(08 Jun 2022, 9:06 pm)Adrian wrote It'd be odd for any company to impose a directive such as cutting PVR or services, wouldn't it? Are they not more likely to have been told to maintain (or increase) margin to X%? Of course, I agree one key way to achieve that is to reduce overheads, but the other is to increase sales.

It's clearly about reducing costs the amount going out whilst increasing the amount of money coming in.

Quite a risky strategy and I'd argue it's not really paying dividends.
Particularly if they're not able to afford to replace the life expired stock and there's a stagnant network that's not working.

(08 Jun 2022, 9:06 pm)Adrian wrote It'd be odd for any company to impose a directive such as cutting PVR or services, wouldn't it? Are they not more likely to have been told to maintain (or increase) margin to X%? Of course, I agree one key way to achieve that is to reduce overheads, but the other is to increase sales.

Not at all. Its happening in London right now.

It's no different to TJ Hughes in Newcastle shutting the top floor.

(08 Jun 2022, 8:55 pm)DeltaMan wrote They'd have to be creative in any circumstance if they are told by senior management teams to cut PVR by X or Y but still cover most of the network.

Even if that was the case, they're failing with the latter!

(08 Jun 2022, 9:26 pm)Andreos1 wrote Even if that was the case, they're failing with the latter!

Well, that's another matter. I know I made my feelings known in my now outdated consultation response. But on the flip side we don't actually know the state the company is in. Nothing on Companies House since early last year, and a depot closure at Chester tells the story I think.

(08 Jun 2022, 9:32 pm)DeltaMan wrote Well, that's another matter. I know I made my feelings known in my now outdated consultation response. But on the flip side we don't actually know the state the company is in. Nothing on Companies House since early last year, and a depot closure at Chester tells the story I think.

And that's why I've directed a lot of my ire towards them. Even though the buck stops with MG.

The objectives of the commercial team, is to clearly drive commercial revenue growth whilst under whatever pressure to cut costs.
MG stated in his depot letter that they need to adapt to new market conditions. I don't see any adaptations. I see cuts to services and there's a clear difference between the two.
It's patently obvious that costs can be cut, without leaving entire communities such as Pelton Fell removed from a bus network, whilst increasing the number of services an hour up and down Pelaw Bank.

Regardless of whether they're wagging the tail or not and whatever pressure there is to cut costs, that commercial revenue growth and network adaptations have clearly not happened.

I agree about the state of the division. I think MG mentioned that there's financial pressures. However, I noticed covid got the blame again.

That letter from Kevan Jones is interesting, suggests what we all suspected. The consultation was a sham.

The absolute debacle around of the Better than Ever campaign back in September and the associated changes - MG has been a failure, covid played a part but he’s essentially a Beeching for buses up here. Best all round if he goes.

The platitudes on the various enthusiast groups tell you all you need to know about priorities.

(08 Jun 2022, 9:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote Not at all. Its happening in London right now.

It's no different to TJ Hughes in Newcastle shutting the top floor.

I'm not sure comparing to London is a good comparison where there is more about removing duplicate services on corridors where there's way too many services and pay a fee per bus under the franchising.

It's more likely senior management have said we want a profit, sort it out, we're no longer bank rolling you hence all marginal and loss making services are going with depot consolidation to reduce costs.

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(08 Jun 2022, 9:50 pm)Ambassador wrote That letter from Kevan Jones is interesting, suggests what we all suspected. The consultation was a sham.

The absolute debacle around of the Better than Ever campaign back in September and the associated changes - MG has been a failure, covid played a part but he’s essentially a Beeching for buses up here. Best all round if he goes.

The platitudes on the various enthusiast groups tell you all you need to know about priorities.

I never defend the bloke usually but it'll be interesting to see how much it is him or how much is really upper management really doing it. I'm not sure it would be his best interests to cut everything, I'd be pretty certain someone else above is telling him to do so.

The fact he's bailed ship and the stuff he is saying is cryptic as so far he hasn't acknowledged GoAhead at all, only the 'GNE Team and supporters (odd thing to mention)'

(08 Jun 2022, 4:00 pm)Unber43 wrote Tbh, it could be worth extending it to Sunderland to have a every 30 mins with the X6 leaving, you could extend it actually throught where the 734 goes, and some of the 28 routes, say to Wreckton

I can't see it being extended to Sunderland commercially. The route of the 734 will be covered by the 34 going back that way. Tbh for the 28 it's only really High Handenhold, which I can see being left without a service, and Pelton Fell, which I reckon the 703 could be diverted to serve at least one of the stops. To me the most logical thing is with the 71 being DCC funded is for it to be extended through to Langley Park to cover the 25, assuming DCC intend on funding a replacement

(08 Jun 2022, 9:44 pm)Andreos1 wrote And that's why I've directed a lot of my ire towards them. Even though the buck stops with MG.
The objectives of the commercial team, is to clearly drive commercial revenue growth whilst under whatever pressure to cut costs.
MG stated in his depot letter that they need to adapt to new market conditions. I don't see any adaptations. I see cuts.

Regardless of whether they're wagging the tail or not and whatever pressure there is to cut costs, that commercial revenue growth has clearly not happened.

I agree about the state of the division. I think MG mentioned that there's financial pressures. However, I noticed covid got the blame again.

Do you think Kevin Carr would have done anything different, or whoever was running at GNE before MG

(08 Jun 2022, 10:01 pm)Unber43 wrote Do you think Kevin Carr would have done anything different, or whoever was running at GNE before MG

There would have been less work for Stenning and table manufacturers that's for sure!

But seriously. I don't. It's still the same commercial team, making the same network decisions regardless who is MD.
Someone needs to dish out a daily dose of inspiration and creativity in that place. It may keep the network afloat!

(08 Jun 2022, 10:00 pm)peter wrote I can't see it being extended to Sunderland commercially. The route of the 734 will be covered by the 34 going back that way. Tbh for the 28 it's only really High Handenhold, which I can see being left without a service, and Pelton Fell, which I reckon the 703 could be diverted to serve at least one of the stops. To me the most logical thing is with the 71 being DCC funded it being extended through to Langley Park to cover the 25, assuming DCC intend on funding to replace that stretch.

tbh. I wouldn't be surprised for both the 25 and 28 to be subsidised throughout taking in as much of the 23 and 29 in the process as they can.

(The 28 is already subsidised between Perkinsville and CLS so it's only the other half that needs money).

(08 Jun 2022, 10:07 pm)Storx wrote tbh. I wouldn't be surprised for both the 25 and 28 to be subsidised throughout taking in as much of the 23 and 29 in the process as they can.

(The 28 is already subsidised between Perkinsville and CLS so it's only the other half that needs money).

If the network doesn’t change much, but it’s heavily subsidised by the local authorities then GNE have won - same services but a lot more income for them.
If 25, 28 remain much as they are now which depot will work them? Presumably Riverside as the CLS closure seems more about the building than the service cuts.

(09 Jun 2022, 9:51 am)busmanT wrote If the network doesn’t change much, but it’s heavily subsidised by the local authorities then GNE have won - same services but a lot more income for them.
If 25, 28 remain much as they are now which depot will work them? Presumably Riverside as the CLS closure seems more about the building than the service cuts.

Aye agreed to be honest. Mind it depends on whether GNE win them though, I'm sure the likes of GCT, Stanley Travel and A-Line wouldn't mind a punt at some of them aswell. Even Arriva could maybe go for a cheeky punt it's Durham depot isn't exactly a million miles away from Langley Park / CLS.

We've been told upto now

8 & 34 to Washington
21 & X21 to Riverside
71 to Deptford
Chester Town Service & Cathedral Bus to Consett
National Express to Riverside

No mention of 25 and 28 is up for tender

Not heard anything about Sainsburys Bus or Park View Schools

(09 Jun 2022, 10:43 am)Storx wrote Aye agreed to be honest. Mind it depends on whether GNE win them though, I'm sure the likes of GCT, Stanley Travel and A-Line wouldn't mind a punt at some of them aswell. Even Arriva could maybe go for a cheeky punt it's Durham depot isn't exactly a million miles away from Langley Park / CLS.

It all depends on if they are offered to open tender (i.e. all operators on the Local Authorities list are invited to submit a price) or are a "de-minimis" arrangement direct with Go North East. 

Perhaps Stagecoach might be even be interested. 

I presume that GNE will have to register the changes with the Traffic Commissioner tomorrow - although the registrations might change once contracts are awarded. 

The Northern Echo reports today that CLS depot will close on 24th July
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...pot-close/

(09 Jun 2022, 10:45 am)NL62WVW wrote We've been told up to now

8 & 34 to Washington
21 & X21 to Riverside
71 to Deptford
Chester Town Service & Cathedral Bus to Consett
National Express to Riverside

No mention of 25 and 28 is up for tender

Not heard anything about Sainsburys Bus or Park View Schools

I hope that the X21 doesn't break down at West Auckland - it will take Riverside an hour or two to attend!! 
And what's the dead mileage going to be like?

Are GNE still doing the Park View and St Bedes Schools?

(09 Jun 2022, 11:33 am)busmanT wrote It all depends on if they are offered to open tender (i.e. all operators on the Local Authorities list are invited to submit a price) or are a "de-minimis" arrangement direct with Go North East. 

Perhaps Stagecoach might be even be interested. 

I presume that GNE will have to register the changes with the Traffic Commissioner tomorrow - although the registrations might change once contracts are awarded. 

The Northern Echo reports today that CLS depot will close on 24th July
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/2...pot-close/  

They certainly know how to look after their drivers! The company has struggled to recruit and retain for however long and assuming those concerns are genuine, it looks like they're going to lose some experienced staff going forward!
They're not happy bunnies and who could blame them.

(09 Jun 2022, 11:43 am)busmanT wrote I hope that the X21 doesn't break down at West Auckland - it will take Riverside an hour or two to attend!! 
And what's the dead mileage going to be like?

Are GNE still doing the Park View and St Bedes Schools?

They need an outstation of some kind. The top and tail X21s may as well run from Consett!

(09 Jun 2022, 12:22 pm)DeltaMan wrote They need an outstation of some kind. The top and tail X21s may as well run from Consett!

Crook would be a good place!

(08 Jun 2022, 9:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote Not at all. Its happening in London right now.

It's no different to TJ Hughes in Newcastle shutting the top floor.

I'd say its very different. The aims of a business are completely different to those of a public service.

In the case of Go Ahead, you can read their annual report, and specifically the strategy section. They are targeting growth for margin, not cuts.


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(08 Jun 2022, 9:50 pm)Ambassador wrote That letter from Kevan Jones is interesting, suggests what we all suspected. The consultation was a sham.

The absolute debacle around of the Better than Ever campaign back in September and the associated changes - MG has been a failure, covid played a part but he’s essentially a Beeching for buses up here. Best all round if he goes.

The platitudes on the various enthusiast groups tell you all you need to know about priorities.

It also suggests his word is worth nothing, which an MP would never put in writing lightly. Especially one with Kevan Jones' experience.

I've personally responded to the consultation in good faith, but I'd be very surprised if that vast majority didn't go ahead.

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(09 Jun 2022, 12:22 pm)DeltaMan wrote They need an outstation of some kind. The top and tail X21s may as well run from Consett!

I suppose they could store them in that yard in Birtley with those two dilapidated Presidents.

Isn’t the Chester depot closure proposed, I’m sure I read elsewhere that if DCC bow down to GNE and secure everything what GNE decided not to do commercial and GNE gets the contracts for the same work there do now, then Chester won’t close, I’m sure the proposed closure depended of GNE losing all the work and not needing the extra buses needed and the rest would go to various depots


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(09 Jun 2022, 2:23 pm)cbma06 wrote Isn’t the Chester depot closure proposed, I’m sure I read elsewhere that if DCC bow down to GNE and secure everything what GNE decided not to do commercial and GNE gets the contracts  for the same work there do now, then Chester won’t close, I’m sure the proposed closure depended of GNE losing all the work and not needing the extra buses needed and the rest would go to various depots


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GNE appear to be pushing ahead with the changes irrespective of what Durham County Council or Nexus propose.

If GNE win back the work, if tendered, then it's pretty much more money in their pockets running it from an alternative depot than they would have running it commercially from CLS.

So basically this "consultation" was just....a waste of time

GNE.....im disappointed

(09 Jun 2022, 3:17 pm)Unber43 wrote So basically this "consultation" was just....a waste of time

GNE.....im disappointed

They'll probably implement minor changes to the proposals based on passenger feedback. Can't see them altering their main plans apart from small route and timing changes in places.

A lot of the non-CLS changes probably help with the depot's closure. A lot of frequency (and subsequently PVR) cuts at surrounding depots that will make space for other vehicles and services to run from them.

(08 Jun 2022, 6:54 am)busmanT wrote Didn’t the consultation say it would be every 15 mins?
The only reason for splitting the 20 can be to allow interworking in S Shields with 26 (interworking with 50 won’t work due to both having a longer route) 

The 9 won’t work on its own (too tight), so it’s possible that the 24 might interwork with 5 & 9 - we’ll have to wait until the timetables appear.

Time for a good fleet livery…..

I know a bit out the blue but just came to my head.

Couldn't the 5 and 26 interwork with each other and just work from Percy Main. If the Q3 goes back to Riverside I can't see them keeping a depot open for just the 1/19/309/310/311/41/41A

It's just through the tunnel and the 26 is already working for there in the evening. It means that they could just put any old crap on like the numerous Versa's going spare (or even Solo's) and keep the Streetlite's and the rest of the Versa's (if needed) for the 9/35/20/24/61 and withdraw pretty much all of the 08/58 plate Merc's, there should be enough if the Streetdeck's go onto the 50.

(09 Jun 2022, 2:23 pm)cbma06 wrote Isn’t the Chester depot closure proposed, I’m sure I read elsewhere that if DCC bow down to GNE and secure everything what GNE decided not to do commercial and GNE gets the contracts  for the same work there do now, then Chester won’t close, I’m sure the proposed closure depended of GNE losing all the work and not needing the extra buses needed and the rest would go to various depots


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As I read it, CLS is closing due to the cost of maintaining the building, cost pressures (pending wage increase), the General reduction in PVR that there has already been and further PVR reductions.

I’m sure that the consultation will have given them and Nexus/DCC valuable feedback to inform the final plans.

I didn't hold out much hope for the consultation either. Seemed to be about making it easy to deflect any criticism that will inevitably be coming their way.

Run a consultation to show that they're willing to listen, put a few proposals in the list that can realistically remain as they are now so they can say they have listened, and then tell customers that they had an opportunity to give their view when the final changes are announced/come into force.

(09 Jun 2022, 4:48 pm)S813 FVK wrote I didn't hold out much hope for the consultation either. Seemed to be about making it easy to deflect any criticism that will inevitably be coming their way.

Run a consultation to show that they're willing to listen, put a few proposals in the list that can realistically remain as they are now so they can say they have listened, and then tell customers that they had an opportunity to give their view when the final changes are announced/come into force.

No different to most consultations!

What we don’t know is what political factors might come into play - the Politicians have a lot of clout with Nexus when it comes to secured services.