Spotted on Facebook that City Transport is intending to run essentially a short 4 (Galleries to Heworth). They claim to have Nexus support to submit a short notice registration:

Hi all - some positive news in that Nexus are happy to support us registering a bus service at short notice!

This means that the service will no longer have to work on the original proposal of it being pre booked, and that instead you will be able to board and pay the driver like a regular service bus.

We do still intend to pick up only at Galleries, Concord and Heworth, as we are expecting the service to be extremely busy - although we will possibly be able to drop off at any stop.

We are hoping to submit all the documents to the Traffic Commissioner on Monday morning and start the service literally as soon as they give us the approval - although please realise that this step could take a few days.

There is an awful lot of work for me and my team to get this going so please bear with us, and I will do my best to keep you all updated on this group. If you have any questions please put them in the comments and I will get round to responding as soon as I can.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/10400303...360431794/

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If this goes ahead, a lot more companies will start doing this, I mean there is loads.

20. 56. 60, 10. Maybe heavily reduced but maybe we might see more of this. if this happens could be massive for Independants

I'd be genuinely amazed if that gets approved and others weren't then looking at the following.....

Newcastle to Metrocentre is around 20 mins each way

Birtley to Gateshead is around 25 mins each way

Wrekenton to Gateshead is around 20 mins each way

Metrocentre via Dunston to Gateshead is around 25 mins each way

Sunderland to Houghton is around 25 mins each way

Crawcrook to Metrocentre is about 25 mins each way

Half tempted to buy my own Bus!

Is this going to be numbered as the 4?

Update 6th November - All documents have been submitted to the Office of the Traffic Commissioner for the service to start immediately - all we are waiting for now is their 'go-ahead' (iif you'll pardon the pun) and the service can start.

I have phoned several times today to chase this, and Nexus to their credit have also contacted them so hopefully we can get over this final hurdle ASAP.
Nexus are also producing some timetables for us, and we will publish these as soon as available. I will do a follow-up post for people to share with the service details.


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[emoji845] NEW BUS SERVICE FOR WASHINGTON AND HEWORTH [emoji845]



City Transport has today submitted an application to the Office of the Traffic Commissioner to operate a service between Washington, Concord and Heworth Metro, numbered c4, starting as soon as approval is given by the OTC.

This service will operate Monday to Friday, hourly from 7am until 6pm (with a gap in the middle of the day to facilitate driver break).

The service will operate a similar route to the other operators' service 4 between Washington and Heworth, with a few exceptions -


• Galleries Bus Station is currently closed, so the service will start and finish at the stops in the Sainsbury's Car Park at The Galleries.

• Will not serve Follingsby Park



All other stops along the route will be served.

Fares for this service will be flat single fares only - £3 adult and £2 child (5-15yrs). Concessionary passes are accepted in line with local rules.

Please before anyone gives any commentary on fares understand that we do not have the economies of scale that large bus operators have when it comes to our operating costs, and we are operating this service fully commercially without any financial support from the local authority.

Please see the timetable below, and should you have any questions comment below and I will respond as soon as I am able.

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Stanley Travel posted something about it being 10 week process, wonder if this might change their mind

C4 is quite the explosive route number too.

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Does anyone know what type of bus will be operating it, as it could be a decker

(06 Nov 2023, 10:19 pm)Unber43 wrote Does anyone know what type of bus will be operating it, as it could be a decker

They've got an old 58 plate GNE Merc, don't know about anything else.

(06 Nov 2023, 11:08 pm)deanmachine wrote They've got an old 58 plate GNE Merc, don't know about anything else.

City Transport Group 5811 / YJ51 RCV by kieron mathews, on Flickr

This as well


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Oh thats who owns that.

I saw it on the felling bypass, and had no idea who owns its

@everyonee ‼️THE SERVICE HAS BEEN REGISTERED AND WILL START TOMORROW (8TH NOVEMBER)‼️
See you all tomorrow!
JUST TO REMIND YOU ALL WE ARE SELLING CASH SINGLE FARES ONLY - £3 ADULT AND £2 CHILD, AND THE BUS DEPARTS FROM THE SAINSBURY'S CAR PARK STOP AT WASHINGTON GALLERIES, AND STOP X AT HEWORTH METRO
Nexus timetable below - they have told us they will be updating bus stop liners tomorrow.
https://www.nexus.org.uk/.../documents/b...081123.pdf

Impressive turn around

If only more indies were around and available

Impressive an independent has fought their way through the bureaucracy to register this. A shame the likes of SNE and ANE haven't done anything. Yes I know there will be driver challenges though with their downsized ops in Sunderland and Shields you'd think they'd have some headroom by now. Also, presume there'd be nothing stopping them looking to agency drivers to operate new routes along core GNE corridors. I get that it would be expensive, but if they took a risk and embedded themselves on e.g. 20, 21 27, 56 routes, potentially there could be a permanent shift of patronage. Hopefully we will see a lot more of this as the GNE fiasco carries on and maybe the "management" will be in for a shock when they find their network and customers gone for good once they grow up or let the adults do the negotiating.

(07 Nov 2023, 8:50 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Impressive an independent has fought their way through the bureaucracy to register this.  A shame the likes of SNE and ANE haven't done anything.  Yes I know there will be driver challenges though with their downsized ops in Sunderland and Shields you'd think they'd have some headroom by now.  Also, presume there'd be nothing stopping them looking to agency drivers to operate new routes along core GNE corridors.  I get that it would be expensive, but if they took a risk and embedded themselves on e.g. 20, 21 27, 56 routes, potentially there could be a permanent shift of patronage.  Hopefully we will see a lot more of this as the GNE fiasco carries on and maybe the "management" will be in for a shock when they find their network and customers gone for good once they grow up or let the adults do the negotiating.

I'm really surprised at Stagecoach in particular. It'd only take a finite amount of resource to say put the 100 back on between Newcastle and Metrocentre, even on a much-reduced half hour frequency, but they and Arriva just don't seem bothered. Despite train currently being the only sensible option between the two. It's another example of why the deregulated market doesn't work.

If I was Stagecoach Sunderland I would be running service

56 Sunderland - Newcastle (every 30 Mins) PVR 6
42 - Sunderland - Silksworth (every 30 Mins) PVR 3
60 - Sunderland - Parkside (every 30 Mins) PVR 5
20X - Sunderland - Durham (every 30 Mins) PVR 5
Extend the 3 to Low Moorsley too PVR 2 Extra

(07 Nov 2023, 8:50 pm)stagecoachbusdepot wrote Impressive an independent has fought their way through the bureaucracy to register this.  A shame the likes of SNE and ANE haven't done anything.  Yes I know there will be driver challenges though with their downsized ops in Sunderland and Shields you'd think they'd have some headroom by now.  Also, presume there'd be nothing stopping them looking to agency drivers to operate new routes along core GNE corridors.  I get that it would be expensive, but if they took a risk and embedded themselves on e.g. 20, 21 27, 56 routes, potentially there could be a permanent shift of patronage.  Hopefully we will see a lot more of this as the GNE fiasco carries on and maybe the "management" will be in for a shock when they find their network and customers gone for good once they grow up or let the adults do the negotiating.

City Transport is using one bus to operate a very limited service which will make them a bit of money.  It is unlikely to continue once GNE returns to normal service.  

Surely both ANE and SNE should concentrate on getting their own houses in order before trying to muscle in on routes that will take resources and manpower to do properly.

Surprised theyre not using their decker

(07 Nov 2023, 8:55 pm)Adrian wrote I'm really surprised at Stagecoach in particular. It'd only take a finite amount of resource to say put the 100 back on between Newcastle and Metrocentre, even on a much-reduced half hour frequency, but they and Arriva just don't seem bothered. Despite train currently being the only sensible option between the two. It's another example of why the deregulated market doesn't work.

Risky for Stagecoach to do anything as they need to be careful as there's no doubt going to be big questions why both GoNorthEast and Arriva are both being a paid an extra pound for doing the same job.

They've already had 2 strikes over pay, and I wouldn't be surprised it's the last. Those routes on West Road would be a nice little earner to compensate for the 20 GNE lost, for example.

Personally, I'd play it safe aswell, but then again I'm generally quite risk averse on stuff like that.

Now I am surprised that Arriva and Stagecoach haven't gone on a big viral advertising campaign and aren't poaching extremely unhappy GNE drivers with a decent bonus for signing up etc.

Aren't they all supposed to be friend now??

(07 Nov 2023, 8:55 pm)Adrian wrote I'm really surprised at Stagecoach in particular. It'd only take a finite amount of resource to say put the 100 back on between Newcastle and Metrocentre, even on a much-reduced half hour frequency, but they and Arriva just don't seem bothered. Despite train currently being the only sensible option between the two. It's another example of why the deregulated market doesn't work.

I've thought about this for a while to be honest and the only thing I can think of for them not doing it - is the time and effort to sort resource out vs the actual duration of the strike. 

They could spend weeks planning and preparing, only for the strike to end a day after starting the service. 

I applaud City for taking on the risk of running the C4 and wish them all the luck in the world BTW. 
It could be almost a repeat of the Redby v GNE bus war when GNE return?

(07 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx wrote Risky for Stagecoach to do anything as they need to be careful as there's no doubt going to be big questions why both GoNorthEast and Arriva are both being a paid an extra pound for doing the same job.

They've already had 2 strikes over pay, and I wouldn't be surprised it's the last. Those routes on West Road would be a nice little earner to compensate for the 20 GNE lost, for example.

Personally, I'd play it safe aswell, but then again I'm generally quite risk averse on stuff like that.

Now I am surprised that Arriva and Stagecoach haven't gone on a big viral advertising campaign and aren't poaching extremely unhappy GNE drivers with a decent bonus for signing up etc.

I don't understand your connection between driver pay and registering a bus route? 

Stagecoach *have* gone on a recruitment campaign; they're offering a £1000 bonus to qualified drivers... https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com...us-_JR6143

(07 Nov 2023, 9:35 pm)Adrian wrote I don't understand your connection between driver pay and registering a bus route? 

Stagecoach *have* gone on a recruitment campaign; they're offering a £1000 bonus to qualified drivers... https://stagecoach.wd3.myworkdayjobs.com...us-_JR6143

It's ended that now, ended last week if I'm right.

Just risky to be jumping on other corridors when your house has it's own issues. If you suddenly go tits up, and that results in strikes, which has already happened. Then is it worth losing you're core corridors because you jumped in.

If you're house was in perfect order and there's no risks of strikes etc, then maybe an expansion plan might be an idea.

(07 Nov 2023, 9:30 pm)Storx wrote Risky for Stagecoach to do anything as they need to be careful as there's no doubt going to be big questions why both GoNorthEast and Arriva are both being a paid an extra pound for doing the same job.

They've already had 2 strikes over pay, and I wouldn't be surprised it's the last. Those routes on West Road would be a nice little earner to compensate for the 20 GNE lost, for example.

Personally, I'd play it safe aswell, but then again I'm generally quite risk averse on stuff like that.

Now I am surprised that Arriva and Stagecoach haven't gone on a big viral advertising campaign and aren't poaching extremely unhappy GNE drivers with a decent bonus for signing up etc.

BIB - Can't see Arriva or Stagecoach drivers going on strike (or any others). What routes on West Road? Little earner for who, GNE or an independent? 20 what GNE lost, services?

(07 Nov 2023, 9:50 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote BIB - Can't see Arriva or Stagecoach drivers going on strike (or any others). What routes on West Road? Little earner for who, GNE or an independent? 20 what GNE lost, services?

I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm)Storx wrote I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

Really they should take the GNE Union approach and negotiate as one, not separately. Theyre all due a pay rise soon, I defo know Sunderland is. 

Isnt Darlington paid like £12.12

(07 Nov 2023, 10:00 pm)Storx wrote I don't know mind, Stagecoach South Shields is a dodgy depot which is paid less than everywhere else as Newcastle has always been paid more and Stockton and Sunderland have both striked to narrow the gap. Not 100% sure if it's changed, but I don't believe it has. Latest applications still have it 50p than the other depots pretty much though.

It was just hypothetical, someone suggested taking on the GNE 20, so if the boot flew the opposite way and for whatever reason Stagecoach ended on strike, then I'm sure someone wouldn't mind doing the opposite as they done it to be sort of spat.

There's also the big problem that Arriva Northumbria is paid substantially more than Arriva Durham for doing the exact same job aswell.

I'm aware of the pay differences across the depots - and it's fair pay, because it's based on revenue. Newcastle is a successful network.

GNE would never be interested in taking on Stagecoach routes in South Tyneside or Newcastle. 

Arriva Northumbria is more profitable than Arriva Durham County I believe. Plus with I-Squared Capital having bought Arriva, I expect there will be rebrands, new services and pay changes anyway.

EDIT - To add, there might well be disputes at Arriva or Stagecoach over pay, but I don't think it will involve strikes. GNE on strike is the worst because they are massive and lots of communities are cut off, Arriva Northumbria on strike would hit Northumberland and obviously Stagecoach in Shields would only affect Stagecoach in Shields.

(07 Nov 2023, 10:03 pm)Unber43 wrote Really they should take the GNE Union approach and negotiate as one, not separately. Theyre all due a pay rise soon, I defo know Sunderland is. 

Isnt Darlington paid like £12.12

Aye agreed, it just asks for trouble with why is x paid more than y strikes and it's happened twice now with Stagecoach pretty much.

£13.52 according to this - https://uk.indeed.com/q-arriva-l-darling...80ac65ce9f, seems like all of Arriva Durham County are doing it together now as they're all on the same.

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(07 Nov 2023, 10:07 pm)OrangeArrow49 wrote I'm aware of the pay differences across the depots - and it's fair pay, because it's based on revenue. Newcastle is a successful network.

GNE would never be interested in taking on Stagecoach routes in South Tyneside or Newcastle. 

Arriva Northumbria is more profitable than Arriva Durham County I believe. Plus with I-Squared Capital having bought Arriva, I expect there will be rebrands, new services and pay changes anyway.

Staff and unions don't care about revenue though as they seem to be on a right go lately. They'll just see we're paid £13.08, they're on £13.52. Right we want £13.52... Everything else goes out the window there.

Actually believe Arriva Durham County is usually more profitable than Arriva Northumbria though. Arriva is strong in Stockton, Darlington and the X's in Redcar. The 8 (Stockton), 15 (Stockton) and 63 (Redcar) outside the Newcastle stagecoach routes are the most frequent single bus route in the North East now, if I'm right.

Who knows though, it's all speculation that though.

Ridiculous nobody has put a Metrocentre service on