I stopped listening to the rumours when someone said the 20 was gonna get a 24 minute round trip (ie, 24 minutes to get from Fawcet Street to Pennywell and back to Fawcett Street).

Not sure how those registrations are done the past but seems like the 12 is a gonna if I'm right since it's only the 3/13 on the registration now.

Will leave Ashbrooke without a bus service now, possible escape for the Nexus 99 redirected that way?

The 12 was included in the registration
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...ls/603788/

(20 May 2023, 12:33 pm)F114TML wrote The 12 was included in the registration
https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...ls/603788/

Not on the new one it isn't just checked, that's the current registration. 

See: https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...ls/610443/

It wasn't too long ago (2015/16 I think?) - when the 12 and 13 both ran every 10 minutes between Silksworth and Fawcett Street. If the 12 is going, that would leave the Silksworth/Vicarage Farm area completely with GNE, a far cry from a decade ago when you'd have the 33/42/12/35 all competing along the same corridors...

(19 May 2023, 5:46 pm)Michael wrote PB0002404/20
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 313 (13, 3) Town End Farm, Hylton Castle Doxford Park, Farringdon

PB0002404/16
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 1011su (10, 10, 11) Pennywell Grangetown

PB0002404/311
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD X24 (X24A, X24) Sunderland Newcastle

PB0002404/57
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD E1E2 (E2, E6, E1) Sunderland South Shields

PB0002404/21
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 1234 (4, 3, 1, 2) South Shields Town Centre Biddick Hall Estate

PB0002404/44
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 18ss (18) South Shields Town Centre Brockley Whins

PB0002404/60
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 4su (4) Downhill Doxford Park

PB0002404/19
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 20 (20) Fawcett Street Pennywell

PB0002404/77
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD X1 (X1) Sunderland John Street Doxford International

PB0002404/22
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 78 (8, 7) South Shields Marsden

PB0002404/23
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 17 (17) South Shields Whiteleas

PB0002404/17
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 16 (16) Red House Estate Hastings Hill

PB0002404/48
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD 23 (23) Dene Estate Thorney Close

CSV:


Sunderland:

10/11: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 20 minutes on each route (every 10 minutes on common sections). Service 11 diverted via Hylton Road, rather than Pallion New Road

16: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

20: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 12 minutes.

3/12/13: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes on Service 3 and 13. SERVICE 12 WITHDRAWN. Service 3 will now omit Plains Farm and Gilley Law.

X24: Minor change to the Monday to Friday 1745 trip ex Newcastle.

23: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

E1/E2/E6: Minor changes to Monday to Saturday daytimes to improve headways with South Shields services. Evenings reduced to hourly on each route (20 minutes combined), with the loop via St. Mary's Way withdrawn and all services following the regular daytime route via John Street.

4: Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes. Will now operate via Plains Farm, replacing Service 3.

X1: Minor change to the Monday to Friday timetable



South Shields:


Service 1, 2: Saturday and Sunday morning service. Service 3, 4 Monday-Sunday regular service.Monday to Saturday daytime frequency on each route reduced to 15 minutes.


7/8: Monday-Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to every 15 minutes.

17: Monday - Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to 15 minutes.

18: Monday-Sunday regular service. Monday to Saturday daytime frequency reduced to 15 minutes.

Surprised by the Economics, I must say. I always thought it'd be better doing the nighttime route in the day, not the other way round. Didn't expect the 3 to be pulled from Gilley but having said that, if the 13's going up to 15 minutes, is there really any need for the 3 to go there too? I'm just hoping we're going to get a descent amount of standing/recovery time...

Anyone have the link for that? The one I found hasn't been updated to include them.

(21 May 2023, 11:02 am)F114TML wrote Surprised by the Economics, I must say. I always thought it'd be better doing the nighttime route in the day, not the other way round. Didn't expect the 3 to be pulled from Gilley but having said that, if the 13's going up to 15 minutes, is there really any need for the 3 to go there too? I'm just hoping we're going to get a descent amount of standing/recovery time...

Anyone have the link for that? The one I found hasn't been updated to include them.

https://www.vehicle-operator-licensing.s...es/browse/

Put the date in as "21.5.23" - and then click "Export as CSV" and it should open.

Well now 11 is diverted to Hylton Road will scupper Nexus when they need a bus at Pallion metro!

But don't understand this. 10 already goes there and the 20 to.

(21 May 2023, 1:12 pm)idiot wrote Well now 11 is diverted to Hylton Road will scupper Nexus when they need a bus at Pallion metro!

But don't understand this. 10 already goes there and the 20 to.

Ye its a odd change, unless info is missing from VOSA?

Also leaves Pallion shops (in front of them) with only the 18 and 99.. which have rubbish timetables, I doubt old people would want to walk extra.

(21 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Michael wrote Ye its a odd change, unless info is missing from VOSA?

Also leaves Pallion shops (in front of them) with only the 18 and 99.. which have rubbish timetables, I doubt old people would want to walk extra.

As I mentioned other week, Essen Way and Tunstall Road will no longer have a bus service.

(21 May 2023, 1:33 pm)Economic505 wrote As I mentioned other week, Essen Way and Tunstall Road will no longer have a bus service.

Unless stagecoach are waiting to see if nexus funds a replacement either re routing a section of secured service 99 to cover tunstall road to replace the 12 section where the 99 doesn’t cover, GNE could always bring back the 38 using solo 664 and repaint back in , wonder if stagecoach looking to see if the taxpayer/nexus to cough up for the 11 to go back along pallion new road


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(21 May 2023, 1:52 pm)cbma06 wrote Unless stagecoach are waiting to see if nexus funds a replacement either re routing a section of secured service 99 to cover tunstall road to replace the 12 section where the 99 doesn’t cover, GNE could always bring back the 38 using solo 664 and repaint back in , wonder if stagecoach looking to see if the taxpayer/nexus to cough up for the 11 to go back along pallion new road


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I don't think the 99 will be around for much longer - https://www.nexus.org.uk/consultation/it...service-99

The 11 was rerouted quite a few years back that direction also.

Petition at time by Gala Bingo assisted in the route being brought back. Can't see the bingo having enough clout customer wise now to warrant a say,,,,or another petition.

(21 May 2023, 1:33 pm)Economic505 wrote As I mentioned other week, Essen Way and Tunstall Road will no longer have a bus service.

Does seem like a random change, leaving quite a few people without a bus, the bus is popular with school kids too.

No doubt they'll be hell on, when Stagecoach announce the changes, if no replacement service is put in those sections.

---

(21 May 2023, 2:53 pm)ifm001 wrote The 11 was rerouted quite a few years back that direction also.

Petition at time by Gala Bingo assisted in the route being brought back. Can't see the bingo having enough clout customer wise now to warrant a say,,,,or another petition.

Same, leaves the Retail Park with a 18 and 99, which the timetables are shite tbh and the metro, which is also shite.

As we know the 99 is down for withdrawal so even less services by August.

-----


Wonder if Stagecoach, could of missed some info off for VOSA, such as swapping the 10 and 11 around in the Pallion area?

Tbh, you rarely pick up/drop off on the Pallion New Road. Trimdon street has GNE's 8 and 81. It's probably to compensate reduction on the 10 and 20. Hospital - town can get a fair few people on.

Quick question.. East Cleveland 1&2 on twitter saying delayed due to TC. What routes are these? Had a look on the website and couldn't find anything.

(21 May 2023, 7:44 pm)idiot wrote Quick question.. East Cleveland 1&2 on twitter saying delayed due to TC. What routes are these? Had a look on the website and couldn't find anything.

https://tis-kml-stagecoach.s3.amazonaws....MBO002.pdf

Why not just keep the 12 and have it every 30 mins. Axing it makes no sense. A lot of school kids use it for st aidens! 
I understand dropping the 3 from gilley law as there’s enough buses with the 13
Makes no sense dropping the 3 from plains farm for the 4 instead. What’s the reason behind this?? Gonna make the journey from Doxford to town ever lasting!!!
99 is waste of fuel would make sense for the 38 to return or the 61a to run all day by go north east

(22 May 2023, 12:03 am)Acky81 wrote Why not just keep the 12 and have it every 30 mins. Axing it makes no sense. A lot of school kids use it for st aidens! 
I understand dropping the 3 from gilley law as there’s enough buses with the 13
Makes no sense dropping the 3 from plains farm for the 4 instead. What’s the reason behind this?? Gonna make the journey from Doxford to town ever lasting!!!
99 is waste of fuel would make sense for the 38 to return or the 61a to run all day by go north east

The swap of the 3 and 4 in Plains Farm will purely be a decision to allow a PVR reduction - I’d imagine the 4 has slack in its timetable whereas the 3 will be tightened up with the move to a 15 min frequency (currently 1hr 36m round trip, likely to move to 1hr 30m on new 15 min frequency), hence saving a PVR.

The Plains Farm diversion probably feels worse than it actually is - the 3 is timed to take 4 mins between the Prospect and the bottom of Grindon Lane, whereas the 4 is timed take 1 (ie difference of 3 mins).

All in all, I’d say these are a fairly sensible set of changes, considering the post-Covid recovery of the network in Sunderland and the need to generate revenue or cut costs by £millions to fund the recent (inflated) pay award for their staff.


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(21 May 2023, 1:18 pm)Michael wrote Ye its a odd change, unless info is missing from VOSA?

Also leaves Pallion shops (in front of them) with only the 18 and 99.. which have rubbish timetables, I doubt old people would want to walk extra.

This was always going to happen, problem is people won't be able to get to B&Q or Morrisons by one bus. 18/99 for top end, 8 for B&Q

---

(22 May 2023, 5:00 am)Dan wrote The swap of the 3 and 4 in Plains Farm will purely be a decision to allow a PVR reduction - I’d imagine the 4 has slack in its timetable whereas the 3 will be tightened up with the move to a 15 min frequency (currently 1hr 36m round trip, likely to move to 1hr 30m on new 15 min frequency), hence saving a PVR.

The Plains Farm diversion probably feels worse than it actually is - the 3 is timed to take 4 mins between the Prospect and the bottom of Grindon Lane, whereas the 4 is timed take 1 (ie difference of 3 mins).

All in all, I’d say these are a fairly sensible set of changes, considering the post-Covid recovery of the network in Sunderland and the need to generate revenue or cut costs by £millions to fund the recent (inflated) pay award for their staff.


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This has a lot to do with cuts in fleets due to a yes man being in charge of Stagecoach NE

(22 May 2023, 5:51 pm)54APhotography wrote This was always going to happen, problem is people won't be able to get to B&Q or Morrisons by one bus. 18/99 for top end, 8 for B&Q

---

Aye, its going to be a right clart on, I bet the local councillor will say something, not like the company will care..........

(22 May 2023, 6:12 pm)Michael wrote Aye, its going to be a right clart on, I bet the local councillor will say something, not like the company will care..........

Of course they will say those that need the bus they will have a free pass, so they can get a bus to Southwick and change for an 18... Otherwise people can walk from Pallion... Walk? that will never catch on

Personally I don't see the issues with the 10/11. Least now people from Hendon and Pennywell on the 11 route get a direct bus to the Royal Hospital rather than a bulky good stores and a retail park next to the least used Metro station. I'm not sure why anyone would want to go on a bus to B&Q unless they're bored and randomly like browsing DIY stores as you literally couldn't buy anything. The rest of it is a 5 minute walk from the end of Hylton Road.

There's literally nothing else of note along there and the hourly 18 is more than enough.

(22 May 2023, 6:31 pm)Storx wrote Personally I don't see the issues with the 10/11. Least now people from Hendon and Pennywell on the 11 route get a direct bus to the Royal Hospital rather than a bulky good stores and a retail park next to the least used Metro station. I'm not sure why anyone would want to go on a bus to B&Q unless they're bored and randomly like browsing DIY stores as you literally couldn't buy anything. The rest of it is a 5 minute walk from the end of Hylton Road.

There's literally nothing else of note along there and the hourly 18 is more than enough.

Apart from the 18 timetable is horrendous?

https://bustimes.org/services/18-sunderl...2023-05-22&service=47176


Towards Seaburn:

07:35
08:55 (18A)
10:01
11:01
12:01
13:01
14:01
15:34 (18A) - last service to do the full route.
17:12/18:25 both go from Gilley Law to the Prospect only!


Towards Grindon:


07:36 (18A)
09:09
10:08
11:08
12:08
13:08
14:08 (18A)
16:48
18:02
19:09 (finishes at Pallion)

(22 May 2023, 7:06 pm)Michael wrote Apart from the 18 timetable is horrendous?

https://bustimes.org/services/18-sunderl...2023-05-22&service=47176


Towards Seaburn:

07:35
08:55 (18A)
10:01
11:01
12:01
13:01
14:01
15:34 (18A)  - last service to do the full route.
17:12/18:25 both go from Gilley Law to the Prospect only!


Towards Grindon:


07:36 (18A)
09:09
10:08
11:08
12:08
13:08
14:08 (18A)
16:48
18:02
19:09 (finishes at Pallion)

There's literally nothing there though other than the bingo hall which isn't already served by the Metro station. I understand the very rare person might want to go to the retail park but I can't see it, not to warrant a 15 minute bus service anyway.

The whole area around there is pretty much wasteland. Should there be more cross river links for Sunderland, other than just the poor 18 - yeah but that's another debate really.

(22 May 2023, 7:26 pm)Storx wrote There's literally nothing there though other than the bingo hall which isn't already served by the Metro station. I understand the very rare person might want to go to the retail park but I can't see it, not to warrant a 15 minute bus service anyway.

The whole area around there is pretty much wasteland. Should there be more cross river links for Sunderland, other than just the poor 18 - yeah but that's another debate really.

That's true, I'm surprised the Bingo is still open tbh, I agree, it doesn't warrant a 15 min service but I still think there should some sort of link to that area, even if its hourly.. to keep the once a week passengers happy...........................


I do wonder if the 99 will be kept due the changes and extended elsewhere.

(22 May 2023, 7:33 pm)Michael wrote That's true, I'm surprised the Bingo is still open tbh, I agree, it doesn't warrant a 15 min service but I still think there should some sort of link to that area, even if its hourly.. to keep the once a week passengers happy...........................


I do wonder if the 99 will be kept due the changes and extended elsewhere.

Yeah agreed.

Like if we didn't have 'turf wars' then I always think sending the 35 across the river would be better, something like and just split it:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.90474...13!1m0!3e0

Would make the 99 route actually useful and link unique places on the 35 rather than it being a long winded 3/4 for Town End Farm etc.

The 8 then could do the 35 bus route by the Stadium of Light and give a direct Southwark / Stadium of Light to Washington, CLS, Stanley connection.

It's bonkers that there isn't a bus from Washington to the SOL imo. Obviously never happen under the current system though.

(22 May 2023, 7:41 pm)Storx wrote Yeah agreed.

Like if we didn't have 'turf wars' then I always think sending the 35 across the river would be better, something like and just split it:

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/54.90474...13!1m0!3e0

Would make the 99 route actually useful and link unique places on the 35 rather than it being a long winded 3/4 for Town End Farm etc.

The 8 then could do the 35 bus route by the Stadium of Light and give a direct Southwark / Stadium of Light to Washington, CLS, Stanley connection.

It's bonkers that there isn't a bus from Washington to the SOL imo. Obviously never happen under the current system though.

Agree with the 8 & 35 switch, make better business sense

And the 8 & 35 would possibily add more layover time for both services, with the 8 being increased PVR 1, as 5 mins at Stanley & Sunderland with a few mins at both Washington and Chester-le-Street isn't enough.