(13 Dec 2023, 11:07 am)Rob44 wrote As ive said before GNE already asked ages ago if more buses could use Swing bridge and were told no, so unless this is an exceptional circumstance i cant see that decision changing... PLUS has anyone been on the quay side at peak hours??? it could take the bus 30 minutes to get from the gateshead end to the top of dean street

Make it buses/taxis/loading vehicles only?

Those exceptional circumstances like football traffic which causes them to use it regularly, you cannot have a working, reliable transportation system without the council being helpful instead of saying no at every turn

(12 Dec 2023, 6:49 pm)Ambassador wrote I can’t begrudge the Santa Bus, it’s good corporate social behaviour. It’s lovely to see the reaction from families, some in deprived areas who won’t get a lot, but it raises a smile.

Onto regulation. It does seem to be an issue around Gateshead, but traffic is challenging. I think we could see more proactive London style turnarounds on the high frequency routes. Ie turn an Angel at…the Angel etc

But with roadworks at St Nicholas/High Level, A1 and Birtley it’s a difficult puzzle to solve…and the Tyne Bridge closures will only make it worse

I agree. I think as a company, they do a lot of nonsense stuff, but this isn't one of them. It's something that provides real value to communities, for the reasons you mention in your post.

Furthermore, it's likely to be ran by managers or volunteers, who otherwise wouldn't be on the road. 

(13 Dec 2023, 9:14 am)Unber43 wrote Go North East definitely should be developing a plan soon, really every service going from Metrocentre into Newcastle except the 6 should use Swing Bridge, on the way back go Via Central Station as there is usually in my expierence atleast no traffic going the other way.

And services going into Gateshead, should go down Bottle Bank, over the Swing Bridge, up Dean Street, Right at Market Street and either Blacklett or John Dobson Street (or maybe split them up to avoid so much traffic) into Eldon Square, then leaving will be intresting as there is no real way to do it via Tyne Bridge as its quite hard to get into Gateshead Bus Station and that will add time onto the journey, the only thing I can really think off is it goes its current way then before high level it turns right and goes through Central, over Redheugh and Askew Road, but that too will add time onto the journey, for that to work there needs to be some sort of bus prioity sorting out between Central and Askew West as on a match day that gets horrendous

See, I don't think they can develop a plan solely. They've two options available IMO; the 'do nothing' approach or the nuclear option.

The 'do nothing' approach would be to continue to run as is, then regulate (or not, as the case usually is nowadays) buses that are running considerably late. The impact of this is that there's no real timetable for buses in/out of Newcastle and journey times are considerably increased. The benefit is that customers can continue to get a bus to/from Newcastle, if they're willing to persevere for long enough.

The nuclear option is to terminate everything at Gateshead Interchange. The benefit is that everything should run on time, and if it doesn't, it'll almost certainly start the trip away from Gateshead on time. Your average X1 trip, you're saving 28 minutes by not doing Gateshead > Newcastle > Gateshead. The downside of this is that all passengers would have to change at Gateshead Interchange and use the Metro, which at peak times, I don't think would be able to cope with the increase in passenger numbers. The withdrawal of the Monkseaton to Pelaw peak services doesn't help with this. There's also the question of whether Metro would allow ticket acceptance, given that every time they need it from bus operators, the receipt book comes out...

Unless TNE, Newcastle City Council and the operators can come up with a sensible diversionary route with bus priority, then I think the nuclear option is probably the only way forward.

(13 Dec 2023, 11:12 am)Unber43 wrote Make it buses/taxis/loading vehicles only?

That's an idea but then if you a car driver wanting to get to quay side your going to have to go over tyne bridge and double back on yourself adding to the the congestion that the buses are trying to avoid. also sending cars over the tyne bridge and along passed the bottom of big market who are trying to get to west end of town meaning they would hold up buses at top of dean street even more?

(13 Dec 2023, 11:15 am)Rob44 wrote That's an idea but then if you a car driver wanting to get to quay side your going to have to go over tyne bridge and double back on yourself adding to the the congestion that the buses are trying to avoid. also sending cars over the tyne bridge and along passed the bottom of big market who are trying to get to west end of town meaning they would hold up buses at top of dean street even more?

Could that not push people to park at Heworth or Regent Centre/Northumberland Park and possibly get the metro or 27 into Newcastle?

(13 Dec 2023, 11:13 am)Adrian wrote I agree. I think as a company, they do a lot of nonsense stuff, but this isn't one of them. It's something that provides real value to communities, for the reasons you mention in your post.

Furthermore, it's likely to be ran by managers or volunteers, who otherwise wouldn't be on the road. 


See, I don't think they can develop a plan solely. They've two options available IMO; the 'do nothing' approach or the nuclear option.

The 'do nothing' approach would be to continue to run as is, then regulate (or not, as the case usually is nowadays) buses that are running considerably late. The impact of this is that there's no real timetable for buses in/out of Newcastle and journey times are considerably increased. The benefit is that customers can continue to get a bus to/from Newcastle, if they're willing to persevere for long enough.

The nuclear option is to terminate everything at Gateshead Interchange. The benefit is that everything should run on time, and if it doesn't, it'll almost certainly start the trip away from Gateshead on time. Your average X1 trip, you're saving 28 minutes by not doing Gateshead > Newcastle > Gateshead. The downside of this is that all passengers would have to change at Gateshead Interchange and use the Metro, which at peak times, I don't think would be able to cope with the increase in passenger numbers. The withdrawal of the Monkseaton to Pelaw peak services doesn't help with this. There's also the question of whether Metro would allow ticket acceptance, given that every time they need it from bus operators, the receipt book comes out...

Unless TNE, Newcastle City Council and the operators can come up with a sensible diversionary route with bus priority, then I think the nuclear option is probably the only way forward.

Ticket acceptance wouldn't be a major problem, only Stagecoach offer a single operator ticket now, Arriva & Go North East have replaced theirs with TNE products (so fares have actually increased, but valid on everything, so only poor value if you only need one bus operator. For everything on Stagecoach it's £5.50, which is expensive for one company.

Usually people will have TNE passes, which puts Newcastle and Gateshead in the same zone (unlike GNE having Newcastle and North Tyneside separate to Gateshead). So it should now work to at least terminate most buses at Gateshead with limited buses and the Metro going over the river.

Terminating everything at Gateshead would be a very lazy option and a sign that theyve given up

(13 Dec 2023, 11:34 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote Ticket acceptance wouldn't be a major problem, only Stagecoach offer a single operator ticket now, Arriva & Go North East have replaced theirs with TNE products (so fares have actually increased, but valid on everything, so only poor value if you only need one bus operator. For everything on Stagecoach it's £5.50, which is expensive for one company.

Usually people will have TNE passes, which puts Newcastle and Gateshead in the same zone (unlike GNE having Newcastle and North Tyneside separate to Gateshead). So it should now work to at least terminate most buses at Gateshead with limited buses and the Metro going over the river.

I've bought a GNE bus only Gateshead day ticket today so that's not strictly true

I don't necessarily think the onus here is on Go North East to provide the solution.

They've got the expertise but traffic management and flow and the like should be being managed by the Councils and plans in place to support transport (not just a lazy park and ride)

(13 Dec 2023, 11:34 am)OrangeArrow49 wrote Ticket acceptance wouldn't be a major problem, only Stagecoach offer a single operator ticket now, Arriva & Go North East have replaced theirs with TNE products (so fares have actually increased, but valid on everything, so only poor value if you only need one bus operator. For everything on Stagecoach it's £5.50, which is expensive for one company.

Usually people will have TNE passes, which puts Newcastle and Gateshead in the same zone (unlike GNE having Newcastle and North Tyneside separate to Gateshead). So it should now work to at least terminate most buses at Gateshead with limited buses and the Metro going over the river.

It comes down to £££ though. The TNE products are only day tickets, whereas the vast majority of commuting and student traffic will be (I'd guess!) via commercial products, otherwise they'd already be on the quicker and more convenient Metro.

(13 Dec 2023, 11:48 am)Unber43 wrote Terminating everything at Gateshead would be a very lazy option and a sign that theyve given up

I completely disagree with that. It'd be the sensible option, if the only other alternative is to do nothing.

(13 Dec 2023, 12:25 pm)Ambassador wrote I don't necessarily think the onus here is on Go North East to provide the solution.

They've got the expertise but traffic management and flow and the like should be being managed by the Councils and plans in place to support transport (not just a lazy park and ride)

100% agree, but it has to be a partnership approach. Even if that is the operators simply agreeing to do what is best for both traffic flow and the travelling public, rather insisting they do as they please. 

This should almost be seen as a test to the Councils (and Transport North East), who have a burning desire to manage the buses, going forward.

(13 Dec 2023, 11:13 am)Adrian wrote I agree. I think as a company, they do a lot of nonsense stuff, but this isn't one of them. It's something that provides real value to communities, for the reasons you mention in your post.

Furthermore, it's likely to be ran by managers or volunteers, who otherwise wouldn't be on the road. 


See, I don't think they can develop a plan solely. They've two options available IMO; the 'do nothing' approach or the nuclear option.

The 'do nothing' approach would be to continue to run as is, then regulate (or not, as the case usually is nowadays) buses that are running considerably late. The impact of this is that there's no real timetable for buses in/out of Newcastle and journey times are considerably increased. The benefit is that customers can continue to get a bus to/from Newcastle, if they're willing to persevere for long enough.

The nuclear option is to terminate everything at Gateshead Interchange. The benefit is that everything should run on time, and if it doesn't, it'll almost certainly start the trip away from Gateshead on time. Your average X1 trip, you're saving 28 minutes by not doing Gateshead > Newcastle > Gateshead. The downside of this is that all passengers would have to change at Gateshead Interchange and use the Metro, which at peak times, I don't think would be able to cope with the increase in passenger numbers. The withdrawal of the Monkseaton to Pelaw peak services doesn't help with this. There's also the question of whether Metro would allow ticket acceptance, given that every time they need it from bus operators, the receipt book comes out...

Unless TNE, Newcastle City Council and the operators can come up with a sensible diversionary route with bus priority, then I think the nuclear option is probably the only way forward.

If we're going on the X1, there's a debate whether it should exist at all. If you're removing the Gateshead to Newcastle link, then surely it would be better to send the express bus towards Heworth and change there - there's a bus lane pretty much the whole journey there and save the resources of buses travelling non stop through Wrekenton etc. Combined with the existing 4, you'd have a very frequent service between Washington and Heworth of at least every 10 minutes.

The same argument could be made for the 27 and 57 aswell but you'd need proper integration for that and a much improved interchange at Heworth rather than a few bus stops outside in the cold.

Change that stupid bus link thing after Gateshead, have it as like a slip road, turn one way of the Tyne Bridge into a bus lane, and make the redheugh one lane either side bus lanes, then have a bus lane heading towards Eldon Square

(13 Dec 2023, 1:59 pm)Unber43 wrote Change that stupid bus link thing after Gateshead, have it as like a slip road, turn one way of the Tyne Bridge into a bus lane, and make the redheugh one lane either side bus lanes, then have a bus lane heading towards Eldon Square

Putting a bus lane on the Redheugh Bridge and Tyne Bridge would make the delays worse as the traffic would be backing up into Teams / Low Fell / Gateshead / Felling Bypass / Bensham.

Bus lanes aren't the answer and quite often make things worse than they ever were, unless it's done by adding an additional lane.

(13 Dec 2023, 1:42 pm)Storx wrote If we're going on the X1, there's a debate whether it should exist at all. If you're removing the Gateshead to Newcastle link, then surely it would be better to send the express bus towards Heworth and change there - there's a bus lane pretty much the whole journey there and save the resources of buses travelling non stop through Wrekenton etc. Combined with the existing 4, you'd have a very frequent service between Washington and Heworth of at least every 10 minutes.

The same argument could be made for the 27 and 57 aswell but you'd need proper integration for that and a much improved interchange at Heworth rather than a few bus stops outside in the cold.

the x1 serves wreckenton and qe hospital remember. Ive seen people let the 56 and 57 go by  knowing an x1 was behind. Also always a few getting off with me when im on a half day heading toward qe - unless they get dropped off and heworth and have to get the 93 up to qe?

(13 Dec 2023, 2:06 pm)Rob44 wrote the x1 serves wreckenton and qe hospital remember. Ive seen people let the 56 and 57 go by  knowing an x1 was behind. Also always a few getting off with me when im on a half day heading toward qe - unless they get dropped off and heworth and have to get the 93 up to qe?

Aye of course, could always just change onto the 56 at Concord though, I know it's not ideal but nothing will be. Is it better to have a 7.5 minute (roughly) to Heworth so people going to Gateshead and Newcastle (most) get a quicker and easier interchange or splitting it 15/20 for the few going to the QE and Wrekenton. I don't know, someone else would have to answer that tbh.

Always going to be a loser somewhere tbh. I'd probably say the 21, 53, 54, 56 and X21 should be the only services crossing the water from Gateshead really.

Or could Network Rail not just keep High Level Bridge open for buses and transfering trains like LNER Middlesbrough dead run, or GCT on a night.

And the Northern trains can just go in over King Edward Bridge, and reverse

---

(13 Dec 2023, 2:16 pm)Storx wrote Aye of course, could always just change onto the 56 at Concord though, I know it's not ideal but nothing will be. Is it better to have a 7.5 minute (roughly) to Heworth so people going to Gateshead and Newcastle (most) get a quicker and easier interchange or splitting it 15/20 for the few going to the QE and Wrekenton. I don't know, someone else would have to answer that tbh.

Always going to be a loser somewhere tbh. I'd probably say the 21, 53, 54, 56 and X21 should be the only services crossing the water from Gateshead really.

Or maybe all that traffic try to get it onto public transport and have loads of services including the 5152 enter Newcastle

(13 Dec 2023, 2:49 pm)Unber43 wrote Or could Network Rail not just keep High Level Bridge open for buses and transfering trains like LNER Middlesbrough dead run, or  GCT on a night.

And the Northern trains can just go in over King Edward Bridge, and reverse

---

Or maybe all that traffic try to get it onto public transport and have loads of services including the 5152 enter Newcastle

Won't make a different though you'll just make both worse. You don't make public transport better by making cars worse. If the journey you want doesn't exist then whatever you do won't make a different. Most people using the Redheugh Bridge, in particular, won't be from Gateshead they'll be from places like Langley Park or Heaton.

In an ideal world people from places like Langley Park shouldn't be in a car but they shouldn't be on a bus either as it's just too far. There is a railway line that runs through CLS which the 725 passes though.... But it has 1 train every 2 hours...

A bad night on the Coast Road with extreme delays. Thoughts go out to people caught up in the collision

(14 Dec 2023, 7:32 pm)L469 YVK wrote A bad night on the Coast Road with extreme delays. Thoughts go out to people caught up in the collision

Yes looked rather awful on the incredibly late running 22X I was on 

Stagecoach and Arriva updated socials proactively.

GNEs dismal social performance continued with no update. The app updated an hour after the event

Yeah the delays looked awful, some buses upto 50 mins late, one just ran dead from Percy Main to North Sheilds after running from Byth to try and make up time.

GNE defo need a social media presence again FB & Twitter

Yes they’re back

It’s Matchday rants!

20 minute angelic gaps have returned! The lovely people at arriva are filling the gaps with a somewhat rammed selection of x12s

Post match…..I assume the service team don’t work nights….

There was no 21 for half an hour then two turned up both Durham bound and lightly loaded

Chased each other the whole way. Utter incompetence

Nothing's actually been said to us drivers officially, but I've heard from some places that they've cut right back on the SDC staff, it does seem like it takes an age to get in touch with them at the minute, but idk if it's because there's less of them there or what.

Eldon Square was completely empty on the tarmac at regular points throughout tonight.

Resorted to walking back to MetroCentre as I got sick of waiting for something to turn up. Shambles of a service.

Looked like there was a 90 minute gap in Hexham 10s at one point.

There’s clearly a lot of short notice service cancellations they’re just plain lying about or not acknowledging

Utter contempt for a customer base they’ve already abandoned for months this year. Just tell us the truth so we can make alternative plans

(17 Dec 2023, 1:04 am)Ambassador wrote There’s clearly a lot of short notice service cancellations they’re just plain lying about or not acknowledging

Utter contempt for a customer base they’ve already abandoned for months this year. Just tell us the truth so we can make alternative plans

I'd hope all this missing mileage is being reported to the powers that be such as Dft or at Harehills, because for all the contempt they're showing to the public, I'd hate for any fraud or deceit to be happening at a higher level.

Is the short term cancellations even on the website anymore?

In fairness, there's not a lot of notice they can give the public if a bus is regulated, as it tends to be very short notice for the driver. They probably only make the decision about half an hour before it actually happens, if that.

In Germany for layovers they use the 8/2 rule (8 mins of driving time = 2 mins layover) ofc there are limits such as a dead 2 hour route isn't going to get like 20 mins layover either side, but i think this would be a good idea

(17 Dec 2023, 11:52 am)F114TML wrote In fairness, there's not a lot of notice they can give the public if a bus is regulated, as it tends to be very short notice for the driver. They probably only make the decision about half an hour before it actually happens, if that.

Nowt a bit of inexpensive PowerBI/automation couldn't fix within seconds.
Very little human intervention needs.

So many missing boards today.