(05 May 2023, 6:06 pm)toward6931 wrote I hope there is truth in this as SNE is struggling and does deserve more,

don't know about transferring the hybrids to Sunderland to release gas buses, some of them don't seem in good condition and its a completely new vehicle type for engineering staff to get to learn,

if it was me I would have done the following,

the first ten new buses into service replace ten of walkergate/Newcastle  single decks (09 plates only, anything newer should go to slatyford and stay in Newcastle) to Sunderland, im sure most of these are "spare" vehicles owing to the reliability of the hybrids. keeping a twenty percent safety margin at Sunderland and only getting rid of the 8 worst of the 2013 E300s so that they can be stripped down to support the other gas buses.in addition I would use the opportunity to remove 5 of the hybrids from service ideally vehicles that are either long term VOR or deemed too unecomical to repair

the next ten vehicles i would move the eldest of the older E400s to slatyford. Again using a 20 percent safety margin the first 5 i would put in service and use them displace 4 more single decks  to Sunderland, the second batch of 5 i would use to displace the 5 eldest E400s to Sunderland again displacing 4 more gasbuses,

the last 5 vehicles i would use as "spares" so that every next time a hybrid goes really t*ts up one of these spare vehicles can take its place and that vehicle can be stripped for spares

all in all with this model 16 of the worst of gas buses are cannibalised  for parts and scrapped to keep the hopefully better examples on the road that little bit longer i think that would 24 gas buses remaining , 10 of the worst hybrids have the same treatment leaving 16 remaining, slatyford will have gained 1 net vehicle and Sunderland will have gained 3

i know sadly this does not sort out anything for hartlepool or Stockton however once the electric deliveries start next year for oxford and stockport i can imagine more vehicles will be released that could sort out some more issues

I could be wrong but I believe the issues with the gas buses are relating to the tanks, so they can't really cannibalised to keep them going. I believe they were designed for a half life replacement, quite a few electric buses are the same - be interesting to see if all of them get done though or whether tech has moved on by that time it's uneconomical.

(05 May 2023, 6:33 pm)Storx wrote I could be wrong but I believe the issues with the gas buses are relating to the tanks, so they can't really cannibalised to keep them going. I believe they were designed for a half life replacement, quite a few electric buses are the same - be interesting to see if all of them get done though or whether tech has moved on by that time it's uneconomical.

might find a couple of usable tanks in the cannibalisation process...........

(05 May 2023, 7:04 pm)toward6931 wrote might find a couple of usable tanks in the cannibalisation process...........

I don't know 100% but I could imagine the tanks would need to be done by a specialist. Not sure it's worth replacing them with ones with a year left as the cost will be just as bad.

Can't imagine anyone can just go replacing them nilly willy. They're pretty much a bomb on the roof anyway ignoring the safety systems but they convert them into a flamethrower instead. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHf2o9oVY24

They're the same tanks as Darlington's aswell unless they've been upgraded at some point.

Stockton and hartlepool depots at some point have got to get new buses I think because we have old buses now?

(05 May 2023, 8:37 pm)Storx wrote I don't know 100% but I could imagine the tanks would need to be done by a specialist. Not sure it's worth replacing them with ones with a year left as the cost will be just as bad.

Can't imagine anyone can just go replacing them nilly willy. They're pretty much a bomb on the roof anyway ignoring the safety systems but they convert them into a flamethrower instead. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHf2o9oVY24

They're the same tanks as Darlington's aswell unless they've been upgraded at some point.

BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion) Demonstration - How it Happens Training Video - YouTube could be worse to be fair, as dramatic as it is, that looks like the safety mechanisms on those tanks were working, 

i wonder if some will be done because to replace 40 odd buses of that age range is probably in the region of £150,000 each as a minimum is probably going to cost at least six million quid, i cant imagine refitting some tanks will cost that much

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(05 May 2023, 6:06 pm)toward6931 wrote i know sadly this does not sort out anything for hartlepool or Stockton however once the electric deliveries start next year for oxford and stockport i can imagine more vehicles will be released that could sort out some more issues

(05 May 2023, 8:55 pm)glen wrote Stockton and hartlepool depots at some point have got to get new buses I think because we have old buses now?

as said glen, it will happen at some point, but we only have a certain amount of information and speculation currently, until more information becomes available its a case of sitting pretty and praying

I want say it again mate.

(06 May 2023, 12:38 am)toward6931 wrote BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Explosion) Demonstration - How it Happens Training Video - YouTube could be worse to be fair, as dramatic as it is, that looks like the safety mechanisms on those tanks were working, 

i wonder if some will be done because to replace 40 odd buses of that age range is probably in the region of £150,000 each as a minimum is probably going to cost at least six million quid, i cant imagine refitting some tanks will cost that much.

Aye think they'd point them so they're not 90 degrees though. Could be lethal that if it's the wrong place, arguably worse than it blowing up. 

Btw wonder if it might be a legal issue rather than technical. It seems like they've got a 10 year life on them by the date theyre going. I'm not sure I'd want to be the one who signs if off for them to last longer. 

If something did go wrong then you've just signed yourself to a manslaughter by neglegence charge if it's worst scenario. 

Obviously they'll no doubt be fine but it's a big if and it's a big mistake if it goes wrong. Obviously no doubt Arriva's will stay on for a bit as it's all about the £££.

With 22890 now painted in the new colours has it arrived at Stockton depot yet? Any idea what is being sent to Slatyford to replace it if anything?

(05 May 2023, 8:55 pm)glen wrote Stockton and hartlepool depots at some point have got to get new buses I think because we have old buses now?

Have heard plenty of rumours that Hartlepool are apparently getting new buses ( although it’s obviously most likely to be cascades from elsewhere rather than brand new ) but the 6/7 is apparently seeing a reduction from 10 to 12 minutes as well this is what I have heard so don’t actually know what’s happening for certain but hopefully newer more decent buses are coming soon.

Thanks for info mate

(05 May 2023, 6:33 pm)Storx wrote I could be wrong but I believe the issues with the gas buses are relating to the tanks, so they can't really cannibalised to keep them going. I believe they were designed for a half life replacement, quite a few electric buses are the same - be interesting to see if all of them get done though or whether tech has moved on by that time it's uneconomical.

I believe the facilities at the depot also need refurbishment - a job we've apparently been quoted to cost somewhere in the millions.

(07 May 2023, 7:32 am)F114TML wrote I believe the facilities at the depot also need refurbishment - a job we've apparently been quoted to cost somewhere in the millions.

Aye had a feeling there might be issues there aswell. No doubt, I'm guessing, they could do another 5 year or so but Stagecoach don't want to take a risk as if something goes wrong, then it'll go wrong and they'll have a mess to clean up which they'll be liable for since they ignored the 10 year lifespan they blatantly have.

(04 May 2023, 2:21 pm)ReDemPTiion wrote The hybrids need scrapped tbh it’s not much of an upgrade for Sunderland replacing the gas buses with those (if it’s true) they aren’t as nice as they used to be they are getting withdrawn all over the country at the moment. 

Would be nice to see Slatyford get some new buses to replace the 24***’s as they’re 09 plate

Yet several depots are running buses on  54/55/06/56 plates. Slatyford should count itself lucky an old bus is on an 09 plate haha

(09 May 2023, 7:21 pm)Youngymmv wrote Yet several depots are running buses on  54/55/06/56 plates. Slatyford should count itself lucky an old bus is on an 09 plate haha

its only because of CAZ that this is the case, im pretty sure if caz wasnt a thing slaty would still be running them

(07 May 2023, 7:32 am)F114TML wrote I believe the facilities at the depot also need refurbishment - a job we've apparently been quoted to cost somewhere in the millions.

Buyer has been found for equipment and the buses.

(10 May 2023, 1:46 pm)54APhotography wrote Buyer has been found for equipment and the buses.

That was quick, wonder if they'll end up with Reading buses, as I know they have quite a few gas buses.

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(04 May 2023, 9:20 am)Busu284 wrote News from a driver last night

Walkergate are receiving 25 brand new buses to replace the Hybrid (currently allocated to the 1 & 12)

The Hybrid will move to Sunderland to replace the gas buses which are leaving.

This came from a driver I'm friends with so dk how true it would be haha. But I did read that they were due 11 new buses but seems a lot more are coming to replace the Hybrids

Interesting move if that happens, wonder if that's happening because of the rumoured frequency drops for Sunderland at the end of June so they have more seats.

I wonder if we'll see them change routes again, especially when its rumoured that the 18 (City Centre to Seaburn via the whole of Sunderland) going to NEXUS, as a tendered service.

(10 May 2023, 6:50 pm)Michael wrote That was quick, wonder if they'll end up with Reading buses, as I know they have quite a few gas buses.

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Interesting move if that happens, wonder if that's happening because of the rumoured frequency drops for Sunderland at the end of June so they have more seats.

I wonder if we'll see them change routes again, especially when its rumoured that the 18 (City Centre to Seaburn via the whole of Sunderland) going to NEXUS, as a tendered service.

Pretty much nailed on now that the E400Eh are NOT going to the Wheatsheaf.

Also Pretty much nailed on Steve Walker is decimating Sunderland services because he's too weak to argue with Perth

So whats going on the 3/4 etc?

(10 May 2023, 7:52 pm)Unber43 wrote So whats going on the 3/4 etc?

Thinned out services. Only one from 12 & 13 to survive. Tbh it doesn't look good.

Wonder if GNE offer to buy SCNE Routes/ Depot whether they'll go for it.

(10 May 2023, 8:08 pm)Unber43 wrote Wonder if GNE offer to buy SCNE Routes/ Depot whether they'll go for it.

Why would they buy routes?

These services are clearly under-performing which is the reason Stagecoach are allegedly cutting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(10 May 2023, 8:44 pm)Dan wrote Why would they buy routes?

These services are clearly under-performing which is the reason Stagecoach are allegedly cutting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At the end of the day, bus services all over are being hit by a mix of higher costs and fewer people travelling.

If our bus operators are to operate commercially, there's only one thing that going to happen, and that's cutting of unremunerative services.

Therefore, if we want services to operate on corridors that have dropped below the point at which they can run commercially, they need to be supported in some way.

The alternative, having operators that provide services for the benefit of the community rather than to make a profit, was abolished as a political decision in the 1980s .....

(11 May 2023, 7:32 am)Ianthegoon wrote At the end of the day, bus services all over are being hit by a mix of higher costs and fewer people travelling.

If our bus operators are to operate commercially, there's only one thing that going to happen, and that's cutting of unremunerative services.

Therefore, if we want services to operate on corridors that have dropped below the point at which they can run commercially, they need to be supported in some way.

The alternative, having operators that provide services for the benefit of the community rather than to make a profit, was abolished as a political decision in the 1980s .....

If SCNE are making Sunderland changes at end of June, they must be announcing them soon, or advising VOSA.

(11 May 2023, 7:32 am)Ianthegoon wrote At the end of the day, bus services all over are being hit by a mix of higher costs and fewer people travelling.

If our bus operators are to operate commercially, there's only one thing that going to happen, and that's cutting of unremunerative services.

Therefore, if we want services to operate on corridors that have dropped below the point at which they can run commercially, they need to be supported in some way. 

The alternative, having operators that provide services for the benefit of the community rather than to make a profit, was abolished as a political decision in the 1980s .....

Or adapting them to meet the changing passenger needs and wants.

You mention the 1980s and despite all of the political dogma behind the decision to de-regulate the market, we've got a network which is pretty much the same as it was then and for a significant period prior. 
The shipyards, pits, thriving town centres and high streets that supported that network have gone, evolved or changed. 
Yet somehow the bus network hasn't. 

The mantra 'changing passenger habits' keeps getting thrown about, but I see very little in the way of operators actually responding in any other way than the ways you mention. Cuts and support. 

Fare offers, BSOG, WiFi, ticket machines, plug sockets - all funded by the taxpayer. 
Various liveries with slightly different angles or shapes. 
They've not worked. 

Let's look to the future and adapt what we've got, rather than continue throwing around scissors and holding out the begging bowl.

(11 May 2023, 8:52 am)Andreos1 wrote Or adapting them to meet the changing passenger needs and wants.

You mention the 1980s and despite all of the political dogma behind the decision to de-regulate the market, we've got a network which is pretty much the same as it was then and for a significant period prior. 
The shipyards, pits, thriving town centres and high streets that supported that network have gone, evolved or changed. 
Yet somehow the bus network hasn't. 

The mantra 'changing passenger habits' keeps getting thrown about, but I see very little in the way of operators actually responding in any other way than the ways you mention. Cuts and support. 

Fare offers, BSOG, WiFi, ticket machines, plug sockets - all funded by the taxpayer. 
Various liveries with slightly different angles or shapes. 
They've not worked. 

Let's look to the future and adapt what we've got, rather than continue throwing around scissors and holding out the begging bowl.

I agree

(10 May 2023, 8:06 pm)54APhotography wrote Thinned out services. Only one from 12 & 13 to survive. Tbh it doesn't look good.

Latest rumours are; 4 via Plains Farm, 12 withdrawn, 8 to survive (but in what form?), 18 undecided (to quote: "cos it's political" - I believe it's subsidised), 15 minute service on most routes. Remember, they are rumours though (the 12 withdrawal seems likely though given the source).

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(10 May 2023, 8:44 pm)Dan wrote Why would they buy routes?

These services are clearly under-performing which is the reason Stagecoach are allegedly cutting them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think it's more that they don't want to invest in the depot, or at least invest as little as possible (why do you think the gasbuses are going?), and to cater for the fact we're short of drivers, rather than the routes under-performing - they still seem very salty about the strikes.

The service cuts will allow the withdrawal of the remaining 3900s (of which IIRC there's only 6), and some of the gasbuses. It'll also mean they don't have to rely so much on overtime, thus reducing pay costs. The numbers being bounced around are 35 duties and 22 buses.

(11 May 2023, 3:02 pm)F114TML wrote Latest rumours are; 4 via Plains Farm, 12 withdrawn, 8 to survive (but in what form?), 18 undecided (to quote: "cos it's political" - I believe it's subsidised), 15 minute service on most routes. Remember, they are rumours though (the 12 withdrawal seems likely though given the source).

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I think it's more that they don't want to invest in the depot, or at least invest as little as possible (why do you think the gasbuses are going?), and to cater for the fact we're short of drivers, rather than the routes under-performing - they still seem very salty about the strikes.

The service cuts will allow the withdrawal of the remaining 3900s (of which IIRC there's only 6), and some of the gasbuses. It'll also mean they don't have to rely so much on overtime, thus reducing pay costs. The numbers being bounced around are 35 duties and 22 buses.

Withdrawing Service 12 leaves Essen way and Tunstall Road without a bus, unless something else is planned there ??

(11 May 2023, 3:28 pm)Economic505 wrote Withdrawing Service 12 leaves Essen way and Tunstall Road without a bus, unless something else is planned there ??

It'll end up as a Nexus route, no doubt (probably 61A all day so that'll be fun for those of us in Murton), or perhaps they could actually give the 99 a purpose rather than withdrawing it. Ironically it's only (unique) bit of the 12 that gets descent passenger loadings - perhaps helped by it being maximum £1.80 single between the town and Vicarage Farm. Once you get to Sainsbury's it tends to thin out (there's plenty of journeys you can go non-stop through the whole of Silksworth). Of course you get absolutely butchered at school times with it going past both St Aiden's and St Anthony's.

(11 May 2023, 3:52 pm)F114TML wrote It'll end up as a Nexus route, no doubt (probably 61A all day so that'll be fun for those of us in Murton), or perhaps they could actually give the 99 a purpose rather than withdrawing it. Ironically it's only (unique) bit of the 12 that gets descent passenger loadings - perhaps helped by it being maximum £1.80 single between the town and Vicarage Farm. Once you get to Sainsbury's it tends to thin out (there's plenty of journeys you can go non-stop through the whole of Silksworth). Of course you get absolutely butchered at school times with it going past both St Aiden's and St Anthony's.

They should reimagine Service 18 and run it along Premier Rd, Essen Way and direct to town via Tunstall Road, then on to Roker and Seaburn.

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(11 May 2023, 3:55 pm)Economic505 wrote They should reimagine Service 18 and run it along Premier Rd, Essen Way and direct to town via Tunstall Road, then on to Roker and Seaburn.

Or the 99 as you mentioned.

(11 May 2023, 3:02 pm)F114TML wrote Latest rumours are; 4 via Plains Farm, 12 withdrawn, 8 to survive (but in what form?), 18 undecided (to quote: "cos it's political" - I believe it's subsidised), 15 minute service on most routes. Remember, they are rumours though (the 12 withdrawal seems likely though given the source).

Interesting about the 3/4 changes. Is it mainly down to the 4 being quieter down Durham Rd (so picking up in Plains Farm is more beneficial than the 3) or would the 3 be withdrawn completely south of the city centre?