(22 Sep 2023, 8:48 pm)pbjd wrote The 59 being extended to Middlesbrough is quite a bizzare change, can’t say I see the need for it other than at a push giving Tithe Barn and Elm Tree a bus further than the High Street.


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I think the question is going to be what route it takes into Middlesbrough. I think the road past McMillian college and goals is already well served by the 36/37/38 so makes no sense. Going via Acklem and Linthope will take quite a while to do so can’t see that route.  That leaves  either direct via A19 in which case a possibility of going into Teesdale and Teesside park or doubling back on itself and going along Portrack Lane.

(23 Sep 2023, 11:15 am)col87 wrote I think the question is going to be what route it takes into Middlesbrough. I think the road past McMillian college and goals is already well served by the 36/37/38 so makes no sense. Going via Acklem and Linthope will take quite a while to do so can’t see that route.  That leaves  either direct via A19 in which case a possibility of going into Teesdale and Teesside park or doubling back on itself and going along Portrack Lane.

They could well be throwing more buses down the 'core’ past Macmillan maybe in an effort to cope with loadings as they do get very busy. If it stayed every 15 then that would provide 12 buses an hour or an average of one every 5 min. Not sure whether the stand in Middlesbrough could cope though!


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(23 Sep 2023, 11:15 am)col87 wrote I think the question is going to be what route it takes into Middlesbrough. I think the road past McMillian college and goals is already well served by the 36/37/38 so makes no sense. Going via Acklem and Linthope will take quite a while to do so can’t see that route.  That leaves  either direct via A19 in which case a possibility of going into Teesdale and Teesside park or doubling back on itself and going along Portrack Lane.

Teesside Park is a good shout. Lets be honest, Stockton High Street is desolate these days and I wouldn't be surprised if we see further service cuts in Stockton due to the reduced footfall.

(15 Sep 2023, 3:08 pm)Michael wrote 29th October 2023:

PB0002404/311
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD X24 (X24, X24A) Sunderland Newcastle

PB0002404/89
Variation BUSWAYS TRAVEL SERVICES LTD X34 (X34) Newcastle Pilgrim Street South Shields Horsley Hill


Sunday runs up until Christmas?

X24/X34 Sunday timetables on traveline

(24 Sep 2023, 9:36 am)Michael wrote X24/X34 Sunday timetables on traveline

Both to be interworking, presumably ran by Sunderland.


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(24 Sep 2023, 9:56 am)pbjd wrote Both to be interworking, presumably ran by Sunderland.


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Ye.

Hopefully this is a permanent Sunday service.

Still dont know why they haven't sent the X34 to South Shields Interchange, if they timed it right they could interwork it with the X20 (to Fellgate)

(24 Sep 2023, 4:01 pm)V514DFT wrote Still dont know why they haven't sent the X34 to South Shields Interchange, if they timed it right they could interwork it with the X20 (to Fellgate)

In the words of Dan when I asked this a few months ago

"The 27 and metro provided enough capacity to South Shields so what would be the point".

(24 Sep 2023, 4:01 pm)V514DFT wrote Still dont know why they haven't sent the X34 to South Shields Interchange, if they timed it right they could interwork it with the X20 (to Fellgate)

It's meant for people who don't have a metro connection to get to Newcastle, that's why it goes the way it does. I live at Harton Nook so it's my default way to go to Newcastle, there's no reason why I'd use it to go into the town centre.

(24 Sep 2023, 4:19 pm)deanmachine wrote It's meant for people who don't have a metro connection to get to Newcastle, that's why it goes the way it does. I live at Harton Nook so it's my default way to go to Newcastle, there's no reason why I'd use it to go into the town centre.

Having previously been a driver on the X34 rota, I think it simply wouldn’t work going to the interchange as no matter which way you send it someone is gonna lose out on what is currently a fairly quick bus to the town traffic dependant.


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This is from a more competitive POV (NOT the Wiltshire Drive issue) but if Stagecoach's cancellations are low and GNE can't get a handle of cancellations affecting the 307 by January, could an opportunity arise for Stagecoach to split the 22 to serve Hadrian Park every 20 minutes?

(24 Sep 2023, 4:38 pm)pbjd wrote Having previously been a driver on the X34 rota, I think it simply wouldn’t work going to the interchange as no matter which way you send it someone is gonna lose out on what is currently a fairly quick bus to the town traffic dependant.


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How does the South Sheilds rotas work btw, I think Sunderland are all on the same rota (not sure tho)

(24 Sep 2023, 5:16 pm)L469 YVK wrote This is from a more competitive POV (NOT the Wiltshire Drive issue) but if Stagecoach's cancellations are low and GNE can't get a handle of cancellations affecting the 307 by January, could an opportunity arise for Stagecoach to split the 22 to serve Hadrian Park every 20 minutes?

Why would they do this. U keep mentioning this and its getting annoying and boring. There no reason. Even if they were to do this it would be easier to send the 22 straight into Hadrian Park via thr route now. Just extended it there. It would make no sense to split thr route

(24 Sep 2023, 5:31 pm)Busu284 wrote Why would they do this. U keep mentioning this and its getting annoying and boring. There no reason. Even if they were to do this it would be easier to send the 22 straight into Hadrian Park via thr route now. Just extended it there. It would make no sense to split thr route

Totally different motive to previous suggestions.

If GNE are cancelling 307 journeys at short notice such as the 23:00 ex Newcastle plus other outlined cancellations, Stagecoach could potentially win passengers if they were able to run a stable service that passengers know will turn up - albeit slightly longer than the 307 but not much different to the 57/58 journey times.

Splitting the route to run every 20 minutes to Cobalt & Silverlink OR every 20 minutes to Hadrian Park would make more sense rather than all journeys going via Hadrian Park. Although Sunday journeys to Silverlink would perhaps need to go via Hadrian Park.

Only question is how would the peak 22X journeys work although serving Hadrian Park every 20 minutes would drop the PVR by 1x

(24 Sep 2023, 5:31 pm)Busu284 wrote Why would they do this. U keep mentioning this and its getting annoying and boring. There no reason. Even if they were to do this it would be easier to send the 22 straight into Hadrian Park via thr route now. Just extended it there. It would make no sense to split thr route

I'm not 100% certain but I believe he lives in Hadrian Park

(24 Sep 2023, 6:26 pm)Storx wrote I'm not 100% certain but I believe he lives in Hadrian Park

I don't actually haha! But if I was in Stagecoach's shoes now looking at Percy Main's cancellation issues, I'd be looking at taking advantage where possible.............although again......Stagecoach could look a bit further towards the Coast with the 22 if they wanted to as the returns would be greater rather than Hadrian Park especially on hot days!

(24 Sep 2023, 6:31 pm)L469 YVK wrote I don't actually haha! But if I was in Stagecoach's shoes now looking at Percy Main's cancellation issues, I'd be looking at taking advantage where possible.............although again......Stagecoach could look a bit further towards the Coast with the 22 if they wanted to as the returns would be greater rather than Hadrian Park especially on hot days!

Ha fair, to be fair the 1 and 22 should be merged together in an ideal world. They literally just duplicate either other for most of it. Just a shame it's a different operator.

Have something like

22: Throckley to Cobalt (Every 15 Minutes) - No Changes
23: Lemington to Whitley Bay (Every 15 Minutes) (1 route from Whitley Bay to Newcastle, 22 route to Lemington, extended through to Combe Drive via Valley View)

22/23: Every 7.5 Minutes, Lemington to Howdon

It probably deserves the extra frequency in the middle tbh.

(24 Sep 2023, 5:20 pm)Unber43 wrote How does the South Sheilds rotas work btw, I think Sunderland are all on the same rota (not sure tho)

Nope. E1/2/6 , X24 and 'Town' routes (3/4/8/10/11/13/16/18/18A/20/23/X1) have their own rotas. Sometimes there is crossover; E duties appear on the X24 and school rotas for example, or an E driver who's spare may get a town duty if they know the town routes. There's also the usual/expected splits, lates, staff bus, etc rotas

(22 Sep 2023, 7:44 pm)Michael wrote 5th November:

PB0001987/21
Variation CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD 58 (57, 57, 58) Stockton High Street Stockton High Street

PB0001987/20
Variation CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD 59 (59) North Tees Hospital Middlesbrough Bus Station

PB0001987/221
Variation CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD 35st (35) Stockton High Street Billingham High Grange

PB0001987/2
Variation CLEVELAND TRANSIT LTD 363738 (36, 37, 38) Middlesbrough Hartlepool/North Tees/ Norton Glebe

Bus Times now have the details

59 - Most journeys extended from Stockton High Street to Middlesbrough Bus Station (approx. 0645 - 2015) and Sundays (approx. hours 0915-1730) direct via Stockton Road at times when 36/37/38 don't operate this way
57/58 - Minor changes to timings of some afternoon trips and to offer a standardised Monday to Friday and Saturday timetable from 0900 until end of service.
35 - Revised route and timetable. Diverted via Norton Grange replacing service 38 and terminates at north end of Stockton High Street.
36/37/38 - Monday to Sunday services. Revised route of service 36/37/38 to divert via Teesside Park during daytimes.

(25 Sep 2023, 9:13 am)Kuyoyo wrote Bus Times now have the details

59 - Most journeys extended from Stockton High Street to Middlesbrough Bus Station (approx. 0645 - 2015) and Sundays (approx. hours 0915-1730) direct via Stockton Road at times when 36/37/38 don't operate this way
57/58 - Minor changes to timings of some afternoon trips and to offer a standardised Monday to Friday and Saturday timetable from 0900 until end of service.
35 - Revised route and timetable. Diverted via Norton Grange replacing service 38 and terminates at north end of Stockton High Street.
36/37/38 - Monday to Sunday services. Revised route of service 36/37/38 to divert via Teesside Park during daytimes.

Well that strikes me as, sorry to say, a disaster waiting to happen. Every 7 mins is overkill for Teesside Park, and knowing how tight the scheduling usually is… not going to go well.


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(25 Sep 2023, 8:00 pm)tyresmoke wrote Well that strikes me as, sorry to say, a disaster waiting to happen. Every 7 mins is overkill for Teesside Park, and knowing how tight the scheduling usually is… not going to go well.


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I think it'll be interesting. It's first time there's really been a proper frequent service to the place.

It's not too much different to Durham Arnison and the buses going towards there can be packed, so can't see why it can't be the same there. They're not too dissimilar, there's buggar all in Stockton nowadays and Middlesbrough isn't far behind.

Ahh we back to the Hadrian Park fiasco vs 22

I would like to put a mix into this

Re-instate the 311 service (Newcastle to Hadrian Park )

However ensure this service operates via Wiltshire Drive

This ensures that additional resources can be placed on this service for match days create a non stop service if required for other services when busy etc


If a bus isn't running the 311 could say and told to stop at every stop the 307 isn't running but from Hadrian Park to North Shields I will continue with a "through ticket"

I stipulate Wiltshire Drive for a reason

51 on an evening has very low numbers that secured service could be deployed elsewhere funding wise the link needs to change on an evening it follows a "coast road agreement bus"


Adding Wiltshire into the loop is approx 3min tops if you look at the timetable

I would far rather see a 311 service withdrawn and another bus incorporate a 3min loop as a diversion than a service not operating at all

The issue is not about buses it's drivers driving buses

If you want another cat in the pigeon I think I the 41A as a nexus secured service should go from Hadrian Park go Newcastle via Wallsend Byker but that's a different debate

(25 Sep 2023, 10:59 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Ahh we back to the Hadrian Park fiasco vs 22

I would like to put a mix into this

Re-instate the 311 service (Newcastle to Hadrian Park )

However ensure this service operates via Wiltshire Drive

This ensures that additional resources can be placed on this service for match days create a non stop service if required for other services when busy etc


If a bus isn't running the 311 could say and told to stop at every stop the 307 isn't running but from Hadrian Park to North Shields I will continue with a "through ticket"

I stipulate Wiltshire Drive for a reason

51 on an evening has very low numbers that secured service could be deployed elsewhere funding wise the link needs to change on an evening it follows a "coast road agreement bus"


Adding Wiltshire into the loop is approx 3min tops if you look at the timetable

I would far rather see a 311 service withdrawn and another bus incorporate a 3min loop as a diversion than a service not operating at all

The issue is not about buses it's drivers driving buses

If you want another cat in the pigeon I  think I the 41A as a nexus secured service should go from Hadrian Park go Newcastle via Wallsend  Byker  but that's a different debate

The 41A is only a secured service on a evening and Sunday - the ones that GCT operate. 

Even if it was secured, I doubt nexus would put resource into duplicating buses from Wallsend to Newcastle.

(25 Sep 2023, 10:59 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Ahh we back to the Hadrian Park fiasco vs 22

I would like to put a mix into this

Re-instate the 311 service (Newcastle to Hadrian Park )

However ensure this service operates via Wiltshire Drive

This ensures that additional resources can be placed on this service for match days create a non stop service if required for other services when busy etc


If a bus isn't running the 311 could say and told to stop at every stop the 307 isn't running but from Hadrian Park to North Shields I will continue with a "through ticket"

I stipulate Wiltshire Drive for a reason

51 on an evening has very low numbers that secured service could be deployed elsewhere funding wise the link needs to change on an evening it follows a "coast road agreement bus"


Adding Wiltshire into the loop is approx 3min tops if you look at the timetable

I would far rather see a 311 service withdrawn and another bus incorporate a 3min loop as a diversion than a service not operating at all

The issue is not about buses it's drivers driving buses

If you want another cat in the pigeon I  think I the 41A as a nexus secured service should go from Hadrian Park go Newcastle via Wallsend  Byker  but that's a different debate

No No No No No. No more 311. That service was a complete waste of time. Litral the 310 but with Hadrian Park as its terminal. I was so glad they withdrawn that route. 307 is a lot simpler. We don't need the 22 to Hadrian Park. It makes no sense and it's getting annoying hearing about it. Same with the Wiltshire Drive talks

(26 Sep 2023, 5:16 pm)Busu284 wrote No No No No No. No more 311. That service was a complete waste of time. Litral the 310 but with Hadrian Park as its terminal. I was so glad they withdrawn that route. 307 is a lot simpler. We don't need the 22 to Hadrian Park. It makes no sense and it's getting annoying hearing about it. Same with the Wiltshire Drive talks

Totally agreed with the 311, pointless bus route.

The Coast Road bus services suck imo. Everywhere in the red below has absolutely none at all, a way too long +50 minutes, or an unfrequent  (1 BPH) bus / metro service towards Newcastle and places in orange are way too slow. Yet we're talking about more buses for places like Hadrian Park which imo is overbused. 2 BPH. Is more than enough there.



Then they wonder why there's a traffic jam at Corner House every night... I know someone is quite vocal on here about the Marden mess and I agree with him.

I do respect the issues of high car usage, but it's not an excuse to provide nothing imo.

(26 Sep 2023, 5:16 pm)Busu284 wrote No No No No No. No more 311. That service was a complete waste of time. Litral the 310 but with Hadrian Park as its terminal. I was so glad they withdrawn that route. 307 is a lot simpler. We don't need the 22 to Hadrian Park. It makes no sense and it's getting annoying hearing about it. Same with the Wiltshire Drive talks

Wasn't intended as another Wiltshire Drive debate by any means! It was more about Stagecoach offering competition to what seems daily cancellations on the 307. And before anyone comments that Stagecoach would suffer cancellations splitting the 22, it would actually 'reduce' the PVR by 1x vehicle.

Interesting...

So one debater says there is too many buses going Hadrian Park and the next debater thinks an additional bus service is required

Random fact

From Battlehill Drive to St Mary Place 306 bus vs car is an additional 2 min journey time meaning it is quicker by bus than car factoring parking time etc....

Why wouldn't that sort of quicker by bus method be promoted more

(26 Sep 2023, 10:14 pm)DaveFromUpNorth wrote Interesting...

So  one debater says there is too many buses going  Hadrian Park and the next debater thinks an additional bus service is required

Random fact

From Battlehill Drive to St Mary Place 306 bus vs car is an additional 2 min journey time meaning it is quicker by bus than car factoring parking time etc....

Why wouldn't that sort of quicker by bus method be promoted more

But is it.  what if you live 5 minutes from the bus stop? Its then 3 minutes slower!

Tbh when the time difference is that small, does it really matter anyway? The main reason I drive into work is because the bus is some 20-25 minutes slower, and a half hourly frequency, because it has to go all the way round Murton.
I think the loop is big enough that you could reasonably justify a 62 which does the same as the 61 but goes the other way round Murton, and I'd switch in a heartbeat if that did happen.

(25 Sep 2023, 8:00 pm)tyresmoke wrote Well that strikes me as, sorry to say, a disaster waiting to happen. Every 7 mins is overkill for Teesside Park, and knowing how tight the scheduling usually is… not going to go well.


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On the other hand it means I can go to Teeside park direct from Hartlepool if I wanted to. Saying that though I think if you offered a choice most people in Hartlepool would probably prefer a service to North Tees hospital instead.

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(25 Sep 2023, 8:05 pm)Storx wrote I think it'll be interesting. It's first time there's really been a proper frequent service to the place.

It's not too much different to Durham Arnison and the buses going towards there can be packed, so can't see why it can't be the same there. They're not too dissimilar, there's buggar all in Stockton nowadays and Middlesbrough isn't far behind.

Now Wilko has gone for good with parts of the shopping centre more or less derelict and the indoor market literally falling to bits Hartlepool Town centre is also quite poor with not really a lot in it.