Could the likes of Services 1/2 interwork or merge with 308 for example in order to reduce PVR at Blyth, furthermore is there really the need for the amount of Services that go through Gosforth/Regent Centre and Blyth, could some of these express service again be merged into normal standard services such as the 52/54/55 with the X7/X8 given they operate through similar corridors.

What are the interworking paterns like at Jesmond

They could interwork the 44/45 with X10 or X11 out of Blyth

54 with the 57 at Whitley Bay out of Ashington

306 with the 308 at Haymarket from Blyth

Beyond that, you are getting in to remote reliefs for things like the 43, 46/47, 51 and 55. Not very economical. And then you have the 685....

So without a full network change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Newcastle City stuff cancelled and the 685 "handed" to Busways

(12 Aug 2022, 10:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote They could interwork the 44/45 with X10 or X11 out of Blyth

54 with the 57 at Whitley Bay out of Ashington

306 with the 308 at Haymarket from Blyth

Beyond that, you are getting in to remote reliefs for things like the 43, 46/47, 51 and 55. Not very economical. And then you have the 685....

So without a full network change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Newcastle City stuff cancelled and the 685 "handed" to Busways

Newcastle City stuff?

(12 Aug 2022, 10:26 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote Newcastle City stuff?

46/47/55

(12 Aug 2022, 10:30 pm)DeltaMan wrote 46/47/55

Ah, thanks. Would they end up with another operator then, or just cancelled?

(12 Aug 2022, 10:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote They could interwork the 44/45 with X10 or X11 out of Blyth

54 with the 57 at Whitley Bay out of Ashington

306 with the 308 at Haymarket from Blyth

Beyond that, you are getting in to remote reliefs for things like the 43, 46/47, 51 and 55. Not very economical. And then you have the 685....

So without a full network change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Newcastle City stuff cancelled and the 685 "handed" to Busways

The 54/57 wouldn't really work as it's only hourly upto Ashington and would be too long to do 57 54 54 57A 57A 54 54 57 without remotes.

I have a feeling they'll leave the 52/53/54 together and work it from Blyth like the old 343/344. There's enough space for the Streetlite's at the new depot for them.

Agree with the feeling that they'll bin off the 46/47 and 55 though. The last one is now covered by the X7/X8 between South Gosforth and Newcastle and the rest of the route is covered by the 52 or 62. Making the expresses non express was an odd move otherwise imo. The fact Nexus don't even bother to subsidise it on a Sunday evening no doubt sums what they think about it. I did notice it mentions 'Newcastle services' which is quite specific.

The 51 is subsidised by Nexus though if I'm right.

(12 Aug 2022, 10:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote Beyond that, you are getting in to remote reliefs for things like the 43, 46/47, 51 and 55. Not very economical. And then you have the 685....

With the 43, the Morpeth runs could break there. Could interwork the others with an Ashington service at the Newcastle end - X21 to town, 44 to Dinnington and back, X22 back?

(12 Aug 2022, 10:56 pm)mb134 wrote With the 43, the Morpeth runs could break there. Could interwork the others with an Ashington service at the Newcastle end - X21 to town, 44 to Dinnington and back, X22 back?

Goodness knows. I only auggested the 44/45 with the X10 as the 44/45 is a 60 minute round trip, but the X10/X11 has 7 minutes at Haymarket. So it would fit in quite well.

I can't help but feel ARRIVA are giving themselves a right headache, unless we are missing something and they are going bin off the Tyne and Wear work when it's all said and done.

(12 Aug 2022, 10:24 pm)DeltaMan wrote They could interwork the 44/45 with X10 or X11 out of Blyth

54 with the 57 at Whitley Bay out of Ashington

306 with the 308 at Haymarket from Blyth

Beyond that, you are getting in to remote reliefs for things like the 43, 46/47, 51 and 55. Not very economical. And then you have the 685....

So without a full network change I wouldn't be surprised to see the Newcastle City stuff cancelled and the 685 "handed" to Busways

It will be very interesting to see what plays out. Obviously it seems all the other routes were destined for Blyth or Ashington anyway. With the small local depot for the city work using the new E200 MMC's plus the 685. 

Now that the new depot is no longer viable perhaps they do plan on ditching the city work, certainly the 46 and 55 are largely covered by other services, I'm sure Nexus would step in and divert another service for the handful of stops not served.

The hospital bus 47 could be incorporated into another service I suppose. Not sure what they'd do with the 553/555 tho. 

51/51A I could see surviving, possibly interworking with the 57 out of Whitley Bay. 

The 685 is the big one, personally I think it would make much more sense for Stagecoach to operate it in full, whether Arriva would just give it up like that I don't know.

(12 Aug 2022, 11:28 pm)peter wrote It will be very interesting to see what plays out. Obviously it seems all the other routes were destined for Blyth or Ashington anyway. With the small local depot for the city work using the new E200 MMC's plus the 685. 

Now that the new depot is no longer viable perhaps they do plan on ditching the city work, certainly the 46 and 55 are largely covered by other services, I'm sure Nexus would step in and divert another service for the handful of stops not served.

The hospital bus 47 could be incorporated into another service I suppose. Not sure what they'd do with the 553/555 tho. 

51/51A I could see surviving, possibly interworking with the 57 out of Whitley Bay. 

The 685 is the big one, personally I think it would make much more sense for Stagecoach to operate it in full, whether Arriva would just give it up like that I don't know.

I agree. The 685 is a very intresting situation.

I've thought for some time it would sit better with Busways from the Newcastle end. But then I think It won't work unless it's Slatyford and they break drivers at West Denton!

But with passenger numbers not as they were, I wonder once all the dominos fall it leads to a situation where the 685 is split at Hexham. Stagecoach running every hour Carlisle to Haltwhistle with an extension every two hours to Hexham. With GNE then resurrecting the X85 between Hexham to Newcastle.

(12 Aug 2022, 9:48 pm)peter wrote Although I get where you're coming from as it says some roles are moving to Belmont, I think that's primarily the engineering side of things. The X12 runs hourly to Newcastle where the 44/45 run every 15/20 minutes-ish so I can't see it working. Also, the X12 is run by Stockton now anyways.


The 52, 53 and 54 interwork. The 43, 44 and 45 interwork currently, if the timetable ever re-increases the 43 is standalone from the 44/45. The 46/46A interwork with the 51/51A. Everything else standalone I believe.

I'm pretty sure the X12 is split between Belmont and Stockton, since I've seen buses from both depots on there. Same with how the 7 is split between Belmont and Darlington.

(13 Aug 2022, 12:06 am)wibblejunior wrote I'm pretty sure the X12 is split between Belmont and Stockton, since I've seen buses from both depots on there. Same with how the 7 is split between Belmont and Darlington.

The X12 was recently transferred completely to Stockton, with the exception of a few morning and evening journeys still ran by Belmont.

(12 Aug 2022, 9:30 pm)V514DFT wrote What are the interworking paterns like at Jesmond

43/44/45

46/46A/51/51A

52/53/54

They interwork Monday to Friday (not sure about Saturday)

47/306 sort of with the 306 morning run to Whitley Bay & back will go onto the 47 however its meant to go back on the 306 for evening but can change 

306/308 interwork on a Sunday 

Sundays seem to have the 43/52/53 interwork with the 54 being stand alone & 44/45 interwork

685 & 55 & 553 & 555 are always stand alone. Don't interwork with any other service as far as I know 

Most if not all of this could be wrong but this is off the top of my head

(13 Aug 2022, 12:06 am)wibblejunior wrote I'm pretty sure the X12 is split between Belmont and Stockton, since I've seen buses from both depots on there. Same with how the 7 is split between Belmont and Darlington.

Apart from two early morning journeys on weekdays (the 0610 from Coxhoe to Durham and the 0620 from Middlesbrough to Durham) and a single round trip on a Saturday afternoon (1750 from Durham to Middlesbrough and the 1910 return - working off a 22 board), the entire X12 output is now operated by Stockton as of Monday to assist with Belmont’s staff shortages.
Likewise, Belmont’s 7 boards are presently being covered by Darlington for the foreseeable future for the same reason - hence the transfer of 1518 in June when Stockton took on the X66.

(13 Aug 2022, 1:24 am)Kuyoyo wrote Apart from two early morning journeys on weekdays (the 0610 from Coxhoe to Durham and the 0620 from Middlesbrough to Durham) and a single round trip on a Saturday afternoon (1750 from Durham to Middlesbrough and the 1910 return - working off a 22 board), the entire X12 output is now operated by Stockton as of Monday to assist with Belmont’s staff shortages.
Likewise, Belmont’s 7 boards are presently being covered by Darlington for the foreseeable future for the same reason - hence the transfer of 1518 in June when Stockton took on the X66.

Belmont have regained a 7 board since the transfer of the vast majority of X12 runs to Stockton last weekend, prior to that for a few weeks Belmont’s only output on the 7 was the morning round trip from Durham to Darlington that's on a 22/23/24 board.

Duplicate thread

(12 Aug 2022, 10:48 pm)Storx wrote The 54/57 wouldn't really work as it's only hourly upto Ashington and would be too long to do 57 54 54 57A 57A 54 54 57 without remotes.

I have a feeling they'll leave the 52/53/54 together and work it from Blyth like the old 343/344. There's enough space for the Streetlite's at the new depot for them.

Agree with the feeling that they'll bin off the 46/47 and 55 though. The last one is now covered by the X7/X8 between South Gosforth and Newcastle and the rest of the route is covered by the 52 or 62. Making the expresses non express was an odd move otherwise imo. The fact Nexus don't even bother to subsidise it on a Sunday evening no doubt sums what they think about it. I did notice it mentions 'Newcastle services' which is quite specific.

The 51 is subsidised by Nexus though if I'm right.

I thought the 51 was commercial although when the 51a started I think there was some input from the house builders at Holystone and East Benton. When GNE withdrew the 42/42a I think Nexus put some money towards the 51a running via Wiltshire Drive to maintain a half hourly link to Benton ASDA.

It's the transfer of engineering that is going to be the really inconvenient move for a lot of staff. It eouid only be a viable commute for those living south of the Tyne and, even then, an awful one.

Looking forward to even more ancient buses on life support trundling around Durham, too. It's getting to the point where some of the vehicles on the 64 wouldn't be out of place at a vintage rally.

(13 Aug 2022, 10:31 am)Storx wrote I'm not too sure but I know in the spreadsheet the whole route is listed in the freedom of request awhile back but it's in 3 bits for some reason - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1590909

8801 51 Benton Asda - Holystone - West Allotment - Shiremoor - Earsdon - Beaumont Park - Whitley Bay Monday - Sunday all day route extension
8802 51 Newcastle - Benton Asda - Holystone Daily daytime service
8802 51A Newcastle - Benton Asda - Holystone Daily daytime service

That's the details though pulled out.

---

If were going on bonker ideas surely it would be better for Arriva to just buy Percy Main with the 1 moving to Riverside or Stagecoach.

You've fixed the mess of the Coast Road overnight and Arriva have a depot on the Coast for the Coast Road services and 41/41A/51/52/53/54/57 which are all close by.

Which of course they did many yers ago.....Whitley Bay.

Clearly Arriva think they can operate their operations north of the Tyne with only 2 main depots with the outstation at Alnwick. 

Just having a bit of a think and how many depots/outstations did Arriva/United use to have north of the Tyne - I am thinking Whitley Bay, Blyth, Ashington, Morpeth, Gallowgate, Hexham and Jesmond.  Did they have a depot at Berwick or was that a bit of an outstation, think they had something around Wooler too?

(13 Aug 2022, 10:31 am)Storx wrote I'm not too sure but I know in the spreadsheet the whole route is listed in the freedom of request awhile back but it's in 3 bits for some reason - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/b...ng-1590909

8801 51 Benton Asda - Holystone - West Allotment - Shiremoor - Earsdon - Beaumont Park - Whitley Bay Monday - Sunday all day route extension
8802 51 Newcastle - Benton Asda - Holystone Daily daytime service
8802 51A Newcastle - Benton Asda - Holystone Daily daytime service

That's the details though pulled out.

Part of me feels like at one time it ran commercially to Benton Asda and the stretch through to Whitley Bay was a deminimis extension where they fund the operator to extend a route (like GNE's 61 recently). Certainly in a FOI in 2016 the 51 is only partly secured. Perhaps at some point since then Arriva pulled out of running the Benton Asda stretch commercially and so that's now funded by Nexus too under a separate contract.

(13 Aug 2022, 11:05 am)citaro5284 wrote Which of course they did many yers ago.....Whitley Bay.

Clearly Arriva think they can operate their operations north of the Tyne with only 2 main depots with the outstation at Alnwick. 

Just having a bit of a think and how many depots/outstations did Arriva/United use to have north of the Tyne - I am thinking Whitley Bay, Blyth, Ashington, Morpeth, Gallowgate, Hexham and Jesmond.  Did they have a depot at Berwick or was that a bit of an outstation, think they had something around Wooler too?

Yeah agreed with the 2 depots.

Just had a look online and got this from Wikipedia (caveats and all that)

Allenheads (Outstation) - The Barn
Alnwick - Lisburn Street
Ashington - Lintonville Terrace
Berwick - Marygate
Blyth - Bridge Street
Hexham - Burn Lane
Morpeth - Dark Lane
Newcastle (Gallowgate) - Gallowgate
Newcastle (Jesmond) - Portland Terrace
Rothbury - High Street
Seahouses (Outstation) - Public Car Park
Whitley Bay - Park Avenue
Wooler - South Road

Berwick was a full depot as far as I'm aware though as the local town services were served from there who are ran by Border Buses? now.

(13 Aug 2022, 11:45 am)peter wrote Part of me feels like at one time it ran commercially to Benton Asda and the stretch through to Whitley Bay was a deminimis extension where they fund the operator to extend a route (like GNE's 61 recently). Certainly in a FOI in 2016 the 51 is only partly secured. Perhaps at some point since then Arriva pulled out of running the Benton Asda stretch commercially and so that's now funded by Nexus too under a separate contract.

Yeah agreed, it's a weird one though as it doesn't go out for tender, as far as I'm aware, which suggests that it's maybe only part subsidised or there's some different form of deal for it. Not aware of any other routes which avoid tendering altogether where they don't run anything commercial on it.

Mod note: I've done some housekeeping on this thread.

• The 'Newcastle Depot' thread has been merged into the already existing Jesmond Depot thread.
  
• Service suggestions (even those entering the realm of pure fantasy) have been moved to the Arriva Service Suggestions thread.
  

In order to keep this thread tidy and on topic, can we keep this to the Jesmond depot closure and the operational challenges around that? Suggestions of re-designing the network need to stay in the relevant suggestions threads.

So what is the future of the Jesmond depot following its closure by Arriva?

Quite a long history to Jesmond depot.

Without going off topic, are there any major implications for services? Could we see local routes like the 46/46A, 47, 55 etc withdrawn/transferred across to another operator?

Regarding Jesmond depot closing, does anyone plan on being there to film the closure on the last ever run in?

Hello all, newbie here.

I worked out of Jesmond for 20 years, going from pre privatisation to Arriva. The 2 best days of my working life were the day I started there and the day I left. I still know a few drivers that work there, although not many and it's nearly 20 years since I left.

I will be sorry to see it go but the building is in a sorry state, they haven't spent much on it over the years and the value of the land is worth way more than it's value as a bus depot.DB have been trying to sell Arriva for ages, makes good sense to strip out what remaining assets they have.

I live on the 43 route, it's my only bus to town, now 1 an hour in the evening to " improve reliability" yet the last time I used it, it didn't run. Meaning a full hour wait and hoping the next one wasn't cancelled.

They must have a different idea of " improved reliability" to me. I can't imagine moving services to Blyth and Ashington is going to help with reliability either.

(28 Aug 2022, 4:57 pm)Little John wrote Hello all, newbie here.

I worked out of Jesmond for 20 years, going from pre privatisation to Arriva. The 2 best days of my working life were the day I started there and the day I left. I still know a few drivers that work there, although not many and it's nearly 20 years since I left.

I will be sorry to see it go but the building is in a sorry state, they haven't spent much on it over the years and the value of the land is worth way more than it's value as a bus depot.DB have been trying to sell Arriva for ages, makes good sense to strip out what remaining assets they have.

I live on the 43 route, it's my only bus to town, now 1 an hour in the evening to " improve reliability" yet the last time I used it, it didn't run. Meaning a full hour wait and hoping the next one wasn't cancelled.

They must have a different idea of " improved reliability" to me. I can't imagine moving services to Blyth and Ashington is going to help with reliability either.

You do realise that Arriva don't own the Jesmond site anymore? Any value obtained by closing it, isn't going into Arriva's pockets.

How the network reacts to operating from another location remains to be seen.

They don't own it anymore because it was sold a while back and part of the sale conditions were they could keep using it for a while. Of course Arriva/DB got the money from the sale.

New user here
I have a couple of questions:
1. Do we know who the depot has been sold to?
2. Are the staff at the depot happy with this move? Can't imagine the commute time being convenient at all
3. Do we know what is happening to the depot once it has closed at the end of October?

(07 Oct 2022, 2:15 pm)jessarnold003 wrote New user here
I have a couple of questions:
1. Do we know who the depot has been sold to?
2. Are the staff at the depot happy with this move? Can't imagine the commute time being convenient at all
3. Do we know what is happening to the depot once it has closed at the end of October?

1. Haven't got a clue!
2. Nope, not at all. https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-event...ond-depot/
3. Again, haven't got a clue!