tickets) but you're likely going to end up needing to buy a more expensive Explorer or Network One ticket (dependent on your area) to cover your new journey

So not only are passengers now suffering a poorer reduced service its costing them more via fares and to boot, taxes! 

Better than Ever! (profits)

Obviously this is something that I've been wittering on about for years now.
It's so obvious there are flaws in that system and I'm pretty certain it has had a hand in getting where we are now. 
That situation is only going to get worse in the current climate and with the proposals we see now.

At what point will the penny drop? It hasn't worked in the past for passengers, it doesn't work for passengers as it stands and it won't ever work for passengers in the future.

It seems like there's an almost determined obsession to make hub and spoke work. Look at the impact of that obsession?

Passengers can get from a - b cheaply, efficiently, directly and quickly in the car or on bike. Maybe even a taxi.
Going from a - b via all of the other letters in the alphabet and having an expensive, slow, indirect and not very quick bus isn't an attractive offer for many. However many bus lanes or priority measures councils fork out on at the behest of operators.

(25 May 2022, 2:40 pm)Thomas12 wrote you should be able to buy Go North East products if they were to win the contract for the 29 for example - you can on the 19 which is secured by Nexus for instance. 

I couldn’t imagine Stagecoach bidding for contracts in Gateshead but you never know I suppose - I’d assume it will be GNE or GCT in that area.

Very little dead mileage for someone like JH or Stanley. May have an impact on any bids they look to make.

(25 May 2022, 2:40 pm)Thomas12 wrote you should be able to buy Go North East products if they were to win the contract for the 29 for example - you can on the 19 which is secured by Nexus for instance. 

I couldn’t imagine Stagecoach bidding for contracts in Gateshead but you never know I suppose - I’d assume it will be GNE or GCT in that area.

That's good to know about the 19.  I suspect GNE are confident of winning these " contract" from they way they reply on twitter and Facebook to queries.  

I wouldn't have though SNE would have bid for the 317 as they don't really have a presence in N shields and that area.

Not sure if I'd rather have GNE or GCT!!!  stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea

(25 May 2022, 2:40 pm)Thomas12 wrote you should be able to buy Go North East products if they were to win the contract for the 29 for example - you can on the 19 which is secured by Nexus for instance. 

I couldn’t imagine Stagecoach bidding for contracts in Gateshead but you never know I suppose - I’d assume it will be GNE or GCT in that area.

or JH Coaches as their depot isn't far from Kibblesworth; L&G, Aline, Stanley Travel all potential operators of the 28/A/B/29 replacement in my view.

(25 May 2022, 3:03 pm)busmanT wrote or JH Coaches as their depot isn't far from Kibblesworth; L&G, Aline, Stanley Travel all potential operators of the 28/A/B/29 replacement in my view.

Do any of the above actually run passenger services for nexus? I know they do schools?

(25 May 2022, 3:32 pm)Rob44 wrote Do any of the above actually run passenger services for nexus? I know they do schools?

JH and Stanley have ran plenty over the years. 23 and 79 jump out as being the most recent.

Speaking of Nexus -I find it weird they haven't done anything to publicise the consultation from GNE on their own channel. More lack of joinedup thinking

(25 May 2022, 3:43 pm)Andreos1 wrote JH and Stanley have ran plenty over the years. 23 and 79 jump out as being the most recent.

good to know

(25 May 2022, 3:45 pm)Ambassador wrote Speaking of Nexus -I find it weird they haven't done anything to publicise the consultation from GNE on their own channel. More lack of joinedup thinking

Probably still in shock or too busy finding this big magic money tree they apparently have.

(25 May 2022, 2:53 pm)Rob44 wrote I wouldn't have though SNE would have bid for the 317 as they don't really have a presence in N shields and that area.

I think it was because they not only seen an opportunity with a bit route amalgamation, but also the fact that the 22 operates through Howdon too as well as the 10/11 to North Shields and The Royal Quays.

I did previously have a thought that GNE would withdraw Hadrian Park to Newcastle and the 311 in the future. But if they did that even though it would reduce PVR by 3, it would likely impact the 41/41A as Stagecoach would likely step in with a new 22A every 20 minutes to Hadrian Park with the other (22) running to Cobalt every 20 mins. This also could take passengers who want to travel from Hadrian Park to Wallsend.

(25 May 2022, 3:45 pm)Ambassador wrote Speaking of Nexus -I find it weird they haven't done anything to publicise the consultation from GNE on their own channel. More lack of joinedup thinking

Probably because they won't know what they can afford to maintain in terms of service provision until the tender process is complete - at which point they can compare those prices to their budget and adjust resource accordingly.

(25 May 2022, 2:53 pm)Rob44 wrote That's good to know about the 19.  I suspect GNE are confident of winning these " contract" from they way they reply on twitter and Facebook to queries.  

I wouldn't have though SNE would have bid for the 317 as they don't really have a presence in N shields and that area.

Not sure if I'd rather have GNE or GCT!!!  stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea

The whole area from North Shields to Wallsend is pretty much Stagecoach territory now (I know some are subsidised) with the 22 in Howdon being the principal route and the 10/11 from Jarrow to North Shields being close through Royal Quays.

The other half of the route is pretty much Arriva territory now other than the 309. GNE don't really have a presence in North Tyneside either nowadays.

(25 May 2022, 3:45 pm)Ambassador wrote Speaking of Nexus -I find it weird they haven't done anything to publicise the consultation from GNE on their own channel. More lack of joinedup thinking

Probably because Nexus recognise that the GNE consultation is less about passengers actually influencing GNE, and more to give GNE fodder to pressure Nexus to step in "because customers said in our consultation they need X but we can't do it without some extra taxpayer cash so you need to stick a tender out that we want to bid for".  If I was them I'd be silent on the GNE consultation too and possibly instead look to consult on whatever mess they are left with to try to maintain a basic level of service in some communities that GNE are abandoning.

(25 May 2022, 11:36 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Probably because Nexus recognise that the GNE consultation is less about passengers actually influencing GNE, and more to give GNE fodder to pressure Nexus to step in "because customers said in our consultation they need X but we can't do it without some extra taxpayer cash so you need to stick a tender out that we want to bid for".  If I was them I'd be silent on the GNE consultation too and possibly instead look to consult on whatever mess they are left with to try to maintain a basic level of service in some communities that GNE are abandoning.

It’s certainly a different approach to their heroic rescue of North Tyneside.

(26 May 2022, 12:34 am)Ambassador wrote It’s certainly a different approach to their heroic rescue of North Tyneside.

I wonder if these proposed changes are really down to short of drivers and short of vehicles due to spare parts hard to get in the pipeline and less of daily cancellations, and when the government hand outs finishes in October and the income haven’t changed, maybe a lot more bus changes will start at the end of the year.


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