(09 Jun 2022, 4:45 pm)Storx wrote I know a bit out the blue but just came to my head.

Couldn't the 5 and 26 interwork with each other and just work from Percy Main. If the Q3 goes back to Riverside I can't see them keeping a depot open for just the 1/19/309/310/311/41/41A

It's just through the tunnel and the 26 is already working for there in the evening. It means that they could just put any old crap on like the numerous Versa's going spare (or even Solo's) and keep the Streetlite's and the rest of the Versa's (if needed) for the 9/35/20/24/61 and withdraw pretty much all of the 08/58 plate Merc's, there should be enough if the Streetdeck's go onto the 50.

Those older Versas will be away soon imo. Along with the older Mercs and maybe some of the Solo's.

There's a big chunk of the routes being 'consulted' on, that use all three types. Any services left can be scooped up by the reduced frequencies on some of the other routes.
Can't just be a coincidence?

Then chuck in the last of the Omnicities and some early Omnidekkers or ex London deckers and you have an incredibly small fleet, with just about enough routes and drivers left over.

In one fell swoop their outgoings have shrank. I'd hazard a guess their incomings will too mind.

(09 Jun 2022, 4:45 pm)Storx wrote I know a bit out the blue but just came to my head.

Couldn't the 5 and 26 interwork with each other and just work from Percy Main. If the Q3 goes back to Riverside I can't see them keeping a depot open for just the 1/19/309/310/311/41/41A

It's just through the tunnel and the 26 is already working for there in the evening. It means that they could just put any old crap on like the numerous Versa's going spare (or even Solo's) and keep the Streetlite's and the rest of the Versa's (if needed) for the 9/35/20/24/61 and withdraw pretty much all of the 08/58 plate Merc's, there should be enough if the Streetdeck's go onto the 50.

I think the 24 has been introduced at every 15 mins, so every 15 mins it can go onto do a 5/26/5/26 so I think that is why the 5 is also changing a bit.
Easier for change overs. 

And with the 9 going hourly I think the 9, 60, 61 will all interwork.

(09 Jun 2022, 5:54 pm)Unber43 wrote I think the 24 has been introduced at every 15 mins, so every 15 mins it can go onto do a 5/26/5/26 so I think that is why the 5 is also changing a bit.
Easier for change overs. 

And with the 9 going hourly I think the 9, 60, 61 will all interwork.

Looking at the 5/26 I do wonder if the changes could mean they’d both work independently.

Currently the 5 is too tight with a journey til just under an hour, save a few minutes and then it might be doable as two hour round trip - PVR of 4.

The 26 would then take longer but it currently takes around 1hr 5 at the moment. So if the 26 take part of the 5 route, it may end up working out as a 2hr30min round trip - PVR 5.

Although I concur, interworking the new 24 with the 5/26 might be what’s seen at GNE towers as the logical option and would certainly explain the split of the current 20. However I’m not sure an every 15 minute service really needs to interwork to be viable. The 24 I guess would be a PVR of 5. Would the 24,26,5 interworking reduce those PVR?

(10 Jun 2022, 12:40 am)Drifter60 wrote Looking at the 5/26 I do wonder if the changes could mean they’d both work independently.

Currently the 5 is too tight with a journey til just under an hour, save a few minutes and then it might be doable as two hour round trip - PVR of 4. 

The 26 would then take longer but it currently takes around 1hr 5 at the moment. So if the 26 take part of the 5 route, it may end up working out as a 2hr30min round trip - PVR 5.

Although I concur, interworking the new 24 with the 5/26 might be what’s seen at GNE towers as the logical option and would certainly explain the split of the current 20. However I’m not sure an every 15 minute service really needs to interwork to be viable. The 24 I guess would be a PVR of 5. Would the 24,26,5 interworking reduce those PVR?

Yeah that's what I was thinking aswell possibly from Percy Main. I'm surprised they're keeping that depot open tbh as the 309/310/311 and 1 could easily be ran from Riverside then what's left the 19 and 41/41A.

Tbh the 20/24 split could be for operating reasons. It's such a long route and if people aren't using the whole route why keep it together. I'm not sure people in South Shields appreciate being late because it was stuck in Durham and vice versa. There's a lot of bottlenecks along the route which can delay it especially on the 20 side.

I know social media is always one to be taken with a pinch of salt but in the various groups (and newspaper article comments) I was somewhat disappointed to see some 'Team GNE Colleagues' had found out about the closure of CLS through social media and not a proper briefing. Regardless of holidays/sickness etc a decent HR team would have the right policy in place to avoid this happening.

Reading between the lines all is not well in employee relations (amused at the censoring of anti-MG comments on the enthusiast sites...says it all about the management style really)

(10 Jun 2022, 9:09 am)Ambassador wrote I know social media is always one to be taken with a pinch of salt but in the various groups (and newspaper article comments) I was somewhat disappointed to see some 'Team GNE Colleagues' had found out about the closure of CLS through social media and not a proper briefing. Regardless of holidays/sickness etc a decent HR team would have the right policy in place to avoid this happening.

Reading between the lines all is not well in employee relations (amused at the censoring of anti-MG comments on the enthusiast sites...says it all about the management style really)

Also, how many CLS employees will just go to Arriva, as CLS is too far out, I know it says no jobs will be lost, but how amny people will leave...

(10 Jun 2022, 9:16 am)Unber43 wrote Also, how many CLS employees will just go to Arriva, as CLS is too far out, I know it says no jobs will be lost, but how amny people will leave...

It's also an employees market as opposed to employers having the stronger hand. 

Work-life balance has become important and that short journey along the A167 to the nearest Arriva depot versus the hassle of getting to a Riverside will come into play. Would you really want to sit on the bypass or Low Fell in traffic after a long driving shift or have a shorter commute home and see the family/dog/playstation/mates etc

(10 Jun 2022, 9:09 am)Ambassador wrote I know social media is always one to be taken with a pinch of salt but in the various groups (and newspaper article comments) I was somewhat disappointed to see some 'Team GNE Colleagues' had found out about the closure of CLS through social media and not a proper briefing. Regardless of holidays/sickness etc a decent HR team would have the right policy in place to avoid this happening.

Reading between the lines all is not well in employee relations (amused at the censoring of anti-MG comments on the enthusiast sites... says it all about the management style really)

There's North Korean style censorship on the enthusiast sites and anti-MG comments are being removed?!

(10 Jun 2022, 9:20 am)Ambassador wrote It's also an employees market as opposed to employers having the stronger hand. 

Work-life balance has become important and that short journey along the A167 to the nearest Arriva depot versus the hassle of getting to a Riverside will come into play. Would you really want to sit on the bypass or Low Fell in traffic after a long driving shift or have a shorter commute home and see the family/dog/playstation/mates etc

I think this is where the lack of a legislative definition of what is a 'reasonable distance' to travel, following a compulsory relocation, will come into play. Washington is clearly the closest depot, but comes with its own challenges; inability to reach it by public transport for an early shift (oh the irony) and the lack of parking for those who may now need to drive in.

Riverside has pretty much unlimited staff parking, but how many of those nasty, congestion creating, private cars would be going on the road, if moving staff from Chester-le-Street to there? I can't see many opting to take 2 or 3 buses to and from work, so the private car is the natural choice.

Even then though, like you say, the desire to sit on the bypass or Low Fell in traffic is going to be far from desirable, and could very likely be argued as unreasonable commuting distance.

(10 Jun 2022, 9:42 am)Adrian wrote I think this is where the lack of a legislative definition of what is a 'reasonable distance' to travel, following a compulsory relocation, will come into play. Washington is clearly the closest depot, but comes with its own challenges; inability to reach it by public transport for an early shift (oh the irony) and the lack of parking for those who may now need to drive in.

Riverside has pretty much unlimited staff parking, but how many of those nasty, congestion creating, private cars would be going on the road, if moving staff from Chester-le-Street to there? I can't see many opting to take 2 or 3 buses to and from work, so the private car is the natural choice.

Even then though, like you say, the desire to sit on the bypass or Low Fell in traffic is going to be far from desirable, and could very likely be argued as unreasonable commuting distance.

I can't see the drivers staying. GNE might be able to make use of a staff shuttle to tempt drivers, but I know of a few staff that currently live within walking distance or a ten minute ride on the 21. They aren't going to want to leave the house 30 minutes earlier or get home 30 minutes later from July for the same pay.

(10 Jun 2022, 10:05 am)DeltaMan wrote I can't see the drivers staying. GNE might be able to make use of a staff shuttle to tempt drivers, but I know of a few staff that currently live within walking distance or a ten minute ride on the 21. They aren't going to want to leave the house 30 minutes earlier or get home 30 minutes later from July for the same pay.

Surely all this is a positive as far as the new MD is concerned? Just means they don't have to fire them!

(10 Jun 2022, 10:25 am)streetdeckfan wrote Surely all this is a positive as far as the new MD is concerned? Just means they don't have to fire them!

Of course Go North East tackled the terms and conditions of staff many, many years ago - something that First had never done at Queens Road.

(10 Jun 2022, 10:05 am)DeltaMan wrote I can't see the drivers staying. GNE might be able to make use of a staff shuttle to tempt drivers, but I know of a few staff that currently live within walking distance or a ten minute ride on the 21. They aren't going to want to leave the house 30 minutes earlier or get home 30 minutes later from July for the same pay.

It's a shame there isn't a quick, direct bus that goes back and forth between the Metrocentre and Chester.
Not only would that shuttle have been sorted, they could have made a few quid from passengers to help subsidise it.

(10 Jun 2022, 10:37 am)Andreos1 wrote It's a shame there isn't a quick, direct bus that goes back and forth between the Metrocentre and Chester.
Not only would that shuttle have been sorted, they could have made a few quid from passengers to help subsidise it.

I think a service bus would need to run too frequently to justify the cost to be honest.

A better option would be running an early/late shuttle bus for those without cars and allowing drivers to sign on/off at the old travel shop for middle turns. So that early/late drivers can break there instead of I assume Gateshead and they could have most middle turns start and finish wthout a bus in Chester.  Those finishing outside "reasonable" hours could then utilise a staff bus if needed. But that would pretty complex and I imagine they'd need to totally revise the timetables.

(10 Jun 2022, 10:37 am)Andreos1 wrote It's a shame there isn't a quick, direct bus that goes back and forth between the Metrocentre and Chester.
Not only would that shuttle have been sorted, they could have made a few quid from passengers to help subsidise it.

Yes they could number it x22 and name it the Metrocentre Express/Shuttle, or something.

(10 Jun 2022, 10:37 am)Andreos1 wrote It's a shame there isn't a quick, direct bus that goes back and forth between the Metrocentre and Chester.
Not only would that shuttle have been sorted, they could have made a few quid from passengers to help subsidise it.

The x22 might of been quick for the passenger, but GNE is there to make money, and if there’s not enough money to run the bus/maintenance and the driver, maybe have a begging bowl out to DCC to see if there pay for the service which there won’t as passengers can get the x21 then the x66 , direct services don’t bring in the money these days, those Olden days have gone and dusted, profit before passenger now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(10 Jun 2022, 2:20 pm)cbma06 wrote The x22 might of been quick for the passenger, but GNE is there to make money, and if there’s not enough money to run the bus/maintenance and the driver, maybe have a begging bowl out to DCC to see if there pay for the service which there won’t as passengers can get the x21 then the x66 , direct services don’t bring in the money these days, those Olden days have gone and dusted, profit before passenger now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah that hub and spoke is what all what's the future... apparently?!

I didn't fill in the GNE consultation as none of the proposed changes really affected me, the X22 was about the only thing that irked me as it was quicker, X22 took about 45 minutes from Durham whereas the X12/X21 take about 40 minutes to reach Gateshead and then about 10 minutes to reach the Metrocentre which sounds not too bad until you factor in having to walk most of the way round the Interchange to reach the X66 stand (cutting across past the X10 stand is too damn tempting) and then a wait of up to 10 minutes so realistically it can be around 60 minutes once you factor in the connection times.

Also didn't bother with consultation as knew whatever I put would fall on deaf ears regarding the X22 in particular.

(10 Jun 2022, 2:34 pm)Jimmi wrote Ah that hub and spoke is what all what's the future... apparently?!

I didn't fill in the GNE consultation as none of the proposed changes really affected me, the X22 was about the only thing that irked me as it was quicker, X22 took about 45 minutes from Durham whereas the X12/X21 take about 40 minutes to reach Gateshead and then about 10 minutes to reach the Metrocentre which sounds not too bad until you factor in having to walk most of the way round the Interchange to reach the X66 stand (cutting across past the X10 stand is too damn tempting) and then a wait of up to 10 minutes so realistically it can be around 60 minutes once you factor in the connection times.

Also didn't bother with consultation as knew whatever I put would fall on deaf ears regarding the X22 in particular.

Also if you just miss an X21, you need to wait atleast 30 mins, or get a 21 in 15 mins, and then thats takes 1 hours + I've never been on a 21 which is ontime on a Saturday going into Newcastle.

So it would take you minimum about 1 hour 20 mins.(10 mins wait Durham & Metro)

(07 Jun 2022, 4:01 pm)Thomas12 wrote I've heard Chester-le-Street depot is closing around the same time as well.

yes it is true chester le street depot is closing, and hexham as well there is a lot of managers going as well

Will this have any effect on the results of the consulation?
Also is washington big enough for the extra buses not sure on the 8 or 34 PVR?

(10 Jun 2022, 9:20 am)Ambassador wrote It's also an employees market as opposed to employers having the stronger hand. 

Work-life balance has become important and that short journey along the A167 to the nearest Arriva depot versus the hassle of getting to a Riverside will come into play. Would you really want to sit on the bypass or Low Fell in traffic after a long driving shift or have a shorter commute home and see the family/dog/playstation/mates etc

You think CLS is bad, Hexham is even worse. If it's an outstation then there won't be any engineering staff or a very limited staff needed. Now that is an awful commute for those staff members having a 20 mile+ commute every day especially if it's Consett when the snow comes in.

(10 Jun 2022, 6:17 pm)Storx wrote You think CLS is bad, Hexham is even worse. If it's an outstation then there won't be any engineering staff or a very limited staff needed. Now that is an awful commute for those staff members having a 20 mile+ commute every day especially if it's Consett when the snow comes in.

I doubt that Hexham drivers will be signing on and off at Consett. That's not how outstations work. 

I believe Hexham has always been a glorified outstation of Riverside and previously Winlaton anyway.

So I assume the heavy engineering will take place at Consett, which is a similar distance away to Riverside. The only thing is where they probably could swap buses over at Meteocentre, they lose that flexibility.

(10 Jun 2022, 6:33 pm)DeltaMan wrote I doubt that Hexham drivers will be signing on and off at Consett. That's not how outstations work. 

I believe Hexham has always been a glorified outstation of Riverside and previously Winlaton anyway.

So I assume the heavy engineering will take place at Consett, which is a similar distance away to Riverside. The only thing is where they probably could swap buses over at Meteocentre, they lose that flexibility.

It was more the depot staff I was talking about there rather than driver's. I'm assuming there will be a whole team there atm which mostly won't be needed anymore even if it's as simple as the cleaner.

Suppose it depends what kind of outstation it is though whether it's an Arriva Whitby / GNE Crook outstation or a sub-depot outstation. The fact it's being downgraded as I do believe you're right about it being a sub depot of Riverside, I kind of want to think the former.

In theory, given that GNE are happy to run all that dead mileage to and from Hexham with the 10 and West Auckland with the X21, will Percy Main not potentially be next on the list given that running dead to Blyth or Whitley Bay would be no worse?

Also, if GNE reverted back to "full fares" rather than the offers, would there be any need for the 309 between Blyth & Whitley Bay given Arriva could pick up Blyth to Cobalt with the 308 & 54?

(10 Jun 2022, 7:25 pm)L469 YVK wrote In theory, given that GNE are happy to run all that dead mileage to and from Hexham with the 10 and West Auckland with the X21, will Percy Main not potentially be next on the list given that running dead to Blyth or Whitley Bay would be no worse?

Also, if GNE reverted back to "full fares" rather than the offers, would there be any need for the 309 between Blyth & Whitley Bay given Arriva could pick up Blyth to Cobalt with the 308 & 54?

They're not offers anymore - they were made permanent fares.

Arriva (or GNE, for that matter) aren't going to give up the Coast Road lightly. No matter how many times you mention it.

(10 Jun 2022, 7:37 pm)Adrian wrote They're not offers anymore - they were made permanent fares.

Arriva (or GNE, for that matter) aren't going to give up the Coast Road lightly. No matter how many times you mention it.

Well Arriva definitely aren't but if GAG are trying to reduce GNE's outlay, will the £1.80 fares be viable moving forward or will they be better scaling back ops down that way (although still existing in some capacity)? Maybe the 310 via Cobalt .

(10 Jun 2022, 8:20 pm)L469 YVK wrote Well Arriva definitely aren't but if GAG are trying to reduce GNE's outlay, will the £1.80 fares be viable moving forward or will they be better scaling back ops down that way (although still existing in some capacity)? Maybe the 310 via Cobalt .

Not sure what this has to do with the Chester-le-Street depot closure either, especially since you've mentioned fares in the MG leaving thread already.

(10 Jun 2022, 6:08 pm)ASX_Terranova wrote Will this have any effect on the results of the consulation?
Also is washington big enough for the extra buses not sure on the 8 or 34 PVR?

It’s been a smoke and mirrors consultation. The impacted labour MPs have said as much.

there’ll be some token gestures

(10 Jun 2022, 8:26 pm)MurdnunoC wrote Not sure what this has to do with the Chester-le-Street depot closure either, especially since you've mentioned fares in the MG leaving thread already.

Well more the question whether or not Percy Main would eventually suffer the same fate as Chester Le Street. The 10 and X21 will have huge dead mileage so would be no harm running dead to Blyth (309) or Whitley Bay (1 and some 309 runs) from Riverside.

Really CLS & washington should merge into one massive depot, with 21 & X21 running from